Project OM Mashup Megathread

[GrantMJC]

Regieleki set I've been playing with:

Regieleki @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bolt Strike
- Facade
- Volt Switch
- Rapid Spin/Extreme Speed

This Regieleki set can overcome its crippling weakness of bad coverage by making use of facade. A 140BP Guts boosted Facade can deal a ton of damage to the ground and grass types that usually give Regieleki trouble. Anything that doesn't resist electric gets outright OHKOed by Bolt Strike. Volt Switch of course allows Regieleki pivot, and allows it to be useful even when Flame Orb has not been activated. Rapid Spin or Extreme Speed can be used in the last slot to either remove hazards or pick off weakened mons that use Choice Scarf or priority moves. Obviously Regieleki's 200 base speed makes it a fantastic cleaner, and the damage boost from Guts allows it to be even more potent.

This set seemingly fits best on volt-turn teams since Regieleki can fire off fast Volt Switches (or Facades if you predict a ground type coming in) to keep up momentum, while slower pivots can bring Regieleki in at the end of a turn in order to activate Flame Orb. Breaking down ground and grass types with chip damage at be hugely beneficial at allowing Regieleki to clean.

 

[fabwooloo]

As you all may remember the second cycle has just ended, congratulations to Dylanronpa, MenaceMatik, Don vascus and PokaPK for being the top 4 users on the leaderboard!

the four users will face off in a bo3, Matchups are:

Dylanronpa vs Don Vascus
Menace Matik vs PokaPK

The OMMS are:
Tier Shift Almost Any Ability
Ubers Almost Any Ability
STAAABmons
STABmons Mix and Mega
CAAAMomons

Player on the left picks a meta that will be played. Player on the right picks another meta and bans a third meta. Player on the left bans a meta. The remaining meta is played for G1. The next meta is picked by the loser.

Winners face off against eachother in a bo3 for the room prize winner rank

Good luck to everyone in the tournament!

 

[The Number Man]

As you all may remember the second cycle has just ended, congratulations to Dylanronpa, MenaceMatik, Don vascus and PokaPK for being the top 4 users on the leaderboard!
View attachment 296796
the four users will face off in a bo3, Matchups are:

Dylanronpa vs Don Vascus
Menace Matik vs PokaPK

The OMMS are:
Tier Shift Almost Any Ability
Ubers Almost Any Ability
STAAABmons
STABmons Mix and Mega
CAAAMomons

Player on the left picks a meta that will be played. Player on the right picks another meta and bans a third meta. Player on the left bans a meta. The remaining meta is played for G1. The next meta is picked by the loser.

Winners face off against eachother in a bo3 for the room prize winner rank

Good luck to everyone in the tournament!

Dylanronpa
Don Vascus
Menace17
PokaPK

Thanks to youngsterjoeyv69 for offering to host! Winner also gets a discord role.

 

[justideas]

There didn't seem to be a separate thread for this month's OM StAAAbmons? So I guess I'm posting my team here.

I reached roughly 1400~ points (Top 10 on the ladder, currently no16 after a loss) with this team with back-to-back wins and I was really impressed with how few teams were able to counter me, with the exception of dazzling/majestic

It's always hard to tell in an early OM, but the team seems super solid and not only that, but it can be extremely fun to play with. Here's the paste:

Paste: StAAAbmons, trap and sweep balance

Salamence @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Ascent
- Dragon Darts
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake

Rhyperior @ Babiri Berry
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Accelerock
- Thousand Waves
- Diamond Storm
- Shore Up

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 Def / 252 SpD
Impish Nature
- Anchor Shot
- Grav Apple
- Strength Sap
- Stealth Rock

Gengar @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shell Side Arm
- Astral Barrage
- Focus Blast
- Trick

Togekiss @ Life Orb
Ability: Triage
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Draining Kiss
- Oblivion Wing
- Aura Sphere

Rotom-Heat @ Focus Sash
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blizzard
- Nasty Plot
- Zap Cannon
- Inferno

Team Summary

So you might be wondering, how does Rotom-Heat have blizzard? Well, by glitch or design, the Rotom forms have access to all of their form typings. This means that Rotom can access every GRASS, ICE, FIRE, WATER, GHOST, FLYING AND ELECTRIC type move. That's right. Rotom is low-key broken and no one seems to have noticed....
Rotom is the lead for this team. People regularly underestimate this guy at their own peril, with it often getting 2 kills in the first few turns. Zap cannon is basically the go-to-move and the most powerful at 120bp. Always press it first, unless you know you can OHKO with the other moves. With nasty plot and para, you'll find yourself breaking through even the fattest of Chanseys. The only times when you might decide to avoid leading with him is when you know your opponent has a surging strikes mon, or a skill link garchomp lead, and even then Garchomp's seem to be addicted to swords dancing in your face before you throw the north pole at them.


Your basic triage set, which oddly enough, finally makes the TogeKISS name make sense to me. With 120 Base special attack, oblivion wing will hit like a truck and with a little bit of chip, you'll find yourself dropping your opponent's pokemon with ease. One of the best parts about Togekiss over something like a triage Zapdos or Buzzwole is the fact that it is practically un-wallable due the fact it gets both nasty plot for sweeping, and incredible coverage with fighting/fire moves. Aura sphere will 2hko Heatrans and Ferrothorns that might have otherwise stopped you in your tracks. This is the late game sweeper, but it's also supremely easy to use it early and make early predictions, getting chip on Heatran, nasty plotting on the switch, etc.


It seems every in OM, regardless of the changes, Gengar finds itself running dual stab with a scarf. With the recent DLC moves and removal of pursuit, it has never been better and likely never will be. Shell side arm gives you a move that stops special walls like Blissey (also punishing offence mons with lower def stats) and adaptability Astral barrage is a move that reliably OHKOs neutral offence when you have stealth rocks up. Some relevant calcs for this meta include:
252 SpA Adaptability Gengar Astral Barrage vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Urshifu-Rapid-Strike: 394-464 (115.5 - 136%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Adaptability Gengar Shell Side Arm vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Weavile: 226-266 (80.4 - 94.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Beyond Steel and normal immunities (Which you have focus blast for), there's nothing that can reliably take an Astral Barrage and live the next hit.
252 SpA Adaptability Gengar Astral Barrage vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Magearna: 188-222 (51.6 - 60.9%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery


Flash fire/Ferro is definitely an overused combination, but what makes this set particularly dangerous is the fact that unlike a body press set, or a leech seed set, nothing really counters it effectively. Anchor shot traps them (basically guaranteeing kills if they don't switch to a counter), strength sap heals you and weakens them, and grav apple allows you to defeat nearly any pokemon over time. Most fire types are off the table, fighting types can be sapped of HP and Att, Steel, Bug and Grass types can be whittled by defence and attack drops. Every time i use it, this meme pops in my head "I'm not trapped in here with you. You're trapped in here with me!"
It really can't be ignored that every stat drop this pokemon gets, helps you set up or revenge kill. That's arguably the greatest strength of this set, even when you lose (say the opponent switches into a mold breaker victini or you hit their fire type with a defence drop for your accelrock), you seem to get an advantage from it.


This is kind of the black horse of the team. No one ever really seems to know what it's about to do, not even me. Sometimes it just get OHKOd by a water type move or i sack it early, other times it gets boosted by the combination of grass type moves and Diamond storm, becoming an unbeatable force. I can't help myself but change the item every few games, or temporarily use water absorb, but it never works. It seems that when i have my Babiri berry, there's no steel types and when i have my Shuca or Chople berry, there are no ground/fighting types. In any case, a healing Rhyperior with priority and grass type immunity? You'll definitely find a use for it, beat down a heatran that thought it would OHKO, or a ferrothorn that thought it walled you. It's not as vital to the team as other members, and yet it occasionally becomes the MVP, with accelrock being especially handy and not many opponent's predicting it.


So yeah, i just made a rip-off Dragonite, that's all... It's incredible what difference that 20+ base speed stat will help you accomplish. Add reliable flying and dragon stab? Well there's not much this thing won't solve for you. It lacks the bulk that Dragonite seems to have, so roost isn't usually useful, but you'll find with multi-scale you live every non-ice type move, and probably OHKO back with dragon ascent. Dragon dance is often just an optional accessory, like his stylish $300 hiking boots which he wears everywhere he goes. Seriously, if you ever wanted to get in the market for making boots for birds and dragons, now is the time.

I hope you guys enjoy the team!

Now go. Build your counter-teams and befriend a majestic so that i may never use my team with any success in StAAAbmons ever again.

 

[The Number Man]

TS AAA spotlight is over. Vote for the next one in the voting channel of our discord.
The eligible metas are:

Natdex STABmons

STAB n Mega

Camomons Alphabet Cup

STABmons Alphabet Cup


Voting ends Tuesday 23:59PM GMT+1.

 

[Byleth]

Been a few days of STAAAB ladder (yay) and I've finally been playing other things outside of my obnoxious trick room team in OM Mashups room tours and came across discussion of this briefly, in which it actually seems really decent to where I tested it out.


Latias (F) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Clangorous Soul
- Stored Power
- Aura Sphere
- Recover

Now you may be asking, why on earth are you using latias over latios in STAAAB and why hp investment on a booster? This specific set focuses on latias's slightly better bulk, enabling it to switch in and set up on more targets while staying healthy with poison heal to use clangorous soul over and over and regain health really easily. What makes latias different from other clangorous soul users is that it has stored power, allowing you to jump the power of it after a few boosts without the need of special attack investment (120 BP after one clang soul, 220 BP after two, etc). This combined with the increased bulk clangorous soul also gives makes latias challenging to revenge kill late game. Aura sphere is mainly to ohko weavile which is really popular and will never go away with its balanced glacial lance /s, but it also hits other dark types which would otherwise completely wall it. Recover is my way preferred option over protect, since oftentimes you'll be fast enough to just recover off hits which in conjunction with poison heal allows more opportunities to set up. Poison heal is used to prevent crippling from the likes of status pokes, making them an unreliable answer to crippling lati while giving it excellent passive recovery.

As far as potential checks and counters, unaware magearna is a big one I've come across, preventing you from doing any meaningful damage once it comes in and overrides your boosts with its own. Prankster pex also counters at any time so make sure these threats are removed before attempting to sweep. Blissey and chansey packing skill swap or whirlwind will also easily dispatch of lati's limited amount of boosts, although blissey will be overwhelmed if it doesn't come in before +2.

+2 0 SpA Latias Stored Power (220 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 394-465 (55.1 - 65.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Priority users become sorta iffy, in which mons such as buzzwole can attempt to revenge it if it's weakened, but more often than not lati will be at +2 due to them not wanting to switch in immediately not knowing the set immediately and this is where they crumble if lati is played carefully and kept healthy.

252+ Atk Life Orb Buzzwole Leech Life vs. +1 252 HP / 4 Def Latias: 315-374 (86.5 - 102.7%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Buzzwole Leech Life vs. +2 252 HP / 4 Def Latias: 237-281 (65.1 - 77.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Togekiss can use nasty plot to double it's special attack allowing it to revenge a weakened lati at even +2, but lati will just ohko at +2 all stats with stored power if it's healthy.

+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Triage Togekiss Draining Kiss vs. +2 252 HP / 0 SpD Latias: 174-211 (47.8 - 57.9%) -- 92.6% chance to 2HKO
+2 0 SpA Latias Stored Power (220 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Togekiss: 454-535 (121.3 - 143%) -- guaranteed OHKO

And gale wings lando...

252 Atk Choice Band Gale Wings Landorus-Therian Dragon Ascent vs. +1 252 HP / 4 Def Latias: 255-301 (70 - 82.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Gale Wings Landorus-Therian Dragon Ascent vs. +2 252 HP / 4 Def Latias: 192-226 (52.7 - 62%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

It is worth mentioning that this set is almost exclusively reserved for late game sweeping, as clangorous soul has a limited amount of pp and getting checked early results in it not being able to switch in and boost as much later but you can still use it as a check due to poison heal and natural bulk. Overall, the point of this post is to share a really cool mon, and I hope to see it used more because atm it's just specs/scarf latios spam with dmaw and psysurge.

 

[crow crumbs]

staaab has very quickly become my favorite om, imo the only meta thats come close to giving this level of freedom is mnm. i would love to see staaab become a permanent ladder since unlike a lot of other monthly metas ive played, it seems like theres a ton of room for development here. anyway heres some sets i have had success with recently:

serene grace cinderace

Cinderace @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Taunt
- Court Change
- U-turn

explanation

court change is the main reason to use this mon, allowing both hazards and removal in 1 slot. unboosted sacred fire still does serviceable damage and spreading burns can alleviate pressure on setup sweepers/defensive cores + provide some noticeable chip. i run 252 hp just to generally improve longevity but running an offensive spread would also work well (you could also run regen/deso land with pyro ball). its pretty easy to wear down so it can be a bit of a struggle if its your only check to certain mag variations for example but ace offers a very nifty amount of role compression that you cant find on any other mon in the meta.

av pert

Swampert @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Steam Eruption
- Precipice Blades
- Ice Punch
- Flip Turn

explanation

im only posting this since its not on the setpedia for some reason. av pert is a great glue mon that can check most special attackers, notably gengar, ghost horse, non-levitate gearna, volcanion, heatran. pblades is run bc grassy terrain exists.

restochesto cobalion

Cobalion @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Dauntless Shield
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Body Press
- Volt Switch
- Rest
- Stealth Rock

explanation

pretty self-explanatory set, cobalions 2 biggest issues are that its easily worn down (i dont like regen on it) and being burned kills any hope it has of doing anything useful, restochesto helps with both of these issues. moveset/spread is pretty customizable to whatever the team needs

 

[Dylanronpa]

Don gave me the win youngsterjoeyv69

 

[Tranquility]

STAAABMons is suspecting Magearna.

 

[anaconja]

Some mons that have been overlooked on the STAAABMons VR:

Celesteela @ Shed Shell
Ability: Volt Absorb / Flash Fire / Dauntless Shield / Thick Fat
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD (or 248 HP / 196 Def / 64 SpD)
Relaxed Nature
- Anchor Shot / Heavy Slam
- Flamethrower / Defog / Oblivion Wing
- Earthquake / Defog / Oblivion Wing
- Roost

Celesteela is a Corviknight that trades U-Turn for much higher Special Defense and less passivity, allowing it to do funny things like trap and eliminate defensive Magearna.


Rotom-Wash @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy / Calm Nature
- Volt Switch
- Scald
- Spectral Thief
- Ice Beam

Honestly don't know why more people aren't using this, it cteams the shit out of any special setup user that can't hit it SE (especially those annoying ass Triage mons). Rotom-Heat is also an option if you want to resist Moonblast too but keep in mind that it's weak to rocks.


Kommo-o @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Core Enforcer
- Body Press
- Stealth Rock
- Protect

Defensive Kommo-O is pretty good cause you have a strong Body Press and Core Enforcer to remove Poison Heal. It's a great check to Victini and if you throw some more EVs into SpD it's a solid Volcanion check too. Just keep it away from Tapu Finis and stuff.


Umbreon @ Leftovers / Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Unaware / Misty Surge / Regenerator / idk
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Rapid Spin / Court Change
- Soft-Boiled
- Whirlwind / Toxic / Foul Play

Umbreon is cool because it beats Stored Power and Psychic Surge stuff without being like Chansey-level passive. Its Dark STAB helps it a lot with spinning, or you could use Court Change while using Knock Off to remove HDBs from the opponent.


dimrah pumpkin (Gourgeist-Super) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Spectral Thief
- Power Whip
- Spiky Shield / Strength Sap
- Will-O-Wisp

Definitely lower in viability but definitely an option, Gourgeist is a great physical Electric and Ground spinblocker (I ran into a few physical Regielekis recently so it's pretty considerable). It also has Spectral Thief (this time STAB and off a good Attack stat) and STAB Power Whip, allowing it to check PH Suicune and Tapu Fini.


r/dababy (Type: Null) @ Eviolite
Ability: Regenerator / Dauntless Shield / Magic Bounce / Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD or 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Sassy / Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Rapid Spin / Court Change
- Glare / Toxic
- Slack Off
- U-turn

yo this dude just comes in and leaves

And also a nom:
Tapu Fini -> A+ Regen Fini is bonkers man, you just shrug off any attacks from Buzzwole/Weavile and it's a fantastic defensive pivot with Haze and Flip Turn.

 

[Roldski32]

Congrats to Ainzcrad for winning the AAA Uber Swiss Tour. Here is the overall usage stat of the tour:
Top 10s

Crown Tundra AAA Uber Swiss Tours Overall Usage Stats
+ ---- + --------------------- + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon               | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + --------------------- + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Yveltal               |   81 |  73.64% |  51.85% |
| 2    | Necrozma-Dusk-Mane    |   78 |  70.91% |  52.56% |
| 3    | Xerneas               |   53 |  48.18% |  60.38% |
| 4    | Calyrex-Shadow        |   38 |  34.55% |  44.74% |
| 4    | Ho-Oh                 |   38 |  34.55% |  50.00% |
| 6    | Kyogre                |   37 |  33.64% |  45.95% |
| 7    | Rayquaza              |   27 |  24.55% |  44.44% |
| 8    | Eternatus             |   25 |  22.73% |  52.00% |
| 9    | Urshifu-Single-Strike |   24 |  21.82% |  70.83% |
| 10   | Marshadow             |   22 |  20.00% |  59.09% |
| 10   | Zacian-Crowned        |   22 |  20.00% |  22.73% |
| 12   | Groudon               |   17 |  15.45% |  41.18% |
| 13   | Mewtwo                |   16 |  14.55% |  56.25% |
| 14   | Regigigas             |   15 |  13.64% |  33.33% |
| 15   | Zekrom                |   14 |  12.73% |  57.14% |
| 16   | Giratina              |   13 |  11.82% |  61.54% |
| 17   | Reshiram              |   11 |  10.00% |  54.55% |
| 18   | Dialga                |   10 |   9.09% |  40.00% |
| 19   | Chansey               |    9 |   8.18% |  77.78% |
| 19   | Palkia                |    9 |   8.18% |  66.67% |
| 21   | Calyrex-Ice           |    8 |   7.27% |  37.50% |
| 21   | Corviknight           |    8 |   7.27% |  75.00% |
| 21   | Lunala                |    8 |   7.27% |  25.00% |
| 21   | Ribombee              |    8 |   7.27% |  50.00% |
| 25   | Ferrothorn            |    7 |   6.36% |  57.14% |
| 26   | Aerodactyl            |    4 |   3.64% |  75.00% |
| 26   | Genesect              |    4 |   3.64% |  50.00% |
| 26   | Kyurem-Black          |    4 |   3.64% |  25.00% |
| 26   | Mew                   |    4 |   3.64% |  50.00% |
| 26   | Regieleki             |    4 |   3.64% |  50.00% |
| 26   | Solgaleo              |    4 |   3.64% |   0.00% |
| 32   | Kyurem-White          |    3 |   2.73% |  33.33% |
| 32   | Mandibuzz             |    3 |   2.73% |  33.33% |
| 32   | Porygon2              |    3 |   2.73% |  66.67% |
| 32   | Tapu Fini             |    3 |   2.73% |  66.67% |
| 36   | Blissey               |    2 |   1.82% |  50.00% |
| 36   | Dracovish             |    2 |   1.82% |   0.00% |
| 36   | Giratina-Origin       |    2 |   1.82% |  50.00% |
| 36   | Kartana               |    2 |   1.82% |  50.00% |
| 36   | Melmetal              |    2 |   1.82% |   0.00% |
| 36   | Nihilego              |    2 |   1.82% |  50.00% |
| 36   | Zygarde               |    2 |   1.82% |  50.00% |
| 43   | Blacephalon           |    1 |   0.91% |   0.00% |
| 43   | Cinderace             |    1 |   0.91% |   0.00% |
| 43   | Dragapult             |    1 |   0.91% |   0.00% |
| 43   | Excadrill             |    1 |   0.91% |   0.00% |
| 43   | Magearna              |    1 |   0.91% |   0.00% |
| 43   | Necrozma-Dawn-Wings   |    1 |   0.91% |   0.00% |
| 43   | Stakataka             |    1 |   0.91% |   0.00% |
| 43   | Skarmory              |    1 |   0.91% | 100.00% |
| 43   | Tyranitar             |    1 |   0.91% |   0.00% |
| 43   | Vaporeon              |    1 |   0.91% |   0.00% |
| 43   | Zacian                |    1 |   0.91% | 100.00% |
| 43   | Zapdos-Galar          |    1 |   0.91% |   0.00% |

Only a short thought on the tour because i forgot to make one.

Strong and one of the fastest unboosted pokemon, and the root source behind a huge usage of RegenVest Yveltal.
Sniper Wicked Blow is still hard to switch into, with defensive Poison Heal Xerneas being only one of few safe switch-ins to it. 97 Speed does leave it vulnerable to faster mons.
honestly, i was surprised this gets a lot of usage. Rain boosted Spout is strong in a tier with no Pdon, although there's been few DesoLand users appeared such as Reshiram. Other Kyogre set have been used too such as Poison Heal CM.
Zac-C has super low win rate...

 

[drfrankenbaum]

Rotom-Wash @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy / Calm Nature
- Volt Switch
- Scald
- Spectral Thief
- Ice Beam

Honestly don't know why more people aren't using this, it cteams the shit out of any special setup user that can't hit it SE (especially those annoying ass Triage mons). Rotom-Heat is also an option if you want to resist Moonblast too but keep in mind that it's weak to rocks.

forgive me if im missing an obvious rule(very likely what is occurring), but how is that rotomW learning ice beam?

 

[Tmi489]

forgive me if im missing an obvious rule(very likely what is occurring), but how is that rotomW learning ice beam?

If a pokemon can switch formes/types out of battle, then it has access to those moves. Rotom gets access to ghost/fire/water/grass/electric/ice/flying on any forme. I don't think rotom is good however; too low bulk, offenses, and speed (bst in general) make it hit weak especially with Chansey existing. Volcanion is more effective as a coverage special attacker

 

[anaconja]

If a pokemon can switch formes/types out of battle, then it has access to those moves. Rotom gets access to ghost/fire/water/grass/electric/ice/flying on any forme. I don't think rotom is good however; too low bulk, offenses, and speed (bst in general) make it hit weak especially with Chansey existing. Volcanion is more effective as a coverage special attacker

Rotom's bulk is enough to take hits from Tornadus, Togekiss, Magearna, and other special attackers, though. Its (very important) niche is resisting Flying and having access to Spectral Thief, allowing it to effectively counter Triage (except that one time some dude critted a +2 Focus Blast). Its offenses, while low, are usually enough to KO or cripple offensive mons. It's not like Volcanion fares much better against Chansey, either.

 

[The Number Man]

OM Mashups staff has decided to host 3 suspect tours to let people who don't have time to ladder try for reqs. We will host a tour on the following days (details will be edited into this post as they get worked out):

Wednesday, December 9th after the Daily tour in OM Mashups (daily happens at 6PM GMT+2 so between 6:30 and 7PM GMT+2) - hosted by me.
Friday at 4PM GMT+1 - hosted by We Wuz Nidokangz
Sunday at 9PM GMT+1 - hosted by manu 11

Voting reqs will be given to the winner of each of these suspect tours. If a tour has 12 or more participants, reqs will be given to the runner up as well.

 

[Tranquility]

Some VR Thought's and things (Haven't played much, but have watched a decent bit)

(A- ~> A) - It's still an insanely good breaker, and has more powerful duo stabs with lance and dragon energy to use. I also think scarf could be good in this meta too, since it already has a lot of power to take on a bulkier mons and can use the extra speed. I don't think it's representative to put it in the same tier as Mew or Tyranitar and below mons like Aerodactyl and Buzzwole which aren't the most common either.

(A- ~> A/A+) - It's basically a faster Lando-T with a stat spread that can gear towards potentially more bulky sets too. I don't see the huge disparity between them outside of STAB's to abuse, but I also think along with Kyurem that Chomp is def better than the rest of the A- Tier.

(A+ ~> A) - I've seen it on the ladder about as often as when pigs fly, and when you're also weak to a lot of common types such as Fire, Flying and fairy right now, it's hard for me to see it on par with the likes of Lando, Latios, Chansey or even Toxapex.



UR Noms

(UR ~> Viable) Most reliable Mag Killer and Good Tran killer not even getting a mention is weird, especially since those are two of the top 5 mons imo.

(UR ~> Viable) While not a great rocker by any means, I think Drum Sets are still good enough to push it towards Viability especially seeing lower usage in defensive Ghosts like Runerigus.

 

[in the hills]

After talking in the OM room and with some of the ROs we noticed a pretty glaring issue with the StAAAb banlist: Wicked Blow should not be fully banned in StAAAbmons, this is a complex ban that as a result only nerfs Urshifu (as it's the only Pokemon that naturally learns Wicked Blow) and goes against Smogon's tiering policy. If Urshifu with Wicked Blow is a problem, then ban Urshifu; fully banning Wicked Blow is a not a viable solution to the issue. I hope the council reconsiders their decision here

 

[Tmi489]

After talking in the OM room and with some of the ROs we noticed a pretty glaring issue with the StAAAb banlist: Wicked Blow should not be fully banned in StAAAbmons, this is a complex ban that as a result only nerfs Urshifu (as it's the only Pokemon that naturally learns Wicked Blow) and goes against Smogon's tiering policy. If Urshifu with Wicked Blow is a problem, then ban Urshifu; fully banning Wicked Blow is a not a viable solution to the issue. I hope the council reconsiders their decision here

Wicked has/had an element that can be considered (somewhat) inherently broken; the ability to bypass Dauntless Shield, an important part of walling things (more so during DLC1), while also being a dark move. While its not like Shadow Tag where LCs can be broken, it still is a 'special' element that can be associated to the move rather than Urshifu. Surging is not restricted/banned but there's greater counterplay (Desolate Land, Rocky Helmet) and is potentially broken anyway. I don't know too much else about the decision because it was a pretty long time ago. tbh it was to preserve Urshifu-S in an environment of Chanseyspam but there was also little time/desire to really fix things (which could've involved lots of bans as result)
Wicked Blow Urshifu can be tested again, either freed or Urshifu-S banned, but after Magearna suspect ends (and other things more pertinent, like Latios, Triage, Glacial Lance, Astral Barrage, etc. are also handled).

 

[The Number Man]

Camomons ABC is the new spotlight! Dec 9 to Dec 31. We'll try to match up the shcedule to exactly 2 spotlights per months in the new year.

Code can be found below, but you can also set tours with the ?starttour gen8abcamo command.

/tour new gen8camomons, elim
/tour rules Alphabet Cup Move Legality, -Acupressure, *Astral Barrage, *Bolt Beak, *Double Iron Bash, *Fishious Rend, *Geomancy, *Glacial Lance, *Lovely Kiss, *Shell Smash, *Shift Gear, *Sleep Powder, *Spore, *Surging Strikes, *Thousand Arrows, -cinderace, -spectrier, -pheromosa, -weavile, -dracovish
/tour autostart 10
/tour autodq 6
/tour name [Gen 8] ABCamomons

Here's a team to get you started

ABCamo team

Excadrill @ Life Orb
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance
- Rock Slide

Slowbro @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Spectral Thief
- Body Press
- Teleport
- Spikes

Reuniclus @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 212 HP / 252 SpA / 44 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Steel Beam
- Shadow Ball
- Calm Mind
- Recover

Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Shore Up
- Spectral Thief
- Calm Mind

Salamence @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Defog
- Sunsteel Strike
- Shore Up
- Dragon Tail

Dragapult @ Leftovers
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Dragon Energy
- Doom Desire
- U-turn
- Flamethrower

Have fun!

 

[Roldski32]

Camomons ABC Sets:

/

Frosmoth @ Leftovers
Ability: Ice Scales
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Scald
- Strange Steam / Dazzling Gleam
- Spectral Thief / Spikes / Flip Turn / Quiver Dance
- Shore Up / Strength Sap
Just a meme Ice Scale Mon right here.

/

Blacephalon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Boomburst
- Blue Flare
- Shadow Ball
- Trick
Bonkers.

/

or

/

Polteageist @ Focus Sash
Ability: Weak Armor
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Stored Power
- Shadow Ball / Secret Sword
- Secret Sword / Scorching Sand / Strange Steam
- Shell Smash
Shell Smash is restricted, but fortunately, Polteageist naturally gets it. ABC also grants it coverage moves such as Secret Sword, Strange Steam, and Scorching Sands.

/

Bewear @ Leftovers
Ability: Fluffy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Darkest Lariat
- Spectral Thief
- Shore Up / Strength Sap
- Stealth Rock / Spikes
Physical Wall.

/

Scyther @ Choice Band
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Storm Throw
- Dual Wingbeat
- Knock Off
- U-turn

Tech Storm Throw. Scyther is used mainly for its Speed Tier, otherwise, Scizor is an alternative.

 

[drampa's grandpa]

Some VR Thought's and things (Haven't played much, but have watched a decent bit)

(A- ~> A) - It's still an insanely good breaker, and has more powerful duo stabs with lance and dragon energy to use. I also think scarf could be good in this meta too, since it already has a lot of power to take on a bulkier mons and can use the extra speed. I don't think it's representative to put it in the same tier as Mew or Tyranitar and below mons like Aerodactyl and Buzzwole which aren't the most common either.

(A- ~> A/A+) - It's basically a faster Lando-T with a stat spread that can gear towards potentially more bulky sets too. I don't see the huge disparity between them outside of STAB's to abuse, but I also think along with Kyurem that Chomp is def better than the rest of the A- Tier.

(A+ ~> A) - I've seen it on the ladder about as often as when pigs fly, and when you're also weak to a lot of common types such as Fire, Flying and fairy right now, it's hard for me to see it on par with the likes of Lando, Latios, Chansey or even Toxapex.



UR Noms

(UR ~> Viable) Most reliable Mag Killer and Good Tran killer not even getting a mention is weird, especially since those are two of the top 5 mons imo.

(UR ~> Viable) While not a great rocker by any means, I think Drum Sets are still good enough to push it towards Viability especially seeing lower usage in defensive Ghosts like Runerigus.

I agree with some of these, disagree with some.
Buzzwole is amazing. It's one of the best Triage users and an incredible offensive Pokemon in general with either Bulk Up or Choice Band. Defensive sets are nice too, and one of the fattest physical walls in the tier, although common weaknesses to Fire, Flying, and Fairy (basically anything that starts with F) make it tough to build around.

Garchomp is OK, but not outstanding. It struggles to match the damage output of the best sweepers and is usually forced to run either Technician or Adaptability if it wants to keep up, limiting it. I could see it in A possibly, for the reasons you stated, but not A+.

Kyurem is strong it's true, but it's slow and weak to many common types including Rock (especially stealthy ones). I don't really have a firm opinion here other than that Magearna and Levitran being common make this a decently hard sell.

Agree. Excadrill is a good offensive support mon with a useful typing and Rapid Spin. I wouldn't call it the most reliable Mag killer (that's Volt Absorb Moltres fwiw) but it's certainly good at it and can run a number of abilities, from like, three different immunities (Levitate, Water Absorb/Dry Skin/Flash Fire) to offensive stuff (Aerilate, Refrigerate, Technician, Adaptability) to supportive stuff (Regenerator, Magic Bounce)
Agree. Pretty flexible mon although it can sometimes struggle not to be outclassed. Drum Triage is its most unique set but it has plenty of others including Csoul stuff, Poison Heal, -ate stuff, etc.

S-
Magearna (Flash Fire, Levitate, Regenerator, Magic Guard, Triage, Unaware)

A+
Chansey (Regenerator, Unaware, Magic Bounce)
Latios (Psychic Surge, Dragon's Maw, Adaptability)
Togekiss (Triage)
Landorus-T (Adaptability, Unburden)
Buzzwole (Adaptability, Triage, Dauntless Shield, Flash Fire, Regenerator)
Gengar (Storm Drain, Dazzling, Adaptability, Lightning Rod)
Weavile (Adaptability, Technician, Dazzling)

A
Tapu Fini (Poison Heal, Dauntless Shield, Triage, Regenerator)
Swampert (Intimidate, Regenerator, Dauntless Shield, Poison Heal, Sap Sipper, Primordial Sea)
Corviknight (Flash Fire, Volt Absorb, Regenerator, Magic Bounce, Unaware, etc.)
Victini (Desolate Land, Magnet Pull, Sheer Force, Magic Guard)
Heatran (Magic Guard, Magnet Pull, Desolate Land)
Toxapex (Prankster, Regenerator, Iron Barbs)
Aerodactyl (Magic Guard)

A-
Suicune (Poison Heal)
Spectrier (Adaptability, Dazzling)
Tornadus I + T (Triage)
Zapdos (Magic Bounce, Triage, Intimidate, Dauntless Shield, Delta Stream)
Tyranitar (Regenerator, Bulletproof, Magic Guard)
Kyurem (Adaptability, Sheer Force, Skill Link, Poison Heal)
Urshifu R (Technician, Primordial Sea, Regenerator)
Zapdos G (Magic Guard, Adaptability, Poison Heal)
Garchomp (Technician, Adaptability, Dauntless Shield, Poison Heal, Dazzling)
Mew (Prankster, Magic Bounce, Dauntless Shield)
Mamoswine (Adaptability, Technician, Regenerator)
Barraskewda (Primordial Sea)
Marowak Alola (Desolate Land, Adaptabiliy)

Viable
Urshifu - S (Tough Claws, Guts, Triage, Regenerator)
Glastrier (Adaptability)
Dracovish (Primordial Sea, Dazzling, Adaptability)
Dracozolt (Transistor, Adaptability, Dragon's Maw)
Ferrothorn (Flash Fire, Triage, Dauntless Shield, Mold Breaker)
Snorlax (Poison Heal, Unaware)
Doublade (Flash Fire, Levitate)
Gyarados (Technician, Magic Guard)
Noivern (Aerilate)
Nihilego (Mold Breaker, Regenerator, Water Absorb, Levitate)
Skarm (Flash Fire, Volt Absorb, Magic Guard)
Lele (Psychic Surge)
Bulu (Triage, Poison Heal)
Staka (Levitate, Steelworker, Adaptability)
Salamence (Technician, Triage, Magic Guard, Adaptability)
Cress (Poison Heal, Magic Bounce, Unaware)
Golisopod (Regenerator, Poison Heal, Volt Absorb, Triage)
Rhydon (Regenerator, Water Absorb)
Zarude (Triage, Grassy Surge)
Rhyperior (Water Absorb, Regenerator, Magic Guard, Sap Sipper)

Honestly this thing seems super outdated. I'm going to drop some noms but I think it just needs a total overhaul.

S- -> S
Why is there an S- rank but no S rank? This isn't a competitive argument, I'm just confused about that.

A -> A-
Swampert can put in work on the right team, but it's not incredibly effective compared to Pokemon like Tapu Fini and Heatran. There are too many Grass moves flying around and Pokemon Swampert just can't keep up with, and it fits better with the somewhat more niche mons in A- than the super strong stuff in A.

A- -> viable
This thing has such an unfortunate typing here. I'm not actually sure what it's supposed to do effectively compared to other walls when it keels over to the first Triage user sent out in front of it. It's just too hard to support to justify A-.

A -> A+
Fini is great! It can do so many things, but my favorite set is Poison Heal by far. It's an effective tank and can set up on a ton of offensive or defensive mons, especially special attackers. Scald + Moonblast is excellent coverage, and can get many sweeps.

UR noms

UR -> A
This thing is incredible. It is one of the best walls in the tier, possibly the best physical wall. I've hyped this up in a previous post, but it really is amazing. It tanks all but the most powerful or super effective hits, and eliminate 3/4 of its weaknesses with abilities, set hazards, phaze, and, most of all, tank physical stuff until the end of time. I can find some replays and edit them in.

EDIT: Found one
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8staaabmons-1235993673. Also showcases Azu decently.

UR -> whatever Chansey is
They're the same thing, but Blissey can run Boots or Poison Heal. They're different, but not enough so that they warrant a rank difference, and certainly not enough so that Blissey shouldnt be ranked.

UR -> Viable / A-
Moltres is really nice as a defensive Pokemon right now. It checks non-rock move Heatran (aka all of them), and counters most of the remaining sets only getting gibbed by Desoland Specs. Volt Absorb is the single best and most reliable Magearna counter. It checks both Ferrothorn and Buzzwole, along with stuff like Bulu. Good sets include Magic Guard, Magic Bounce, Volt Absorb, and probably some others I haven't tried.

UR -> Viable
see this post, it talks about Latias better than I could. There are other cool Latias sets as well, but that's the one that screwed me over ;-;7

UR -> Viable
Low tiered but viable, Azumarill brings defensive utility to the table. It's cutprice Tapu Fini with more bulk(?) and better moves overall, but worse otherwise. Use it if you value its utility. I talked about it a bit in a previous post.

UR -> Viable
Lucario makes an adequate Magic Guard or -ate user which is very difficult to switch into thanks to its large movepool including Extreme Speed and good offensive stats. It's no meta-defining beast but it's certainly viable and should be ranked as such.

 

[Tranquility]

I don't think Wicked Blow should be allowed back in staaab, so the only result unfortunately would be to ban Urshifu. Wicked Blow has very little resists and nothing that can be "Immune to it" unlike Surging Strikes. In addition, the base 80 power makes it more powerful than surging strikes's 75, and with the less recoil to boot.


Here's some calc's vs relevant mons as of right now (Using Sniper, but adapt/Tough Claws could work too)

Calcs

252+ Atk Choice Band Sniper Urshifu Wicked Blow vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Magearna on a critical hit: 159-189 (43.6 - 51.9%) -- 11.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Sniper Urshifu Wicked Blow vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Tapu Fini on a critical hit: 159-189 (46.3 - 55.1%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Sniper Urshifu Wicked Blow vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex on a critical hit: 258-306 (84.8 - 100.6%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Choice Band Sniper Urshifu Wicked Blow vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Swampert on a critical hit: 373-441 (92.3 - 109.1%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

The only thing of relevance that Wicked Can't 2hko is buzzwole, Magearna also but it gets 2hko'd by CC. While there is an influx of triage, fairies and flying, I think the lack of Reliable counters makes it something that should be looked at after the suspect.

 

[The Number Man]

A- -> viable
This thing has such an unfortunate typing here. I'm not actually sure what it's supposed to do effectively compared to other walls when it keels over to the first Triage user sent out in front of it. It's just too hard to support to justify A-.

UR -> whatever Chansey is
They're the same thing, but Blissey can run Boots or Poison Heal. They're different, but not enough so that they warrant a rank difference, and certainly not enough so that Blissey shouldnt be ranked.

I agree on most of these noms (esp fini) but I'd like to offer some insight on the ranking (or lack thereof) of these two mons.

TTar's unique typing lends itself very well to checking most flying type triage mons and its stat line makes it especially good at punishing Owingers that carry taunt in order to break through Chansey. Additionally, Ghosts and Psychics are very powerful special attackers in the metagame and Tyranitar does very well at checking them (with Regenerator) or outright countering them (Bulletproof). It definitely shores up the holes that using Chansey as your spd wall creates.

Due to everything getting access to insanely high BP moves, Blissey often finds itself lacking the bulk to serve as an adequate SPD pivot. Regen Boots Blissey is a very solid pivot in AAA, but here it has a hard time eating Specs Eforces from Lati/Lele, Dragon energies and weather boosted spouts/eruptions. This means that Blissey often just doesnt do what yuo need it to do. I definitely agree that something like poison heal blissey could work as a way to beat opposing special setup sweepers, but that hasnt been tried yet.

 

[Dylanronpa]

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8tiershift-1240446659-2yqks32fpuwr060h3mmpbonn43kp8xppw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8mixandmega-1240450435-ehskdb8fktd8jcp07nn2sam8mlbbyo4pw

Won Vs Poka for daily tournament playoffs, ggs :)

 

[Ch17770w]

Just a STAAAB set which might have been posted already.

Buzzwole @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Dauntless Shield
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Body Press
- U-turn
- Roost
- Toxic

Bulk Up or Sticky Web are cool, too. Also min speed for slow U-Turn is nice.