After juggling a party of 16 through Sword, I don't mind benching a Pokémon for a while.
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- Thread starter antemortem
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After juggling a party of 16 through Sword, I don't mind benching a Pokémon for a while.
a party of 16?! wow. how would you describe that experience?
was it difficult? was it challenging? was it easy?
It was really fun, being able to use every Gen VIII Pokémon I liked (and didn't require trading - sorry, Eiscue and Appletun). Finally, no more having to do extensive planning to pick only six options for the entire game.
And I wouldn't say it was challenging (it's Pokémon, so it's going to be easy unless you go through massive restrictions), but I ended up being underleveled for most of the second half of the story.
that's great to hear! organic playstyles rock.
well, not untrue, though it can get tedious due to level differences imo...how underleveled were you? 2 levels? 5? 10?
Generally no more than 2 or 3 levels, not counting the sudden level spike that Leon is.
ah, that's not bad at all then.
Adding to the roast of the modern exp share, anyone remember how tedious was to get an early game Gyarados? You have to sit through grinding of the slow-exp rate weak af Magikarp (who usually begins at lv 5-10), but at lv 20 you get rewarded with a very powerful mon stat wise whose movepool gets better overtime. The modern exp share makes this grindfest a non issue so now there's pretty much no drawback at getting an early Gyarados to easily break through the game (or any other Magikarp variant like Wimpod).
SwSh makes it even more absurd, WATERFALL AT LEVEL 21 AND CRUNCH AT LEVEL 24.
SwSh makes it even more absurd, WATERFALL AT LEVEL 21 AND CRUNCH AT LEVEL 24.
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True, Dragonite is also a very friendly Pokemon. Dragonite is definitely one of my favorite pseudo-legendaries, and I think its pretty cute. I guess I never thought of it on the same level of cute as Goodra because of that Johto episode where it goes on an outrage and destroys a forest, and how Iris's Dragonite was portrayed. And there was also Moon's Pokedex Entry: "Incur the wrath of this normally calm Pokémon at your peril, because it will smash everything to smithereens before it's satisfied."
As for battle performance, its true Goodra has never been at the top of the crop in Singles. It has, however, had pretty good results in VGC 14, 17, and early 20, specifically as a special wall that can take on the likes of Sun, Rain, and plethora Special Attackers like Gengar, Greninja, Mega Charizard Y, Thundurus, Ludicolo, Nihilego, Zapdos, Porygon-Z etc. There very few Pokemon who can blanket check all those. Sap Sipper is also incredibly useful against Amoonguss, and access to Sludge Bomb gave it a better than average matchup against Fairy types than the Kommo-o and Hydreigon.
On the topic if the game's transitions to 3D.
Interesting point, though I wouldn't call it unique to Rayquaza. Kyogre and Groudon have been respected throughout Hoenn, and Rayquaza itself was deemed the protector of Hoenn in ORAS so it definitely wasn't " forgotten " by the people of Hoenn. I'd argue that Giratina is also a " forgotten " Pokemon in a similar manner to Rayquaza.
"No...! I'm so sorry I took so long. I think I finally found the answer from studying the myths. When this world was made, Dialga and Palkia appeared. Apparently, there was one more Pokémon that appeared at the same time. A Pokémon with as much power as Dialga and Palkia... But also one whose name was never to be spoken--Giratina! - Cynthia
Its not a quote, but a man Eterna City in Platinum states that there was a third plate was torn off, which is heavily implied to be Giratina.
Its not a quote, but a man Eterna City in Platinum states that there was a third plate was torn off, which is heavily implied to be Giratina.
Its definitely safe to say that Giratina is also a forgotten- and forbidden- Pokemon in Sinnoh. Even its Platinum's Pokedex entry suggests a Dark History: It was banished for its violence. It silently gazed upon the old world from the Distortion World. Which suggests that Giratina is a violent Pokemon with a dark history. I guess that's why Giratina is the most popular of all the Sinnoh Dragons.
Anyway, I wonder if the reason why Rayquaza is so popular because it happened to be the very first Legendary Dragon- a trend that would continue to this day, with each gen introducing at least one Legendary Dragon each gen.
On the topic of 2D to 3D, I agree with mostly with what is said, and I like to add my own experiences. I agree that games definitely still feel like 2D games to a degree, especially when it comes to battle animations. Its not all bad though, they did ditch the limited movement and bird's eye view in Gen 7, and the super mechanics would either not be visually appealing or simply not possible 2D. Imagine the Z-move poses and animations being done in 2D very hard, if not impossible. Dynamax would be impossible on handhelds simply because of the small screen and low resolution.
I've already praised SM for being some of the best looking games of the franchise ( way better than SwSh ), but it took me a long time to realize that. Why? Well, because I played SM on an original 3DS and, OH MY LORD, its very clear they wanted you play these games on the New 3DS. When ever I first started my Moon cartridge on my 3DS, I got the message, " The SD card is corrupted", it took me like 30 minutes to get my copy running. Every time when I opened by Moon game, it always felt like it took 30-40 seconds for the title screen to load. And that's before things like Double Battles, where the trainers the stand motionless for 10 seconds. If you quit the game from the home screen on the original 3DS, you had to restart the whole system. And that's before considering the performance issues. I guess the best way to describe it for New 3DS players is this: Playing Gen 7 on an original 3DS was like playing DP.
I more minor qualm with the performance was that that they were partially why Triple and Rotation Battles were removed in Gen 7, which was unfortunate because I did a lot of triple battles in XY.
And lastly, I'm also disappointed that Pokemon are not scaled properly in SwSh despite being scaled in Let's Go. One of the reasons why a console game was popular in thought because you can get Pokemon scaled to actual size. This was excusable on handheld due to the small screen due to the low resolution, and aforementioned screen issue. There's no reason why this error happens on console. But it does, and looks really bad in SwSh , with the stadiums being huge and The Pokemon is so tiny. You know things look bad when Eternatus, the largest Pokemon is the same size as the trainer. DK speculates a reason why Pokemon are not scaled properly is to emulate a style from the 2D games in which the Pokemon are facing the back, and that would not be possible if the Pokemon were scaled properly. Another example of how 2D style is used in the 3D games and it does not work well.
Anyway, a big reason why the 3DS games lag so much is because the models have extremely high polygon amounts in order to future proof them for stronger hardware on the Switch. To prove how flexible they are, the same models are used on SmartPhones like Go and Masters. DistantKingdom provides a breakdown while also criticizing a controversial YouTuber for his false claims.
I agree this sentiment. I've played DragonQuest 11 and Xenoblade Chronicles and they both use experience share, and yet I found the games challenging. If anything, Pokemon's easiness comes from the lack good AI and IVs and bad movesets. For example, every generic trainer that isn't part of the gym challenge have their IVs set to 0 in SwSh. Or the lack of proper movesets, for example, Allister's Mimikyu doesn't have a single Fairy type move despite being an excellent way to prevent you from steamrolling with Dark types. It doesn't even have 4 moves. If you know basics of The Pokemon, I highly doubt SwSh would prove challenging even if you did not have the experience share.
Funny, if this game never existed, Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE would have been proposed as a Pokemon x Fire Emblem crossover.
Ah yes, just box all your other mons...
Masuda, is that you?
I haven't played these, but aren't the actual battle parties "3-character sized" like most JRPGs?
And this is why I say the difficulty settings should come back.
It's not hard to make these games difficult enough to add flavor without making them bad romhacks.
Give movesets with actual strategy and a theme behind them, and give trainers some IVs and EVs (no need to max or even optimize them, just add some stats so you can't roll over Leaders just because you stack EVs during the main game.)
Of course, the truly embarrassing AI just ain't that easy to fix, but you can at least keep it in check in SwSh with some moveset mods. (You'd be surprised how good AI Raid Partners get with fully offensive movesets and toggling the "actually knows type-matchups" AI flag.")
A new unpopular opinion has arrived!
Typhlosion is one of the best starter Pokémon of all time. I just smashed the Elite Four with him, only switched to Quagsire when I needed help against Aerodactyl, otherwise Sunny Day + Fire Blast + Thunderpunch allows him to steamroll all of their members (yes, even Bruno and Karen). He was tanking Dragonite's Hyper Beams and 2HKOIng back with Sunny Charcoal Blast, critical hit oneshotted Umbreon with Fire Blast, and one-shotted Gyarados outright with Thunderpunch. I needed to heal HP only very occasionally and largely between fights, Bruno was a total joke though spamming Full Restores against Lance was necessary so Typhlo could rebound and take advantage of Outrage/Hyper Beam locks. PP was the bigger concern, but it says a lot to me that a Pokémon that evolves so late for a starter can have such a dominant performance throughout the game.
Even in spite of the late evolution, he can torch Falkner, Bugsy, Whitney (yes, even her - Fury Cutter GG), Morty (Dig + hold a Mint Berry), Jasmine Flame Wheel GG), and Pryce (Guard Spec + Fury Cutter GG). Only Chuck and Clair are bad matchups not only among leaders but also the game. He can also help break Brock, Misty, Erika, Surge, Sabrina, Blaine (if EQ is available), Janine, and half of Blue's team, and a third of Red's himself.
This is all in Crystal, but I don't remember any Pokemon being so overwhelmingly good at powering through everyone in their path in any game.*
*Not counting solo runs (usually characterized by level overgrowth or X-Item spam). Okay, Mewtwo came pretty close. Also, Chuck and Clair still win.
Typhlosion is one of the best starter Pokémon of all time. I just smashed the Elite Four with him, only switched to Quagsire when I needed help against Aerodactyl, otherwise Sunny Day + Fire Blast + Thunderpunch allows him to steamroll all of their members (yes, even Bruno and Karen). He was tanking Dragonite's Hyper Beams and 2HKOIng back with Sunny Charcoal Blast, critical hit oneshotted Umbreon with Fire Blast, and one-shotted Gyarados outright with Thunderpunch. I needed to heal HP only very occasionally and largely between fights, Bruno was a total joke though spamming Full Restores against Lance was necessary so Typhlo could rebound and take advantage of Outrage/Hyper Beam locks. PP was the bigger concern, but it says a lot to me that a Pokémon that evolves so late for a starter can have such a dominant performance throughout the game.
Even in spite of the late evolution, he can torch Falkner, Bugsy, Whitney (yes, even her - Fury Cutter GG), Morty (Dig + hold a Mint Berry), Jasmine Flame Wheel GG), and Pryce (Guard Spec + Fury Cutter GG). Only Chuck and Clair are bad matchups not only among leaders but also the game. He can also help break Brock, Misty, Erika, Surge, Sabrina, Blaine (if EQ is available), Janine, and half of Blue's team, and a third of Red's himself.
This is all in Crystal, but I don't remember any Pokemon being so overwhelmingly good at powering through everyone in their path in any game.*
*Not counting solo runs (usually characterized by level overgrowth or X-Item spam). Okay, Mewtwo came pretty close. Also, Chuck and Clair still win.
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On the topic of Exp. Share and Exp. Groups, I had another idea of how to fix it that might be tenable?
What if instead of distributing experience (or maybe on top of it, if the experience shared is balanced better), having it enabled also nullifies the effect of Exp. Groups. So every Pokémon in your party levels as if they're in the Normal exp. group or something.
I feel like this is a more refined way of achieving what the devs seem to want:
A) The purpose of exp. groups, insofar as I can tell, is to make it more difficult to use powerful Pokémon. Of course, it doesn't do that and only works theoretically and in isolation, because it actually makes it harder to justify using the Pokémon on your team with better experience curves since you have to focus on using the one Pokémon with a slow curve so it keeps up. Since the Exp. All seems intended as some kind of easy mode, nullifying this effect seems better.
B) The modern games seem as anti-grind in design as possible, because Game Freak is for some reason still scared that all the kids will go and play Angry Birds instead of Pokémon. This idea legitimately just gives every Pokémon better experience throughout the adventure lessening the need for grinding even more.
C) Since the games seem designed around having Exp. All on (SwSh doesn't even let you turn it off), every Pokémon having the same level curve makes it way easier to balance opponent levels.
This would depend on the Exp. All being a key item again, of course, so players who don't use the Exp. All can play with a more authentic experience where the on paper more powerful Pokémon still require a little more work grinding. But it seems like a pretty clear solution to the at times game-breaking interaction between Exp. Groups and the Exp. All (this interaction being my least favourite part of SwSh and why I dislike going back and playing it now).
What if instead of distributing experience (or maybe on top of it, if the experience shared is balanced better), having it enabled also nullifies the effect of Exp. Groups. So every Pokémon in your party levels as if they're in the Normal exp. group or something.
I feel like this is a more refined way of achieving what the devs seem to want:
A) The purpose of exp. groups, insofar as I can tell, is to make it more difficult to use powerful Pokémon. Of course, it doesn't do that and only works theoretically and in isolation, because it actually makes it harder to justify using the Pokémon on your team with better experience curves since you have to focus on using the one Pokémon with a slow curve so it keeps up. Since the Exp. All seems intended as some kind of easy mode, nullifying this effect seems better.
B) The modern games seem as anti-grind in design as possible, because Game Freak is for some reason still scared that all the kids will go and play Angry Birds instead of Pokémon. This idea legitimately just gives every Pokémon better experience throughout the adventure lessening the need for grinding even more.
C) Since the games seem designed around having Exp. All on (SwSh doesn't even let you turn it off), every Pokémon having the same level curve makes it way easier to balance opponent levels.
This would depend on the Exp. All being a key item again, of course, so players who don't use the Exp. All can play with a more authentic experience where the on paper more powerful Pokémon still require a little more work grinding. But it seems like a pretty clear solution to the at times game-breaking interaction between Exp. Groups and the Exp. All (this interaction being my least favourite part of SwSh and why I dislike going back and playing it now).
Very interesting idea.
I don't know why GF is so scared of kids deserting the fanbase, given that the bulk of the players happen to be older in age from what I know. They could also simply add some new difficulty features to cater to both fans who want an easy game and those who want a real challenge - an ''easy'' mode where accumulating experience is a lot easier and faster and a ''hard'' mode where the opponents have nigh competitive movesets.
Just remove the dang groups. It's been a horrible idea since Gen 1 and now it's an artifact that stunts the franchise.
I went the extra mile and changed every mon to Medium-Slow on SwSh manually.
It's a whole new game.
While it would definitely make things a bit more convenient for people using those mons, I gotta disagree.
It's completely fair for raising especially powerful Pokémon to be a challenge, like Dratini and Bagon. The part I don't like is how late they evolve, which would be a terrible thing even if they were in the Fast experience group or the one above that (Fluctuating?).
On the other hand, you would think that this late evolution in itself would provide enough of a drawback when using them, or what? If the Pokémon doesn't get good until level thirty-something anyway, why would it also need to take forever to get there?
Eh, I think this drawback is too extreme to be justified lol. The slow experience group is tolerable, if only just? But waiting till L40+ to evolve?
That is a joke.
I never saw either of these anime versions of Dragonite, so I never got that impression from it. IIRC, the only Dragonite I ever saw in the anime was the one in the first movie which was a mail deliverer, and it seemed pretty friendly to me from what I can remember. I think my overall impression of Dragonite being friendly is mostly from how it is depicted in sprites/models and official artwork. From the sprites and models, only the ones from R/B and R/G show it as being somewhat angry, while all of its official artwork show it as being friendly to me. And yeah, its Pokédex entry in Moon is really scary, but it also mentions that Dragonite is normally calm. Reading its other Pokédex entries, it is mentioned as being kindhearted in R/S/E, UM and Sword, and many of them mentioning it helping people at sea. So I guess that's why I see Dragonite as kind and friendly. As for Goodra, I it in the same way because it looks very friendly in models and artwork, and several of its Pokédex entries also mentions it being friendly.
That's interesting. I don't play VGC so I had no idea about any of that, but I can definitely see Goodra being a pretty good special wall thanks to its high Sp.def, Sap Sipper, useful typing and decent movepool. From personal experience though, I have had much more success with Dragonite. I have used it on several teams for the Battle Subway and Maison, and even on one of the few online teams I have made, which was in Gen 6. Good stats on the whole, Multiscale, Roost, Dragon Dance and an otherwise vast movepool has given me great success with it for the most part.
I only have two original 3DS (XL) and I have thus played all my Pokémon games on them. I never had any issues with the SD card getting corrupted, but I agree about the slow loading times for S/M and US/UM. It felt like it took a long time for these games to get started, and sometimes battles were slow too, especially Double battles. In comparison, I never felt that X/Y and OR/AS were that slow, neither when it came to starting the games nor when I played them. I also felt that US/UM were noticably faster than S/M even if I played them on the same system. And I guess the bolded part of your post is yet another reason as for why I can consider S/M to be the D/P of Gen 7.
Personally, I think all the 3DS games as well as S/S look great in terms of graphics. The same even goes for LGP/E, I haven't played them but they look great from what I have seen in trailers and videos. Not sure which I think look the very best though. I'd guess US/UM or S/S, the former might be more advanced seen to the system while the latter has the edge thanks to being in HD.
Next, regarding the Exp. Share and the easiness of Pokémon games, since it was brought up. I mostly agree with what has been said about the thing with the new Exp. Share is that it makes the games less tedious and not necessarily easier (because, like it or not, Pokémon games have always been very easy). However, I do think they should have kept the Exp. Share optional in Gen 8 just like it was in Gen 6/7.
I also want to say something about Pokémon Archetypes since it has been discussed recently and I came up with a potentially new archetype which I don't think has been mentioned before. This might be the wrong thread, but I'll say it here anyway since I'm not sure where else to post it. What I came up with is the "Mushroom" archetype, as I like to call it. However, it only appears in every other generation as opposed to in every generation. The Pokémon that are a part of it so far are the Paras, Shroomish, Foongus and Morelull lines. What they all have in common is the following:
- They are always introduced in an odd generation (1, 3, 5, 7, with 9 very likely to follow)
- They are based on mushrooms/fungi
- Apart from Morelull/Shiinotic, they are all classified as Mushroom Pokémon in the Pokédex. Morelull and Shiinotic are classified as Illuminating Pokémon instead
- They are two-stage Grass-types
- The final evolution is always dual-typed (and with the sole exception of Shroomish, all base stages are dual-typed as well)
- They have Effect Spore as one of their primary Abilities (or in the case of the Foongus line, their only primary Ability)
- They can learn the move Spore, and they are the only Pokémon which can learn the move (apart from Smeargle). The only exception is Breloom which cannot learn Spore through level-up, but Shroomish can which means Breloom can get it as well.
So I guess that's an archetype to an extent, if nothing else. I'm not sure if there are any similar archetypes like this which only appear in every other generation or on a similar basis as opposed to in every generation, but this was one I could think of. Maybe something similar can be said for the fossils, but they were already on the archetype sheet with a note that they do not appear in every generation.
I would be very surprised if they don't follow up with a 5th Pokémon like this in Gen 9. And in order to maybe make this unpopular, I want say that this is an archetype I really like. I will actually be very disappointed if there is no new mushroom Pokémon in Gen 9.
To be fair, it patiently waited its turn to attack, while TR used literal bazookas
Seems like an early preview for Gigantamax lol.
Clair's Dragonite: In the Johto arc, when Ash & co. arrives to Blackthorn City for Ash to get his eighth Johto Badge, they learn that nearby Blackthorn is the Dragon Holy Land and living there is the former Blackthorn City Gym Leader's Dragonite who guards it. Normally peaceful, Team Rocket end up getting into the Dragon Holy Land, trick Dragonite into helping them, and while Dragonite was fighting Ash & co. & Clair they tried to steal the valuables from the shrine there. They try stealing a golden prayer ball with the flame still lit in it, but accidentally end up setting the Dragon Holy Lands on fire. Dragonite, seeing the destruction and realizing it was tricked, immediately went into a rage causing even more damage to the Dragon Holy Land. Ash & co. & Clair succeed in calming down Dragonite, it weeping for the massive damage it has caused to the Dragon Holy Land though all the other Pokemon living there comfort it. Meanwhile Team Rocket try leaving with a holy relic, a Dragon Fang, but Ash has Pikachu use Thunderbolt blasting them off and retrieving the Dragon Fang. (EP252 & EP253)
It's then revealed in Black & White's Decolore Arc that Clair had caught this Dragonite and uses it for the episode she appears in, it forming a fierce rivalry with Iris's Dragonite, both trying to one-up each other (and poor Ash's Charizard trying to break up their fights only for both of them to push it aside). (BW136)
Iris's Dragonite: Iris's Dragonite is notable for being cranky and foul-tempered which is different from how a Dragonite usually is. It's revealed in the past it has had a fierce rivalry with a Hydreigon. It was after one battle with Hydreigon that it injured its wing causing it to find someplace to rest which ended up being inside a power plant accidentally causing Undella Town to have a blackout. This is where Ash & co. get involved and, after helping Dragonite and Iris forming a bond with it, it does decide to stay with Iris. From there you can read the rest of its article, but main point is that Iris's challenge with Dragonite is getting it to open up to her but it's too jaded to want to do it, even not wanting to listen to her if it feels like it could battle batter than what she's telling it. Dragonite also liked picking fights with strong opponents, notably Ash's Charizard and the above mentioned Clair's Dragonite.
There's plenty of clips on Youtube of Iris's Dragonite essentially being a jerk cause it's such a stark contrast to how Dragonite is usually shown it sticks out.
Huh, never realized that but you're right. Let's see what Gen 9 does though before making it an official archetype.
And now you have Ash's Dragonite that is taking the "stereotypes" to an extreme.
(which kind of reminds me on an incomplete fan fiction I made a long time ago that had a Haxorus that was the girliest girl ever in terms of personality, but at the same time she could decimate opponents in battle with her hacked moveset)
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Interesting, tell us more. The idea of a ''girly girl'' Haxorus is pretty cool, I like it when you have characters that are multidimensional like that. A sadistic and bloodthirsty Wigglytuff would be a pretty hilarious Pokemon to have in a work, I think.
Wait...Ash has a Dragonite?! Since when?!
Well, I'll be...