General News Discussion Thread

[McGrrr]

Even a stopped clock is right twice a day:

FT: President Donald Trump has ordered the main federal government pension fund not to invest its portfolio in Chinese companies

Nobody with any sense would invest in companies with such systemic governance failures and opacity, so why have pension funds been doing it on people's behalves?

If there's one thing that I can praise Donald Trump for, even if he clearly doesn't understand what he's doing and his motives are typically nefarious/selfish/misguided, is his foreign policy pivot against China. The developed world has appeased China for too long on the assumption that once the CCP was invited to the table, it would vaguely act as a team player. They have instead routinely pissed all over international agreements, while openly stealing intellectual property.

 

[TexanSansei]

Apparently this happened
White woman who called police on a black man bird-watching in Central Park has been fired
That black mans a chad among chads for recording that.

MORE NEWS EDIT: A city in Minneapolis got looted by protesters because of the death of George Floyd, a Black man who was killed by an officer kneeling on his neck. The four officers involved were arrested and the FBI is looking into the matter for a violation of civil rights. The National Guard was called in and the protesters were shot at with tear gas and rubber bullets. My take on this is that the officers need to be arrested(they were only fired), and that the looting was done for the right reason in the wrong way. I think that a looting by itself(Target got looted) would´ve been a good way to protest. However a car was stolen from an auto shop and rammed into a bank(that aint protesting) and people had to evacuate homes due to fires shattering windows and gas filling the homes of the residents. I think that the protest was well needed but escalated to the point where non-police people were in danger.

 

[Shrug]

sometimes i just sit and think and despair because of how dumb the current ruling party of the united states is. theres at least visible intelligence ideologically squandered among democratic politicians, and a sort of animal cunning / vicious charm among the elite ones. the republicans elect some absolute simpleton without fail and have their petty delusions become the focal point of the political discourse of what is still, somehow, the most powerful country on earth, a process done by people even fucking dumber, pettier, crueler than them (see above). idk how you fight your way through the thicket to an actually viable (as in, can make change) political grammar and usage.

 

[Zerses]

It seems curious how different media and politicians have been talking about the protests that take place in Minneapolis. They say the protests are produced by left-wing extremists, foreign interference, and even go so far by targetting and blaming Antifa to the point of declaring it as a terrorist organization, all this without evidence.

https://www.dw.com/en/george-floyd-protests-trump-officials-blame-extremist-outsiders-for-violence/a-53642481
- Officials have offered up little evidence to support their claims that these groups are the primary drivers of violent unrest, with the chaos at the demonstrations making it difficult to verify their identities and motives.
- US President Donald Trump and his administration have solely blamed left-wing extremists and Antifa for prompting violence at the protests — but again, have not provided evidence.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/susan-rice-suggests-russians-behind-violent-george-floyd-demonstrations
- Former Obama administration national security adviser Susan Rice bizarrely suggested in a televised interview Sunday that the Russians could be behind the violent nationwide demonstrations following the in-custody death of George Floyd, although she offered no evidence for the incendiary claim.

But when it comes to protests from other countries, protests that are violent, in which people violate the rights of others for simply thinking different, these people are often called defenders of freedom of expression, human rights and democracy instead, which is quite ironic tbh. What's been going on in Minneapolis shows how much ignorance there is in Trump's politics to not give visibility to a problem as serious as violation of civil rights, but yeah, apparently it's easy to interfere and blame others.

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/10/26/asia/hong-kong-destruction-support-intl-hnk/index.html
- The airport incident marked one of the defining moments in the protests, which began in June with peaceful mass marches against a now-withdrawn bill that would have allowed extradition to mainland China, among other countries. It has since spiraled into a broader pro-democracy, anti-government movement, with protesters laying out five major demands -- only one of which has been met.
- Even more sinister than the destruction itself is "the acceptance from the anti-government people," said Patrick, 26, who also initially supported the demonstrators' right to peaceful protest before the situation escalated. He accused supporters on the sidelines of expressing "no condemnation" -- meaning they were either scared to speak out against the movement, or truly believed that violence was right. He said he doesn't know which is worse.
- Standing in sharp contrast on the other side are members of the self-dubbed "silent majority" -- people who oppose the unrest. They argue that the protesters are spreading chaos and fear across the city, trashing the economy, and hurting not just their own cause but everybody caught in the crossfire.

Yes, it's sad to know that this is what "politics" has been turned into

 

[Zerses]

Too bad you deleted your post Dece1t, (Mod note: he didn't) but I wanted to answer you, so according to what you just said, shouldn't I believe in half of the articles above or what? George Floyd wasn't kill by the police? he just decided to die out of nowhere because he wanted to? shouldn't I believe that the so called pro-democracy protests that took place in Hong Kong were not good enough according to people from the movement? so I can just go around and completely destroy anyone's property and violent others for not having the same point of view as I do, is that ok? yet there's some people I've talked to (and I'm sure there's more people who think in the same way) who complain about what's going on in Minneapolis but defend what happened in Hong Kong for example, that's why I quoted these articles and didn't say anything at all, because they talk for themselves. I just wanted to point out the level of hypocrisy and ignorance from the media when they talk about what happened in Hong Kong or any other protests in contrast of what's going on in Minneapolis.

Anyway, sorry for having shared an opinion based on a few articles from CNN and FoxNews, I guess I just shouldn't be reading them next time, have a good day buddy!

 

[TexanSansei]

It seems curious how different media and politicians have been talking about the protests that take place in Minneapolis. They say the protests are produced by left-wing extremists, foreign interference, and even go so far by targetting and blaming Antifa to the point of declaring it as a terrorist organization, all this without evidence.

https://www.dw.com/en/george-floyd-protests-trump-officials-blame-extremist-outsiders-for-violence/a-53642481
- Officials have offered up little evidence to support their claims that these groups are the primary drivers of violent unrest, with the chaos at the demonstrations making it difficult to verify their identities and motives.
- US President Donald Trump and his administration have solely blamed left-wing extremists and Antifa for prompting violence at the protests — but again, have not provided evidence.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/susan-rice-suggests-russians-behind-violent-george-floyd-demonstrations
- Former Obama administration national security adviser Susan Rice bizarrely suggested in a televised interview Sunday that the Russians could be behind the violent nationwide demonstrations following the in-custody death of George Floyd, although she offered no evidence for the incendiary claim.

But when it comes to protests from other countries, protests that are violent, in which people violate the rights of others for simply thinking different, these people are often called defenders of freedom of expression, human rights and democracy instead, which is quite ironic tbh. What's been going on in Minneapolis shows how much ignorance there is in Trump's politics to not give visibility to a problem as serious as violation of civil rights, but yeah, apparently it's easy to interfere and blame others.

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/10/26/asia/hong-kong-destruction-support-intl-hnk/index.html
- The airport incident marked one of the defining moments in the protests, which began in June with peaceful mass marches against a now-withdrawn bill that would have allowed extradition to mainland China, among other countries. It has since spiraled into a broader pro-democracy, anti-government movement, with protesters laying out five major demands -- only one of which has been met.
- Even more sinister than the destruction itself is "the acceptance from the anti-government people," said Patrick, 26, who also initially supported the demonstrators' right to peaceful protest before the situation escalated. He accused supporters on the sidelines of expressing "no condemnation" -- meaning they were either scared to speak out against the movement, or truly believed that violence was right. He said he doesn't know which is worse.
- Standing in sharp contrast on the other side are members of the self-dubbed "silent majority" -- people who oppose the unrest. They argue that the protesters are spreading chaos and fear across the city, trashing the economy, and hurting not just their own cause but everybody caught in the crossfire.

Yes, it's sad to know that this is what "politics" has been turned into

Surprisingly ABC lately has been trying super hard to point out that a lot of the protests are peaceful and that the police have tased innocent people, ran over innocent people, etc. I never thought there would be a time where abc would be more liberal than CNN. Of course the best news source for the protests would probably be the independent journalists that spend the whole day recording the protests.

 

[zf]

First, I must confess that over the last few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season."

I urge those with the available means to take action. Join a movement if possible. If you cannot protest, donate to funds which support those who can. If you can do neither, donate your time. There is something productive you can do.

Fascism has no place in America. It's presence ebbs and flows through presidencies and eras, but it is always there. And now we have reached a breaking point - the people have had enough.

I'm tired of arguing in circles with bad faith actors. I will not be responding to any criticisms of this post. If you're a Nazi punk, fuck off and don't come back.

 

[ManOfMany]

I've seen a lot of people arguing over which sides are escalating the most violence, whether property damage is justified, etc. I think these sorts of discussions are really missing the mark.

The fact is that riots are inevitable, because people are very angry. And they should be, because the people who are supposed to be protecting their communities are killing them instead. Why try to work within the system when the system itself keeps tearing you down? The only way to prevent riots is to solve the underlying causes of racism and authoritarianism.

I do have hope. The internet has made it much easier to expose the world to the abuses of the police. It shows someone like me, who is living in the suburbs, a different perspective. The current generation of cops may double down on their brutality, but the next generation of people who become cops are watching. And I think there is a chance they will learn to do better.

 

[Dece1t]

Too bad you deleted your post Dece1t, (Mod note: he didn't) but I wanted to answer you, so according to what you just said, shouldn't I believe in half of the articles above or what? George Floyd wasn't kill by the police? he just decided to die out of nowhere because he wanted to? shouldn't I believe that the so called pro-democracy protests that took place in Hong Kong were not good enough according to people from the movement? so I can just go around and completely destroy anyone's property and violent others for not having the same point of view as I do, is that ok? yet there's some people I've talked to (and I'm sure there's more people who think in the same way) who complain about what's going on in Minneapolis but defend what happened in Hong Kong for example, that's why I quoted these articles and didn't say anything at all, because they talk for themselves. I just wanted to point out the level of hypocrisy and ignorance from the media when they talk about what happened in Hong Kong or any other protests in contrast of what's going on in Minneapolis.

Anyway, sorry for having shared an opinion based on a few articles from CNN and FoxNews, I guess I just shouldn't be reading them next time, have a good day buddy!

Besides George Floyd. What happened to him was fucked up, and that cop deserves to rot in jail for as long as possible (thanks for deleting my sarcasm mods, appreciate it). For instance, the Russians being the culprits of the riots, that is a batshit conspiracy theory at best, or Hong Kong being "Anti [Communist] government." Just naming a couple that did not make much sense.

 

[TexanSansei]

I've seen a lot of people arguing over which sides are escalating the most violence, whether property damage is justified, etc. I think these sorts of discussions are really missing the mark.

The fact is that riots are inevitable, because people are very angry. And they should be, because the people who are supposed to be protecting their communities are killing them instead. Why try to work within the system when the system itself keeps tearing you down? The only way to prevent riots is to solve the underlying causes of racism and authoritarianism.

I do have hope. The internet has made it much easier to expose the world to the abuses of the police. It shows someone like me, who is living in the suburbs, a different perspective. The current generation of cops may double down on their brutality, but the next generation of people who become cops are watching. And I think there is a chance they will learn to do better.

Actually MLK said something similar to your last line in the first paragraph. ¨And as long as America postpones justice, we stand in the position of having these recurrences of violence and riots over and over again. Social justice and progress are the absolute guarantors of riot prevention.¨

 

[orch]

The democratic media is buzzing about qualified immunity being the crux of the issue.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/29/opinion/Minneapolis-police-George-Floyd.html

I agree that the qualified immunity statue affords police undue protection with the law enforcement. Judges from the left and the right have criticized this particular statue. In short, it only allows cops to be judged based on similar cases. This means that police must become more and more creative with their misconduct to avoid prosecution.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qualified_immunity#Ineffectiveness

I think that any reasonable right winger should be in favor of ending qualified immunity. The law itself breaks down the American hierarchy by putting cops above the law. Isn't the law supposed to be above of the people? Let's restore the American hierarchy in an orderly fashion. There is no need to continue the revisionist reverence for the cops which codified as a law in 1967. It's the time for 1774.

I just wish that the left wouldn't frame the issue as black and white. Yes, racism is real and it makes cops brutalize black people more frequently. It is a poor framing to trump up the racism aspect rather than police brutality convince the "silent majority" to join the cause IMO. As a white person, I have experienced police brutality, and I don't wish it upon anyone else.

 

[gvmgvm40]

Actually MLK said something similar to your last line in the first paragraph. ¨And as long as America postpones justice, we stand in the position of having these recurrences of violence and riots over and over again. Social justice and progress are the absolute guarantors of riot prevention.¨

A longer version of that quote (https://www.crmvet.org/docs/otheram.htm):

So these conditions, existence of widespread poverty, slums, and of tragic conniptions in schools and other areas of life, all of these things have brought about a great deal of despair, and a great deal of desperation. A great deal of disappointment and even bitterness in the Negro communities. And today all of our cities confront huge problems. All of our cities are potentially powder kegs as a result of the continued existence of these conditions. Many in moments of anger, many in moments of deep bitterness engage in riots.

Let me say as I've always said, and I will always continue to say, that riots are socially destructive and self-defeating. I'm still convinced that nonviolence is the most potent weapon available to oppressed people in their struggle for freedom and justice. I feel that violence will only create more social problems than they will solve. That in a real sense it is impracticable for the Negro to even think of mounting a violent revolution in the United States. So I will continue to condemn riots, and continue to say to my brothers and sisters that this is not the way. And continue to affirm that there is another way.

But at the same time, it is as necessary for me to be as vigorous in condemning the conditions which cause persons to feel that they must engage in riotous activities as it is for me to condemn riots. I think America must see that riots do not develop out of thin air. Certain conditions continue to exist in our society which must be condemned as vigorously as we condemn riots. But in the final analysis, a riot is the language of the unheard. And what is it that America has failed to hear? It has failed to hear that the plight of the Negro poor has worsened over the last few years. It has failed to hear that the promises of freedom and justice have not been met. And it has failed to hear that large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice, equality, and humanity. And so in a real sense our nation's summers of riots are caused by our nation's winters of delay. And as long as America postpones justice, we stand in the position of having these recurrences of violence and riots over and over again. Social justice and progress are the absolute guarantors of riot prevention.

plus ça change...

 

[Bughouse]

The democratic media is buzzing about qualified immunity being the crux of the issue.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/29/opinion/Minneapolis-police-George-Floyd.html

I agree that the qualified immunity statue affords police undue protection with the law enforcement. Judges from the left and the right have criticized this particular statue. In short, it only allows cops to be judged based on similar cases. This means that police must become more and more creative with their misconduct to avoid prosecution.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qualified_immunity#Ineffectiveness

I think that any reasonable right winger should be in favor of ending qualified immunity. The law itself breaks down the American hierarchy by putting cops above the law. Isn't the law supposed to be above of the people? Let's restore the American hierarchy in an orderly fashion. There is no need to continue the revisionist reverence for the cops which codified as a law in 1967. It's the time for 1774.

I just wish that the left wouldn't frame the issue as black and white. Yes, racism is real and it makes cops brutalize black people more frequently. It is a poor framing to trump up the racism aspect rather than police brutality convince the "silent majority" to join the cause IMO. As a white person, I have experienced police brutality, and I don't wish it upon anyone else.

rather conveniently, qualified immunity is potentially in play at the supreme court within the next year.

https://www.scotusblog.com/case-files/cases/zadeh-v-robinson/
They've "re-listed" the case several times now, meaning it's been up for discussion whether they'll add it to the list of cases to hear next term or not. It only takes 4 justices to make that happen but for a pretty big change like this I'm relatively certain the 4 more liberal justices would not grant the case without some sense that they'd find additional votes.

But you're absolutely right that true small C conservatives should be for serious reform. Cato, along with several other prominent groups (of varying ideology) is: https://www.cato.org/publications/legal-briefs/zadeh-v-robinson
The fact that republicans are by and large not in favor of this reveals true preferences towards authoritarianism, but what else is new.

I will say I'm somewhat leery that SCOTUS will change anything based on their recent holdings related to Bivens. But I do recognize Bivens isn't quite the same thing as qualified immunity as a whole.

 

[Dece1t]

The fact that republicans are by and large not in favor of this reveals true preferences towards authoritarianism, but what else is new.

A little ironic given y'all are for the government being in every facet of your lives, i.e. healthcare. But sorry, carry on we're the authoritarian ones even though the vast majority actually push for individual liberty and many libertarian ideals. Pardon me, conservatives are the authoritarians.

 

[PDC]

big government = left
small government = right

 

[BIG ASHLEY]

if you like small government, why not get rid of the police & military? i'm sure that would curb a lot of spending, too.

 

[peng]

edit: didn't phrase this well the first time, so here's a less fluffy version

I hope the BLM protests in the US are a catalyst for a widespread revamp of the policing system, because the issues with US law enforcement go beyond racial prejudices. Even a racially-unbiased police force in the US would still kill ~600 people annually (inc 60-90 african americans), 20x more per capita than most of europe. Clearly there are some deep rooted issues - relatively low bar of entry (in some states only a few months course vs several years in europe), general mentality, cover-up culture, lack of accountability etc. The racial issues bubble at the surface and are immediately clear to see, and as such will always be the priority that should be dealt with, but underneath is a system that doesn't really work for anybody.

 

[willempju]

edit: didn't phrase this well the first time, so here's a less fluffy version

I hope the BLM protests in the US are a catalyst for a widespread revamp of the policing system, because the issues with US law enforcement go beyond racial prejudices. Even a racially-unbiased police force in the US would still kill ~600 people annually (inc 60-90 african americans), 20x more per capita than most of europe. Clearly there are some deep rooted issues - relatively low bar of entry (in some states only a few months course vs several years in europe), general mentality, cover-up culture, lack of accountability etc. The racial issues bubble are at the surface and immediately clear to see, and as such will always be the priority that should be dealt with, but underneath is a system that doesn't really work for anybody.

You're forgetting one of the most important differences with Europe: a widespread availability of guns. The knowledge that it is likely that a random person might carry a gun makes anyone more likely to pull the trigger themselves. In Europe this is only a real risk when dealing with organised crime.

 

[barton]

Side with the oppressed.

https://bailfunds.github.io/

 

[Ningildo]

I do think that the police force in the US does need a reform of some kind, be it improved standards for officers, promoting de-escalation tactics or more forms of non-lethal force. What happened to George Floyd was despicable and the cop who did it should be punished to the full extent of the law (which he did).

I can't for the life of me see how looting stores and attacking people helps your case, though. I'm sure it's only a small minority of people who pretend to be "protesters" that do the aforementioned, but I still think condemning the riots and assaults from "protesters" would help the case for reform better, lest they ruin the efforts of those protesting forcefully yet peacefully and give excuses for harsher government intervention.

Although, given that there are police officers showing at least a sign of solidarity, it seems the protests are doing something. Here's hoping it actually leads to some reform.

 

[lilyhollow]

I still think condemning the riots and assaults from "protesters" would help the case for reform better, lest they ruin the efforts of those protesting forcefully yet peacefully and give excuses for harsher government intervention.

If you see someone punch me in the face repeatedly, and I punch back one time, condemning me for that is definitely not going to help me out. It is the police who are committing violence here.

The governor of Minnesota lied and said that 80% of people arrested at the protests were 'outside agitators.' He used this to justify the curfew and increased violence from the police. So you are believing the government in what is just an attempt to get people to look past the violent response to these protests. You also are believing the police when they show 'solidarity' with the protests. Not sure how that's possible when you have police shooting people point-blank with 'rubber bullets,' shooting people for being on their porch, firing tear gas into peaceful crowds, etc etc etc.

Also

should be punished to the full extent of the law (which he did).

Actually he's only been charged with 'accidentally' killing George Floyd. So he actually hasn't even been punished at all yet, and even if he does end up punished, it won't be to the fullest extent of the law. And on top of that, there were three other cops involved here who have not been charged at all.

 

[brightobject]

Although, given that there are police officers showing at least a sign of solidarity, it seems the protests are doing something. Here's hoping it actually leads to some reform.

Many of these photo ops are closely by donning of gas-masks, loading of guns, and tear gassing of crowds--a notable example being Portland. If the liberal overapplication of force by cops is really up for dispute, consider the fact that a peaceful protest was tear-gassed without any prior warning by cop squads in order to clear the street for a Trump photo op in front of a church. Don't be fooled into taking symbolic acts and statements of goodwill by the police or the administration over their actual conduct. This modern incarnation of an eternally present problem has been in the news for at least a decade now, yet police chiefs have always been hesitant to condemn or call out the behavior of their officers.

Note further how the police seem to be in many cases deliberately provoking aggression and engaging in intimidation tactics. A friend of mine working at a peaceful sanctuary in NYC had the officers shaking tear gas canisters in the parking lot 10 minutes after curfew. Regardless of the police's feelings on the ACAB mantra, that is NO excuse for them to engage in such hostility towards the citizens they are supposed to be protecting.

Re: looting...there's an incredible disconnect to me when people look at protests of people burning down some store and feeling more shock and horror than when they hear about the systematic violence enacted against BIPOC in this country, to the extent that their fundamental physical needs are compromised. Death by cop is ALWAYS a factor, no matter one's standing. Note the recent viral video where Audubon-society birdwatcher, Harvard-graduate, award-winning movie producer Chris Cooper was threatened by a white woman in Central Park with murder by cop. Property is insured and replaceable. Black lives are not.

If you are curious about what you can do but don't feel like you are able to donate to organizations like bail funds or Reclaim the Block, consider that even having the conversation about BLM with your family and friends can be a big deal in terms of correcting unspoken racial prejudices.

E: To clarify, while my post might come off as in some ways generally anti-cop/capitalist, this is NOT about the simple proletariat and VERY much about antiblackness in America, and capitalism/law enforcement are just two of the many tools baked into the arsenal of white supremacy.

 

[TexanSansei]

I do think that the police force in the US does need a reform of some kind, be it improved standards for officers, promoting de-escalation tactics or more forms of non-lethal force. What happened to George Floyd was despicable and the cop who did it should be punished to the full extent of the law (which he did).

I can't for the life of me see how looting stores and attacking people helps your case, though. I'm sure it's only a small minority of people who pretend to be "protesters" that do the aforementioned, but I still think condemning the riots and assaults from "protesters" would help the case for reform better, lest they ruin the efforts of those protesting forcefully yet peacefully and give excuses for harsher government intervention.

Although, given that there are police officers showing at least a sign of solidarity, it seems the protests are doing something. Here's hoping it actually leads to some reform.

To respond to this with an actually(what I thought)good list of 5 reasons why people destroy stuff at riots as opposed to your one reason.

So I gotta say that I think at least some people out there are doing it for reason number one.(Which I find incredibly honorable) although there are some negative reasons why people do it as well

 

[Ningildo]

If you see someone punch me in the face repeatedly, and I punch back one time, condemning me for that is definitely not going to help me out. It is the police who are committing violence here.

This would be fine if the actions weren't also aimed at people who aren't involved. Goes for both sides fwiw.

The governor of Minnesota lied and said that 80% of people arrested at the protests were 'outside agitators.' He used this to justify the curfew and increased violence from the police. So you are believing the government in what is just an attempt to get people to look past the violent response to these protests. You also are believing the police when they show 'solidarity' with the protests. Not sure how that's possible when you have police shooting people point-blank with 'rubber bullets,' shooting people for being on their porch, firing tear gas into peaceful crowds, etc etc etc.

I said I had concerns that the small minority of "protesters" that riot would used as an excuse for further government intervention against actual protesters who were protesting peacefully...I'm kind of lost at the first two sentences.

And interesting for the rest of it, I didn't know that. Mind sourcing?

Also Actually he's only been charged with 'accidentally' killing George Floyd. So he actually hasn't even been punished at all yet, and even if he does end up punished, it won't be to the fullest extent of the law. And on top of that, there were three other cops involved here who have not been charged at all.

Then he would be insufficiently punished, not unpunished.

Thanks for the clarification, though!

Many of these photo ops are closely by donning of gas-masks, loading of guns, and tear gassing of crowds--a notable example being Portland. If the liberal overapplication of force by cops is really up for dispute, consider the fact that a peaceful protest was tear-gassed without any prior warning by cop squads in order to clear the street for a Trump photo op in front of a church. Don't be fooled into taking symbolic acts and statements of goodwill by the police or the administration over their actual conduct. This modern incarnation of an eternally present problem has been in the news for at least a decade now, yet police chiefs have always been hesitant to condemn or call out the behavior of their officers.

I guess I'll take your word for considering I don't really keep up with police brutality in the US.

Note further how the police seem to be in many cases deliberately provoking aggression and engaging in intimidation tactics. A friend of mine working at a peaceful sanctuary in NYC had the officers shaking tear gas canisters in the parking lot 10 minutes after curfew. Regardless of the police's feelings on the ACAB mantra, that is NO excuse for them to engage in such hostility towards the citizens they are supposed to be protecting.

I agree,

Re: looting...there's an incredible disconnect to me when people look at protests of people burning down some store and feeling more shock and horror than when they hear about the systematic violence enacted against BIPOC in this country, to the extent that their fundamental physical needs are compromised. Death by cop is ALWAYS a factor, no matter one's standing. Note the recent viral video where Audubon-society birdwatcher, Harvard-graduate, award-winning movie producer Chris Cooper was threatened by a white woman in Central Park with murder by cop. Property is insured and replaceable. Black lives are not.

This above paragraph is assuming quite a bit. For one, I never said this instilled more horror to me than violence against black americans. The point I made wasn't "this is worse than George Floyd's murder and other cases like his", it was "this will undermine the message that the protest as a whole is trying to send and will be used as an excuse for more government intervention" because attacking stores and the like that didn't have anything to do with this doesn't garner sympathy from those more moderate. It would make some sense if the burning was kept to police stations and police cars, but they aren't.

And if this wasn't aimed at me in particular...why are you bringing this up?

If you are curious about what you can do but don't feel like you are able to donate to organizations like bail funds or Reclaim the Block, consider that even having the conversation about BLM with your family and friends can be a big deal in terms of correcting unspoken racial prejudices.

E: To clarify, while my post might come off as in some ways generally anti-cop/capitalist, this is NOT about the simple proletariat and VERY much about antiblackness in America, and capitalism/law enforcement are just two of the many tools baked into the arsenal of white supremacy.

I doubt it, considering I don't live in the US and neither do most of my family and friends. Seeing as said people are also diverse, I fail to see the need to bring this up. But maybe you can convince me otherwise. Maybe.

As for the last sentence...a bunch of claims on topics I didn't bring up and aren't backed up by anything in the post. I don't know why you're going here, but sure?

To respond to this with an actually(what I thought)good list of 5 reasons why people destroy stuff at riots as opposed to your one reason.
View attachment 251205
View attachment 251206
So I gotta say that I think at least some people out there are doing it for reason number one.(Which I find incredibly honorable) although there are some negative reasons why people do it as well

I already kind of adressed it earlier, but how does lashing out against those who weren't involved garner sympathy?


I will admit I'm not particularly informed on the subject, which is why I'm genuinely asking for sources.

 

[brightobject]

I was primarily responding to one sentence within your post, which is why I quoted that specifically? The rest of the post is responding to the generality of talking points I've been hearing getting thrown around regarding the topic. Not sure why you are so confused.

I doubt it, considering I don't live in the US and neither do most of my family and friends. Seeing as said people are also diverse, I fail to see the need to bring this up. But maybe you can convince me otherwise. Maybe.

Really not my job tbh. I'm glad you have diverse family and friends though!