This team is how I topped #3 during the regenerator ban era. It's quite potent. Dry skin, Rain Dish, Drizzle, Hydration, Fur Coat, Ice Scales at the time.
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Metagame Shared Power
- Thread starter The Immortal
- Start date
Can we please get an unban on flare boost?
There are so few special attackers that can abuse this well (Sort by Att vs SpaAtt and see the amount of 100+ base stats, as well as the viability ranks/movesets/abilities they offer) and it forces you to run Drifbloom, one of the weakest mons in the meta.
Additionally, unlike guts it requires a burn specifically, which means fire types won't benefit and any form of opposing status (Like t spikes) will stop it reliably instead of benefitting them.
Icy scales, which is a stall staple, also invalidates it further, unlike fluffy which is flawed. There's also hardly any additional boosting available to special attackers. Boosters like adaptability, sheer force etc belong to physical attackers, ruining team synergy if they're used. It doesn't have multi-attack options to break sturdy/sash users or viable crit moves or wide spread utility moves similar to knock off or darkest lariat. Overall it is far less viable than the guts alternative and offers less synergy.
Ban quick feet if necessary, as the combo with speed boosting is kind of busted versus offence. But special attackers are already under-represented and of all the banned abilities, this is the most ridiculous one.
There are so few special attackers that can abuse this well (Sort by Att vs SpaAtt and see the amount of 100+ base stats, as well as the viability ranks/movesets/abilities they offer) and it forces you to run Drifbloom, one of the weakest mons in the meta.
Additionally, unlike guts it requires a burn specifically, which means fire types won't benefit and any form of opposing status (Like t spikes) will stop it reliably instead of benefitting them.
Icy scales, which is a stall staple, also invalidates it further, unlike fluffy which is flawed. There's also hardly any additional boosting available to special attackers. Boosters like adaptability, sheer force etc belong to physical attackers, ruining team synergy if they're used. It doesn't have multi-attack options to break sturdy/sash users or viable crit moves or wide spread utility moves similar to knock off or darkest lariat. Overall it is far less viable than the guts alternative and offers less synergy.
Ban quick feet if necessary, as the combo with speed boosting is kind of busted versus offence. But special attackers are already under-represented and of all the banned abilities, this is the most ridiculous one.
This is how stamina is manageable ?
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8sharedpower-1102397944
Is absolutely ridiculous you can get free recovery + immunity...
"tHis MetA is OfFeNsIve" A lig big like a montain.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8sharedpower-1102397944
Is absolutely ridiculous you can get free recovery + immunity...
"tHis MetA is OfFeNsIve" A lig big like a montain.
Are... are you OK? Do you need medical attention?
As for your actual argument, it’s not hard to deal with Stamina. You could have actually won that battle if you hadn’t switched out Dragapult on turn 20 and just clicked Dragon Darts again. Assuming you had 252 Attack and a neutral Nature and the Ferrothorn had full physically defensive investment, that Ferrothorn took more than 37% at a minimum even after the Stamina boost from the first Dragon Dart. I actually think it was a bad play for the Ferrothorn user to stay in that turn, and they were fortunate that you made a much worse play by switching into Mr. Mime.
Hello I just wanted to disagree with your points on team synergy and boosting. I personally don't think too much about flare, I do think you make a great point about Drifbloom.
That said, I think special types have the most busted boosting as opposed to what you said. Yes, special attackers are heavily under represented but that has nothing to do with lack of boosting or team synergy. There are way less special abusers but that is intrinsically how this gen was given to us so nothing can be done there. We unfortunately only have a handful of special mons to play with in any meta. However, the access to Nasty Plot is widespread, basically every viable mon gets it.
You are saying that having to run a physical attacker for the ability on your special mon ruins team synergy, but I strongly disagree. I think that's exactly what defines synergy. Here are some examples:
Crawdaunt + Togekiss
Hydreigon + Steelix
Darmanitan + Gengar
Roserade + Cloyster
Togekiss + Drapion
Golurk + Rotom
Any of these easily fit on any team and sacrifice zero synergy.
That's not even touching on Polteageist, which can make a team of 5 physicals and 1 tea really scary.
Again, I am not disagreeing at all with your original ban argument, but rather I hope to help it by being more concise and demonstrating that there are only a handful of viable special mons to begin with; and that the ban further restrained them. I think that is a much better argument to make, Flare does open up a lot of special attackers when they had their hands tied to begin with.
Shared Power Weather Report with Clefable
Grab your Utility Umbrellas and buckle in for today's forecast.
Rain
The combo of Swift Swim + Drizzle is banned, but that's not going to stop us from splashing as hard as we can. We looked at Drizzle stall when Pex was legal (it still works fine with Mareanie!), so let's see how Swift Swim HO fares.
A triple water core of Barraskewda, Crawdaunt, and Dracovish wallbreaks while complementing each other abilitywise. Liepard's Prankster lets us reliably set rain, and Jirachi's Serene Grace irritates our ladder opponents with Waterfall flinches (and Dark Pulse, and Bite). Tsareena in the back ensures that our 742 speed Skewda doesn't get Mach Punched to death.
How does this team do versus the metagame? In a word, terribly. Dry Skin instantly ends our fun, and Grass types are a huge Ferrothorn in our side. The biggest problem, though, is that this team doesn't have the tools to deal with pretty much any of the tier's anti-HO measures -- Sturdy, Weak Armor, Stamina, Def boosting, you name it and it probably beats the team. Basically the only thing Rain has going for it is that it doesn't lose to Dragapult.
Rating: ★☆☆☆☆
Sun
Now we're cooking with fire. Unlike monowater Rain sweepers, Sun sweepers come in Grass and Fire type and can hit hard on both the physical and special side. One way to build sun would use Torkoal + Charizard for that sweet Solar Power. I went the other direction with Venusaur.
Venusaur is the fastest flowersaurus in town, and with help from Darmanitan's Sheer Force it can dismantle stall by itself with Fire/Poison/Ground coverage and immunity to Toxic. Roserade functions as Venusaur 2.0 but stronger and faster. Dragapult benefits from Roserade's Technician and Darm's Sheer Force to boost all its moves, and Dragon Darts helps solve the team's Sturdy problem. Liepard and Tsareena were ripped directly from the Rain squad and help us get 8 turns of Vitamin D.
This team gets the Clefable stamp of approval. It's got a ton of threats and ways to deal with all playstyles. The one gigantic weakness this team has is to Flash Fire + Steels -- click x if you see a Chandelure and a Corviknight. Sturdy + Weak Armor is also a toughie to face, especially those Endure Polteageists.
Rating: ★★★★☆
Sand
Sand dropped off hard after the Sand Rush ban, but Sand Stream + Sand Force is still a potent combination. Tyranitar and Excadrill are both OU pokemon, so I tried my hand at building Tour Player Approved™ sand balance in Shared Power.
Godzilla and the mole is a tried and true core, giving sand, rocks, and spin. I went with Scarf Excadrill for speed control. Hydreigon is an underrated breaker with nice synergies, since Sand Force buffs Flash Cannon and Earth Power and Levitate is very appreciated by TTar and Exca. Ferrothorn + Arcanine gives you a Flash Fire Steel to deal with Dragapult and friends. Sylveon rounds the team out with a Fighting resist and lets Arcanine pick off weakened HO mons with Pixilate Extreme Speed.
I was very pleasantly surprised at how well this balance team works in a tier full of cheesy setup and roided up breakers. Sand chip damage is useful for picking apart flimsy Sturdy teams, and Hydreigon with Wish support pressures stall. Tyranitar counters some classic balance breakers like Reuni and Chandelure. I'm sure some kind of Skill Link offense with Queenly Majesty support could beat this, but I didn't run into it in my testing, so sand balance gets a perfect 5/5 score!
Rating: ★★★★★
I was so inspired by sand that I built an HO version of the team with Sturdy + Weak Armor + Endure sweepers. I think Weak Armor HO is potentially the scariest team around right now. With Sand Force, you're immune to the sand chip that plagues other Sturdy teams, giving you a huge edge in the mirror matchup.
Hail
Sorry, snow fans, I didn't get around to building with Hail just yet! Stay tuned for more, or build it yourself!
Grab your Utility Umbrellas and buckle in for today's forecast.
Rain
The combo of Swift Swim + Drizzle is banned, but that's not going to stop us from splashing as hard as we can. We looked at Drizzle stall when Pex was legal (it still works fine with Mareanie!), so let's see how Swift Swim HO fares.
A triple water core of Barraskewda, Crawdaunt, and Dracovish wallbreaks while complementing each other abilitywise. Liepard's Prankster lets us reliably set rain, and Jirachi's Serene Grace irritates our ladder opponents with Waterfall flinches (and Dark Pulse, and Bite). Tsareena in the back ensures that our 742 speed Skewda doesn't get Mach Punched to death.
How does this team do versus the metagame? In a word, terribly. Dry Skin instantly ends our fun, and Grass types are a huge Ferrothorn in our side. The biggest problem, though, is that this team doesn't have the tools to deal with pretty much any of the tier's anti-HO measures -- Sturdy, Weak Armor, Stamina, Def boosting, you name it and it probably beats the team. Basically the only thing Rain has going for it is that it doesn't lose to Dragapult.
Rating: ★☆☆☆☆
Sun
Now we're cooking with fire. Unlike monowater Rain sweepers, Sun sweepers come in Grass and Fire type and can hit hard on both the physical and special side. One way to build sun would use Torkoal + Charizard for that sweet Solar Power. I went the other direction with Venusaur.
Venusaur is the fastest flowersaurus in town, and with help from Darmanitan's Sheer Force it can dismantle stall by itself with Fire/Poison/Ground coverage and immunity to Toxic. Roserade functions as Venusaur 2.0 but stronger and faster. Dragapult benefits from Roserade's Technician and Darm's Sheer Force to boost all its moves, and Dragon Darts helps solve the team's Sturdy problem. Liepard and Tsareena were ripped directly from the Rain squad and help us get 8 turns of Vitamin D.
This team gets the Clefable stamp of approval. It's got a ton of threats and ways to deal with all playstyles. The one gigantic weakness this team has is to Flash Fire + Steels -- click x if you see a Chandelure and a Corviknight. Sturdy + Weak Armor is also a toughie to face, especially those Endure Polteageists.
Rating: ★★★★☆
Sand
Sand dropped off hard after the Sand Rush ban, but Sand Stream + Sand Force is still a potent combination. Tyranitar and Excadrill are both OU pokemon, so I tried my hand at building Tour Player Approved™ sand balance in Shared Power.
Godzilla and the mole is a tried and true core, giving sand, rocks, and spin. I went with Scarf Excadrill for speed control. Hydreigon is an underrated breaker with nice synergies, since Sand Force buffs Flash Cannon and Earth Power and Levitate is very appreciated by TTar and Exca. Ferrothorn + Arcanine gives you a Flash Fire Steel to deal with Dragapult and friends. Sylveon rounds the team out with a Fighting resist and lets Arcanine pick off weakened HO mons with Pixilate Extreme Speed.
I was very pleasantly surprised at how well this balance team works in a tier full of cheesy setup and roided up breakers. Sand chip damage is useful for picking apart flimsy Sturdy teams, and Hydreigon with Wish support pressures stall. Tyranitar counters some classic balance breakers like Reuni and Chandelure. I'm sure some kind of Skill Link offense with Queenly Majesty support could beat this, but I didn't run into it in my testing, so sand balance gets a perfect 5/5 score!
Rating: ★★★★★
I was so inspired by sand that I built an HO version of the team with Sturdy + Weak Armor + Endure sweepers. I think Weak Armor HO is potentially the scariest team around right now. With Sand Force, you're immune to the sand chip that plagues other Sturdy teams, giving you a huge edge in the mirror matchup.
Hail
Sorry, snow fans, I didn't get around to building with Hail just yet! Stay tuned for more, or build it yourself!
I kinda like these, be sure to keep em coming.Shared Power Weather Report with Clefable
Grab your Utility Umbrellas and buckle in for today's forecast.
Rain
The combo of Swift Swim + Drizzle is banned, but that's not going to stop us from splashing as hard as we can. We looked at Drizzle stall when Pex was legal (it still works fine with Mareanie!), so let's see how Swift Swim HO fares.
A triple water core of Barraskewda, Crawdaunt, and Dracovish wallbreaks while complementing each other abilitywise. Liepard's Prankster lets us reliably set rain, and Jirachi's Serene Grace irritates our ladder opponents with Waterfall flinches (and Dark Pulse, and Bite). Tsareena in the back ensures that our 742 speed Skewda doesn't get Mach Punched to death.
How does this team do versus the metagame? In a word, terribly. Dry Skin instantly ends our fun, and Grass types are a huge Ferrothorn in our side. The biggest problem, though, is that this team doesn't have the tools to deal with pretty much any of the tier's anti-HO measures -- Sturdy, Weak Armor, Stamina, Def boosting, you name it and it probably beats the team. Basically the only thing Rain has going for it is that it doesn't lose to Dragapult.
Rating: ★☆☆☆☆
Sun
Now we're cooking with fire. Unlike monowater Rain sweepers, Sun sweepers come in Grass and Fire type and can hit hard on both the physical and special side. One way to build sun would use Torkoal + Charizard for that sweet Solar Power. I went the other direction with Venusaur.
Venusaur is the fastest flowersaurus in town, and with help from Darmanitan's Sheer Force it can dismantle stall by itself with Fire/Poison/Ground coverage and immunity to Toxic. Roserade functions as Venusaur 2.0 but stronger and faster. Dragapult benefits from Roserade's Technician and Darm's Sheer Force to boost all its moves, and Dragon Darts helps solve the team's Sturdy problem. Liepard and Tsareena were ripped directly from the Rain squad and help us get 8 turns of Vitamin D.
This team gets the Clefable stamp of approval. It's got a ton of threats and ways to deal with all playstyles. The one gigantic weakness this team has is to Flash Fire + Steels -- click x if you see a Chandelure and a Corviknight. Sturdy + Weak Armor is also a toughie to face, especially those Endure Polteageists.
Rating: ★★★★☆
Sand
Sand dropped off hard after the Sand Rush ban, but Sand Stream + Sand Force is still a potent combination. Tyranitar and Excadrill are both OU pokemon, so I tried my hand at building Tour Player Approved™ sand balance in Shared Power.
Godzilla and the mole is a tried and true core, giving sand, rocks, and spin. I went with Scarf Excadrill for speed control. Hydreigon is an underrated breaker with nice synergies, since Sand Force buffs Flash Cannon and Earth Power and Levitate is very appreciated by TTar and Exca. Ferrothorn + Arcanine gives you a Flash Fire Steel to deal with Dragapult and friends. Sylveon rounds the team out with a Fighting resist and lets Arcanine pick off weakened HO mons with Pixilate Extreme Speed.
I was very pleasantly surprised at how well this balance team works in a tier full of cheesy setup and roided up breakers. Sand chip damage is useful for picking apart flimsy Sturdy teams, and Hydreigon with Wish support pressures stall. Tyranitar counters some classic balance breakers like Reuni and Chandelure. I'm sure some kind of Skill Link offense with Queenly Majesty support could beat this, but I didn't run into it in my testing, so sand balance gets a perfect 5/5 score!
Rating: ★★★★★
I was so inspired by sand that I built an HO version of the team with Sturdy + Weak Armor + Endure sweepers. I think Weak Armor HO is potentially the scariest team around right now. With Sand Force, you're immune to the sand chip that plagues other Sturdy teams, giving you a huge edge in the mirror matchup.
Hail
Sorry, snow fans, I didn't get around to building with Hail just yet! Stay tuned for more, or build it yourself!
Also Iron head's flinch helped me a lot in this game Sand HO
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You make reasonable points. My main point was to seperate the viability of flare boost from guts. And therefore special vs physical teams. As i suspect the ban on guts/problem with quick feet is the real reason flare boost received a ban (As it was wrongly categorised as the equivalent). Besides my own team which i posted here, i had not seen a Drifbloom in 60+ games, and my team is walled by a lot of stall teams.
Special teams definitely don't have the most busted boosting and i haven't been swept/threatened by a special attacker in this game since contrary was banned. Swords dance/dragon dance are quite widespread too. You often have to choose between abuser or ability on special teams, whilst physical teams get both (I'm thinking Crawdaunt, Darm, Conk, hustle users, no guard users, skill link users, etc there's so many powerful mons with great abilities, one turn set up etc), and access better moves (special have higher power generally but at cost of accuracy, which if you want to fix, will require a physical attacker for No guard)
This isn't extensive, but i did a comparison of special vs physical attackers.
Top 25 special attackers: ending with Salazzle at a 111 Spa Att base stat. (All others 110 or below)
5 break the 100 speed base stat, 13 beat base 80 (will outspeed things like Zeroura and Dragapult at +1/scarf)
Viable offence ability boosters: Analytic ( beeyehem), weak armour (Poltergeist), Punk Rock (Toxtricity), Technician (Roserade, Not viable for many special attacks), liquid voice (Primarena, serene grace/super luck, beserk? - i mention the pokemon because most aren't that fantastic options for breakers/offence in this meta.
Special priority users: 1 (Lucario)
Top 25 physical attackers: Ending with Gallispod at 125 Att base stat.
The top 25 have lower average speed tiers, but since there's literally double the amount of pokemon above base 111 Att, you end up with more + the fastest viable pokemon in Dragapult/Zeroura.
Boosters: reckless, guts, iron fist, sheer force, sand force, scrappy, Steelworker, no guard, swift swim, slush rush, sand rush, defiant, moxie. + The users above 110 att: grassy terrain, adaptability, queenly majesty, prankster, Infiltrator/clear body, super luck, strong jaw + a range of already banned abilities/combos for weather, mold breaker, unburden etc. + The majority of these abilities are listed at least twice on different pokemon, giving you more lenient team building.
Priority users: 12
Hell queenly majesty is viable on every single team purely based on the broken amount of priority, insane attack stats/boosters and therefore physical teams + prankster
Not really arguing against you, just adding information to my point/your point.
Two actions that should have been done sooner: Leppa Berry is banned. Endless Battle Clause isn't designed for OMs, especially one like this. Harvest is unbanned. It was primarily banned because of the Leppa Berry exploitation. If it is proven to be an issue when combined with Cheek Pouch, we can look at complex banning them.
I understand the general point of what you're saying and I agree. Flare Boost is not the Special equivalent of Guts and therefore should probably be unbanned just like Harvest. And then we will see if it's actually OP.
Despite agreeing with you, I personally think Special teams are a lot more common now. I faced 4 special teams in 5 battles. I also think Special mons are underrated still, I used this team below and won several battles against various teams. So to me, Special sweepers are potent already, you just need the right combinations.
Here's the team:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8sharedpower-1102172161
:)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8sharedpower-1103059234
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8sharedpower-1103061095
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8sharedpower-1103069014
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8sharedpower-1103079732
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8sharedpower-1103082121
Snorlax @ Iapapa Berry
Ability: Gluttony
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Defense Curl
- Sunny Day
- Body Press
- Substitute
Appletun @ Iapapa Berry
Ability: Ripen
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Bullet Seed
- Recover
- Sunny Day
- Substitute
Trevenant @ Iapapa Berry
Ability: Harvest
EVs: 244 HP / 12 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Leech Seed
- Substitute
- Foul Play
- Protect
Grimmsnarl (M) @ Iapapa Berry
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 244 HP / 12 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Substitute
- Bulk Up
- Darkest Lariat
- Light Screen
Corviknight @ Starf Berry
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Substitute
- Iron Head
- Roost
- Power Trip
Greedent @ Iapapa Berry
Ability: Cheek Pouch
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Substitute
- Protect
- Body Slam
- Endure
Dont bother bringing up: Unnerve, Pixisound spam, Infiltrator, I'm aware they win. This team is meant to have fun, not to win everything.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8sharedpower-1103061095
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8sharedpower-1103069014
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8sharedpower-1103079732
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8sharedpower-1103082121
Snorlax @ Iapapa Berry
Ability: Gluttony
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Defense Curl
- Sunny Day
- Body Press
- Substitute
Appletun @ Iapapa Berry
Ability: Ripen
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Bullet Seed
- Recover
- Sunny Day
- Substitute
Trevenant @ Iapapa Berry
Ability: Harvest
EVs: 244 HP / 12 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Leech Seed
- Substitute
- Foul Play
- Protect
Grimmsnarl (M) @ Iapapa Berry
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 244 HP / 12 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Substitute
- Bulk Up
- Darkest Lariat
- Light Screen
Corviknight @ Starf Berry
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Substitute
- Iron Head
- Roost
- Power Trip
Greedent @ Iapapa Berry
Ability: Cheek Pouch
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Substitute
- Protect
- Body Slam
- Endure
Dont bother bringing up: Unnerve, Pixisound spam, Infiltrator, I'm aware they win. This team is meant to have fun, not to win everything.
The Shared Power metagame currently revolves around a few centralizing HO strategies. They are:
Enter Meltan.
--> Click here for Meltan team <--
This Pokemon is useless by itself, but lets every single user on your team trap Steel types. When you're able to trap a Pokemon while being able to switch yourself, this kind of thing can happen.
I slapped a Meltan onto a Skill Link team, and now it comes close to autowinning if it encounters a Steel type. This gives it a good matchup versus stalls that run Ferrothorn or Corviknight as well as balances with Durant, Excadrill, Bisharp, or Togedemaru. Versus enemy HO, Skill Link usually does pretty well despite being being down a team member.
Here's a replay where SD Excadrill is trapped and used as setup fodder for DD Necrozma: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8sharedpower-1103306690
I think Meltan could be used effectively on any team which relies on sweepers walled by Flash Fire Corviknight or other steels (Skill Link, Dragapult spam, or Harvest, to name a few). Just watch out for Doublade!
- Multi-hit spam (countered by Stamina + Steel type)
- Dragapult + 5 mons that support Dragapult (countered by Flash Fire + Steel type)
- Weather (Sun countered by Flash Fire + Steel Type, Sand by floating Steel)
- Weak Armor + Sturdy (countered by...idk, being very careful about when you click physical attacks?)
Enter Meltan.
--> Click here for Meltan team <--
This Pokemon is useless by itself, but lets every single user on your team trap Steel types. When you're able to trap a Pokemon while being able to switch yourself, this kind of thing can happen.
I slapped a Meltan onto a Skill Link team, and now it comes close to autowinning if it encounters a Steel type. This gives it a good matchup versus stalls that run Ferrothorn or Corviknight as well as balances with Durant, Excadrill, Bisharp, or Togedemaru. Versus enemy HO, Skill Link usually does pretty well despite being being down a team member.
Here's a replay where SD Excadrill is trapped and used as setup fodder for DD Necrozma: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8sharedpower-1103306690
I think Meltan could be used effectively on any team which relies on sweepers walled by Flash Fire Corviknight or other steels (Skill Link, Dragapult spam, or Harvest, to name a few). Just watch out for Doublade!
Weak Armor + Sturdy could be countered by special attackers, unless those aren’t very good.
My thoughts recently on the the meta
SpA teams are nonexistent despite the conditions they would thrive in right now
Regenerator is still used a fair amount of the time.
Main Point:
I've seen too many less weakness teams- the ones with sap sipper, flash fire, stamina, fluffy, storm drain, volt absorb, immunity(things like that)they're decent but I dunno how they would work in an environment where icicle spear and rock blast are common.
Good team above but I just didn't encounter steel types, I always encountered some stamina mons that destroyed the team. Maybe this team will advance as the meta evolves to the new unban on harvest, I just don't know.
SpA teams are nonexistent despite the conditions they would thrive in right now
Regenerator is still used a fair amount of the time.
Main Point:
I've seen too many less weakness teams- the ones with sap sipper, flash fire, stamina, fluffy, storm drain, volt absorb, immunity(things like that)they're decent but I dunno how they would work in an environment where icicle spear and rock blast are common.
Good team above but I just didn't encounter steel types, I always encountered some stamina mons that destroyed the team. Maybe this team will advance as the meta evolves to the new unban on harvest, I just don't know.
I feel Clefable is ignoring 2 other very big teams in the meta:
- Multi-hit spam (countered by Stamina + Steel type)
- Dragapult + 5 mons that support Dragapult (countered by Flash Fire + Steel type)
- Weather (Sun countered by Flash Fire + Steel Type, Sand by floating Steel)
- Weak Armor + Sturdy (countered by...idk, being very careful about when you click physical attacks?)
- Punk Rock Kommo-o/Nasty Plot sheer force Gengar
- Berry Power Trip
Now for the tier Sturdy is a BIG Issue, this gen adds an item that act like a magic guard to hazards, so you can't break the sturdy with this strategy.
Also weak armor is scary in a team with Sturdy HDB Spam but the user can run Endure instead sturdy, to stop multi hit attack and get the boost normally with a berry that boost Atk or SpAtk with Tsareena around the corner is impossible use priority. So the council need check this.
Also weak armor is scary in a team with Sturdy HDB Spam but the user can run Endure instead sturdy, to stop multi hit attack and get the boost normally with a berry that boost Atk or SpAtk with Tsareena around the corner is impossible use priority. So the council need check this.
The problem here is that Rattled checks whether the attack decrease was specifically due to Intimidate, and its check fails for "Shared Intimidate".
I did have a patch for an unrelated issue which might have fixed this, but that issue suffered from scope creep so I gave up on it.
Does Adrenaline Orb have the same problem?
can you unban toxapex with merciless? mareanie is unusable it gets one shot or two shot by everything and it doesn't even have baneful bunker
(and ban regenerator for all pokemons)
(and ban regenerator for all pokemons)
Complex banning Toxapex + Regenerator on a team I agree with. Make Merciless a valid thing.
Banning regenerator in general... honestly imo that is a viable thing to do. It weakens stall more than it should; but banning regen and unbanning fur coat seems to keep things in balance.
Unbanning tox but not doing anything else wouldnt do anything since another mon could just give Tox regen back.
but then fur coat + fluffy + stamina = horrible
and fur coat + fluffy + prankster + recover will be awesome too, last time i faced that there was also a regenerator and I had a guts team and just died on flame orb chip damage, the guy just had nothing to do to win :D
also if you give toxapex back regenerator with another pokemon, you will miss a useful ability, I'm not sure many will pick him up, it would only be viable with merciless but I can still see it being a problem with toxic spikes
actually regenerator takes 0 skill, 0 strategy, 0 brain
how many times i've seen battles where the guy keeps switching until he has regenerated all his pokemons? (rarely happened to me but i watched others' battles and it's plain boring and people get angry each time)
it's only about switching for regen teams and as I said before, the first turns before activating the abilities are one of the best part of this OM, but regen just destroys this part
And the new harvest ability unban unleashed a new spam of the same teams that are as cancerous as regenerator teams
When I watch battles, it's always the same thing, people just substitute and pray to get the right buffs, then when they have enough they either stored power or the dark type equivalent
this is very anti-game, and in top of that, it's based on luck... and every team needs to be prepared for that now which means have infiltrator, toxic spikes, taunt and probably other counters (and also be lucky)
to be fair, I find many strategies to be 100% anti-game and should be banned asap but it will probably never happen
When I watch battles, it's always the same thing, people just substitute and pray to get the right buffs, then when they have enough they either stored power or the dark type equivalent
this is very anti-game, and in top of that, it's based on luck... and every team needs to be prepared for that now which means have infiltrator, toxic spikes, taunt and probably other counters (and also be lucky)
to be fair, I find many strategies to be 100% anti-game and should be banned asap but it will probably never happen
I’d say a Starf Berry ban on the grounds of it being a way to get around the evasion clause. Unless it doesn’t boost evasion, but either way, a ban on it may be in order.
It doesn't boost evasion. Not sure why you wouldn't just /dt this or look it up before posting.
I made a post on starf berry abuse earlier, though, with replays as to why it's dumb.
That being said, unnerve, infiltrator, phasing, all shut it down entirely.
Hello,
Harvest teams are probably the easiest to beat, since you pretty much know the entire team's sets at preview.
Teams like this should be autowins for you and if they aren't your team isn't very well built.
I only say this because if you can't beat harvest berry spam, you also can't beat sub pressure stall. That means that team will lose to two drastically different archetypes, far too many from a team building stand point.
Taunt, Multi-hit, Infiltrator, Whirlwind, Roar, Sound Moves, T-Spikes, Unnerve, Perish Song (in order of viability) all fit easily on any team.
You only really need to fit one as there isn't much the opposing mons can do without boosts, you can freely just switch to your taunt mon and taunt at little cost. Actually you don't even need any of them if you just muscle through as these berry teams are forced to run terrible mons like Greedent and Appletun. Taunt+Whirlwind are a good idea on any team for any meta to begin with, this isn't anything crazy centralizing that you wouldn't run before without Harvest.
I will agree that is is annoying when the match comes down to what kind of luck the berry will have, but it requires so much set up, it's not hard to take down if you don't give them free turns. The Harvest player needs to send out 4 or 5 mons just to make 1 or 2 really threatening, you have 6 whole slots to fit a counter in.