Unpopular opinions

[Arkm]

https://www.smogon.com/dex/ss/pokemon/pheromosa/

Hot takes aside, I think you underestimate how scary glass cannon pokemon can be in this game :P

Pheromosa is in a near unmatched speed tier outpacing, better move pools, stab close combat and u turn, higher attack stats and versatility(it could run mix or special sets). Plus beast boost which make it scarier after it gets a KO. Something like Tapu fini or defensive buzzwole shuts tough claws Weavile pretty hard.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

As for the second most competitive players says that Lando is too OP and should be banned from OU.

If most competitive players actually said that Lando is too OP and should be banned from OU... he'd be banned from OU. The only people you hear complaining about Lando in singles are scrubs.

This is the unpopular opinion thread in a subforum dedicated to non-competitive Pokemon. It is not the "constantly spew horrible game balance takes" thread.

 

[KalosianPorygon]

Broke: Complaining about Thunder Armor in the anime

Woke: Watching the French dub of this episode and be mad at Sandstorm being mistranslated as "Orage-Sable" instead of "Tempête de Sable".

Source: I'm French and a bit of a Grammar N*zi

 

[Arkm]

If most competitive players actually said that Lando is too OP and should be banned from OU... he'd be banned from OU. The only people you hear complaining about Lando in singles are scrubs.

This is the unpopular opinion thread in a subforum dedicated to non-competitive Pokemon. It is not the "constantly spew horrible game balance takes" thread.

i was not the one taling about game balance lol. I only said that many pokemon abilities are not congurent with their designs

 

[SpiritGuy]

Pheromosa is in a near unmatched speed tier outpacing, better move pools, stab close combat and u turn, higher attack stats and versatility(it could run mix or special sets). Plus beast boost which make it scarier after it gets a KO. Something like Tapu fini or defensive buzzwole shuts tough claws Weavile pretty hard.

Not that much.


252+ Atk Choice Band Tough Claws Weavile Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Buzzwole: 228-270 (54.5 - 64.5%) -- approx. 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Tough Claws Weavile Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tapu Fini: 129-153 (37.5 - 44.4%) -- approx. 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Yeah, there's only Tapu Fini (and eventually Toxapex) that could afford against a CB Tough Claws Weavile (because yeah, SD set is even more menacing)

Also:

Because it's a cool mon.

If you wanna buff some mon u should buff someone that would catch public eye? Will anybody care if Kricketune was buffed?

But yeah mons like Electivire and Starmie need buffs before Weavile.

No matter its popularity amongst the community, if a Pokemon is efficient, it'll be used. Remind what happened when Pelipper and Torkoal got their new abilities.

 

[Nitro Indigo]

Not every Pokémon needs to be a dual-type.

 

[Dusk Mage Necrozma]

i was not the one taling about game balance lol. I only said that many pokemon abilities are not congurent with their designs

Yes you were. You said that Tough Claws Weavile would be a good thing for the metagame because it would make Lando worse.

Because it's a cool mon.

If you wanna buff some mon u should buff someone that would catch public eye? Will anybody care if Kricketune was buffed?

But yeah mons like Electivire and Starmie need buffs before Weavile.

But that’s not the point of buffs. Buffs are for making bad mons decent, not decent mons better.

 

[QuentinQuonce]

Not every Pokémon needs to be a dual-type.

As long as the standard size of each new generation remains ~80 Pokemon, I think the vast majority of them will be.

 

[Samtendo09]

Not every Pokémon needs to be a dual-type.

I rather have 80% of new Pokémon being dual typed than a repeat of Gen 8 where there were too many single-type despite the ~80 Pokémon. It’s already bad as is to see so little unused, rare or Form-exclusive (including the discarded Megas) type combinations due to numerous single-typed Pokémon; it’s another thing when there’s too many mono-Fighting in a single generation despite the uniqueness between in terms of body structure.

 

[Coronis]

Not that much.


252+ Atk Choice Band Tough Claws Weavile Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Buzzwole: 228-270 (54.5 - 64.5%) -- approx. 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Tough Claws Weavile Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tapu Fini: 129-153 (37.5 - 44.4%) -- approx. 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Yeah, there's only Tapu Fini (and eventually Toxapex) that could afford against a CB Tough Claws Weavile (because yeah, SD set is even more menacing)

Also:


No matter its popularity amongst the community, if a Pokemon is efficient, it'll be used. Remind what happened when Pelipper and Torkoal got their new abilities.

This is what I come to OI for.

 

[Ransei]

Hey, where did you find this quote? Is it official?

As for Gimmicks, it's funny how contentious they are in the video games, but in the TCG, no-one seem to have issues with format-specific special Pokémon like Pokémon-EX. At worst, they would say Crystal Pokémon from Aquapolia and Skyridge are competitively unviable, and even then, there are fans of the concept, also they fetch for decent prices online.

And speaking of cards, Pokémon-GX are overall my favorite special Pokémon card group, they are both strong and interesting, I loved how the Z-Move mechanic was adapted to this different medium. I don't like when special Pokémon cards are just "stronger than usual, if it faints your opponent draw two prize cards".

I made up the quote.

 

[pika pal]

This is however where market comes into play.

Gimmicks are necessary.

When it comes to extremely long running series, eventually you need to add something to keep the game interesting. Just adding "more pokemon" would eventually just cause the game to become stale because it'd be just always the same with different faces.

This isn't strictly limited to Pokemon, in fact it's not limited to that kind of games either.

Card games, like for example YuGiOh, have had to keep adding new summoning mechanics and progressively more complicated archetypes to keep the game interesting.

While I don't inherently disagree with your base argument, I think Yu-gi-oh is a perfect example of how fast this approach can go wrong due to bloat or haphazard marketing/design choices.

Original YGO was, to put it lightly, an entirely different game. People make jokes about old players seeing the game now and losing before they literally get to make a play, which isn't the most inaccurate depiction of the gap as the game kind of went from slow back-and-forth as you'd see in the Anime to encouraging very big combos and explosive plays, and a large toolbox of combos/back-ups or disruptions to stop said combos even with those back-ups.

A big part of this change was the addition of easier and easier to access summon mechanics, each of which was sort of the gimmick for a given series of YGO (sort of comparable to Pokemon Gens in that respect).

Not Brief Summary of Children's Card Game Mechanics

• OG: Ruleset's still being worked out, Special Summon methods including Fusion (use a Fusion Card + 2 Materials to summon from the Extra Deck off to the side) and Ritual (use specific Spell and have the Ritual, then more generic tribute cost to summon it) were slow and tricky to access, probably to tie into their anime usage as surprise/comeback Boss Monsters for particularly big duels.
• GX: Fusion was elevated a bit more here to serving as the primary mechanic of a lot of characters, whether in its classic form or with variants like "Contact Fusion" on later seasons (which in turn could be viewed as the pre-cursor to several later summon mechanics). While the majority of Fusion archetypes featured in the show still weren't that spectacular, the mechanic was approached somewhat reasonably, with different archetypes getting cards particular to them to facilitate Fusion and allow them to try and circumvent the usual shortcomings of Fusion (again to mixed results, but the idea was sort of there)
• 5D's: Here's where we get into Synchro Summons. Synchro monsters became much easier to access than previous Extra Monsters as they shifted from needing specific Fusion Spells and materials to usually just needing a category or two of monsters (EX: "Spellcaster" instead of specifically "Dark Magician") and one of the new Tuners, as long as their levels (the Stars on the monster) add up to match the monster being summoned. No need to hold onto unplayable/bricky Spells while assembling the materials, plus you had much easier access due to the less specific Materials asked for. As a result, while dedicated Synchro archetypes existed, older archetypes with Swarm potential could get into Synchro Spam if they found ways to work the Tuners into their build. TL;DR there being the mechanic was a bit more accessible to previous playstyles due to the laxer usage requirement
• Zexal: XYZ summons are where I think some of the problems really can start to pop-up. The gimmick of XYZ is that you overlay multiple monsters of the same "Level" in order to summon an XYZ Monster that uses them as Material/Ammo for triggering most of its strong effects. The trade-off here vs Synchro Summoning now appears to be not needing a Tuner monster, in exchange for more specific levels in the summoning. Where this could become tricky is that some XYZ monsters were extremely powerful relative to how easily they could be brought out, if not simply being busted in and of themselves, because it was common for a lot of archetypes to have their low level monsters serve as swarm material to get to their boss monsters. If those Swarmers were of similar levels (whether by coincidence, other design reasons, or simply lack of future-proofing), this could result in them being able to bring out XYZ monsters with significant ease and suddenly becoming a lot more powerful: One example, brought up a lot in my definitely limited exposure, being Level 4 WATER/Aqua heavy decks bringing out a monster called "Bahamut Shark", which in turn gave them easy access to a monster called "Toadally Awesome" with an, if not oppressive, very annoying degree of negates and reusability. TL;DR Here we see an even laxer restriction on the new mechanic giving it even more access, and more potential for old sets to start making big gains or exploitable use of the mechanic.
• ARC-V: I don't know much about Pendulum cards myself here, so limited input beyond trying to work out the mechanic rundown. Best I can glean is that they could be activated as Spells instead of monsters (with different effects depending on how), could be placed in the Extra Deck when they would usually go to the GY (Discard Pile), and had a mechanic where if you had two Pendulums with specific values in your Pendulum Zones, you could summon a bunch of monsters from your hand or Pendulums that went to the Extra Deck that fell in between those values (so if you had a 1 and a 6, you could summon things Level 2-5). This seems like another potential mechanic for absurd swarming, though it appears the mechanic got a lot of balance nerfs in subsequent Rulesets so I guess they at least saw this one got a bit over the top.
• VRAINS: Link Monsters are where I think a lot of the issues I described above came back with a vengeance. Link Monsters are summoned by simply sending a number of monsters equal to their "Link Rating" from the Field to the Discard Pile (Link Monsters can be used for another Link, counting as 1 or their own Link-Rating for their contribution). Bar more powerful or archetypal Monsters, the mechanic now simply comes down to the raw quantity. The Master Rule coinciding with this also introduced the Extra Summon Zone, where monsters summoned from the Extra Deck (Synchros, XYZ, Pendulums under certain conditions, and Links) had to either be placed in this Zone, or a Zone pointed to by a Link Monster's arrows. This was probably meant to push Link monsters and simultaneously Stymie Extra Deck Spam by limiting how easily they could be placed, but a lot of decks ended up turning into Link vomit since Links could be made with a lot of their would-be Synchro/XYZ materials. Additionally, the Link era happened to introduce some infamous Combo makers, such as "Crystron Halqifibrax" (Needlefiber) intended to assist Synchros but just turning into easy Link Vomit and Field presence (to the point of having an unpopular effect on Tuner monster bans/balance) from a combination of the card lacking restrictions on how easily it generated or allowed use of resources and several old cards it interacted with not being future-proofed for then-non-existent mechanics.

Bit of a long ramble, but the Hidden text plays a part in my point about these gimmicks: Slapping them onto the game without accounting for what the previous game mechanics and pieces might do is liable to blow up in the face of efforts toward a fun competitive scene (not even a balanced one, just enjoyable to play). I imagine that bloat is one reason Pokemon keeps tossing the gimmicks away after their Gen passes, and the dex paring does in theory make it easier to account for the new additions, but even within the confines of one Generation, this doesn't seem to go far enough for making the Meta of that one Gen play out gracefully, given Mega centralization in VGC (albeit this could just be the same as an OP normal-Pokemon) or the mess that Dynamax is in the game both Casual and Competitive.

They need to get smarter about this because at some point (if it hasn't already), this will also lose its oomph when the playerbase grows numb to the concept of Generational Gimmicks, in the same way they are probably worried about any specific or individual mechanic growing stale to prompt such quick turnover to begin with.

 

[QuentinQuonce]

I rather have 80% of new Pokémon being dual typed than a repeat of Gen 8 where there were too many single-type despite the ~80 Pokémon. It’s already bad as is to see so little unused, rare or Form-exclusive (including the discarded Megas) type combinations due to numerous single-typed Pokémon; it’s another thing when there’s too many mono-Fighting in a single generation despite the uniqueness between in terms of body structure.

Also, given that there are still a lot of unique dual-types, I don't mind seeing repeats of those for variety. IIRC there's only one instance, or at least one evolutionary line, of all the following type combinations:

Electric/Psychic
Rock/Poison
Fire/Steel
Dragon/Fighting
Poison/Flying
Normal/Water
Fighting/Ghost
Fire/Water

Probably others too, but those sprang to mind. It's all about how unique they feel from each other. Alolan Raichu, for instance, is quick and offensively-orientated, so if we got another Electric/Psychic-type that was bulky and slow, it'd feel fresh. There's still a few combinations restricted to legendaries like Fighting/Ghost and Fire/Water that should filter down to regular Pokemon.

 

[Worldie]

They need to get smarter about this because at some point (if it hasn't already), this will also lose its oomph when the playerbase grows numb to the concept of Generational Gimmicks, in the same way they are probably worried about any specific or individual mechanic growing stale to prompt such quick turnover to begin with.

To be fair... Pokemons gen 8 approach is actually somewhat better than what some of the others did, since if you keep introducing new mechanics *without carrying over the old ones*, well then the bloat issue doesn't happen I guess.

 

[pika pal]

To be fair... Pokemons gen 8 approach is actually somewhat better than what some of the others did, since if you keep introducing new mechanics *without carrying over the old ones*, well then the bloat issue doesn't happen I guess.

The quote you included to respond to in particular from my previous post I don't feel is addressed by dropping the old gimmicks in and of itself, when the issue is the constant introduction of new ones to the point there isn't "new toy" syndrome or novelty when they actually add them now. A very common sentiment I heard towards Dynamax, even among people who didn't like Megas and preferred their exclusion, was that Dynamax just looked like Megas but more boring (citing things like the unchanged designs outside Gigantamax and more generic Max Moves as power ups).

While I ranted a bit about mechanical bloat in the YGO comparison, the other point I brought in at the end is that eventually the addition of a new generational gimmick is going to lose oomph as a practice even on the marketing side. Revisiting the YGO case, besides the complication I also tend to see jokes about certain mechanics individually turning the game into Solitaire, or joking about other ridiculous summoning methods they could add, like fusing Spell Cards or Combining them by Attribute ala Alchemy, as satirical jabs at "okay what new Totally-Awesome summon gimmick will they try to sell this installment"? I think Pokemon is going to risk heading in this direction since the stale concerns are not about keeping the mechanics around, but simply making new ones repeatedly.

 

[Coronis]

Solitaire >>>>> Yugioh

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

A lot of mons should be nerfed.

Slaking and Regigigas wouldn't even be busted if they had some mid ability by this point. The power creep has been insane.

 

[superstrike66]

A lot of mons should be nerfed.

Slaking and Regigigas wouldn't even be busted if they had some mid ability by this point. The power creep has been insane.

I kinda agree. Regigigas has a pretty poor movepool, so I don't think it would be as strong as people would think. Slaking on the other hand, would still be insanely powerful as it learns excellent moves to back up its bonkers stats.

Just so this isn't a reply, I think that Conquest is the most overrated pokemon game. It's by no means bad, but I hear almost nothing but positive reviews when people talk about the game. Because this game is so highly praised, I was let down as I felt that it was an incredibly average tactics game with pokemon. The story is as by the books as you can get for one of these games and the campaign is equally as generic. I also dislike how the other character's side quest campaigns are mandatory to play through once you beat the main game. I wanted to continue with my character's story, and having to play through side quests first stopped me from finishing the post game. People sing the praises of many of the main series games as well, but I feel that there are a decent amount of people who have criticisms of the games As a result, I feel that the two sides counterbalance each other out.. With conquest, a much smaller amount of people have played the game and most seem to love it, which is why I find it to be the most overrated game in the franchise.

 

[Bakugames]

I think gamefreak could experiment with leaving the in-game pokemon the same, but on ranked battles, apply nerfs and buffs, and then applying them for real on the pokemon in the next generations. leaves the main gameplay untouched, but lets ranked battles have balance patches.

 

[Scorpio]

Slaking and Regigigas wouldn't even be busted if they had some mid ability by this point.

I still say just give them Stall as a HA. Moving last every turn is still miles better than what they have now, plus it gives hilariously good synergy with Hammer Arm.

 

[Eeveeto]

Regigigas actually is not that bad nowadays from the Competitive standpoint. It at last has Rest, so it can live all kind of hits (look at those defensive Stats, when invested only Fight and very boosted moves do relevant damage) and just use Restalk + Body Slam + Knock Off. This cripples opposing team and if Regigigas survives 5 turns on the field, it can actually do big damage.

Main problem aren,t even Fight Mons or Steel + Body Press Mons. Main problem are Tapu Fini and Tapu Koko, who don,t allow Regigigas to sleep with their terrains. Remove those 2 from the equation and with the right team Regigigas can shine.

I don,t think Regigigas needs another ability for this reason, it just needs a meta without terrains and the right team support. Regarding Slaking, I don,t think he needs to change ability either, but I would change the way Truant Works: Instead of not letting move each 2 turns, I would make Truant prevent using offensive moves each 2 turns. This way Choice Band Slaking would still not demolish the meta, but LO + Slack Off + 3 Attacks or Bulk Up + Slack Off + 2 Attacks would be usable.

 

[Worldie]

Main problem aren,t even Fight Mons or Steel + Body Press Mons. Main problem are Tapu Fini and Tapu Koko, who don,t allow Regigigas to sleep with their terrains. Remove those 2 from the equation and with the right team Regigigas can shine.

Let's be honest that's still not the case.

There's no realistic scenario where Regigigas gets to live 5 turns without either getting horribly crippled, or giving 5 turns of free setup. The presence of the Tapus or terrain in general doesn't matter much (if anything, Tapu Fini and Bulu/Rillaboomer *help* him by making him immune to status and granting extra passive recovery)

The only thing Gigas obtained with finally learning Protect is... getting banned from ZU lol.

Regigigas was actually viable in gen 8 competitively, but it had nothing to do with receiving extra moves, it was actually just the fact that Weezing and Galar Weezing existed and made for a cheesy but effective strategy which could actually 4-0 certain compositions if unprepared.

 

[pika pal]

Slow Start is never going to work because Singles are too Switch-Heavy for Regigigas to ever make progress, while Doubles without Weezing Cheese are too aggressive to hit 5 turns even with defensive tools gained.

Honestly I'm not even sure I'd call Regigigas particularly good if you took away Slow Start entirely. With Return gone, his main STAB is the much weaker Body Slam, and while his Bulk is good, his speed's just okay for trying to sweep with. Rest is his only solution to status, and he has to rely on his Coverage for Normal Resists. It's not really anything I feel OU isn't already dealing with if he gets that high up (I see him being like A- for something like SwSh if assigning a rank) after this hypothetical change, compared to Slaking who has some mixed potential, much higher Physical bulk, and things like Reliable Recovery or Encore for set-up exploitation if it lost Truant.

I just don't get why they felt the need to kneecap Regigigas so hard. Slaking it has a flavor/depiction for its theme, but aside from being woken up from a Statue like all the Golems (if not several Legendaries in general), nothing about Regigigas really suggests it being a slow starter. Manga and Anime depictions it at most takes a blow or two coming out, and then turns into a beatdown machine before the fight is under way much. At this point I'd want something like Intimidate or Stamina that better depicts its massive power or size imposing on the enemy. Why is it okay for every other Trio master to be designed to be potential Uber level, but Regigigas has to be weakened for a concept that literally never gets referenced for it outside said ability existing?

 

[Bakugames]

An ever simpler fix that would help imo: why not make slow start affect speed only? 100 speed isn't amazing, and I hardly believe anyone is investing in a speedy regigigas Plus, it fits a bit more with the theme: it's a giant being that takes a while to build up speed and react to a battle, even if its attacks are powerful, but once it does, its devastating.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

Honestly, I like Slow Start, because I find the juxtaposition of "12-foot alien robot colossus thing" and "makes sculptures seemingly just for fun and has a hard time getting up in the morning" to be one of the funniest things Pokemon has ever done.