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Metagame Workshop
- Thread starter Uselesscrab
- Start date
- Status
Yes
Anytime an ability would effect how a pokemon, move, or the field acts, it is considered activated. Passive abilities like technician for example would be considered activated when you use a 60 or lower base power move... and i might lower it to 1/4 health loss
Neat idea. Gets rid of a lot of immunities too.
How would Huge/Pure Power, Guts and Hustle work? They don't necessarily activate, since they're kinda *always* in effect (attack is always boosted), regardless of moves chosen and such. If they faint, would they faint instantly? Or if 1/4, would they lose 1/4 every turn?
And if 1/4, how would Levitate work? Would they lose 1/4 both upon Ground move being used AND switching if there's Spikes/Web?
It should be they lose 1/4 on the switch still allowing certain pokemon to still be powerful such as mega metacham can still deal some major damage with fake out and bullet punch if it gets in I think maybe rest would be helpful for things that cant heal how ever I could see a problem with certain pokemon being exceptionally powerful such as slowbro which heals that 1/4 damage right up also stall sounds like it would have fun
alephgalactus
Banned deucer.
Innards Out and Aftermath seem really good in that meta, because they only activate after the bearer faints.
Yes to all of those answers, except for Guts. Guts only activates when the user is statused, and if you are thinking of Thick Fat, it activates when hit with fire or ice attacks
That is indeed true, i expect anticipation might be popular if switching in on something that can not hit the user super effectively
Stunfisk gets limber, fun
If i decide to change it to 1/4 health loss, Diggersby cheek pouch sounds fun
Edit: scratch out fun, this might need to be banned
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[hide]text[/hide]Thank you and i am very sorry
Abilities
abilities that have been buffed
Cheek Pouch is now terrifying, almost completely negating the 1/4 health loss (yes i am now changing it to that instead of insta fainting) and if the berry is a healing berry, they still gain health! Granted it is not very much but it is still health.
Cursed Body, Cute Charm etc. All get boosts because on the off chance the ability activates, the opponent gets hindered!
Liquid Ooze is rare, but very good. In standard play it is not used much, especially since the pokemon that get it already resist most healing moves, but in this meta there is nothing to lose! After all, it only activates when the opponent tries to heal damage via you... and they will take that damage instead! Very good
Mummy is annoying, so, so annoying, sure it gets rid of abilities when you get hit by it... but MUMMY!!! Okay, let me paint you a picture, Mummy activates whenever a pokemon makes contact with it, so not only do contact moves leave you hurt even worse, but now the enemy loses their ability and can just switch out! So why did i even mention it here? Easy. Coffagrigus gets this... and it gets stuff like memento, mean look and skill swap. Fun
Stakeout has a huge upside in doing a ton of damage to any pokemon switching in, losing health is a small price for this amazing ability
Cheek Pouch is now terrifying, almost completely negating the 1/4 health loss (yes i am now changing it to that instead of insta fainting) and if the berry is a healing berry, they still gain health! Granted it is not very much but it is still health.
Cursed Body, Cute Charm etc. All get boosts because on the off chance the ability activates, the opponent gets hindered!
Liquid Ooze is rare, but very good. In standard play it is not used much, especially since the pokemon that get it already resist most healing moves, but in this meta there is nothing to lose! After all, it only activates when the opponent tries to heal damage via you... and they will take that damage instead! Very good
Mummy is annoying, so, so annoying, sure it gets rid of abilities when you get hit by it... but MUMMY!!! Okay, let me paint you a picture, Mummy activates whenever a pokemon makes contact with it, so not only do contact moves leave you hurt even worse, but now the enemy loses their ability and can just switch out! So why did i even mention it here? Easy. Coffagrigus gets this... and it gets stuff like memento, mean look and skill swap. Fun
Stakeout has a huge upside in doing a ton of damage to any pokemon switching in, losing health is a small price for this amazing ability
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Damp vs. Aftermath is a non-issue: instead of losing 25% health due to Aftermath, you could...have your ability pop up instead, and lose 25% from your ability popping up anyway!
I am an idiot
Coffagrigus
*Mummy
~Leftovers
-Shadow Ball
-Skill Swap/Taunt
-Mean Look
-Destiny Bond
Really mean set for Do Not Activate, abuse Mummy and lock in opponents!
pazza
Banned deucer.
Type Infusion
All Pokemon's moves gain a secondary typing, based on the move that follows it, a bit like how Flying Press is both Fighting and Flying.
Garchomp
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw
- Stone Edge
- Poison Jab
In this scenario:
Earthquake becomes both Ground and Dragon.
Dragon Claw becomes both Dragon and Rock
Stone Edge becomes both Rock and Poison
Poison Jab becomes both Poison and Ground
Immunities apply as usual, so a Steel type would be immune to Stone Edge from this Garchomp.
STAB still works at 1.5x power. In this instance, Earthquake would just gain 1.5x power from STAB, not 2x even if both Garchomp shares both types of the move.
Protean would change your type into the original type of the move, regardless of the secondary one.
Threats/Bans: not sure yet. I'll see if I can work on a type chart to visualise how those double type attacks would work.
Questions: Is it too complicated? Is there a risk that battles turn into a confusing cluster***k? Should the gimmick be limited to just the first move?
All Pokemon's moves gain a secondary typing, based on the move that follows it, a bit like how Flying Press is both Fighting and Flying.
Garchomp
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw
- Stone Edge
- Poison Jab
In this scenario:
Earthquake becomes both Ground and Dragon.
Dragon Claw becomes both Dragon and Rock
Stone Edge becomes both Rock and Poison
Poison Jab becomes both Poison and Ground
Immunities apply as usual, so a Steel type would be immune to Stone Edge from this Garchomp.
STAB still works at 1.5x power. In this instance, Earthquake would just gain 1.5x power from STAB, not 2x even if both Garchomp shares both types of the move.
Protean would change your type into the original type of the move, regardless of the secondary one.
Threats/Bans: not sure yet. I'll see if I can work on a type chart to visualise how those double type attacks would work.
Questions: Is it too complicated? Is there a risk that battles turn into a confusing cluster***k? Should the gimmick be limited to just the first move?
So for Z moves, I'm assuming they'd remain sinlge typed and based in power and type off the first move, correct?
Would still also apply to status moves? In other words, would a set with Close Combat in slot 1 and Taunt in slot 2 be Fighting/Dark, or would it just be Fighting type? Or an inverse, would a set with Will-O-Wisp in slot 1 and Toxic in slot 2 be unable to burn Steel types with Will-O-Wisp due to their immunity to Poison?
Yeah, Z-moves would work as usual, so single typed, based on the first type only. Seems like the simplest.
And yes, I'd make it apply to Status Moves as well. Immunities would work as usual so a Will-O-Wisp as a Fire/Poison wouldn't work against Steel.
Seems like Immunities would be crucial in this meta, since coverage would always be mitigated by the secondary type.
If Nihilego has Power Gem followed by Stealth Rock, would you apply the multipliers for Rock type twice?
Does Flying Press itself get to have 3 types, or does the type of the move after it clobber the place of Flying?
If a Liquid Voice Primarina has Hyper Voice followed by Disarming Voice for some reason, does the move count as Water/Fairy or just Water/Water (subject to point #1)?
Similar to how Coba Berry does not trigger if you're weak to Flying Press, presumably type-based interactions like Lightning Rod or Sap Sipper don't actually get to happen if they only find a match on the secondary type?
Does Flying Press itself get to have 3 types, or does the type of the move after it clobber the place of Flying?
If a Liquid Voice Primarina has Hyper Voice followed by Disarming Voice for some reason, does the move count as Water/Fairy or just Water/Water (subject to point #1)?
Similar to how Coba Berry does not trigger if you're weak to Flying Press, presumably type-based interactions like Lightning Rod or Sap Sipper don't actually get to happen if they only find a match on the secondary type?
Rock/Rock would just become Rock. No double bonus.
Now that you mention it, I'm unsure about what to do with Flying Press... Ban it, maybe? Or as you mention, have it work as a Fighting Type, and forgo the Flying type bonus altogether? Not sure.
I think that Liquid Voice should override all types, just like Normalize. Any move that applies just become monotype. -ate abilities would just affect the Normal-type portion of a move, and conserve the secondary type. Mega-Pinsir with Return followed by Earthquake would make Return become Flying/Ground.
And the thing with Coba Berry, is that Flying Press is not technically a Flying type move, so it's normal that it doesn't work. It's a Fighting move, with a secondary effect of also applying Flying type. The way I see it, this meta would fully tag on a secondary type to a move. So things like Berries and abilities like Storm Drain, Volt Absorb or Sap Sipper would apply to anything that has that primary or secondary type.
Now that you mention it, I'm unsure about what to do with Flying Press... Ban it, maybe? Or as you mention, have it work as a Fighting Type, and forgo the Flying type bonus altogether? Not sure.
I think that Liquid Voice should override all types, just like Normalize. Any move that applies just become monotype. -ate abilities would just affect the Normal-type portion of a move, and conserve the secondary type. Mega-Pinsir with Return followed by Earthquake would make Return become Flying/Ground.
And the thing with Coba Berry, is that Flying Press is not technically a Flying type move, so it's normal that it doesn't work. It's a Fighting move, with a secondary effect of also applying Flying type. The way I see it, this meta would fully tag on a secondary type to a move. So things like Berries and abilities like Storm Drain, Volt Absorb or Sap Sipper would apply to anything that has that primary or secondary type.
I think that if there is another type on the move below Flying Press, other than Flying, it should replace the Flying-type effectiveness.
I haven't done a deep analysis, but based on flying press, I dont think combined moves actually have the best coverage. Im sure there is an optimal combination (like fire-freezedry or something) that the meta would converge to.
Another problem is that there is very little indication given to the opponent what they'll be hit by. Neutral damage, the meta, isn't very interesting. Perhaps everything gets flying press, and instead of being flying-fighting, the move is made to do damage of the Pokemon's primary and secondary types if present.
And just for fun, a naming scheme:
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Most types have more resists than super-effectiveness. The exceptions are:
- Flying (3 resists, 3 super-effective)
- Ground (1 immunity, 2, resists, 5 super-effective)
- Rock (3 resists, 4 super-effective)
- Fire (4 resists, 4 super-effective)
- Water (3 resists, 3 super-effective)
- Ice (4 resists, 4 super-effective) except Freeze-Dry (3 resists, 5 super-effective)
- Fairy (3 resists, 3 super-effective)
Freeze-Dry + Ground would be useless against Flying, resisted by Bug and Ice, and super-effective against Poison, Ground, Rock, Water, Electric and Dragon.
But Freeze-Dry is only available to some Ice types and Smeargle anyway.
Ground + Rock would be useless against Flying, resisted by Fighting, Ground and Grass, super-effective against Poison, Rock, Electric and Ice, and doubly effective against Fire.
Ground + Fairy would be useless against Flying, resisted by Bug and Grass, and super-effective against Fighting, Rock, Electric, Dragon and Dark.
Ground + Flying would be useless against Flying and super-effective against Fighting, Poison and Fire.
Also FYI this meta wouldn't be very easy to code; Flying Press only works because Flying has no immunities.
In order not to make moves with many immunitis a burden you can leave fourth move its original type and not mix it with your fist one. That way, you can place electric type attacks first and dont worry about ground types or volt absorb users beaing immune to 3 of your moves.
Also you can give stab bonus only to the primary type so your pokemon dont get 4 stab moves with different typings (ie, a protean like boost). For example your Garchomp gets only erthquake and dragon claw as stabs, and not poison jab. This also helps to prevent some pokemon from gaining a powerfull unfair stab (steel on kartana, ice on kyu-b, fairy on tapu koko and bulu, flying on lando, etc.)
Some threats:
Greninja: both forms are scary. U turn mixed with ice beam can be used to punish grass types switch in with a x4 effective attack. Extrasensory, ice beam and spikes can be placed in specific slots to counter many targets. Water shuriken can demolish tapu koko if it is grounded and destroy dragons if it is iced. Dark pulse and extrasensory can be mixed obtaining a stab move that breaks venusaur and toxapez, and also hits keldeo neutrally. If you are worried about dark types coming your way, mix hydro pump with u-turn.
Kyurem-b: if secondary ice type gives stab, then it is really powerfull, however its common moves have immunities. Fusion blow, outrage, earth power. Its ability helps to prevent abilities like volt absorb or levitate, though.
Dragonite: extreme speed is really cool with a secondary typing, it can be ice, fire, flying, ground, fighting, electric. Banded outrage can surprise steel types if it is mixed with earthquake or fire blast. Outrage with less resistances and more immunities is better because less pokemon can trap dnite by switching in outrage. This can also be exploited by kyu-b.
Pelliper: if rain boosts secondary type water moves, then those hurricanes will hurt. His flying type also helps against opposing swamperts in a mirror matchup. You can also pivot into aquaranid whose moves will benefit from both water bubble and rain if water is secondary type.
Zygarde: after using tarrows once, the ground typing it offers as secondary type ignores flying types, which is nice combined with outrage or iron tail.
Talonflame: if galed wings gives priority to secondary type flying moves, then ...
One question: how do normal-altering effects (aerialite, hidden power, multiattack) work on normal type secondary moves? I suggest leaving them as normal moves to make room for predictions on what your opponents sets are (hidden power ice could enhance physical attacks if it worked as a secondary ice move)
This is a random idea I had
Potential bans: Anger Point, Regenerator, Beast Boost, Innards Out, Slaking
and threats: Oh boy there's a ton. Infinite Weather/Terrain resetting, Infinite stat boosting with Beast Boost (Probably getting a ban) and stuff like Sap Sipper, Infinite Regenerator, Infinite everything basically.
Questions for the community: How should I handle this metagame if it were real? What kind of broken crap did I miss out on?
Infibility
Metagame premise: At the end of each turn, each Pokemon's abilities activate. Abilities that provide a static affect like Mold Breaker, Magic Guard, Huge Power, Swift Swim, and those reliant on a move the opponent made like Dancer and Liquid Ooze are unaffected.Potential bans: Anger Point, Regenerator, Beast Boost, Innards Out, Slaking
and threats: Oh boy there's a ton. Infinite Weather/Terrain resetting, Infinite stat boosting with Beast Boost (Probably getting a ban) and stuff like Sap Sipper, Infinite Regenerator, Infinite everything basically.
Questions for the community: How should I handle this metagame if it were real? What kind of broken crap did I miss out on?
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This really only affects abilities that activate when you come in or if an effect is on you (i.e. Synchronize, Beast Boost). The truly broken thing is Mimikyu though. Disguise comes back every other turn. Golisopod is actually buffed. Run First Impression every single time. Lando-T is even bulkier. Pory-Z has pretty good set-up in Download. Zoroark is gonna be interesting. Trace is buffed. Etc., Etc.
Disguise only changes Mimikyu into busted form; it doesn't ever revert it. So here Mimikyu would only have it activated once and once it activates, it's stuck in that form.
MAMP
MAMP!
the most busted things in this are kartana, magearna, regenerator/volt absorb/water absorb, and defiant/competitive as far as i can see, all of those are absolutely obscene. mummy is fun tech to shut off some of the more broken shit. static/effect spore/poison point/flame body are all really nuts too if they work the way i'm assuming they do
how does battle bond work with this? unburden? does hydration trigger outside of rain? do abilities go off according to speed order? how does this interact with abilities like speed boost and poison heal that already activate at end of turn? where do these effects fit into the end of turn resolution order?
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