I guess someone must have changed Dragonite's SWSH level-up table and "fixed" the move error, because I remember making an edit about it.
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SPOILERS! Brilliant Diamond & Shining Pearl Data Dumps
- Thread starter DHR-107
- Start date
Someone on Reddit posted that these games have a variation of Sword/Shield’s “Brilliant” Pokémon where, at the start of some wild battles, the camera will be zoomed into the player character’s face before the battle begins (similar to the battle with the Starly in the beginning of the game). Apparently this signifies that the wild Pokémon has at least 2 max IVs. This may be worth looking into, for those who are already playing.
Just dropping by to confirm that you can get destroyed by the trainers in this game if you become even slightly underleveled. Roark just gave me a hard time because I tried to beat him without Turtwig. And even with Turtwig, I still was close to losing.
Enemy AI has indeed been buffed compared to original D/P.
EDIT: I meant to post this in the playthrough thread gdi
Enemy AI has indeed been buffed compared to original D/P.
EDIT: I meant to post this in the playthrough thread gdi
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It's been an egg move since gen 4
until SWSH took it away because it's a TR
I guess for egg moves they just used gen 7?
I might have missed someone replying to this sort of question earlier, but my Clefable just copycatted Unown's Hidden Power without a problem. It looks like everything will have Hidden Power back if BDSP does old transfer mons.
Damn, so THAT'S why I can't find the Drifloon. FFS
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Maybe not the place to talk about it, but I find it extremely frustrating that BDSP Thanos snapped the compatability of TM06 Toxic. I know that it still remains compatible on all Pokémon (except VGC formats), but it still comes across as a lazy choice instead of trying to balance it with the tools they already have present in game.
If they wanted to remove it almost completely to desensitize degenerate stall plays, I don't see why they wouldn't make it more of a high risk high reward move with a sinister downside. If they wanted to make it "make sense" by having only a handful of relevant Poison/Poison-adjacent Pokémon learn it, then I think it's a bit too late for that.
My take on how the move should work takes both of those points in mind.
I think Toxic should be re-made available to all Pokémon who could previously learn it, but it should be brought back down to it's previous 85% accuracy (or even down to 70%). Furthermore, if the user's Toxic should miss the opponent, I think it should badly Poison the user. This sounds awful, and would almost completely decensitize the usage for Pokémon like Landorus-T or Hippowdon, but it would offer some unique interactions.
Firstly, it would be a nice mirror to how Toxic always hits when used by a Poison type. Otherwise, Steel types would still be unaffected, albeit the lower accuracy would balance the issue a bit more.
The poster children of stall and serial Toxic usersChansey and Blissey wouldn't suffer too badly since they have Natural Cure as their primary ability and would be able to switch out to remove the harm done to themselves. Other Pokémon with Natural Cure like Altaria who often use Toxic would also share this unique interaction and be more favorable as Toxic spreaders in their respective tiers.
Mentioning those 3 prior Pokémon reminded me that they all have access to either Heal Bell or Aromatherapy, as do other great Pokémon like Clefable or Mew. Clerics could become a bit more of a niche in consequence to players wanting to use Toxic on mons like Lando and Hippo.
Clefable amongst others also has Magic Guard to avoid damage completely.
Another fun interaction would be Poison Heal Breloom or Gliscor holding an item other than Toxic Orb to benefit from either poisoning the target, getting poisoned by missing and therefore healing passively, and also holding a viable/non-wasted hold item like Lefties or HDB.
Marvel Scale Pokémon like Milotic and (Eviolite) Dragonair could also benefit from accidentally being poisoned, though to a lesser extent than Breloom and Gliscor.
None of these interactions make the move better than it currently is, and that isn't the point. The side effect of badly poisoning yourself will almost never be good, but as a way to desensitize the move as a whole, I think it works and it still provides room for some Pokémon to use the move either completely or almost completely unhindered.
If they wanted to remove it almost completely to desensitize degenerate stall plays, I don't see why they wouldn't make it more of a high risk high reward move with a sinister downside. If they wanted to make it "make sense" by having only a handful of relevant Poison/Poison-adjacent Pokémon learn it, then I think it's a bit too late for that.
My take on how the move should work takes both of those points in mind.
I think Toxic should be re-made available to all Pokémon who could previously learn it, but it should be brought back down to it's previous 85% accuracy (or even down to 70%). Furthermore, if the user's Toxic should miss the opponent, I think it should badly Poison the user. This sounds awful, and would almost completely decensitize the usage for Pokémon like Landorus-T or Hippowdon, but it would offer some unique interactions.
Firstly, it would be a nice mirror to how Toxic always hits when used by a Poison type. Otherwise, Steel types would still be unaffected, albeit the lower accuracy would balance the issue a bit more.
The poster children of stall and serial Toxic usersChansey and Blissey wouldn't suffer too badly since they have Natural Cure as their primary ability and would be able to switch out to remove the harm done to themselves. Other Pokémon with Natural Cure like Altaria who often use Toxic would also share this unique interaction and be more favorable as Toxic spreaders in their respective tiers.
Mentioning those 3 prior Pokémon reminded me that they all have access to either Heal Bell or Aromatherapy, as do other great Pokémon like Clefable or Mew. Clerics could become a bit more of a niche in consequence to players wanting to use Toxic on mons like Lando and Hippo.
Clefable amongst others also has Magic Guard to avoid damage completely.
Another fun interaction would be Poison Heal Breloom or Gliscor holding an item other than Toxic Orb to benefit from either poisoning the target, getting poisoned by missing and therefore healing passively, and also holding a viable/non-wasted hold item like Lefties or HDB.
Marvel Scale Pokémon like Milotic and (Eviolite) Dragonair could also benefit from accidentally being poisoned, though to a lesser extent than Breloom and Gliscor.
None of these interactions make the move better than it currently is, and that isn't the point. The side effect of badly poisoning yourself will almost never be good, but as a way to desensitize the move as a whole, I think it works and it still provides room for some Pokémon to use the move either completely or almost completely unhindered.
I'd just point you that Toxic isn't a first for this, other moves have appeared and disappeared as far as compatibility goes between generation (notably, mostly-Tutor-specific moves like Tailwind and Knock Off come and go, and notably both are absent this generation).
You'd be used to this if you ever played the actual competitive format instead of the unsupported ripoff that Smogon is.
6v6 singles doesn't exist. 6v6 doubles also doesn't exist.
The only competitive scenario is 4v4 doubles and 3v3 singles with generation-specific rules (aka, no transfer moves, ever).*
And "cutting" former TMs from movesets isn't new, someone probably remembers how Mega Kangaskhan went from broken to barely viable in a single Power Up Punch.
edit: * = Outside of the very rare occasional special event where they allow old generation pokemon or normally unallowed mythicals for the special vgc mode.
Not in the same way though: If a Pokemon was able to learn a move by a TM or Tutor in a previous gen and the move is teachable by TM or tutor again, barring VERY few exceptions, it will be learnable by the same Pokemon. Disappeared compatibility due to the move not being teachable (like Knock Off and Defog in SwSh) are a different beast entirely.
And for reference, some examples of lost COMPATIBILITY like Toxic's example are mons that get Reflect in Gen 1 and not when the TM comes back in Gen 3, Cyndaquil line's Gen 2 and no further learning of Iron Tail and a few mons with Psych Up (like iirc Mankey)
I'm sorry not to add anything relevant after what you just said, but I had to respond to say that it's actually a really good idea, and I'd like to see that. Apart from that, you're forgetting that they can just make it so only Pokemon captured in Galar and onward can be transfered, in future game, thus removing compatibility with old CT spreading like Toxic. I don't think that's a good play, but that's one play.
I 100% understand what you're saying, amd I'm familiar with VGC and the restrictions. But what you're saying isn't entirely true. Moves like Tailwind, SR, Defog, the Elemental Punches, Roost, and Knock Off are examples of moves that have all been absent from certain games that didn't use them as TMs or tutor moves. XY is an example. Blaziken was in XY and couldn't learn Thunder Punch or Knock Off naturally in these games, and could only learn them in Gen 6 when ORAS reintroduced them as move tutors. For purpose sake, we won't be talking about transferring mons from previous gens, since we should all be well aware that these mons will most likely be able to us Toxic if taught in previous gens.
The difference with Toxic is that is is back as a TM, and almost all previous users are unable to learn it via TM. As far as I'm aware, we have never had an instance where a previous TM or tutor move was reinstated in the game and a Pokémon who was able to learn it before is no longer able to.
Let's look at SWSH. SWSH removed Toxic from the TM/TR pool, which effectively neutered it's availability without transfer. It just wasn't in the game, and this example is more in line with what you're talking about.
In BDSP, Toxic is back (like we've seen with old tutor moves), but I'm going to reiterate that with it being back, the majority of Pokemon that used to be able to learn it simply CANNOT be taught it via TM anymore.
*someone referenced some Gen 1 and 2 inconsistencies that I forgot like Reflect, for example. Just wanted to add this so nobody else comments about it
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Has anyone determined the rate at which underground pokemon spawn w egg moves?
Want to hunt for a Roselia/Budew with extrasensory for play through but don’t want to waste toooo much time
Want to hunt for a Roselia/Budew with extrasensory for play through but don’t want to waste toooo much time
The thing is, the weirdest part about the Gen I Reflect TM being available to a large chunk of Pokemon, is that Let's Go gave the move back to all of those same Pokemon, only for Sword and Shield to take it away again. Not to mention Toxic was in Let's Go and everything that could learn new moves via TMs still got it.
There have been a few examples here and there, with Gen 1 Reflect certainly being the biggest; but stuff like Toxic here is by far the biggest example of what's being noted. I don't think that's unfair to point out.
Those two plus the remaining Gen 4 mythicals are indeed the only currently unobtainable Pokémon between both versions
Guess we have to wait for events. Was hoping there were other ways to get other in game.
I mean..the fact that fans have to make their own meta tells you how shitty the "official" ones are. (And how popular that fan meta is) Honestly, I seriously wonder wtf you are even doing on this site. Everytime I see you post it is either an attack on someone, or an attack on the site.
For those who aren't checking the Playthrough thread...
Affection is nigh-unavoidable now. Happiness caps don't exist like in SwSh.
Is this true? Does Milotic really get Calm Mind now?? Holy.
I just saw it's also stated at serebii that there is a character in the game who uses calm mind milotic. Yet it does not appear that milotic can learn calm mind by TM at all? This is very odd and puzzling.
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