Unpopular opinions

[Bakugames]

For real tho, while I can accept that Dexit was going to be necessary at some point, it sure as hell ain't now with them porting mon animations straight outta the 3DS.

thats fair, i honestly dont belive that dexit should have happened this gen, i just think pokemon fans have this unrealistic idea (when dont they) that gamefreak can just revamp everything and make an open world with all pokemon because "well they have the money lol"

theres a difference between demanding quality that we deserve (this IS a 60$ game) and thinking that just throwing money can solve every single problem and make everything possible. franchises with way bigger budgets and care that can barely port all their dudes when their rosters are in the 300s, there is absolutely no reason to belive that pokemon could bring 900 pokemon while also putting all these improvements in.

i just posted it here because, being completly honest, no matter if swsh was a fantastic game, people are too accostumed with pokemon always being avaliable, and many dont want to compromise losing pokemon (unless its only pokemon they dont like, of course!) for anything. swsh certainly didnt help with the popularity of the idea, though

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

They're not locked behind the DLC and we could stop spreading this lie.

Ok, ok, geez, no need to get feisty.

Yes, the mons themselves come with the update. As for Bank/Home, that's another fee, but theoretically, you can obtain said mons for free via all kinds of trades.

However, one must recognize that their availability is hurt by not purchasing the DLC.

thats fair, i honestly dont belive that dexit should have happened this gen, i just think pokemon fans have this unrealistic idea (when dont they) that gamefreak can just revamp everything and make an open world with all pokemon because "well they have the money lol"

theres a difference between demanding quality that we deserve (this IS a 60$ game) and thinking that just throwing money can solve every single problem and make everything possible. franchises with way bigger budgets and care that can barely port all their dudes when their rosters are in the 300s, there is absolutely no reason to belive that pokemon could bring 900 pokemon while also putting all these improvements in.

i just posted it here because, being completly honest, no matter if swsh was a fantastic game, people are too accostumed with pokemon always being avaliable, and many dont want to compromise losing pokemon (unless its only pokemon they dont like, of course!) for anything. swsh certainly didnt help with the popularity of the idea, though

Yeah, people go a bit too crazy on both extremes. I've heard people expect something like BotW for Pokémon, and that's completely absurd no matter how you slice it.

I believe that if Dexit was going to be implemented, it had to be on SwSh. However, while I'm pleased with certain baby steps GF took (The Wild Area being the most notable), the game looks... rough.

And I don't mean it on just a graphical standpoint, even though those textures are of very poor quality, but you still stumble on way too many places where optimization and polish are absent, boneheaded design decisions, evidence of cut corners, artifacts from previous gens muddying up everything...

It's a game with potential, but the problem is that it's another game "with potential". I'm not saying "throw money at the problem", even though manpower could cover some of these issues, but there's a need to focus more on polish.

For example, the textures I mentioned earlier. They're passable once you're distracted enough, but they're never good. This isn't a particularly demanding problem to fix. Modders had textures for the trees ready in... an hour!?

My word, this is more embarrassing than I remember. I kid you not.

Like, I don't even have words for this. How do you let this happen? Months of roasting over the trees looking like hot garbage and they didn't even bother working on that detail?

 

[Pikachu315111]

franchises with way bigger budgets and care that can barely port all their dudes when their rosters are in the 300s, there is absolutely no reason to belive that pokemon could bring 900 pokemon while also putting all these improvements in.

Well that right there is the problem, the improvements they did were very little. The biggest improvement that needed to be done was going over every Pokemon to see if they could improve their stats, movepool, Abilities, and in-battle animations (and evolution level in some cases). But they didn't, and that's the problem, the ONE reason people would have accepted Dexit and something that GF desperately needs to do for many older gen Pokemon and they didn't even do it. Thus why what they said for doing Dexit rings hollow. Heck, and that's not mentioning the decisions they made for the new Pokemon and the game itself (especially in the graphics department).

 

[Bakugames]

snip

i agree with u tbh. i dont care about graphics because i've never been a graphics person (i prefer stylization and colors over it) but the game is just rough.

i think the main thing that needs to happen is that the whole franchise needs to shift perspective. ever since the anime and merch outsold the games, they've become means to an end to something way more profitable. why bother spending money and giving this time when they can get a new anime arc, new pokemon to make merch and new products with the 1 year cycle we have rn? its scummy but its how shareholders and the ceos of all the three companies (gf, creatures and nintendo) see it.

i dont know what could incentivize the change, because financially, changing it to anything else is a stupid move. they've hit the sweet spot of what passes the mark as a pkmn game to sell and the fastest they can get new stuff out. quality would please fans, but would diminish profits.

man i hate capitalism can we go back to monky

snip 2 electric boogaloo

i agree, but my post was more about the fundamentals of a dex cut than the specific swsh one. its more in the veins of "swsh dexit had no reason to happen, but even if a game improved on every single way to justify it happening, people would still complain because stantler didnt make in"

 

[DrPumpkinz]

Yes, the mons themselves come with the update. As for Bank/Home, that's another fee, but theoretically, you can obtain said mons for free via all kinds of trades.

However, one must recognize that their availability is hurt by not purchasing the DLC.

And? How is having to trade or transfer for a Tornadus because you don't have Crown Tundra's Dynamax Adventures any different from having to do so because you don't have USUM's Ultra Space Wilds or ORAS's Mirage Spots?

This isn't a new phenomenon.

 

[Rarycaris]

And? How is having to trade or transfer for a Tornadus because you don't have Crown Tundra's Dynamax Adventures any different from having to do so because you don't have USUM's Ultra Space Wilds or ORAS's Mirage Spots?

This isn't a new phenomenon.

Or, for that matter, any of the generations from 2 to 5. For all people like to hold gen 6 as the point where the franchise first started to go downhill, it's the first generation where "you can catch every Pokemon within the current gen" became standard -- albeit largely as a side effect of GF trying to prune the accumulation of legacy moves and transfer requirements in official formats, but I think it's widely appreciated nonetheless.

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

The biggest improvement that needed to be done was going over every Pokemon to see if they could improve their stats, movepool, Abilities, and in-battle animations (and evolution level in some cases).

I'll be blunt. This is just unreasonable.

Sure, a couple of patches and revisions here and there are feasible, but still a herculean work. Trying to rebalance all mons just cannot happen. It was impossible as early as Gen 2. And trust me, I speak from experience on that front.

And? How is having to trade or transfer for a Tornadus because you don't have Crown Tundra's Dynamax Adventures any different from having to do so because you don't have USUM's Ultra Space Wilds or ORAS's Mirage Spots?

This isn't a new phenomenon.

Sadly it isn't. It's been kind of a recurring way to make money and stimulate trading. Has been since day 1.

The returning mons just make that list a lot bigger. I'd still take the DLC over a 3rd version anytime though. Much more consumer-friendly.

My point really just was "Returning mons are a way to entice people into buying the DLC." Not the only way. Or exclusively used for that, you can still trade for these mons. But walking around and capturing them? Not likely.

 

[Rarycaris]

I don't massively mind that "returning mons as an incentive to buy DLC" thing tbh, but a big reason for that is that online Dynamax Adventures remain fun for a surprisingly long time. I've caught most of the legendaries and I'm still nowhere close to bored of them.

 

[Pikachu315111]

Sure, a couple of patches and revisions here and there are feasible, but still a herculean work. Trying to rebalance all mons just cannot happen. It was impossible as early as Gen 2. And trust me, I speak from experience on that front.

Not improve all of them, most Pokemon honestly are good/okay, but there are a few dozen that could use a bigger push and there with a few select that could probably do with a redo.

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

I don't massively mind that "returning mons as an incentive to buy DLC" thing tbh, but a big reason for that is that online Dynamax Adventures remain fun for a surprisingly long time. I've caught most of the legendaries and I'm still nowhere close to bored of them.

Truth be told, me neither.

It doesn't even move the needle for me. Even when I compared IoA to CT in this thread (I think? Could've been the DLC one) I didn't even mention the returning mon selection.

I won't ignore that it is relevant for DLC marketing though. No one ever said "Garchomp is coming back in the 1.30 update!". People said "Garchomp is coming back in the Crown Tundra update!"

This keeps the product's name fresh on a consumer's mind, it's a solid marketing strat. Nothing wrong or evil with it.

 

[DreamPrince]

I wouldn't be so sure about this one.

In the end "dexit" happened because for <reasons> GF wasn't able to port the get the new Camp and Dynamax animations done in time (absolutely nothing to do with models).
They threw a bunch of disorganized lies once they saw how bad the reception of the fact not all Pokemon were going to be available right away, but fact is, they had the models futureproofed ages ago and what they really needed time to make were the new animations (which to be fair, are pretty solid, just a shame they're really rarely seen).

However, slowly but surely every Pokemon is getting added to the game, so it isn't exactly unrealistic that future Switch games will just be featuring all of them.

Really? I could have sworn most of the camp animations seem to have been reused from Refresh which came from Amie, as well as the walking animations seem to be the same from the unused animations from SM.

They're not locked behind the DLC and we could stop spreading this lie.
Moreso once gen 8.5 or 9 happen and you're not even going to need the old Bank sub to pass them over.
Gen 8 even added the "Battle ready mark", meaning that after you caught the legendary once, in any game, it's going to be able to be used in any future game assuming the mechanic is maintained.

If they wanted to "make money off the returning mons", they wouldn't have given the pokedex upgrade for free to everyone, nor made a mechanic that basically removes the need to buy multiple titles in future.


They said it amongst all the other disorganized stuff that was being told, which also included that SwSh would never have got the missing ones.

The reality is that when Masuda tried to sneak the "Only 400 available" at the press event, the already lacking PR system of GameFreaks panicked seeing the horrible reaction they caused, and started giving a million different incoherent replies.
Including the most "hilarious" one, that they were being cut "for balance reasons", which kinda crumbled in the light of both the pokemon picked in the "400", including lord and savior 97% competitive usage Incineroar (higher than even Xerneas), and the simple fact gen 8 is featuring some of the biggest powercreep in the series to begin with.

The Pokémon perhaps not, but a lot of other aspects are locked behind a paywall to a degree. The IOA move tutors for example, or the Ability Patch in CT. While they aren’t strictly behind a paywall, it you don’t have the DLC, you have to arrange to teach these moves through trades, which is a hassle. And the moves and Abillity Patch are huge for competitive play, so those who don’t have the DLC are at a disadvantage.

And lastly, while the Pokémon themselves are free, some of them can’t actually evolve without the DLC. For example, Seadra can’t evolve without the DLC, and Kubfu can’t evolve without the Towers, and Porygon line is probably the worst offender, since both their items can’t be obtained without the DLCor trading without the DLC.

Calyrex’s formes are the only strictly paid Pokémon. The Reins of Unity cannot be traded due to being a key item.

And if Dexit really was unintentional, I wonder if they’ll add a patch to add the remaining Pokémon? They’ve shown to do that with the DLC, adding Pokémon back into the game.

Never been too hot on Salamence like some other people are. I don't hate it per se, it just feels like a more boring Dragonite in every way. Dragonite is a cute, friendly chubby dragon, Salamence is generic winged quadruped. Dragonite has a cool movepool full of unique options, Salamence gets little beyond the most bog-standard coverage for Dragons like Flamethrower and Earthquake. Dragonite has the almost one-of-a-kind Multiscale only shared with Lugia, Salamence has the insanely overused Intimidate + Moxie combo. It's just really lame to me, man

I think my biggest issue with Salamence compared to Dragonite is that they are too similar. Both are Psuedo Legendaries that evolve from pure Dragons into Flying Dragons, and are used by final member of Elite 4s.

There stats is what I dislike the most though. They are too similar. Salamence literally has 1 pt higher attack, while having slightly higher Special Attack while being very fast. Dragonite has higher Defensive stats in contrast to Salamence. It really does feel like GF tried to replace Dragonite in Hoenn.

Speaking of Dragonite, I always found it odd that it’s Atrack is higher than Sp. Atk, I mean it has Hurricane, Draco Meteor, Flamethrower, Thundebolt, Surf, and Ice Beam, but it’s Attack stat is so much higher than Sp. Atk. I just think it’s a waste since most Dragonite prefer to be physical.

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

Really? I could have sworn most of the camp animations seem to have been reused from Refresh which came from Amie, as well as the walking animations seem to be the same from the unused animations from SM.

The Pokémon perhaps not, but a lot of other aspects are locked behind a paywall to a degree. The IOA move tutors for example, or the Ability Patch in CT. While they aren’t strictly behind a paywall, it you don’t have the DLC, you have to arrange to teach these moves through trades, which is a hassle. And the moves and Abillity Patch are huge for competitive play, so those who don’t have the DLC are at a disadvantage.

And lastly, while the Pokémon themselves are free, some of them can’t actually evolve without the DLC. For example, Seadra can’t evolve without the DLC, and Kubfu can’t evolve without the Towers, and Porygon line is probably the worst offender, since both their items can’t be obtained without the DLCor trading without the DLC.

Calyrex’s formes are the only strictly paid Pokémon. The Reins of Unity cannot be traded due to being a key item.

And if Dexit really was unintentional, I wonder if they’ll add a patch to add the remaining Pokémon? They’ve shown to do that with the DLC, adding Pokémon back into the game.

I think my biggest issue with Salamence compared to Dragonite is that they are too similar. Both are Psuedo Legendaries that evolve from pure Dragons into Flying Dragons, and are used by final member of Elite 4s.

There stats is what I dislike the most though. They are too similar. Salamence literally has 1 pt higher attack, while having slightly higher Special Attack while being very fast. Dragonite has higher Defensive stats in contrast to Dragonite. It really does feel like GF tried to replace Dragonite in Hoenn.

Speaking of Dragonite, I always found it odd that it’s Atrack is higher than Sp. Atk, I mean it has Hurricane, Draco Meteor, Flamethrower, Thundebolt, Surf, and Ice Beam, but it’s Attack stat is so much higher than Sp. Atk. I just think it’s a waste since most Dragonite prefer to be physical.

And honestly, DNite doesn't really look like a physically imposing threat. If its SpA and Atk were swapped, I'd have no problems with that mon.

I wonder if all that Attack was just to pump up Lance's Hyper Beam spam in RBY...

 

[hypno28]

It's semantics, I guess, but the "National Pokedex" was cut in Gen 7, not 8. (And that's probably a good thing if they're not going to rename it to something less absurd and rework it so the classification of things doesn't just so happen to match the order in which things appeared in the games.) The actual Pokemon were cut in Gen 8.

 

[didls]

I wonder if all that Attack was just to pump up Lance's Hyper Beam spam in RBY...

Probably. I feel like a lot of design choices in RBY were done with story progression in mind, like Onix serving as a threatening early-game "boss", but having less attack than a Geodude. They didn't have metagaming in mind then, and that's definitely part of the appeal of RBY and GSC.

That said, I wish Hyper Beam still had its Gen 1 mechanics. It's pretty much just a joke move at this point. It's only ever used in 1v1 (lol) and was used in early DP because of Porygon-Z. I don't think it would be overpowered, or at least, not as overpowered as some of the shit they've done since.

 

[Ironmage]

Probably. I feel like a lot of design choices in RBY were done with story progression in mind, like Onix serving as a threatening early-game "boss", but having less attack than a Geodude. They didn't have metagaming in mind then, and that's definitely part of the appeal of RBY and GSC.

I think the big thing here is that the AI just didn't use TM moves in gen 1. Dragonite has always had very good special coverage, but every attack it learned by level-up was physical (or Dragon Rage).

 

[didls]

I think the big thing here is that the AI just didn't use TM moves in gen 1. Dragonite has always had very good special coverage, but every attack it learned by level-up was physical (or Dragon Rage).

True, but I don't think it's a coincidence that all of Lance's Pokémon have Hyper Beam, and Hyper Beam isn't used by any trainers you battle prior to Lance.

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

Probably. I feel like a lot of design choices in RBY were done with story progression in mind, like Onix serving as a threatening early-game "boss", but having less attack than a Geodude. They didn't have metagaming in mind then, and that's definitely part of the appeal of RBY and GSC.

Exactly. There's evidence of that all over RBY.

For example, Vileplume being straight up "Venusaur, but worse". It was very obviously intended to be a replacement for Bulbasaur in case people picked another starter.
The evo level requirement for the Dratini family is another one. It's very much intended to be a special mon that you need to put a great deal of effort into both getting it and training it, with the result being the only Dragon-type in the game.
Fearow and Dodrio is another great one with Dodrio being outright superior but coming much, much later than Spearow.

Of course, this is not only something that happens every game, but also backfires as well.
See: The evo level requirements for half of Unova's mons and Noibat being pushed as an early Dragon-type since Gen 7 but being rendered unviable every time because of its pathetic stats and high evolution level.

This is something that Game Freak could work on fixing. Some evolution methods just need work and some mons that used to be found at high-level encounters (Like Noibat, Rufflet, and Vullaby) but aren't anymore need adjustments and it's very obvious that they need help because they were crammed early-game by devs, so it's hard to not notice such an obvious problem.


We could fill a whole thread with this kind of small, reasonable adjustments.

 

[Codraroll]

We could fill a whole thread with this kind of small, reasonable adjustments.

I believe we have.

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

I believe we have.

Nah, I was referring to actual adjustments in base stats, movepool, evo methods and the like.

But I digress, we're getting off-topic.

 

[BlueRay]

Exactly. There's evidence of that all over RBY.

For example, Vileplume being straight up "Venusaur, but worse". It was very obviously intended to be a replacement for Bulbasaur in case people picked another starter.
The evo level requirement for the Dratini family is another one. It's very much intended to be a special mon that you need to put a great deal of effort into both getting it and training it, with the result being the only Dragon-type in the game.
Fearow and Dodrio is another great one with Dodrio being outright superior but coming much, much later than Spearow.

Of course, this is not only something that happens every game, but also backfires as well.
See: The evo level requirements for half of Unova's mons and Noibat being pushed as an early Dragon-type since Gen 7 but being rendered unviable every time because of its pathetic stats and high evolution level.

This is something that Game Freak could work on fixing. Some evolution methods just need work and some mons that used to be found at high-level encounters (Like Noibat, Rufflet, and Vullaby) but aren't anymore need adjustments and it's very obvious that they need help because they were crammed early-game by devs, so it's hard to not notice such an obvious problem.


We could fill a whole thread with this kind of small, reasonable adjustments.

Well, Game Freak often seems to take one step at a time. Things like Ability Capsule, Bottle Cap, or the nature Mints were all first introduced in their respective generations. Probably to keep things interesting or sth. to look forward to.
This generation, you can now evolve Pkm like Magnezone with a Thunder Stone, so here's hoping they'll find some new ways to solve the evolution issue for some Pkm like Rufflet, etc.

 

[Worldie]

Well, Game Freak often seems to take one step at a time. Things like Ability Capsule, Bottle Cap, or the nature Mints were all first introduced in their respective generations. Probably to keep things interesting or sth. to look forward to.
This generation, you can now evolve Pkm like Magnezone with a Thunder Stone, so here's hoping they'll find some new ways to solve the evolution issue for some Pkm like Rufflet, etc.

This is also the generation where several of the formerly trade-only evo are catchable in the wild so you never know...

 

[Codraroll]

This is also the generation where several of the formerly trade-only evo are catchable in the wild so you never know...

After seeing Steelix in the wild in Gen IV I harboured similar hopes, but sadly, it was not to be.

 

[Pikachu315111]

Nah, I was referring to actual adjustments in base stats, movepool, evo methods and the like.

Sadly that would probably fall into wishlisting. While we tip toe around that in the (Little) Things That Annoy you thread, an entire thread dedicated to it would easily fall into everyone suggesting their fixes and even possibly cause argument on who's fix is better (I would like to think we wouldn't and be perfectly civil and respectable, though if we aren't it's a mess the mods probably don't want to clean-up). I myself got a few Notepad files of suggestions (not many for stat changes, but I do have for Moves, Abilities, Evo Methods, and many other things here and there), and even I know some things in there are going to some people the wrong way. :P

This generation, you can now evolve Pkm like Magnezone with a Thunder Stone, so here's hoping they'll find some new ways to solve the evolution issue for some Pkm like Rufflet, etc.

For Rufflet and the like you just gotta lower the evo level. I even listed my ideas of levels in the annoyance thread:

Something like this:
Vanillite/Kling/Tynamo/Axew/Noibat/Dreepy: 25
Vanillish/Klang/Fraxure/Larvesta: 45
(Mienfoo/Pawniard/Deino: 35)
Zweilous/Drakloak: 55
Rufflet/Vullaby/Skrelp: 40

EDIT: On second though, I think Rufflet, Vullaby, and Skrelp would do better at Level 35 along with Mienfoo, Panwiard, and Deino.

Rufflet/Vullaby/Mienfoo/Pawniard/Deino/Skrelp: 35

Some additions mentioned later on:

Litwick and Sandyghast make sense also at 25. Elgyem & Frillish I feel would be good at 30.

 

[Codraroll]

an entire thread dedicated to [wishlisting] would easily fall into everyone suggesting their fixes and even possibly cause argument on who's fix is better

I think it's optimistic to even assume people would bother commenting on other people's wishlists instead of just rattling off their own. It'd be all rambling and zero discussion.

 

[pokemon4eva]

thats fair, i honestly dont belive that dexit should have happened this gen, i just think pokemon fans have this unrealistic idea (when dont they) that gamefreak can just revamp everything and make an open world with all pokemon because "well they have the money lol"

theres a difference between demanding quality that we deserve (this IS a 60$ game) and thinking that just throwing money can solve every single problem and make everything possible. franchises with way bigger budgets and care that can barely port all their dudes when their rosters are in the 300s, there is absolutely no reason to belive that pokemon could bring 900 pokemon while also putting all these improvements in.

i just posted it here because, being completly honest, no matter if swsh was a fantastic game, people are too accostumed with pokemon always being avaliable, and many dont want to compromise losing pokemon (unless its only pokemon they dont like, of course!) for anything. swsh certainly didnt help with the popularity of the idea, though

Indeed. Someone on facebook posted about the Pokemon SwSh beta leak and I commented that the game looked very unfinished for that state which is why explains Dexit, and people got mad at me lol, their counterargument "Game Freak has the money". Those guys were totally convinced that GF intentionally cut content so they can sell it back with DLC, of course, most of them forgetting (or choosing to ignore...) that the returning mons are updated free. The proof for the rushed and troubled development was right there, and they call me the blind sheep.