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Unpopular opinions
- Thread starter antemortem
- Start date
Yep. Just like I said. Broaden your horizons young fella. Maybe one day you'll get it.
The difficulty of reaching the point of being good is factored into how good a Pokemon is in-game, even on the in-game tier lists, right? It's why theoretically really strong stuff like pseudo-legendaries are often ranked low, it's just too much of a hassle to get them to the point where they can start kicking ass. Besides being less extreme, I don't see how this Abra business is fundamentally different.
It's not hard at all. Get 200 Coins (100 Coins in Crystal but it's level 5) to buy an abra in the game corner, teach it the very much immediately affordable Ice Punch TM available right across the street, and then go to town against the large variety of Flying and Grass types that appear in the areas near Goldenrod until you evolve into Kadabra a little bit later(might have to switch a bit in Crystal like you do with Magikarp in Gen I). Alakazam isn't even needed, Kadabra alone can carry its weight for most of the game.
LoneyGaruga was referring to Abra across all games, not just GS.
You can still get an Lv. 10 Abra in the wild on Route 34 in Crystal.
No, the topic was explicitly about GSC Abra.
That's exactly what sets GSC Abra apart from the other 4 straight gens of it being S-Tier despite the Abra phase. It can immediately contribute.
Look at some of the trainers in and around Goldenrod City.
A mon with base 105 SpA firing off 75BP SE attacks at complete mooks like these just can't be struggling. GSC Abra has no deadweight phase and it's well-known it is the best Psychic mon by a landslide in a region that gets folded by Psychics.
That's quite the hypocritical take given you've provided minimal arguments beyond deflection and mockery.
I was in fact talking about Abra as a whole, GSC gets special mention for being the highest point in the series for it, and thus would be the most contentious. I have no issue agreeing GSC Abra is probably top 5 for GSC, but the best Pokémon in any in-game run? Not even the best Pokémon in GSC. When people exaggerate its performance and say things like Whitney is its sole bad matchup, yeah, it's safe to say that it's overrated. It's good, but not that good, no.
I've provided more than enough arguments. I claimed GSC Abra to be the best in-game mon from an IGTL perspective, you disagreed on a speedrun perspective and we've been on this nonsensical discussion ever since.
This argument should've ended about 20 posts ago when it was obvious that we aren't using the same parameters. Yet, despite knowing that, you'd rather insist on it.
I understand that you don't agree with IGTLs as a concept. That is perfectly fair, but that's also a whole other discussion that doesn't even involve Abra tbh.
You said it's the most broken in-game Pokemon ever and that it didn't need much if any training, then backtracked and said yeah it does actually need training, then backtracked further and said that no, Totodile is stronger, and spent the rest of your posts calling LG a fool.I've provided more than enough arguments. I claimed GSC Abra to be the best in-game mon from an IGTL perspective, you disagreed on a speedrun perspective and we've been on this nonsensical discussion ever since.
That is barely even a single argument.
There was zero backtracking. Let me try to make myself even clearer. Important points will be bolded.
All I want for christmas is a WTF button.
Bro, GSC Abra is literally the most busted in-game mon EVER.
It being slightly underleveled is irrelevant when it's immediately throwing punches like prime Mike Tyson off 105 SpA with breakneck speed compared to everything at that point in the game. Johto's level curve means it's not severely underleveled either and there are plenty of trainers for it to catch up.
Did you know Psychic runs through Johto and Kanto like a hot knife through butter?
That was a straight up crazy take.
After that, LG posted calcs involving an Lv. 10 Abra. I clarified that obviously taking on a tough boss 8 levels below is just stupid. I did not backtrack since, as you can see, that was addressed in my first post.
Then as the argument went on, LG made it clear that they were thinking on a Speedrun perspective. For obvious reasons, especially in the OI subforum, when we think in-game, we don't think about speedruns, we think about IGTL.
On speedruns, Toto is stronger, but again, I wasn't talking about those.
Like I said, no backtracking.
I don't know what criteria the IGTLs use to determine who the best is, but if the criteria doesn't boil down to "the Pokemon that's easiest to unga your way through the game with is the best" then the whole project and discussion surrounding it sounds like a largely worthless endeavor. If Abra takes more effort to use than Totodile, which from what I can gather is one of the most bunga starters in the series, then it's not the best, simple as that.
I don't know much about GS or who's actually stronger, but LG is providing actual justifications for their arguments. You're just saying "well that's not what I was talking about" and leaving it at that. It's not very convincing.
I don't know much about GS or who's actually stronger, but LG is providing actual justifications for their arguments. You're just saying "well that's not what I was talking about" and leaving it at that. It's not very convincing.
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Because there can't be a conclusion when there is no standard in an evaluation. It's like if we were playing chess but I'm using monopoly pieces and you're using checkers pieces. It doesn't make a lick of sense.
Then stay in your lane instead of making things even messier for no reason.
I've seen more coherent discussions today looking for SV leaks in goddamn 4chan. That's beyond absurd.
Don't bother replying, matter of fact, go binge-watch One Piece from the beginning.
Don't know what exactly is going on here, but this in-fighting is great entertainment!
Uh, as for unpopular opinions, Hydro Pump and Fire Blast are bad moves, particularly if they are used as a Pokemon's main STAB. Due to their accuracy, they actually aren't much stronger than their weaker counterparts on average (Fire Blast has 93.5 BP on average, while Hydro pump has 88 BP on average) and their lower PP makes them worse in longer matches and in-game runs since they can't be spammed as frequently, further compounded by their lower accuracy forcing you to use the move more if they miss.
Similarly, I don't like other powerful moves with drawbacks like Flare Blitz, Close Combat,, etc. Flare Blitz's recoil is really annoying to deal with, espcially when compounded by additional chip damage like Sand, Rocky Helmet, Stealth Rock, etc. Close Combat is a bit better, but the lowered defenses can be really annoying when used by a faster Pokemon since it makes it less capable of taking neutral hits and puts it in KO ranges easier. Flare Blitz's recoil and Close Combat's low PP also makes them annoying to use in in-game since it will force you to use additional resources. Overall, I suppose these moves are more balanced by having drawbacks to make up for their higher power, but I usually opt for weaker choices in in-game runs since they don't require me to jump through additional hoops like using more Full Restores and what-not.
Uh, as for unpopular opinions, Hydro Pump and Fire Blast are bad moves, particularly if they are used as a Pokemon's main STAB. Due to their accuracy, they actually aren't much stronger than their weaker counterparts on average (Fire Blast has 93.5 BP on average, while Hydro pump has 88 BP on average) and their lower PP makes them worse in longer matches and in-game runs since they can't be spammed as frequently, further compounded by their lower accuracy forcing you to use the move more if they miss.
Similarly, I don't like other powerful moves with drawbacks like Flare Blitz, Close Combat,, etc. Flare Blitz's recoil is really annoying to deal with, espcially when compounded by additional chip damage like Sand, Rocky Helmet, Stealth Rock, etc. Close Combat is a bit better, but the lowered defenses can be really annoying when used by a faster Pokemon since it makes it less capable of taking neutral hits and puts it in KO ranges easier. Flare Blitz's recoil and Close Combat's low PP also makes them annoying to use in in-game since it will force you to use additional resources. Overall, I suppose these moves are more balanced by having drawbacks to make up for their higher power, but I usually opt for weaker choices in in-game runs since they don't require me to jump through additional hoops like using more Full Restores and what-not.
*desperately racking my brain for a fresh Unpopular Opinion to rescue this thread*
I actually like it when my favourite Pokemon are kinda weak and shafted by the devs in new gens. there's something much more satisfying to me about making a mon work with limited options rather than having it get access to a new gimmick or the latest generically powerful move/ability/etc
I actually like it when my favourite Pokemon are kinda weak and shafted by the devs in new gens. there's something much more satisfying to me about making a mon work with limited options rather than having it get access to a new gimmick or the latest generically powerful move/ability/etc
If the standard by which something is evaluated is bad, then those evaluations will also be bad. Garbage in, garbage out. LG provided some reasons for why the IGTL's evaluation method is garbage that I found convincing. Either give an convincing rebuttal beyond "it's different and everyone assumed you were talking about IGTL (I didn't assume that)", or at the very least stop being a dismissive jerk.Because there can't be a conclusion when there is no standard in an evaluation. It's like if we were playing chess but I'm using monopoly pieces and you're using checkers pieces. It doesn't make a lick of sense.
Then stay in your lane instead of making things even messier for no reason.
I've seen more coherent discussions today looking for SV leaks in goddamn 4chan. That's beyond absurd.
Don't bother replying, matter of fact, go binge-watch One Piece from the beginning.
I've provided more than enough arguments. I claimed GSC Abra to be the best in-game mon from an IGTL perspective, you disagreed on a speedrun perspective and we've been on this nonsensical discussion ever since.
You made a claim and provided very literally zero backing for it. Psychic isn't even the dominant type in the IGTL despite your claim that Psychic is the one that cuts through GSC, Normal and Water track better.
You put out trash trainers on route 34 as proof that Abra can "immediately contribute". Contributing to an efficient run is not wasting time on optional fodder that barely provide any EXP. An immediate contribution to efficiency is taking out that required trainer to reach Whitney, something Abra has a 0% chance of pulling off, and Croconaw can do effortlessly with no additional grinding involved.
Also uh, Diglett outspeeds Abra at an equal level unless Abra has an above average Speed IV, and the level 14 one has a range to 2HKO Abra with Scratch (guaranteed if the first one outpaces Abra) while being a range for Ice Punch to KO. That fodder with the two Digletts isn't even a reliable matchup for Abra.
I also posted calcs of a level 21 Kadabra and Alakazam that showed an inconsistent ability to 1v1 Miltank (Kadabra straight up can't do it at all unless Miltank uses Rollout). You ignored those in favor of mocking me for the level 10 calc that demonstrates Abra has no immediate capacity to contribute to efficiency. Pretty much equivalent to if I highlighted Abra's gen VII performance instead of GSC, it really doesn't look good for your "argument" if you continually ignore the actually meaningful calcs in favor of mocking the obviously unfavorable one. Exclusively picking on the weakest link of an argument without addressing any of the more relevant points just makes it look like you either don't have an actual counterargument to those points or are more interested in trying to mock the person you're replying to than having an actual argument. The latter is my pick, personally, and frankly that's a trend I've picked up on when criticizing the IGTL's methodology. People defending it tend to be more interested in being smug jerks than having meaningful discourse.
As for speedrunning perspective, I've repeatedly clarified that it's a lot more nuanced than that despite your insistence otherwise. I'm routing out RNG as best I can and restricting items so no X boosters or healing nonsense, none of that is conducive to speedrunning the game. I'll reiterate, for Blue I ran a team of Squirtle/Spearow/Dugtrio/Zapdos (run's uploaded if you want to check it, made a topic for it but no one replied). That far more closely resembles a high tier IGTL team than a speedrun team. While routing the other starters for GSC, Geodude was far and away more efficient than grinding Chikorita or Cyndaquil to beat Falkner. I think most people contributing to the IGTL would agree with that sentiment too, regardless of opinions on Geodude's performance afterwards, and also that Geodude has zero business being used for a speedrun. I don't know what kind of partners I'll end up with for Totodile on the GSC run, but Abra is not an efficient pick, and I very much doubt that the final result will resemble a speedrun more than a fairly optimized challenge run. You can keep mitigating criticism of Abra by insisting I'm pulling a speedrun route where Totodile solo is the only viable strategy, but I am very obviously not, and it goes closer to a modified IGTL ruleset. Seeking efficiency as defined as a combination of speed, consistency, and self-sufficiency. Everything about that can be defined in concrete terms, unlike whatever the mess the IGTL topics has going on.
Yeah this checks out
I'm really looking forward to Terastalisation. I think it'll make the metagame much more diverse and give life to Pokemon that historically always struggled with lousy typing. I predict that at first people will spam same type terastal for the power, people will bitch about it being broken, then people will find ways to counter it and use it defensively too. Wolfe Glick did a great video about how it will help Ice types.
I also think it will be much less broken in game than Megas and Z moves. Although let's be honest, the Pokemon series have never been difficult games. Mainly because they're intended for children under 10.
I also think it will be much less broken in game than Megas and Z moves. Although let's be honest, the Pokemon series have never been difficult games. Mainly because they're intended for children under 10.
I'm not sure we can talk about anything SV-related outside of the SV threads.
As for an Unpopular Opinion to wash away the stupidity from the last 2 pages (including mine, of course...)
I don't think Normal was a bad type before Gen 8. They usually have plenty of coverage to deal with Steel-types, I'd argue that Gen 5 introducing a ton of good Fighting-types is what made them tough to use.
After Gen 8 removed Return, made Close Combat a TR, and the ever increasing power creep rendered a lot of formerly good Normal mons useless, then I'd have to argue that it's pretty unviable.
Hell, people are seriously considering the possibility of Ursaluna being an actual OU-tier threat if it's available outside of PLA.
Speaking of which...
Wow GF, really? No update for PLA transfers to BDSP?
Plz still no Gen 9 spoilers!!
My unpopular opinion is that the Distortion World was a neat spectacle in itself but took away from Giratina's overall lore. The original idea of Giratina as lord of a cave where the life and afterlife blended really gave the whole area a "you're not supposed to be here" vibe. The Distortion World itself has that vibe, but it also takes a lot away from the area around it; it makes Turnback Cave feel just sort of weird, rather than like you're trespassing on ground mortals shouldn't step on.
What I'm trying to say is I enjoy the idea of Giratina as a cross of Lucifer and Hades a lot more than it being the god of antimatter, and I liked its characterisation in PLA for similar reasons: it made Giratina feel scary for reasons other than it being powerful and unfamiliar.
What I'm trying to say is I enjoy the idea of Giratina as a cross of Lucifer and Hades a lot more than it being the god of antimatter, and I liked its characterisation in PLA for similar reasons: it made Giratina feel scary for reasons other than it being powerful and unfamiliar.
In my opinion, BDSP would have benefited greatly from the PLA Pokémon, especially if you can catch them in-game. Even as a post-game thing, it would be neat to see, I mean it's not like BDSP is a 101% copy of DP anyway (E.g., the Underground).Wow GF, really? No update for PLA transfers to BDSP?
dynamax is fucking awesome, fuck everyone who hates it
Generation 9's designs are the bottom of the barrel.
We might have a winner!
Anyway,
The Treecko like is my least favorite Grass starter, and yes, I played Explorers of Sky.
Sorry.