Project Metagame Workshop (OM Submissions CLOSED)

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Metagame premise: Types get 'banned' at the start of the game depending on the name of the first Pokemon you switch in.
For example, if your first Pokemon is a Coalossal who's name is 'Rock', the Rock type will be banned that game. If a Pokemon or move is Rock type, it will be changed to typeless instead. This means that Coalossal becomes effectively a mono-Fire Pokemon, and any Rock moves that exist will be changed to typeless instead, meaning it can effectively remove one of it's own weaknesses as well, while also removing a possible attacking type.

But this is just a light idea, as I think there's a lot to think about in terms of balancing.


Potential Strategies: I'm not quite sure! Like the example, Pokemon who are weak to a type may appreciate the removal of it, especially if it can help in multiple ways as it would with Coalossal. Alternatively, Pokemon who hit for immunities may also become better, as they could be named to ban said types from the game. Even if not removing an immunity, removing a resistance can also be effective. Landorus-Therian, for instance, could ban the Flying type by being named Flying. This changes it somewhat defensively, now having a Rock resistance, no longer immune to Ground, and less weak to ice, while becoming neutral against fighting. Offensively, Landorus can use Earthquake without worry anymore. On the topic of hitting immunities, you could name Pokemon according types so that moves such as Volt Switch, Nuzzle, Rapid Spin, Scorching Sands, and Future Sight can always at least hit a target, making them harder to play around.

Type-dependent strategies such as Weather or Terrain may become lesser in use, due to it being easier to ban those from the game, thus making abilities such as Drizzle, Steelworker or Psychic Surge much less useful.

Questions for the community: Should Pokemon be able to be named 2 types (Rock/Water for example) to ban instead? This could increase the number of possible strategies created, but can also make games somewhat less useable for your opponent. The only reason I ask this though is that Pokemon have up to two types, and for this meta it would stand to make sense then that up to 2 types can get banned. (With this idea, you could still just ban 1 if you want.)

How does this metagame sound in terms of fun? I think the most challenge comes at team preview, where you really need to gauge what types your opponent may ban in order to win the game.
 

Ducky

Aw Phooey
is a Contributor to Smogon
Metagame premise: Types get 'banned' at the start of the game depending on the name of the first Pokemon you switch in.
For example, if your first Pokemon is a Coalossal who's name is 'Rock', the Rock type will be banned that game. If a Pokemon or move is Rock type, it will be changed to typeless instead. This means that Coalossal becomes effectively a mono-Fire Pokemon, and any Rock moves that exist will be changed to typeless instead, meaning it can effectively remove one of it's own weaknesses as well, while also removing a possible attacking type.

But this is just a light idea, as I think there's a lot to think about in terms of balancing.


Potential Strategies: I'm not quite sure! Like the example, Pokemon who are weak to a type may appreciate the removal of it, especially if it can help in multiple ways as it would with Coalossal. Alternatively, Pokemon who hit for immunities may also become better, as they could be named to ban said types from the game. Even if not removing an immunity, removing a resistance can also be effective. Landorus-Therian, for instance, could ban the Flying type by being named Flying. This changes it somewhat defensively, now having a Rock resistance, no longer immune to Ground, and less weak to ice, while becoming neutral against fighting. Offensively, Landorus can use Earthquake without worry anymore. On the topic of hitting immunities, you could name Pokemon according types so that moves such as Volt Switch, Nuzzle, Rapid Spin, Scorching Sands, and Future Sight can always at least hit a target, making them harder to play around.

Type-dependent strategies such as Weather or Terrain may become lesser in use, due to it being easier to ban those from the game, thus making abilities such as Drizzle, Steelworker or Psychic Surge much less useful.

Questions for the community: Should Pokemon be able to be named 2 types (Rock/Water for example) to ban instead? This could increase the number of possible strategies created, but can also make games somewhat less useable for your opponent. The only reason I ask this though is that Pokemon have up to two types, and for this meta it would stand to make sense then that up to 2 types can get banned. (With this idea, you could still just ban 1 if you want.)

How does this metagame sound in terms of fun? I think the most challenge comes at team preview, where you really need to gauge what types your opponent may ban in order to win the game.
this just seems like the biggest matchup fish format ever, especially if you can "ban" 2 types. Also in general, just seems like as awkward format to play and build, as it mostly takes away options for Pokemon rather than then giving more options. What if you built a team around "banning" the Ground-type for you electric spam team, just to have your opponent ban electric types? Now most of your Pokemon have lost their STAB attacks that the team was built around. Also, how would stealth rocks work if someone "banned" the rock type?
 
this just seems like the biggest matchup fish format ever, especially if you can "ban" 2 types. Also in general, just seems like as awkward format to play and build, as it mostly takes away options for Pokemon rather than then giving more options. What if you built a team around "banning" the Ground-type for you electric spam team, just to have your opponent ban electric types? Now most of your Pokemon have lost their STAB attacks that the team was built around. Also, how would stealth rocks work if someone "banned" the rock type?
In general, being mono typed is a hard way to play. You will lose STAB, but you also lose Ground Weakness, and can hit Grass and Dragon Pokemon neutrally. As I stated, type-dependent strategies may not be as viable, though I didn't mention this as a reason either. You will generally have to be more versatile, whilst adaptive. Additionally, you can still have up to six Pokemon, meaning you can ban one of 6 different types per game (or 2 of 12-ish, if 2 bans)

You don't have to ban only an opponent's type, either, but you will generally be banning at least based on an opponent's Pokemon's type. Against an Electric team, youd probably ban the Electric type for their loss of STAB and not hitting you super effectively, though you can also ban Water or Flying, allowing your Grass, Dragon, Ground, and other Electric Pokemon the ability to resist Electric attacks.

I don't really think this takes away much options either. I thought this at first, but the idea that you can Drive your Pokemon advtanges in allowing them to hit types they otherwise couldn't sounded appealing. Granted, STAB may be lost, but you can at least hit them. Being able to take away types even from your own Pokemon can also be useful, letting you change how the Pokemon could work, such as removing Flying when Rotom-Fan is on your team. Air Slash may not hit as STAB, though you also get to take advantage of Levitate now, as long as Ground is not banned.

But you do have me wondering- should Typeless moves gain STAB if the Pokemon is Typeless in general? This may only apply to single-typed Pokemon in the base idea (or most Pokemon under 2 bans), but this can mean you can still get good offensive use out of removing a type- hitting what would've been resistances but no longer hitting weakness, without the loss of STAB. Im pretty sure this isnt currently how it works with Typeless Pokemon and Struggle, but I think that simple change could make the format more fun to build for offensively.


I'm not sure how Stealth Rocks work. If Rock was banned, the Rock type doesn't exist anymore, so I'm thinking since there's no Rock coverage for Stealth Rocks to look for, it would also become typeless damage.
 
But you do have me wondering- should Typeless moves gain STAB if the Pokemon is Typeless in general? This may only apply to single-typed Pokemon in the base idea (or most Pokemon under 2 bans), but this can mean you can still get good offensive use out of removing a type- hitting what would've been resistances but no longer hitting weakness, without the loss of STAB. Im pretty sure this isnt currently how it works with Typeless Pokemon and Struggle, but I think that simple change could make the format more fun to build for offensively.


I'm not sure how Stealth Rocks work. If Rock was banned, the Rock type doesn't exist anymore, so I'm thinking since there's no Rock coverage for Stealth Rocks to look for, it would also become typeless damage.
On cart, typeless Pokemon do not get STAB from typeless moves. I don't think you should change that, both because it keeps the OM to just the one change, and also because "DragMag but you don't need the Mag and also it doesn't have to be Drag" doesn't sound interesting to play with or against.

I would also keep Stealth Rock as it is. All "banning" a type does is make Pokemon and moves of that type typeless (or monotype, you get it). Stealth Rock's effect has nothing to do with the move itself being Rock-type, so it shouldn't have any special change.
 

Ducky

Aw Phooey
is a Contributor to Smogon
I don't really think this takes away much options either.
The whole premise is getting rid of types.

can hit Grass and Dragon Pokemon neutrally
Granted, STAB may be lost, but you can at least hit them.
Putting these together because they mean they exact same thing. In both of these cases, why wouldnt you rather keep your electric type and use a coverage move to hit these Pokemon.

Drive your Pokemon advtanges in allowing them to hit types they otherwise couldn't sounded appealing.
Just saying, there is a reason Pokemon learn moves of other types.

Anyways, we can argue all you want but in reality this doesn't add anything new, just takes things away.
 
Metagame premise: Types get 'banned' at the start of the game depending on the name of the first Pokemon you switch in.
For example, if your first Pokemon is a Coalossal who's name is 'Rock', the Rock type will be banned that game. If a Pokemon or move is Rock type, it will be changed to typeless instead. This means that Coalossal becomes effectively a mono-Fire Pokemon, and any Rock moves that exist will be changed to typeless instead, meaning it can effectively remove one of it's own weaknesses as well, while also removing a possible attacking type.

But this is just a light idea, as I think there's a lot to think about in terms of balancing.


Potential Strategies: I'm not quite sure! Like the example, Pokemon who are weak to a type may appreciate the removal of it, especially if it can help in multiple ways as it would with Coalossal. Alternatively, Pokemon who hit for immunities may also become better, as they could be named to ban said types from the game. Even if not removing an immunity, removing a resistance can also be effective. Landorus-Therian, for instance, could ban the Flying type by being named Flying. This changes it somewhat defensively, now having a Rock resistance, no longer immune to Ground, and less weak to ice, while becoming neutral against fighting. Offensively, Landorus can use Earthquake without worry anymore. On the topic of hitting immunities, you could name Pokemon according types so that moves such as Volt Switch, Nuzzle, Rapid Spin, Scorching Sands, and Future Sight can always at least hit a target, making them harder to play around.

Type-dependent strategies such as Weather or Terrain may become lesser in use, due to it being easier to ban those from the game, thus making abilities such as Drizzle, Steelworker or Psychic Surge much less useful.

Questions for the community: Should Pokemon be able to be named 2 types (Rock/Water for example) to ban instead? This could increase the number of possible strategies created, but can also make games somewhat less useable for your opponent. The only reason I ask this though is that Pokemon have up to two types, and for this meta it would stand to make sense then that up to 2 types can get banned. (With this idea, you could still just ban 1 if you want.)

How does this metagame sound in terms of fun? I think the most challenge comes at team preview, where you really need to gauge what types your opponent may ban in order to win the game.
I like the whole typeless part of the metagame, but I think the mechanic could simply be what ever Pokemon is out removes the typing.
So if you had “Rock” Coalossal out, Rock would become neutralized defensively and offensively, but switching into something like “Electric” Gyarados, Electric is now typeless and Rock gets its attributes back.
 
Not gonna lie I would play a meta with lv5 mons (like Little Cup) BUT allowing base and fully evolved Pokémon too, as well as legendaries
I think it would be better than the stats madness that would be lv1
Thats been a thought too but i got worried it would be just “LC BUT WITH EVOLVED MONS” i would love that meta
 
The whole premise is getting rid of types.



Putting these together because they mean they exact same thing. In both of these cases, why wouldnt you rather keep your electric type and use a coverage move to hit these Pokemon.


Just saying, there is a reason Pokemon learn moves of other types.

Anyways, we can argue all you want but in reality this doesn't add anything new, just takes things away.
I actually do agree that you probably would just go an use a coverage move. This is why I suggested adding STAB to typeless moves for typeless Pokemon, though I think that may be a stretch. This way, at least more often than not, your original move would still be stronger than coverage even if its type were removed. Of course, you won't be able to hit weakness with it anymore, but the idea of at least intentionally removing the type from your own pokemon is that you also dont hit immunity or resistance. If you kept STAB, this becomes slightly more appealing of a choice.

Taking things away can normally only take away options, but not necessarily in the case of types. By removing a type, you'll take away some of the Pokemon's Resistances, Immunities, and types it can hit for weakness. However, you also take away its own Weaknesses and types it hits for Resistance. Especially for types like Bug or Normal, this can be pretty helpful offensively. Defensively, it can work as well, with Ice not being nearly as frail as it was, and only losing its resistance to itself- which in that specific case, would require the removal of the ice type anyway lol.

I do think I should think about this meta more. I think more interaction and somehow keeping STAB can work. Maybe the metagame only removes the type effectiveness, but not the type itself? This would allow type based strategies to still see work without removing things like STAB or say your Poisoned/Badly Poisoned Immunity if Steel or Poison type.

I like the whole typeless part of the metagame, but I think the mechanic could simply be what ever Pokemon is out removes the typing.
So if you had “Rock” Coalossal out, Rock would become neutralized defensively and offensively, but switching into something like “Electric” Gyarados, Electric is now typeless and Rock gets its attributes back.
I'd though about this a little bit, but seeing you explain it it sounds a little bit better than the original premise, lol. I think that may add a lot of depth to the metagame, but may also make it a little frustrating as you would never be able to super easily know what an opponent could be naming their mons, which could be annoying.

The other option I thought about was, in tandem with typeless gaining the option of STAB, this metagame working like Shared Power, wherein switching in the Pokemon removes that type permanently, but it doesnt just work from your first mon.
 
This is why I suggested adding STAB to typeless moves for typeless Pokemon, though I think that may be a stretch. This way, at least more often than not, your original move would still be stronger than coverage even if its type were removed. Of course, you won't be able to hit weakness with it anymore, but the idea of at least intentionally removing the type from your own pokemon is that you also dont hit immunity or resistance. If you kept STAB, this becomes slightly more appealing of a choice.

The other option I thought about was, in tandem with typeless gaining the option of STAB, this metagame working like Shared Power, wherein switching in the Pokemon removes that type permanently, but it doesnt just work from your first mon.
:ss/haxorus:
Dragon (Haxorus) @ Life Orb
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Outrage
- Dragon Claw
- Scale Shot
- Swords Dance

:ss/xurkitree:
Electric (Xurkitree) @ Choice Specs / Scarf
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Thunder
- Discharge

I seriously cannot stress how bad of an idea giving typeless Pokemon STAB on typeless moves is.
 

Ducky

Aw Phooey
is a Contributor to Smogon
Defensively, it can work as well, with Ice not being nearly as frail as it was, and only losing its resistance to itself- which in that specific case, would require the removal of the ice type anyway lol.
but the reason ice types are good is that they are a great offensive type
This way, at least more often than not, your original move would still be stronger than coverage even if its type were removed. Of course, you won't be able to hit weakness with it anymore, but the idea of at least intentionally removing the type from your own pokemon is that you also dont hit immunity or resistance. If you kept STAB, this becomes slightly more appealing of a choice.
252 SpA Raikou Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 162-192 (42.4 - 50.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (changed raikou and tbolt to ghost type)
252 SpA Raikou Scald vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 192-228 (50.2 - 59.6%) -- 82.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

For your point about the moves being stronger if the typeless moves got STAB, the STAB moves would have to be considerably stronger (~25%) than the coverage moves
The other option I thought about was, in tandem with typeless gaining the option of STAB, this metagame working like Shared Power, wherein switching in the Pokemon removes that type permanently, but it doesnt just work from your first mon.
Don't even get me started on how not fun this would be
 
I actually do agree that you probably would just go an use a coverage move. This is why I suggested adding STAB to typeless moves for typeless Pokemon, though I think that may be a stretch. This way, at least more often than not, your original move would still be stronger than coverage even if its type were removed. Of course, you won't be able to hit weakness with it anymore, but the idea of at least intentionally removing the type from your own pokemon is that you also dont hit immunity or resistance. If you kept STAB, this becomes slightly more appealing of a choice.

Taking things away can normally only take away options, but not necessarily in the case of types. By removing a type, you'll take away some of the Pokemon's Resistances, Immunities, and types it can hit for weakness. However, you also take away its own Weaknesses and types it hits for Resistance. Especially for types like Bug or Normal, this can be pretty helpful offensively. Defensively, it can work as well, with Ice not being nearly as frail as it was, and only losing its resistance to itself- which in that specific case, would require the removal of the ice type anyway lol.

I do think I should think about this meta more. I think more interaction and somehow keeping STAB can work. Maybe the metagame only removes the type effectiveness, but not the type itself? This would allow type based strategies to still see work without removing things like STAB or say your Poisoned/Badly Poisoned Immunity if Steel or Poison type.


I'd though about this a little bit, but seeing you explain it it sounds a little bit better than the original premise, lol. I think that may add a lot of depth to the metagame, but may also make it a little frustrating as you would never be able to super easily know what an opponent could be naming their mons, which could be annoying.

The other option I thought about was, in tandem with typeless gaining the option of STAB, this metagame working like Shared Power, wherein switching in the Pokemon removes that type permanently, but it doesnt just work from your first mon.
I think the metagame should just stick with removing 1-2 types at once, and maybe only having it for defensive typing.
In PLA, Arceus gets access to an improved version of Judgement that automatically makes it so you hit the target super effectively, which is also similar to Shadow Moves in the GCN games as well.
With typeless moves, while not super effective 100% of the time, allow you to just use 1 move for coverage and rest being used for utility, which is going to harm creativity a lot more than it would sound like on paper.
I think the better solution to this problem would be to make the move unselectable or to not have the game to apply the mechanic to your own moves. So “Rock” Coalossal would be pure Fire, and Stone Edge or Meteor Beam would still be Rock type moves instead of Typeless, while an opposing “Water” Tyranitar would be Pure Dark and its Stone Edge would be typeless instead.
This would prevent 1 Universal Coverage+3 Utility movesets since you can’t reliably remove your owm move’s type.
 
Metagame premise: The move in your first slot applies the secondary effects of its Max and G-Max versions.
:ss/Charizard:
Charizard @ Choice Specs
Ability: Solar Power
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower
- Weather Ball
- Overheat
- Focus Blast
Here is a pretty standard Charizard. It has Flamethrower in the first moveslot. This Flamethrower still has 90 BP, 100 Accuracy, and a 10% chance to burn, but additionally will set Sun if hit successfully like Max Flare would.
:ss/Charizard-Gmax:
Charizard @ Choice Specs
Ability: Solar Power
Gigantamax: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower
- Weather Ball
- Overheat
- Focus Blast
Here is also Charizard, but now with G-Max. So instead of Flamethrower setting Sun, all non-Fire types take 1/6th damage for 4 turns.

This Metagame would be what MnM was for Gen 6 and what Ultimate Z was for Gen 7, but with Gen 8.
Potential bans and threats:
:Muk: :hitmonchan: :pidgeot:
The effects of Max-Ooze, Max-Knuckle, and Max-Airstream are all extremely overpowered when they were limited to 3 turns, so these moves would definitely need to be restricted.

:Gengar-gmax:
Gengar has access to G-Max Terror. G-Max Terror will trap any opponent that isn't Normal or immune to Trapping like Ghosts (which are weak to Ghost moves).

:Bisharp:
Probably one of the best Pokemon in the entire Metagame with its ability Defiant, Sucker Punch, Steel Spike, and Dark/Steel typing. It can punish Flutterby U-turns, Strike Facade/Body Slams/Rapid Spin give it a defiant boost, Wyrmwind Break Swipe/Scale Shot/Clanging Scale are resisted and boost Defiant, Phantasm Shadow Sneaks/Poltergeist and Darkness Dark Pulses similarly are resisted too. A new hazard and easier aurora veil also means Bisharp can switch into more Defogs in this meta.

:Raichu-Alola:
Raichu-A becomes one of the strongest Electric types in the tier thanks to Max Lightning Rising Voltage and Volt Switch. It can set up the Terrain it abuses by using Rising Voltage or have one of many Volt Switch users set terrain while it switches in to be immediately threatening. If Tapu Lele or Rillaboom switch into Raichu’s Rising Voltage, they lose their terrains, and Raichu is naturally faster than Lele too. Raichu-A also gains access to Grass Knot and STAB Psychic to deal with Ground types that otherwise block Rising Voltage.

:snorlax-gmax:
Snorlax having ways to restore its own berry while attacking, which like Alcremie, would be it incredibly hard to kill

:pikachu-gmax:
Pikachu may seem weak, but every electric move paralyzes the target, and that might not be competitive.

:hawlucha: :regieleki:
With regular Volt Switch, you can set terrain with any Pokemon that learns that move, so Hawlucha and Regieleki have easy access to Electric Terrain for Unburden and Rising Voltage Spam (and they can set it themselves too).

:Barraskewda: :Excadrill:
Like with Hawlucha, Swift Swimmers and Sand Rushers can set their own weathers, with Swift Swim also having Flip Turn support too. Barraskewda and Excadrill being the biggest threats.

:toxtricity-gmax:
Like Pikachu, but can poison the opponent instead, which is less more competitive tbh but is also on a much better Pokemon.

:centiskorch-gmax: :sandaconda-gmax:
Like with G-Max Terror, these guys can trap the foe with their STAB moves on moves much stronger than Fire Spin and Sand Tomb

:Butterfree-Gmax:
G-Max Befuddle is also potentially uncompetitive strategy I forgot to mention as it has 3 different status effects that also happen to be attatched to a Pivot Move in U-turn. Butterfree is the weakest between Pikachu and Toxtricity, but a 33% chance to Sleep while using U-turn could be strong (or not since Tapu Koko exists and it can only pull this off against something like Blissey or Choice Locked Pokemon).

:charizard-gmax: :Blastoise-gmax: :venusaur-gmax:
Blastoise got Shell Smash in Gen 8, and while still walled by Toxapex, Ferrothorn doesn’t like taking 1/6th health every turn for not being part Water.
Venusaur is absolutely a monster in sun, especially with G-Max Vine Lash heavily damaging Non-grass types, while also packing Weather Ball and Sludge Bomb for Grass types.
Charizard can deal with Tyranitar better by either removing the Sand it sets while it switches in, or making sure Tyranitar takes heavy chip damage on its way in, but still has limited options for Heatran.

:Kingler-Gmax: :obstagoon:
While Kingler is often overlooked even with its G-Max form, Foam Burst is actually pretty threatening on it. A Life Orb Sheer Force Liquidation hits really hard, and when you can lower the switch-in’s speed by 2 stages, something like Zerarora no longer outspeeds Kingler, which is actually insane.
Same thing with Obstagoon’s Facade. Any non-Ghosts and the likes of Regieleki become immediately slower switching in, and the Ghosts don’t like Guts boosted Knock Offs either.

Questions for the community:
Should G-Max Pokemon be tier separately from their regular counterparts?
How should problematic Max moves be dealt with?
Would another form of restriction be better than the effects applying to the first move slot?
Should status moves gain the effects of Max moves, or just be restricted?
 
Last edited:
Metagame premise: The move in your first slot applies the secondary effects of its Max and G-Max versions.
:ss/Charizard:
Charizard @ Choice Specs
Ability: Solar Power
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower
- Weather Ball
- Overheat
- Focus Blast
Here is a pretty standard Charizard. It has Flamethrower in the first moveslot. This Flamethrower still has 90 BP, 100 Accuracy, and a 10% chance to burn, but additionally will set Sun if hit successfully like Max Flare would.
:ss/Charizard-Gmax:
Charizard @ Choice Specs
Ability: Solar Power
Gigantamax: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower
- Weather Ball
- Overheat
- Focus Blast
Here is also Charizard, but now with G-Max. So instead of Flamethrower setting Sun, all non-Fire types take 1/6th damage for 4 turns.

This Metagame would be what MnM was for Gen 6 and what Ultimate Z was for Gen 7, but with Gen 8.
Potential bans and threats:
:Muk: :hitmonchan: :pidgeot:
The effects of Max-Ooze, Max-Knuckle, and Max-Airstream are all extremely overpowered when they were limited to 3 turns, so these moves would definitely need to be restricted.

:Gengar-gmax:
Gengar has access to G-Max Terror. G-Max Terror will trap any opponent that isn't Normal or immune to Trapping like Ghosts (which are weak to Ghost moves).

:alcremie-gmax:
Alcremie would get the effect of G-Max Final, which is essentially the opposite of the Kanto Starter G-Max moves, which heals itself for 1/6th HP every time it uses a Fairy move in the first slot.

:snorlax-gmax:
Snorlax having ways to restore its own berry while attacking, which like Alcremie, would be it incredibly hard to kill

:pikachu-gmax:
Pikachu may seem weak, but every electric move paralyzes the target, and that might not be competitive.

:hawlucha: :regieleki:
With regular Volt Switch, you can set terrain with any Pokemon that learns that move, so Hawlucha and Regieleki have easy access to Electric Terrain for Unburden and Rising Voltage Spam (and they can set it themselves too).
Questions for the community:
Should G-Max Pokemon be tier separately from their regular counterparts?
How should problematic Max moves be dealt with?
Would another form of restriction be better than the effects applying to the first move slot?
Should status moves gain the effects of Max moves, or just be restricted?
:ss/hydreigon::ss/mimikyu::ss/marowak-alola::ss/aegislash:
Special Dark-types and physical Ghost-types become incredibly potent wallbreakers, as their STABs lower the target's defenses.

:ss/corviknight-gmax:
Compressing Defog and Brave Bird gives Corviknight an extra moveslot to work with.

:ss/copperajah-gmax:
Now that setting Stealth Steel no longer has such a massive opportunity cost, maybe it'll see some use.

It won't see use.




:ss/butterfree-gmax:
U-turn inflicting a random status effect has the potential to be very annoying.

:ss/rillaboom-gmax: (why does these forums not have any of the Gmax mons added in Isle of Armor?)
Do the Galar starters keep their Gmax effect of setting the move's base power to 160? I don't know if that's a special effect of the move or if its lookup table for how strong it should be is just all 160. If they keep that effect, then Grassy Glide becomes even more absurd.
 
Do the Galar starters keep their Gmax effect of setting the move's base power to 160? I don't know if that's a special effect of the move or if its lookup table for how strong it should be is just all 160. If they keep that effect, then Grassy Glide becomes even more absurd
The way I see it, other Max and G-Max moves change their BP based on a condition, similar to how Gyro Ball or Water Spout will change its BP on the fly. The Galar Starters have set BP like most other moves do. On Bulbapedia, you can see that G-Max Drum Solo has 160 BP, while Max Ooze has - BP.
So I think it should just be Mold Breaker effects on moves, but I would like to hear what other people would think about it.
 
Another approach might be that each team member can "boost" one move each by ticking the "Dynamax" option at the appropriate time.
I think once per game for each Pokemon would be too Vanilla imo and this would make Strike, Quake, Flutterby, Phantasm, Steelspike, Wyrmwind, Darkness, and many G-Max moves awful. Defensive Pokemon, while can still use them, aren’t as effective with them when you can only use them once.
 
:ss/barraskewda::ss/milotic::ss/kingdra:

A huge reason for why Pelipper is such an effective weather setter is because of its access to U-turn, which allows it to pivot out to rain abusers after setting it up. Flip Turn can set up rain and pivot at the same time, and I'm pretty sure it buys you an extra rain turn in the process.
 
:ss/Bisharp:
Bisharp @ Black Glasses
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Iron Head
- Swords Dance
- Sucker Punch
- Knock Off
Bisharp actually looks good in this Max Move metagame. It may not be able to punish Corviknight Defogging hazards when Corviknight has G-Max Wind Rage, it does however still punish all other Defogs (which will be more common when G-Mac Steelsurge sets up a new hazard), Max Strikes, Max Wyrmwinds, Max Darkness, Max Phantasm, and especially Max Flutterby. Any U-turn that is in the first slot is now something an easy means for Bisharp to get instant +2 Attack for free. Any Breaking Swipe tactics just mean Defiant is boosted Twice. Explosion will lower Bisharp’s Speed at little damage while raising Atk, and Bisharp has priority anyways. And Max Phantasm/Darkness are resisted by Bisharp too.
On top of that, Bisharp gets Steelspikes that has a 30% flinch chance, making its great Defense better each use.

:ss/Crawdaunt:
Crawdaunt @ Choice Band
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Aqua Jet/Crabhammer
- Knock Off
- Crabhammer/Aqua Jet
- Close Combat
Crawdaunt becomes a massive threat in this meta thanks to it getting to set its own Rain with Adaptability boosted Water moves, including priority. Anything that switches in better hope they can take a Rain boosted Aqua Jet next turn. If Crawdaunt does 40% or more, and the opponent lacks priority, Crawdaunt KOs it. Aqua Jet also lets Crawdaunt let Rain as a last hail mary before fainting and letting its partners abuse the rain.

:ss/Raichu-alola:
Raichu-Alola @ Life Orb
Ability: Surge Surfer
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rising Voltage
- Nasty Plot
- Psychic
- Grass Knot
Alolan Raichu is part of the few Pokemon that can double its speed in 1 turn while attacking and also use Rising Voltage for the Max Slot. Not relying on other setters like Tapu Koko and can remove opposing terrain on the switch makes Alolan Raichu a huge threat.
 
Multi-hits are fun.

:ss/garchomp:
Scale Shot's Defense drop is made up for by it tanking the opponent's Attack stat.

:ss/heracross:
Arm Thrust is like Mega Kangaskhan Power-Up Punch on crack. Not only does it massively boost your Attack, but it can potentially now deal respectable damage thanks to it boosting your Attack mid-move. Instead of having an effective base power of 30 / 45 / 60 / 75 (depending on how many times it hits), it has an effective base power of 37.5 / 67.5 / 105 / 150, that's the first time you use it.
 
:ss/heracross:
Arm Thrust is like Mega Kangaskhan Power-Up Punch on crack. Not only does it massively boost your Attack, but it can potentially now deal respectable damage thanks to it boosting your Attack mid-move. Instead of having an effective base power of 30 / 45 / 60 / 75 (depending on how many times it hits), it has an effective base power of 37.5 / 67.5 / 105 / 150, that's the first time you use it.
It would only increase the stat once, and Fighting Moves, along with Poison and Flying moves, are likely going to be restricted from slot 1.
 
It would only increase the stat once
That's not how secondary effects work. Scale Shot and Clanging Scales are special cases. Every other secondary effect activates per hit, specifically the ones where the secondary effect is grafted onto a move. King's Rock, Poison Touch, Parental Bond PuP, they all activate per hit instead of per move.
 
That's not how secondary effects work. Scale Shot and Clanging Scales are special cases. Every other secondary effect activates per hit, specifically the ones where the secondary effect is grafted onto a move. King's Rock, Poison Touch, Parental Bond PuP, they all activate per hit instead of per move.
Looking at Showdown's source code, King's Rock, Poison Touch, and Power-up Punch are all "secondary" effects or apply secondary effects, while Scale Shot and Clanging Scales are "selfBoost".
For Max Moves have "self" effects, which is a weird distinction, but it's why Sheer Force does not work with Max Moves.
You can check it here;
moves
items
abilities
You can also tell since Power-up Punch says it has a 100% chance to raise Attack and has Secondary Effect label, while moves like Sword Dance or Scale Shot just say they they raise or lower the respective stats.

Also still wondering what people think Status moves should do in this meta? Should they do nothing, have the effects of the regular attacking type, or be Max Guard? The Do nothing and Max Guard scenarios are distinct since a full status moveset would likely be banned with Max Guard.
 
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Ducky

Aw Phooey
is a Contributor to Smogon
I just had an idea: Flipped Inverse. I don't know if this would be amazing or go horribly wrong, but I do know that Avalugg is prominent in both.
Cool idea, but this actually falls under OMMs (Other Metagames Mashups), which combine two different OMs into a completely different format. We have a room on Showdown where tours are hosted all of the time, and you can 100% ask for Flipped Inverse there.
 
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