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Pokemon Scarlet & Violet - 18th Nov 2022! **OFFICIAL INFO ONLY**
- Thread starter DHR-107
- Start date
My guess at the Move Reminder is the Pokemon can learn moves that were part of its native Gen 8-9 moveset. So stuff like Bisharp's Knock Off is off-limits since that was from a "Pre-Home" game.
We're not likely getting massive Toxic distribution back, but Scald might be returning since it's a TR in SwSh, and honestly I might hate the latter more.
We're not likely getting massive Toxic distribution back, but Scald might be returning since it's a TR in SwSh, and honestly I might hate the latter more.
I think it is a given that the DLC will bring some sort of tutor back.
The biggest pointer are moves like Grassy Glide that are in the game and usable, but have 0 learners (as well as several previous swsh tutors that have 2 or less learners).
Which... heh, good question. I can actually see Scald returning since they kept it in game despite only Volcanion learning it (who has the superior Steam Eruption), though it still is somewhat redundant with Chilling Water
The way I interpreted it, the move relearner thing is just to make it so you can pick a moveset for the mon before sending it to a game (instead of it defaultimg to level up movepool every time)
So like you can make Rillaboom learn Grassy Glide in HOME and send it to SwSh but it'd lose the move if sent to SV or something like that
So like you can make Rillaboom learn Grassy Glide in HOME and send it to SwSh but it'd lose the move if sent to SV or something like that
I honestly hope this isn’t the case. Scald should at least only be on Volcanion. I also kind of like movesets reseting each Gen. It provides ways to rebalance Pokemon without going overboard.
I guess I should say this: I TOLD YOU SO
I said that allowing S/V Pokemon to be sent back to older titles would take very little effort to do seeing as there are more coding similarities between S/V and Sword/Shield than there are BDSP and Sword/Shield due to BDSP being coded in Unity
I said that allowing S/V Pokemon to be sent back to older titles would take very little effort to do seeing as there are more coding similarities between S/V and Sword/Shield than there are BDSP and Sword/Shield due to BDSP being coded in Unity
I feel about the same way based on how the Japanese site words the feature with the implication that you get your movepool from the game you're entering into.
https://www.pokemon.co.jp/ex/pokemonhome/ja/features/03/
There is some debate on if it means the previous or destination game, but google translate and deepL side towards the latter interpretation.
This kind of conflicts with the equivalent English notice which names all games in the same context and puts "some moves excluded" after BDSP, but this is what I see more likely to happen just because it seems more straightforward and also I don't really have that much faith in gamefreak.
Also pokemon twitter, 3.0.0 is the new HOME version and not SV 3.0.0 which we may never actually see.
The Japanese example screenshots show a Brilliant Diamond game and its Pikachu with Tail Whip, Growl, Quick Attack, and Thunder Wave as the latest moves a Pikachu would be generated with in both SWSH and BDSP since they use the same learnset. The equivalent English screenshots show a Pikachu in Violet with Nasty Plot, Play Nice, Nuzzle, and Thunder Wave, which is made out of moves it could have relearned. Notably both have the Galar origin mark and originate from SWSH. As we'll see later this is a reference to the Level 5 Pikachu you get from starting up HOME, though neither have preserved its original moveset.
There is also a Lv. 25 Pikachu shown in Mobile HOME with the Alolan origin mark and Thunder Wave/Spark/Electro Ball/Feint. Notably the game-specific details feature includes the Bank profile, which is a new feature for the mobile version so you might be able to look at your legacy moves in some form. What's kind of odd here is that the Bank icon seems to be showing that it's being viewed under its Bank stats, but Pikachu only learned Spark at level 26 in Gen 7. There are also options for SV and SWSH views and no height/weight stats listed.
On the Japanese side, this Pikachu is probably the same one used in the BDSP example with the same moves and BDSP and SWSH POVs available, and SV and PLA greyed out unlike the English version. Based on the OT and TID being HOME and 200212, this is actually supposed to be the HOME gift Pikachu you get from starting up HOME, which would normally have Thunder Shock, Tail Whip, Growl, and Quick Attack. It even has the same stats with all 20 IVs!
There are equivalent screenshots for the Level 5 Pikachu in Switch HOME as well, though with no Bank option here. The Pikachu have access to SWSH and their respective example games shown.
EDIT: I almost forgot to check the Chinese and Korean sites, though the Korean site hasn't updated yet.
The Chinese versions show a SWSH native Pikachu with only SWSH options, but also showing the other Gen 8 games greyed out. They have the HOME OT but the wrong ID number and it doesn't even have all 20 IVs like the real HOME gift Pikachu so this is just a shoddy reproduction.
Their HOME Move example still shows a BDSP perspective though like the Japanese versions. However, the Japanese and English HOME move Pikachu shared the same stats while this Pikachu actually matches the Chinese phone example's stats and has no blue markings unlike the other languages.
tl;dr: There are multiple different Pikachu shown in the examples across languages.
The Japanese HOME side consistently uses a Level 5 Pikachu with a SWSH origin that has been transferred to Brilliant Diamond and is implied to be the HOME gift.
The English/other western language HOME sides mainly show a Level 5 Pikachu with a SWSH origin transferred to Violet, and is also implied to be the HOME gift.
The English mobile HOME example shows a completely different Level 25 Pikachu from Alola.
The Chinese side also shows a Level 5 Pikachu with a SWSH origin into BD like the Japanese side, but theirs has different stats and no markings. It has the HOME OT but no other signs of it being the real HOME gift.
Speaking of the Chinese side, this is another source that supports the "moves it learns in the game you're entering" interpretation since it uses the term 送去 which means "sent to" compared to the Japanese woridng used which could apparently mean both before or ahead.
https://www.pokemon.co.jp/ex/pokemonhome/sc/features/03/
Overall I think the English side's wording is pretty unclear especially with how they specify (some moves excluded) only on BDSP, and it's hard to say what will actually happen in practice, but I would rather keep my expectations low and be surprised if it does actually happen that you can mix and match your movesets across games.
Also this tera type thing could be nice to get something like a Water tera Sap Sipper Marill more easily, because as of now you either have to change tera types from a raid or bred Azurill because Azurill can't spawn with Water tera from breeding, or Ability Patch a wild Marill with water tera, or find a natural water type Marill raid with HA. Another example is Ghost tera Decidueye or really anything that gets a new type on evolution that you wouldn't be able to tera spawn naturally.
There is also a Lv. 25 Pikachu shown in Mobile HOME with the Alolan origin mark and Thunder Wave/Spark/Electro Ball/Feint. Notably the game-specific details feature includes the Bank profile, which is a new feature for the mobile version so you might be able to look at your legacy moves in some form. What's kind of odd here is that the Bank icon seems to be showing that it's being viewed under its Bank stats, but Pikachu only learned Spark at level 26 in Gen 7. There are also options for SV and SWSH views and no height/weight stats listed.
On the Japanese side, this Pikachu is probably the same one used in the BDSP example with the same moves and BDSP and SWSH POVs available, and SV and PLA greyed out unlike the English version. Based on the OT and TID being HOME and 200212, this is actually supposed to be the HOME gift Pikachu you get from starting up HOME, which would normally have Thunder Shock, Tail Whip, Growl, and Quick Attack. It even has the same stats with all 20 IVs!
There are equivalent screenshots for the Level 5 Pikachu in Switch HOME as well, though with no Bank option here. The Pikachu have access to SWSH and their respective example games shown.
EDIT: I almost forgot to check the Chinese and Korean sites, though the Korean site hasn't updated yet.
The Chinese versions show a SWSH native Pikachu with only SWSH options, but also showing the other Gen 8 games greyed out. They have the HOME OT but the wrong ID number and it doesn't even have all 20 IVs like the real HOME gift Pikachu so this is just a shoddy reproduction.
Their HOME Move example still shows a BDSP perspective though like the Japanese versions. However, the Japanese and English HOME move Pikachu shared the same stats while this Pikachu actually matches the Chinese phone example's stats and has no blue markings unlike the other languages.
tl;dr: There are multiple different Pikachu shown in the examples across languages.
The Japanese HOME side consistently uses a Level 5 Pikachu with a SWSH origin that has been transferred to Brilliant Diamond and is implied to be the HOME gift.
The English/other western language HOME sides mainly show a Level 5 Pikachu with a SWSH origin transferred to Violet, and is also implied to be the HOME gift.
The English mobile HOME example shows a completely different Level 25 Pikachu from Alola.
The Chinese side also shows a Level 5 Pikachu with a SWSH origin into BD like the Japanese side, but theirs has different stats and no markings. It has the HOME OT but no other signs of it being the real HOME gift.
Speaking of the Chinese side, this is another source that supports the "moves it learns in the game you're entering" interpretation since it uses the term 送去 which means "sent to" compared to the Japanese woridng used which could apparently mean both before or ahead.
https://www.pokemon.co.jp/ex/pokemonhome/sc/features/03/
Overall I think the English side's wording is pretty unclear especially with how they specify (some moves excluded) only on BDSP, and it's hard to say what will actually happen in practice, but I would rather keep my expectations low and be surprised if it does actually happen that you can mix and match your movesets across games.
Also this tera type thing could be nice to get something like a Water tera Sap Sipper Marill more easily, because as of now you either have to change tera types from a raid or bred Azurill because Azurill can't spawn with Water tera from breeding, or Ability Patch a wild Marill with water tera, or find a natural water type Marill raid with HA. Another example is Ghost tera Decidueye or really anything that gets a new type on evolution that you wouldn't be able to tera spawn naturally.
The patch for SV next week is focused on just fixing a bug related to competitions I wonder if they might do some minor background clean up for the lead up to Home
Namely: Several Pokemon do not have a proper Egg Move list and it's yet to be addressed at all to this point, so its like. If there's any time to fix that it'd be now, when they've clearly been tinkering with moves for at least Home, otherwise I guess it just won't ever be fixed (RIP random assortment of egg moves).
Off the top of my head its Cacnea, Luvdisc, Zangoose (instead its egg moves were placed in the Reminder move list; so still accessible, but an oops), Alolan Grimer....I think there might be one or two more. Grimer-A is probably the one that would ideally get them to go "wait....oops" since it's going to be available soon.
Namely: Several Pokemon do not have a proper Egg Move list and it's yet to be addressed at all to this point, so its like. If there's any time to fix that it'd be now, when they've clearly been tinkering with moves for at least Home, otherwise I guess it just won't ever be fixed (RIP random assortment of egg moves).
Off the top of my head its Cacnea, Luvdisc, Zangoose (instead its egg moves were placed in the Reminder move list; so still accessible, but an oops), Alolan Grimer....I think there might be one or two more. Grimer-A is probably the one that would ideally get them to go "wait....oops" since it's going to be available soon.
You've been able to capture Gimmighouls in Go since the February update
Link the games, send a postcard. Then you get a Coin Bag that spawns Roaming Gimmighoul to catch, lik how the box worked with Meltan.
They mention on the Japanese site that you can do this starting with the update.
Which follows with them mentioning it back in February as well, iirc. It was only waiting on Home to be compatible
With all the vagueness of HOME and the move transfers, I choose to be pessimistic and interpret it as there not being any mixing of transfer moves between the Switch games. However this still leads to some different ways gamefreak can handle this depending on the interpretation of what learning a move entails, and if you can learn a move across games that you technically wouldn't have access to in one game alone. Here are some mysterious scenarios I propose. What answers do you think would happen?
1: Does Breloom learn Spore?
The most infamous example of an evolution losing access to a move from its prevolution is the fact that Breloom does not have Spore in its SV learnset. Technically it can store it in its relearn moves if you breed 2 Spore parents together, but people don't really talk about this feature much.
If a Breloom with Spore were to go from Bank to HOME to SV, would it be allowed to retain Spore or have to invent a new moveset entering SV? The answer depends on if Breloom learns Spore. Game Freak recognizes that Breloom can have Spore and has given it to the static Tera Rock Breloom and is legal online, but on the other hand a Breloom can't "learn" Spore if you take it literally. I feel like most people would expect to be allowed to retain Spore in this case, but I also feel like gamefreak would be the type to get rid of all Spores on transfer Breloom. If not though, that leads to another question.
The second question I ask is if a Breloom without Spore goes from Bank to HOME to SV. Should Breloom be allowed to put Spore in its learnset now? For this I feel like it's reasonable to say no. Even if Breloom originally had Spore and forgot it, HOME has no way to know at that point.
With Gen 8 interconnectivity though, this leads to the question of if you send a Breloom from SV to BDSP. Since Breloom has natural access to Spore in BDSP, you would think that Breloom would be allowed to add Spore to its BDSP moveset, and even if not you could just go into BDSP and relearn it yourself. So now your Breloom has learned Spore in BDSP. What happens if you send it back to SV now and HOME sees that it has learned Spore? Does this allow for any Breloom to gain Spore in its moveset as long as you have access to BDSP, or is Breloom's original SV moveset already set in stone in HOME due to originating from SV, and are these HOME moveset adjustments only applicable when entering a game for the first time? Is a BDSP-native Breloom treated differently from a Breloom who has gone through Home and back to learn Spore? The answers to all these questions will decide if the future of Spore Breloom will allow all Breloom to learn Spore or completely block all past Breloom from bringing Spore in.
2: Can Hisuian Decidueye learn Astonish?
In SV, Astonish is not part of Hisuian Decidueye's learnset, and the same goes for Soak on Samurott. However, Astonish is part of Rowlet and Dartrix's learnset. This raises the question of if Hisuian Decidueye actually learns Astonish in SV if its prevolutions do, but those prevolutions can't actually evolve into Hisuian Decidueye in SV. Is the intent to remove Astonish from Hisuian Decidueye's learnset by intentionally forcing you to move into a different game where Rowlet does not learn Astonish? Of course, assuming relearn moves persist, then you could breed an Astonish Rowlet and evolve it in PLA and relearn Astonish in SV to get your own Astonish Hisuian Decidueye. Technically part of this question can also apply to egg moves, but those can probably be Mirror Herbed so I guess that does imply that prevolution learnsets are still canon to evolutions that you can't evolve into.
3: Can a non-hatched SV Pikachu learn Volt Tackle?
The only way for Pikachu to have Volt Tackle in Gen 8/9 is to breed Pichu while holding a Light Ball. This isn't a regular egg move so you can't even Mirror Herb or egg move transfer it in Gen 8/9. This means that events like Flying Pikachu and Unrivaled Pikachu cannot have Volt Tackle, until now. Back in Gen 7 Volt Tackle became a move tutor move, and in PLA Volt Tackle is similarly available from the move tutor shop, so theoretically you could bring the Flying Pikachu to PLA and teach it Volt Tackle. If you brought it back, would SV accept it as having learned Volt Tackle even without being hatched as a Pichu or having it from the event distribution? Would PLA-native Pikachu be allowed to have Volt Tackle? The answer depends on if Volt Tackle is treated as a move that Pikachu can "learn" or had to be born with, like Spore on Breloom but with more limitations.
Another minor question I have that doesn't really have to do with this: Can Ash-Greninja have Froakie's egg moves transferred to it? This is probably testable but I'll leave it here because it's another mystery. On one hand it is basically a separate mon that can't be bred, but on the other hand it is still a form of Greninja so I think it would be able to.
Overall I think it would make sense for the answers to these questions to be yes, but I feel like gamefreak would find some way to make the answer no because they have something against Spore Breloom.
EDIT: Speaking of Flying Pikachu, this also raises the question if Pikachu can learn Fly with the precedence of that event existing, or if other event mons can learn Celebrate for the purposes of older events being transferred into SV with those moves, though I don't expect these to be retained.
EDIT 2: Also, does Smeargle learn moves other than Sketch or does Sketch count as learning a move? Will a Smeargle from Bank transferred into BDSP be allowed to retain the moves it had that existed in BDSP?
1: Does Breloom learn Spore?
The most infamous example of an evolution losing access to a move from its prevolution is the fact that Breloom does not have Spore in its SV learnset. Technically it can store it in its relearn moves if you breed 2 Spore parents together, but people don't really talk about this feature much.
If a Breloom with Spore were to go from Bank to HOME to SV, would it be allowed to retain Spore or have to invent a new moveset entering SV? The answer depends on if Breloom learns Spore. Game Freak recognizes that Breloom can have Spore and has given it to the static Tera Rock Breloom and is legal online, but on the other hand a Breloom can't "learn" Spore if you take it literally. I feel like most people would expect to be allowed to retain Spore in this case, but I also feel like gamefreak would be the type to get rid of all Spores on transfer Breloom. If not though, that leads to another question.
The second question I ask is if a Breloom without Spore goes from Bank to HOME to SV. Should Breloom be allowed to put Spore in its learnset now? For this I feel like it's reasonable to say no. Even if Breloom originally had Spore and forgot it, HOME has no way to know at that point.
With Gen 8 interconnectivity though, this leads to the question of if you send a Breloom from SV to BDSP. Since Breloom has natural access to Spore in BDSP, you would think that Breloom would be allowed to add Spore to its BDSP moveset, and even if not you could just go into BDSP and relearn it yourself. So now your Breloom has learned Spore in BDSP. What happens if you send it back to SV now and HOME sees that it has learned Spore? Does this allow for any Breloom to gain Spore in its moveset as long as you have access to BDSP, or is Breloom's original SV moveset already set in stone in HOME due to originating from SV, and are these HOME moveset adjustments only applicable when entering a game for the first time? Is a BDSP-native Breloom treated differently from a Breloom who has gone through Home and back to learn Spore? The answers to all these questions will decide if the future of Spore Breloom will allow all Breloom to learn Spore or completely block all past Breloom from bringing Spore in.
2: Can Hisuian Decidueye learn Astonish?
In SV, Astonish is not part of Hisuian Decidueye's learnset, and the same goes for Soak on Samurott. However, Astonish is part of Rowlet and Dartrix's learnset. This raises the question of if Hisuian Decidueye actually learns Astonish in SV if its prevolutions do, but those prevolutions can't actually evolve into Hisuian Decidueye in SV. Is the intent to remove Astonish from Hisuian Decidueye's learnset by intentionally forcing you to move into a different game where Rowlet does not learn Astonish? Of course, assuming relearn moves persist, then you could breed an Astonish Rowlet and evolve it in PLA and relearn Astonish in SV to get your own Astonish Hisuian Decidueye. Technically part of this question can also apply to egg moves, but those can probably be Mirror Herbed so I guess that does imply that prevolution learnsets are still canon to evolutions that you can't evolve into.
3: Can a non-hatched SV Pikachu learn Volt Tackle?
The only way for Pikachu to have Volt Tackle in Gen 8/9 is to breed Pichu while holding a Light Ball. This isn't a regular egg move so you can't even Mirror Herb or egg move transfer it in Gen 8/9. This means that events like Flying Pikachu and Unrivaled Pikachu cannot have Volt Tackle, until now. Back in Gen 7 Volt Tackle became a move tutor move, and in PLA Volt Tackle is similarly available from the move tutor shop, so theoretically you could bring the Flying Pikachu to PLA and teach it Volt Tackle. If you brought it back, would SV accept it as having learned Volt Tackle even without being hatched as a Pichu or having it from the event distribution? Would PLA-native Pikachu be allowed to have Volt Tackle? The answer depends on if Volt Tackle is treated as a move that Pikachu can "learn" or had to be born with, like Spore on Breloom but with more limitations.
Another minor question I have that doesn't really have to do with this: Can Ash-Greninja have Froakie's egg moves transferred to it? This is probably testable but I'll leave it here because it's another mystery. On one hand it is basically a separate mon that can't be bred, but on the other hand it is still a form of Greninja so I think it would be able to.
Overall I think it would make sense for the answers to these questions to be yes, but I feel like gamefreak would find some way to make the answer no because they have something against Spore Breloom.
EDIT: Speaking of Flying Pikachu, this also raises the question if Pikachu can learn Fly with the precedence of that event existing, or if other event mons can learn Celebrate for the purposes of older events being transferred into SV with those moves, though I don't expect these to be retained.
EDIT 2: Also, does Smeargle learn moves other than Sketch or does Sketch count as learning a move? Will a Smeargle from Bank transferred into BDSP be allowed to retain the moves it had that existed in BDSP?
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So, there might be a way to answer this for you in a roundabout way without assistance from hackers: The nearest testable neighbor to this would be the Cap Pikachu. It's still a Pikachu. And since the caps are all in SWSH we can use the Nursery Method!
Which took an annoying amount of time since I had to breed a PIkachu which meant breeding a Pichu then evolving it but thankfully soothe bell + some candy got it evolved. And then remember that move deleter services were at the Pokemon Center. And also unlike the Mirror Herb method it is not instant (found that one the hard way and 1000 pokedollars later...) and according to Serebii or Bulbapedia requires "a short bit of time". ANYWAY, a lot of biking later the answer...was....yes! I was able to pass Charge from the bred Pikachu to my Cap Pikachu.
Following from that, Battle Bond Greninja should be able to do the same
Thanks, that makes sense.
In the meantime I've gone too deep with these HOME marketing pictures. The korean site still hasn't updated and I know they usually have some high quality pictures but for now I've basically gone through all the other pages.
https://www.pokemon.co.jp/ex/pokemonhome/ja/features/01/
https://www.pokemon.co.jp/ex/pokemonhome/tc/features/01/
On the Japanese version of this website, this example is of a Mimikyu. On the Chinese equivalent, this instead shows the HOME gift Pikachu. It turns out that this image is just a cropped version of the same Pikachu on that other page showing the new mobile UI.
https://www.pokemon.co.jp/ex/pokemonhome/assets/img/tc/features/01/img_SP_02.png
https://www.pokemon.co.jp/ex/pokemonhome/assets/img/tc/features/02/img_SP_01.png
What's even worse is that they have a perfectly good photo of the real HOME Pikachu here that was redeemed on March 21 2023 so they've had it at least and updated at some point from March to now. Also based on the times you can see that the SC version was taken a minute before the TC version but I don't want to get into comparing times right now.
There is also a list of the full box view on the Japanese page that seems the same as the Chinese versions so I don't think that was updated, but I noticed that they use a different Level 10 Pikachu and in the Chinese versions it even has a Japanese name still.
There is a howto page that shows a Switch home menu with Violet, and also a higher quality version of this same screenshot in the Japanese version.
https://www.pokemon.co.jp/ex/pokemonhome/ja/howto/
However, on the Chinese versions, you get this screenshot:
It's the Level 5 Pikachu gift from the other page. You can even tell it's the same one, because on that screenshot from before there's an R button to go to Stoutland on the right, and this screenshot shows a Stoutland to the right of it! Why not put this image on the page with the same Pikachu that you're actually showing? You can also spot some GO icons in the bottom right there of some pink and blue mons.
I looked around on the other pages and found out that they did update the Pokemon HOME points page to show the LP conversion rate is 10 LP for 1 Home point, so that's some new news for this post.
https://www.pokemon.co.jp/ex/pokemonhome/sc/features/15/
I also found it interesting that their Pokemon GO username is HOME20200212. I guess it was named after the release date of HOME but it feels a little late for that when GO support was added 9 months later.
https://www.pokemon.co.jp/ex/pokemonhome/ja/titles/pokemongo/
Where did you get the English screenshots from?
I got them from the press page.
https://press.pokemon.com/en/releases/NEW-UPDATE-TO-POKEMON-HOME-COMING-SOON
There's also the international press page for other languages though they don't have much differences.
https://pokemon.gamespress.com/
I'm still wondering how people were able to use Expanding Force Hatterene in VGC battles in SV (as well as Dual Wingbeat Dragonite and Burn Up Arcanine) without the game flagging it as illegal as they were hacked in moves - for me, that was the big indication that transfer moves were coming back but apparently not.
I imagine they'll all be tutor moves in the DLCs, but it's such a crazy oversight that GF missed making them technically legal now.
I imagine they'll all be tutor moves in the DLCs, but it's such a crazy oversight that GF missed making them technically legal now.
We don't actually know they aren't, just that they're adding a move relearner to Home.
Did Niantic have to cover for TPC this week or something? Borked raid battles and PR errors are something I expect from Pokemon GO, not the brand as a whole.