Try adamant ting lu. Hits like a truck while still taking hits. Payback especially works well.i think one of the most underappreciated gags in all of pokemon is that the bulkiest thing we allow in the tier has one job and it's to die slowly
Try adamant ting lu. Hits like a truck while still taking hits. Payback especially works well.i think one of the most underappreciated gags in all of pokemon is that the bulkiest thing we allow in the tier has one job and it's to die slowly
Ignoring the usage argument, Toxic is a very reliable way to get rid of non-taunt Moon. The combination of Protect stalling + a Dark resist can be very efficient in removing Moon, usually resulting in it not being able to get more than 1 kill, which should be the goal.
Well, you see, sometimes you can click a singular Ice move and pray to god you kill it. Better hope all those phasing abilities weren't wasted on other set upsweepers!!!roaring moon, as a pokemon that breaks for itself, has perfect coverage, a billion attack & enough speed to outspeed everything relevant, good bulk, & easy-to-slot roundabouts to common answers, is emblematic of one of the most egregious issues with this generation.
u just acknowledged finchinator mentioning how moon is good at forcing progress, and i think it does it better than any other mon u can find on ho teams which is the only type of team moon is suitable. find another mon w booster energy atk, stab knock and taunt, none. it doesnt have to be 6-0ing teams to be broken. ur entitled to ur own opinion but just cos a mon cant 6-0 the enemy doesnt means its not broken harharTo add further into the discussion, I have a couple tour replays that demonstrate the difficulties Roaring Moon has with actually setting up. While scavenging through recent tournament replays, there’s been surprisingly few teams loading up with Roaring Moon, instead they opt Dragonite who imo is the best DD sweeper in the tier. Even when it does show up, it doesn’t make a notable impact, mostly winning games vs opponents whose teams are completely crippled beyond repair which says nothing about Roaring Moon’s alleged brokeness.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2115933352-sd15bu4lz486i6ry5axnmtytbea1bztpw
(Lando trades HP with Moon and U-Turns into Gambit to remove it)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9ou-764807?p2
(Chaitanya is perfectly suited to checking Roaring Moon with Wisp Cinder, Whirlwind Skarm, and Mola)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9ou-759306
(A seemingly free setup for Roaring Moon via Heatran is thwarted by the reveal of Will-O-Wisp)
To secret to dealing with Moon is good positioning. Even with Moon’s decent natural bulk, Moon is at risk of being burnt, para’d or put on a timer with Toxic. As shown in the first replay, what I said about Lando being able to U-Turn into a rkiller is valid, especially since Lando commonly pairs with Gambit/Raging Bolt. Even after taking chip, Lando is still able to Intimidate the Dragonite.
Like Finch said, Moon can force progress with Knock and raw attack power, with or without Dragon Dance, but it doesn’t have the potential to 6-0 well-built teams like Volc did with the correct Tera. Moon most of the time is running Tera Flying. While it can branch into other Teras (Ghost, Steel, Fairy), the reason you run Flying is to not lose to the bulky Ground types in the tier, especially Tusk who can potentially eat a +1 Acro.
+1 252 Atk Protosynthesis Roaring Moon Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 248 HP / 4 Def Great Tusk: 388-458 (89.6 - 105.7%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
(This is very much not an official TLDR of anything, but is possible)so anyways the tldr is roaring moon suspect not anytime soon, not confirmed either, just a BIG MAYBE, def ogerpon wellspring suspect coming 1st if anything, time to move on
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2115933352-sd15bu4lz486i6ry5axnmtytbea1bztpw
(Lando trades HP with Moon and U-Turns into Gambit to remove it)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9ou-764807?p2
(Chaitanya is perfectly suited to checking Roaring Moon with Wisp Cinder, Whirlwind Skarm, and Mola)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9ou-759306
(A seemingly free setup for Roaring Moon via Heatran is thwarted by the reveal of Will-O-Wisp)
nah, we just need to be patient. the meta is somewhat bearable right now because we're still fresh off the volc ban and new developments are happening for the first time in a while. give it time and the meta will settle into its usual intolerable state, at which point we'll choose the next thing to kick out. if we repeat this enough times we might actually get to a point where going on ladder doesn't cause physical painI will make a friendly announcement: I don't think that Wellspring should be suspect tested because the DNB squad is very large (It will be a waste of 2 weeks) [Just being honest but go for it]
Not sure why TPP didn't DD up and maybe Tera in Lando-T's face. That seems like a misplay to me. This was discussed in my previous comment. The math says you should DD in Lando-T's face.
hang on, didn't you rate it as "broken" on your graph?Roaring Moon is not broken, in my opinion.
i think we might all just be playing really fast and loose with the definition of "broken". it'd probably be a good idea at some point to have a discussion on whether or not "broken" means "banworthy", and whether it should mean "banworthy", so we're all on the same page here because i don't think anyone has a consistent definition of the term right now
I guess you missed the literal half dozen posts and disclaimers explaining this wasn’t an exercise to reflect tiering and didn’t hold weight in that context. Love when we push narratives and miss the actual content and arguments.hang on, didn't you rate it as "broken" on your graph?
It's so funny, Finch just wanted to see everybody's silly graphs instead people went on forever on a semantics discussion.hang on, didn't you rate it as "broken" on your graph?
i think we might all just be playing really fast and loose with the definition of "broken". it'd probably be a good idea at some point to have a discussion on whether or not "broken" means "banworthy", and whether it should mean "banworthy", so we're all on the same page here because i don't think anyone has a consistent definition of the term right now
It makes me feel so much better. Knowing that I don't have the run 3 mons just to check every variant makes team building much more fun in all honesty to build. Before when team building, the team would be able to counter one set, but then another would destroy it. This means it would take so much time to account for every tera type volcs has until you are destroyed by one you forgot about all of a sudden, like tera bug swarm.but finch where do the ou ranked mons fall in the drake kendrick beef i just know that drake is volcarona
i gave oras ou a try after some of u suggested it and it is hella fun!!
on the topic of sv, hows the lack of volc sitting with y'all?
i never said it held any weight, did i? i specifically said "whether or not you want roaring moon banned" in my post about it being broken. i wasn't conflating "broken" with "banworthy", i was just making the observation that the mon is, outside of the context of the meta, absolutely bonkers. that's why you put it in on the "broken" side of the graph, isn't it? not because of its place in this particular meta, but because the mon in a vacuum is textbook broken. obviously that doesn't matter to tiering at all because other things exist, but nowhere in this conversation did i insinuate that it mattered. maybe i didn't make that entirely clear and i apologize for the misunderstandingI guess you missed the literal half dozen posts and disclaimers explaining this wasn’t an exercise to reflect tiering and didn’t hold weight in that context. Love when we push narratives and miss the actual content and arguments.
Broken or uncompetitive or anything relevant in tiering context cannot be determined “outside of the context of the meta” because they’re all terms relative to any given tier. Things like BST or abilities are only good relative to their peers, same for overall viability and effectiveness.was just making the observation that the mon is, outside of the context of the meta, absolutely bonkers.
but doesn't that kinda just ultimately boil down to "if everything is broken, then nothing is"? i don't think that's an acceptable state of thingsBroken or uncompetitive or anything relevant in tiering context cannot be determined “outside of the context of the meta” because they’re all terms relative to any given tier. Things like BST or abilities are only good relative to their peers, same for overall viability and effectiveness.
No, that has nothing to do with what I said.but doesn't that kinda just ultimately boil down to "if everything is broken, then nothing is"? i don't think that's an acceptable state of things
but the reason box legendaries start out in ubers is because of their big stats and strong moves, isn't it? they're typically not allowed to have any actual interactions within the metagame, no matter how powercrept and unbalanced the meta starts out, and this is universally agreed upon as the correct way to go about things. even when they were mass-testing ubers for bw, they (correctly) decided that some were "broken beyond reasonable doubt" and didn't need testing at all. so there has to be some sort of cutoff point where something is broken in virtually any reasonable ou context by merit of its own self instead of its interactions with the meta. maybe i'm old and stodgy and my tolerance for the sort of minmaxing and hyperoptimization that's become commonplace in recent gens is just lower than average, or maybe the average power level of the whole tier has surpassed that cutoff all at once and it's no longer possible to properly clean up the mess. i won't fault anyone for going with the first option, it's certainly the more comforting oneYou can’t just say “oooh big stats strong moves broken” — those may be symptoms, but tiering is about the actual interactions within the metagame.