Does versatility contribute to a pokemon being in the "S" rank on a VR? For example, Ash-Greninja is S-rank, despite the fact that it is restricted to a single set.
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Resource Simple Questions, Simple Answers Thread (read the op before posting a thread)
- Thread starter Celticpride
- Start date
No; though I would definitely say versatility is a good argument for a mon to be S rank, sometimes a mon simply has a set that everyone must prepare for, does prepare for, but it STILL is an extremely effective mon. Using the Ash-Gren example, its ability to lay Spikes completely changes the checks/counters since they can now be “Spike-fodder”.
Why hasn't magnet pull been considered uncompetitive, whereas arena trap has been? I understand there are a few potential responses, and probably more. Firstly, arena trap obviously affects many more Pokemon than magnet pull. However, this doesn't make magnet pull any less problematic. There are plenty of viable steel types that are hindered by Magnezone and Alolan Golem (yes, it's uncommon, but that doesn't determine how uncompetitive or broken something is; remember Lando-I). Skarmory is forced to run shed shell to not auto-lose to magnezone, as the point of trapping Skarmory is to make it easier for Pokemon like Mawile, Bulu, and Kartana to sweep. Skarmory also struggles to check Mawile and Kartana without rocky helmet, meaning you're forced to choose between the ability to switch and check the Pokemon it is suppose to check.
Of course, Skarmory isn't the only victim. Magearna is forced to run volt switch, even on heart swap sets. Even then, it has to watch out for gigavolt havoc from Magnezone, and EQ from Golem-A. The latter also can trap and OHKO Heatran with scarf EQ; and Ferrothorn and Scizor with fire punch. Magnezone can also trap Kartana with a choice scarf. The classic eject button trick also stops Magearna and Scizor from pivoting with u-turn or volt switch, giving you a free switch.
Anyway, I don't see how the situation is different enough from arena trap to consider it fair game. You can't say "just slap on a shed shell", as the same argument would apply to arena trap. Besides, steel types can be lured by the likes of Mawile and Kartana, who can knock off shed shell. Is there something else I'm missing here?
Of course, Skarmory isn't the only victim. Magearna is forced to run volt switch, even on heart swap sets. Even then, it has to watch out for gigavolt havoc from Magnezone, and EQ from Golem-A. The latter also can trap and OHKO Heatran with scarf EQ; and Ferrothorn and Scizor with fire punch. Magnezone can also trap Kartana with a choice scarf. The classic eject button trick also stops Magearna and Scizor from pivoting with u-turn or volt switch, giving you a free switch.
Anyway, I don't see how the situation is different enough from arena trap to consider it fair game. You can't say "just slap on a shed shell", as the same argument would apply to arena trap. Besides, steel types can be lured by the likes of Mawile and Kartana, who can knock off shed shell. Is there something else I'm missing here?
I'll be the ass to say this because it is never understood.
This is not the topic to ask things for suspects and the like.
PM a council member if these are the questions that keep you up at night.
I felt this needed to be stressed since it's been on the last two pages alone. I'll delete further questions on the matter (and as far as answers, you can do it in PMs).
Since this didnt cover it specifically within the original post of this thread (though it has been a global rule within the OU subforums not to post things like that), I have edited the OP to help enforce this.
This is not the topic to ask things for suspects and the like.
PM a council member if these are the questions that keep you up at night.
I felt this needed to be stressed since it's been on the last two pages alone. I'll delete further questions on the matter (and as far as answers, you can do it in PMs).
Since this didnt cover it specifically within the original post of this thread (though it has been a global rule within the OU subforums not to post things like that), I have edited the OP to help enforce this.
After WCOP probably.
LOL.
Magearna takes a pittance of Magnezone's attacks when using AV or Calm Mind (and she always uses one of those) and uses Volt Switch simply due to how damn good is the move for basically everything and outspeeds Golem, and can destroy both with Fleur Cannon, Aura Sphere or HP Ground (I have seen some use it to lure Heatran, with annoyingly effective results on my Marowak-A).
Heatran can shield himself from some crazy guy running scarf on either of those pokemon with Air Balloon or Substitute in the same way he did with Dugtrio.
Ferrothorn can stall them in rain with leech seed, Celesteela can too if he has some speed investment, or simply EQ on the switch or after tanking a non-Z-move hit.
Scizor can spam U-turn anyway by relying on his decent speed tier, or kick things up a notch and one-shot them with Superpower.
Kartana can be trapped on revenge kill if she didn't pick any speed boosts, but good luck getting that considering how much Knock Off is spammed those days.
Can't forget about Heart Swap.
The day I see either of those sets do something other than loose momentum and turns terribly and give me free wins I'll consider them as ACTUAL sets.
What has made Mega Tyranitar so good in USUM OU when back in ORAS you had absolutely no reason to use Mega Ttar over regular Ttar?
It’s not “so good” by any means... falling use of mons like chomp have helped it though, rise of Pex has played a part as well. Resistance to blacepholon also helps. Basically just look at what isn’t being used now, and the new threats/stalls in the meta game. There’s a reason DD is run on it. It wallbreaks.
Does Red Card work behind a sub?
It's probably "viable" since a lot of stuff is technically "viable" in OU but it's not something most players should run. The biggest reason to use Mega Latios in the first place is for its ability to hit would-be checks and counters (particularly Heatran but also stuff like a weakened Magearna or Tyranitar) with a very strong Earthquake. Mega Latios is good almost exclusively because it's one of the few truly phenomenal mixed attackers in the tier (it's basically limited to Protean Greninja, Mega Latios, Z-Wild Charge Koko, Mega Garchomp, Kyurem-Black, and Mega Diancie) and in general Mega Latias abuses a 3-attacks special attacking set better because the extra bulk offsets the slight loss in power and as it Toxapex wants almost nothing to do with it.
Its Stealth Rock set packs a significant amount of power while being significantly bulkier than most other Stealth Rock setters and such a niche is pretty coveted when that extra bulk comes into play far more often when more of the tier hits for so much more damage. DD is a lot more niche this generation than last but the DD sets were still enough of a niche to distinguish it from vanilla TTar back in OR/AS although it overall worse than vanilla TTar. In other words, the meta's increased power levels do vanilla TTar very few favors while they allow Mega TTar's to better flex its incredible 100/150/120 bulk before Sand.
For instance, Stealth Rock Mega TTar is only 3HKOed by Mega Latios's Earthquake; the same spread on vanilla TTar has a chance to be 2HKOed as is, and that chance goes up pretty significantly after Stealth Rock damage. That same standard spread will also avoid an OHKO from Specs Lele and hit it extremely hard in return, having a pretty high chance of OHKOing it; the only vanilla TTar set that boasts the same feat is Assault Vest and while it does that role incredibly well and forces Lele out very well it doesn't have a chance of OHKOing Lele after Sand damage and it can't function as your dedicated Rocker.
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Kommo-o: Am I a joke to you?
The strategy dex says that Amoongus can check all but select Magearna cm sets. What are these select sets? I imagine those with ice beam beat Amoonguss, but so do bolt/fleur sets; Amoonguss fails to do enough damage (with stomping tantrum) to Magearna before it boosts enough to muscle through Amoonguss. Even if you use AV, Magearna can use pain split to buy more turns to boosts with.
Does Amoonguss just fail to check any Magearna cm sets, or am I missing something? Do you recommend a different mon that can fit on stall?
Does Amoonguss just fail to check any Magearna cm sets, or am I missing something? Do you recommend a different mon that can fit on stall?
Honestly, 'Moongus is about as good of a check as any
+5 252 SpA Magearna Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 160+ SpD Assault Vest Amoonguss: 418-492 (96.7 - 113.8%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
The sets that it doesn't check are sets that utilize Pain Split to heal off excess damage. These sets can be effective against stall because they can boost up against Chansey, Pain Split to heal, and then rip through the rest of the team with some combination of Fleur Cannon, Flash Cannon, Tbolt, and Ice Beam. The only mons that Stall regularly employs that have a chance against mage are Quagsire (loses to Fleur), Clefable (needs to predict the TT), and Aggron, who can beat pretty much any common Magearna set since Fight-Z isn't super common. Paired with Chansey and Clefable, it's a good check to a lot of stuff that Stall can struggle with like Lele, Kart, or Reuniclus (since it can phase).
Excuse my frequency here, but I'm having a lot of trouble on the ladder lately. Any idea on how to punish or stop volt-turn? I've had the most trouble with Tornadus, which can recover damage from rocky helmet, iron barbs, and rough skin just by using the move you're trying to punish, thanks to regenerator. It's also difficult to status before it u-turns, thanks to its blistering speed. Of course, there are other problematic pivots, but Tornadus stands out as much harder to deal with.
Static Zapdos seems like it would be a good way of statusing Torn.
So I’m assuming this is a stall team again (just noticing you use a lot of stall), and I don’t think anything manages Torn-T well that can stop its U-turn. I have three ideas, though. Aggron takes on all Torn variants and sets Rocks, but cannot eat AOPs and is too slow to not punish a U-turn. Next is Zapdos. Easily takes attacks but doesnt like Knock Off, and again, is too slow to pressure what Torn pivots out of (which will be some sort of moderately fast breaker, like Medi/Lele). You can run Static, but Pressure is far for all stalls. Finally, the third and most unorthodox option is Weavile. Weavile is faster, has Icicle Crash, and traps it with Pursuit, but it can’t switch in. I would mention Ttar here as well, but its too slow and get U-turned on.
Flame body of Volcarona is useful to punish u-turn too.
Like others say, if you win the hazards war, then volt-turn will not be a problem.
I want add a personal option that I use in my stall team against Volt-switch of Rotom or Magearna: Mirror Coat Alomomola.
You can see what I think about this pokemon against a volt-turn core in this post: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...atias-ferrothorn.3629600/page-28#post-8023823
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7ou-444450
Turn 31: Is there anything else Hayburner could have done or am I missing something?
Turn 31: Is there anything else Hayburner could have done or am I missing something?
Attacking into torn literally lost because pex just hazed away his boosts, he needed +3 to be able to beat pex, so SD on dodge was by far his best play in that situation
If Hayburner was going for a Hail Mary, then wouldn't the best option be to Sub as it would give them two chances of getting a miss instead of one?