Unpopular opinions

[QuentinQuonce]

Here's another reason you couldn't have previous protags show up: gender options. There was no choice in RBY, you had to be Red. So there was no-one else who could appear in Mt Silver. But I recall when HGSS came out people were frantically speculating as to whether Leaf would appear in Red's place. It was honestly quite relentless for a time.

Early reports are saying she doesn't appear.
Leaf truthers: "well, maybe if you play as a girl, she'll be there!"
Nope, doesn't happen.
Leaf truthers: "But maybe if you beat Red 10 times Leaf will appear!"
She doesn't.
Leaf truthers: "Perhaps it's a 1 in 1000 chance!"
It's not.
Leaf truthers: "She might be in the game code!"
She isn't.
Leaf truthers: "There might be DLC!"

On and on and on it went.

But my point is this: all games after Gen I have have had a choice of protagonist. So if one of them ever showed up, you'd have to declare which of them was the canon protagonist and which was the NPC rival.

You can see why Game Freak might be reluctant to do this. It brings a whole new trickiness: as well as having to choose a canon six Pokemon, you have to declare whether the boy or girl option is the "true" one. And that's a can of worms Game Freak doesn't want to open. So all of the games which have referenced post-Gen I protagonists have always been very careful not to suggest who among them was canon. Cynthia describes the protagonist of the Sinnoh games as "that trainer", leaving it nice and ambiguously open as to who it was. Steven vaguely mentions "all the trainers who give [him] tough battles", not specifying who. If no Memory Link is used in B2W2, N just talks aimlessly about "that trainer" as well.

Sometimes less is more, and I firmly believe that this is a case in point. As interesting as it is that the BW protagonist remains absent in B2W2, allegedly voyaging in a far-off region searching for N (and possibly getting into brand-new adventures) I don't expect or hope that we'll ever see it. It is far, far more interesting to have that be left unseen than it would be to show it - and it wouldn't really add anything to the overall Unova plot unless we ever get a third installment.

 

[Pikachu315111]

green_typhlosion

I see your point.

Maybe it's best to leave having the previous protags just interacting in Masters where they're allowed to have personalities (even Red was allowed to say a sentence of dialogue).

 

[DrPumpkinz]

Here's another reason you couldn't have previous protags show up: gender options. There was no choice in RBY, you had to be Red. So there was no-one else who could appear in Mt Silver. But I recall when HGSS came out people were frantically speculating as to whether Leaf would appear in Red's place. It was honestly quite relentless for a time.

Early reports are saying she doesn't appear.
Leaf truthers: "well, maybe if you play as a girl, she'll be there!"
Nope, doesn't happen.
Leaf truthers: "But maybe if you beat Red 10 times Leaf will appear!"
She doesn't.
Leaf truthers: "Perhaps it's a 1 in 1000 chance!"
It's not.
Leaf truthers: "She might be in the game code!"
She isn't.
Leaf truthers: "There might be DLC!"

On and on and on it went.

But my point is this: all games after Gen I have have had a choice of protagonist. So if one of them ever showed up, you'd have to declare which of them was the canon protagonist and which was the NPC rival.

Ironically, HGSS specifically had a very obvious and very elegant way to not only give the player the option of Red or Leaf, but also enhancing the theme of being stronger than your past self by personalizing the final battle to individual players.

Dual slot mode.

Instead of just being a collection of Kanto's greatest hits that past you may or may not have used in your adventure through Firered or Leafgreen six years prior, the final battle's roster could have drawn from your hall of fame data.

The Gen 4 games were really the only games where doing something like this would really work, since the DS was the only time you could have two game cartridges inserted into a single console. Other than I guess transferring Pokemon from one generation to another, the games are designed for use with a single console. There's a reason trade evolutions and trading in general are framed as collaborative events between two trainers and not just a single trainer sending stuff between copies of themself. Buying two copies of the game so you can trade with yourself has always felt like a "cheat" or otherwise not how you're "supposed" to engage with the system.

Though now that I think about it, memory link requires you to own two Nintendo DS consoles. Wow, that is really not optimal at all. Is every Gen 5 connectivity feature insanely scuffed and poorly thought out?

I guess that's my unpopular opinion to keep this post from being too wishlisty. Memory link was a poorly implemented feature because it requires the possession of multiple Nintendo DS systems.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

I guess that's my unpopular opinion to keep this post from being too wishlisty. Memory link was a poorly implemented feature because it requires the possession of multiple Nintendo DS systems.

The one way this is possible is if you bought an older DS model a long time ago and later bought an updated one, like me who has both a DS Lite and a DSi because I upgraded to the latter some years after I bought my DS Lite, more specifically around 3 years later.

Maybe they were banking on many players owning both an older DS/DS Lite and the DSi from the fact that many probably upgraded their models, assuming they even kept their older DS (which I did). Either that or it was yet another ill conceived way of encouraging interactivity with friends amongst many of Gen 5's poorly thought out/short lived interactivity features.

EDIT: Or also having a 3DS in addition to a DS, which again I also have a 3DS ofc.

 

[Wukong]

No, what dilutes the Red fight is them using him over and over because he's the ONLY former protagonist you can battle as an NPC. Now, this probably wouldn't stop the reuses of Red, the only instance it possibly would may be for Sun & Moon (and even then possibly wouldn't prevent it cause 20th anniversary).

I also believe shoehorning Red battles into other games dilutes the significance of the GSC/HGSS fight. I don't think that opinion is mutually exclusive with believing that other protagonist fights would dilute the significance as well.

Also, if having other protags being battle-able in other games somehow takes away your enjoyment of Red being battle-able in HGSS, I gotta ask: Are you SURE you like the Red battle in HGSS (or Johto games in general)? Because it sounds like you actually don't, you only accept it because its the only former protag that can be battled, which isn't a good way to look at it.

I definitely enjoyed the Johto games, I don't think my opinion on other protagonist fights really affects that. I enjoyed them because of that underlying theme of proving underdog Johto can match Kanto as I pointed out earlier. As the protagonist I had a great sense of purpose. Despite the many criticisms I've levied against HGSS, just to steer this back on topic, my unpopular opinion is that I still have HGSS ranked above B2W2. The Red battle, in concept, is the perfect capstone to that sequel experience. Gen 5 could have handled this one of two ways: either combine the best of both BW and B2W2 worlds into a "Grey" version, or cap off B2W2 with a fight against the BW protagonist. I prefer the former but would have settled for the latter. Without either, I cannot consider B2W2 (which I still have fourth on my list behind Platinum, Emerald and HGSS) better than HGSS as sequels or games in general because it lacks something pretty significant in my book.

I think you're seeing things a bit too literally. The problem with the way they have presented Johto is that it didn't exist when they were making the first games. In-lore, the Gen I Pokemon in Johto are just as native as the new Gen II Pokemon (heck, they also have Gen II Pokemon appearing in Kanto including some exclusives (though that was probably a bad idea in the long run)). They're on the same landmass, they share the same shoreline, Pokemon from one are going to cross over to the other. It's not strange for half the Gym Leaders to be using Gen I mons because to them they are using native Pokemon, it's just out of meta the player saw that Pokemon a few years ago in the original Gen I games.

Johto isn't behind the times, its meant to be a counterpart to the more technologcial Kanto by focusing on traditions and history. Now, it could be because we're not native Japanese we miss a lot of these cultural reference, but to say they're "behind the times" is shortsighted to what they're trying to do with Johto. If Johto was just as technological as Kanto it would feel even more like just an expansion pack.

But yeah, a lot of Johto mons fall short. I mean, who uses Azumarill, Wobbuffet, Heracross, Sneasel, Skarmory, Donphan, Smeargle, Miltank, and Tyranitar? LOSERS, that's who. These Pokemon can't stack up to the likes of Butterfree, Beedrill, Raticate, Arbok, Wigglytuff, Vileplume, Venomoth, Dugtrio, Persian, Golduck, Victreebel, Golem, Rapidash, Farfetch'd, Dewgong, Hypno, Exeggutor, Lickitung, Tangela, & Seaking; all works of art and masters of battle. And how dare Johto defile Gen I Pokemon by giving them inferior evolutions like Crobat, Steelix, Scizor, Kingdra, & Blissey; without Johto they wouldn't exist and all their superior prevos would be better off for it!... This is sarcasm BTW. Sure, all Gen II Pokemon aren't winners, but neither are Gen I. Also should the number of Pokemon really be held against Johto? Okay, it has less Pokemon... so what? You wanted 150 new Pokemon and only them in the Johto? While I give crap to GF for sometimes not thinking ahead, I'll give early GF credit for thinking ahead about not only restraining the amount of new Pokemon but also using older Pokemon to fill out regional dexes cause there's nothing wrong with the older Pokemon so are vital tools.

But you're right about the Elite Four belonging to Kanto which is why it's located deep within Kanto, they don't accept the Johto Badges and they kept the Elite Four exactly the same as the Gen I games. Oh, wait, it's inbetween both Regions, they do accept the Johto Badges, and the only returning Elite Four members are Bruno and sorta Lance though he's now Champion; Lance who btw is from Blackthorn City which is located in Johto so the current Champion of the Indigo League is a Johtian (and the new "top" of the Elite Four uses the new Dark-type that was introduced in Gen II).

Also, could it also be a reason you feel Kanto is superior is because it was made the post game area thus every trainer there was given a higher level in order to keep up with the player? It's personally why I would like to see a game which starts out in Kanto but then lets the player go into Johto, to see how the Johto region adjusts to being the post game area that has to have the higher level trainers.

We'll agree to disagree on this point. I really don't see how Johto could be viewed as anything but inferior to Kanto, be it technologically, quality of Pokémon wise, or ownership of Indigo Plateau. Which is completely fine because it goes along with the theme I brought up earlier.

It's interesting, even the way Blue talks to you in the Johto games implies that he doesn't take you all that seriously being from Johto. Before battling him in HGSS his quote is: You're telling me you conquered all the Gyms in Johto? Hahaha! Heh! Johto's Gyms are that pathetic? Hey, don't worry about it. I'll know if you are good or not by battling you right now.". After defeating him he says: "This is the real power of Johto…".

You might think I'm reading into it too much, that that's just Blue being Blue, cocky and condescending. But interestingly, based on his game quotes Blue doesn't display that same level of disrespect for either the B2W2 protagonist at the PWT or the SuMo protagonist at the Battle Tree. It's like he's especially disdainful of you as the Johto protagonist, that he sees you as a younger sibling that will never be as good as the top trainers of Kanto like himself or Red. That second quote also kind of ties in nicely to the theme I brought up, of it being your job as the Johto protagonist to prove that Johto should be taken seriously.

Also, based on your first paragraph of this quoted section you're almost trying to argue that Kanto and Johto aren't separate regions, that there is no such thing as "Kanto Pokémon" or "Johto Pokémon" since they share the same landmass and shoreline. I disagree. Despite being right next to one another, they're two distinct regions and I think it's completely fair to look at the Johto gym rosters and wonder why they didn't use Johto native Pokemon, rather than rationalize it by saying the regions are right next to one another so cross pollination happens all the time.

I just want to note that you have an interesting perspective of this and I can see where you're coming from. It is certainly Johto showing they're as good as a region Kanto is... but I also feel that's done more through exploring the region and seeing what it has to offer than a hero of Johto coming to kick the butt of the previous protag. Because, he's a problem with that: we're no longer playing Red. Now he's just another NPC, controlled by the computer and, while made tough, was also made to lose just from the fact his Pokemon are locked. While if you lose to him you can go back and train, Red will never change his team, raise their levels, or change their Move. It's only a matter of time before you defeat Red. And, as I noted, the Champion is already a Johtian, if anything Johto has proven itself capable and its more Kanto is sort of stagnating. Though, once again, is it actually stagnating OR is it just that way to the player because we played the Kanto games so we know all about Kanto thus only the new stuff and what's going on with the characters has any novelty.

You're right, no other regions shares the dichotomy of Kanto & Johto, but that shouldn't mean characters from different regions can't interact with one another. Also when one of the core concepts of Pokemon is "being THE master" which seems to indicate being the strongest trainer, well, why wouldn't the other player characters go out looking for the other/future player characters?

I don't think traversing Kanto as the Johto protagonist is enough. Anyone can do that. And it doesn't matter that Red is an NPC and we are no longer controlling him. What matters is what he represents as a symbol, as the pinnacle of Kanto. Even the venue of the fight in HGSS atop Mt. Silver, alone, towering above everyone else, has thematic significance. Defeating him atop Mt. Silver makes a statement that completely dwarfs simply exploring the same region that Red did.

And to your second point, where would you draw the line? Unless you had a PWT like facility in every game to challenge all the previous protagonists, how can you justify putting one protagonist in one game versus another? Hoenn protagonist in Alola since they're both tropical? Or maybe Kalos in Galar since they're both based in Europe? They're all pretty weak connections. The only one that truly makes sense, in my opinion, is the Kanto protagonist in the Johto games for the reasons I've outlined.

 

[doipy hooves]

I guess that's my unpopular opinion to keep this post from being too wishlisty. Memory link was a poorly implemented feature because it requires the possession of multiple Nintendo DS systems.

You could use Memory Link to connect to the Global Link while it was up and enter a game sync ID to get the data using one system.
This part was actually pretty flexible as there's records of people using other people's IDs and also being able to resync with those different IDs.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

You could use Memory Link to connect to the Global Link while it was up and enter a game sync ID to get the data using one system.
This part was actually pretty flexible as there's records of people using other people's IDs and also being able to resync with those different IDs.

Alright, cool. I just looked up tutorials for how to memory link and all the ones I saw used two, so I just assumed that was how it needed to be done. It's good to know that at least this particular Gen 5 connectivity feature isn't terrible.

 

[Pikachu315111]

Without either, I cannot consider B2W2 (which I still have fourth on my list behind Platinum, Emerald and HGSS) better than HGSS as sequels or games in general because it lacks something pretty significant in my book.

Hey, I personally rank the original BW above B2W2. The problem with B2W2 is that it almost requires you to have played the original BW. Say what you want about Johto, but when I play a Johto game it at least feels like it can stand on its own. I stated my opinion more thoroughly when I compared Johto to Unova, but Johto I feel at the end of the day are their own games. The connection to Kanto is more of a bonus, and while you would enjoy more of the bonus had to play a Kanto game it's not really required to get what's going on. B2W2 is essentially a continuation of BW's story thanks to Ghetsis still running Neo Team Plasma and you start your journey because your rival asked you to help get his sister's Purrloin back which was stolen by Team Plasma two years earlier. Now together, BW and B2W2 I feel makes Gen V the best generation so far, and BW stands tall all on its own... it's just B2W2 which leans on BW maybe a little too much. Johto I never got a sense of that, certainly using it to prop itself up but never leaning back on it you don't know what's going on through context.

It's interesting, even the way Blue talks to you in the Johto games implies that he doesn't take you all that seriously being from Johto. Before battling him in HGSS his quote is: You're telling me you conquered all the Gyms in Johto? Hahaha! Heh! Johto's Gyms are that pathetic? Hey, don't worry about it. I'll know if you are good or not by battling you right now.". After defeating him he says: "This is the real power of Johto…".

You might think I'm reading into it too much, that that's just Blue being Blue, cocky and condescending. But interestingly, based on his game quotes Blue doesn't display that same level of disrespect for either the B2W2 protagonist at the PWT or the SuMo protagonist at the Battle Tree. It's like he's especially disdainful of you as the Johto protagonist, that he sees you as a younger sibling that will never be as good as the top trainers of Kanto like himself or Red. That second quote also kind of ties in nicely to the theme I brought up, of it being your job as the Johto protagonist to prove that Johto should be taken seriously.

As Blue got older he mellowed out. By the time of Gen II he was still young and egotistic, not helping was he personally was asked to run the Viridian Gym until they found a replacement so people still relied on him. Probably saw the Gen II protag as a "bigshot" from the other side of the lake and wanted to collect the Kanto Badges so decided to do is usual talking down to mess with them. From the sound of it he doesn't even know the Johto Gym Leaders.

In B2W2 he didn't outright insult the player but he did talk himself up. Being he was in Unova and not Kanto, could be Blue was more focused on representing Kanto, it's generally a frowned upon thing to go someplace and then insult it viciously. And finally in Gen VII, if he wasn't an adult in Gen V, he is now. He also heard of the player, the first Champion of Alola, likely from his 1st cousin twice removed, Samson Oak.

Despite being right next to one another, they're two distinct regions and I think it's completely fair to look at the Johto gym rosters and wonder why they didn't use Johto native Pokemon, rather than rationalize it by saying the regions are right next to one another so cross pollination happens all the time.

But they did. Also, technically by distribution, something I hinted at before, Murkrow, Houndour, & Slugma are strictly Kanto Pokemon. And depending on how you feel about Mt. Silver will determine where you think the only Pokemon found there fall: Misdreavus and Larvitar. Finally, in GS, Sneasel was found on Mt. Silver and Route 28 which was considered a Kanto route, though Crystal moved it to the Ice Caves (too bad HGSS didn't get the memo). So, yeah, it's kind of hard to say what Gen II Pokemon are truly "Johto native" when the regional dex includes plenty of Gen I Pokemon and several Gen II Pokemon are only found in Kanto.

BUT, let me fix the conversation here now: I think what you're trying to say is Johto EXCLUSIVE Pokemon. Not THAT'S a different discussion. Because, indeed, many of the Gen II Pokemon do tend to stick being in Johto. And, if they ever did a Let's Go Johto, I guess they could try. Looking back at an old Let's Go team roster I did, let's see what can be done:

Lets Go Johto Teams Take Two

Still going to follow the rules I set for myself back then: following the Let's Go layout for number of Pokemon (2, 2, 3, 3, 4, 4, 4, 4)(5 for Elite Four, 6 for Champion), will do Rematch teams (5 for Gym Leaders, 6 for Elite Four + Mega), try to give them as unique a line-up as possible trying to focus on Gen II Pokemon, and to give myself more wiggle room will allow Regional Variants for all rematch teams (cause some desperately need that, though whether to also include the Galar Regional Evolutions I'll leave that up in the air). Would have expanded Mega beyond Elite Four but Pryce doesn't have a Mega he can use. Also Gym Leaders who share Types I did let them use Pokemon the other had just cause it was just easier that way (especially for Clair and Lance). Note their last Pokemon is their "Ace".

• Falkner: Hoothoot & Pidgeotto
  (REMATCH: Farfetch'd, Delibird, Dodrio, Pidgeot, & Noctowl)
  (NOTE: Yeah, unless I gave him a low-level Noctowl or change his Pidgeotto to a Pidgey, it would have to wait for his rematch to make Noctowl his ace. And I can't give him Xatu or Skarmory as Will and Jasmine need them. Also since his gimmick are bird Pokemon can't give him the non-bird Flying-types.
  
  
• Bugsy: Ledyba & Scyther
  (REMATCH: Yanma, Shuckle, Pinsir, Ledian & Scizor)
  (NOTE: Bruno needs Heracross to be his Mega Pokemon and I'm only allowing Gym Leaders who share a Type share Pokemon. Shuckle is too gimmicky, Ledyba & Ledian too weak to be an ace, just have to wait until Scyther evolves into a Scizor in the rematches to have a Gen II ace)
  
  
• Whitney: Aipom, Jigglypuff & Miltank
  (REMATCH: Furret, Blissey, Aipom, Wigglytuff, & Miltank)
  (NOTE: Also Whitney's Gym is now in a shape of a Jigglypuff instead of Clefairy)
  
  
• Morty: Misdreavus, Clefable & Gengar
  (REMATCH: (G-Corsola/Cursula), A-Marowak, Clefable, Misdreavus & Gengar)
  (NOTE: If you're wondering why Clefable, it's because there's not enough Ghost-types so gave him a Fairy, Clefable specifically because of the rumors Gengar is based on its shadow and it had to find a new home after taking it away from Whitney. But, yeah, sorry, when compared to Gengar, Misdreavus is just too weak to the ace)
  
  
• Chuck: Primeape, Heracross, Poliwrath & Hitmontop
  (REMATCH: (G-Farfetch'd/Sirfetch'd), Primeape, Heracross, Poliwrath, Hitmontop)
  (NOTE: Since Chuck & Bruno share a Type he can use a Heracross on his team. And it's easy enough to swap Poliwrath with Hitmontop)
  
  
• Jasmine: Forretress, Magneton, Skarmory & Steelix
  (REMATCH: (Perrserker/A-Dugtrio), Forretress, Magneton, Skarmory & Steelix)
  
  
• Pryce: Sneasel, Cloyster, Dewgong & Piloswine
  (REMATCH: A-Sandslash, Sneasel, Cloyster, Dewgong & Piloswine)
  
  
• Clair: Dunsparce, Gyarados, Dragonair & Kingdra
  (REMATCH: A-Exeggutor, Dunsparce, Gyarados, Dragonite & Kingdra)
  
  
• Will: Wobbuffet, Girafarig, Slowking, Espeon, Xatu
  (REMATCH: Wobbuffet, Girafarig, Slowking, Espeon, Xatu & Mega Slowbro)
  
  
• Koga: Qwilfish, Weezing, Ariados, Muk & Crobat
  (REMATCH: Qwilfish, Weezing, Ariados, Muk, Crobat & Mega Beedrill)
  (NOTE: We'll just say he left Janine is Tentacruel and Venomoth as he adds a few of Johto's Pokemon to expand his Poison expertise)
  
  
• Bruno: Hitmontop, Hitmonchan, Hitmonlee, Machamp & Heracross
  (REMATCH: A-Golem, Hitmontop, Hitmonchan, Hitmonlee, Machamp & Mega Heracross)
  
  
• Karen: Murkrow, Granbull, Ursaring, Umbreon, Houndoom
  (REMATCH: A-Raticate, Murkrow, Granbull, Ursaring, Umbreon, & Mega Houndoom)
  
  
• Lance: Aerodactyl, Gyarados, Tyranitar, Kingdra, Mega Charizard, & Dragonite

And to your second point, where would you draw the line? Unless you had a PWT like facility in every game to challenge all the previous protagonists, how can you justify putting one protagonist in one game versus another? Hoenn protagonist in Alola since they're both tropical? Or maybe Kalos in Galar since they're both based in Europe? They're all pretty weak connections. The only one that truly makes sense, in my opinion, is the Kanto protagonist in the Johto games for the reasons I've outlined.

Grimsley, Dexio, Sina, Cynthia, Wally, Anabel, heck even Red & Blue had no reason to be in Gen VII... and yet GF put them in anyway. They didn't even give Grimsley an excuse why he was there and away from his Elite Four duty, he just was. Dexio and Sina says for some reason the Kalos Legendary Zygarde suddenly moved to Alola with no further explanation. Anabel I think they were trying to connect her story to what Zinnia said in ORAS with their being an alternate Hoenn, a plot thread that didn't really need continuing but decided it would be a way to "show off" the idea being the Ultra Wormholes. Red & Blue were called to host the Battle Tree, a job that I imagine dozens of others could have done but here just for pure fan pandering. And Cynthia and Wally (who isn't even a Champion) are in the Battle Tree just cause.

Let's agree to disagree, it's out of our control anyway. If GF doesn't want to put the other protags in, which seems to be the case, they're not going to (they're doing perfectly fine characterizing them in Masters so there's kind of no need to). However, this door goes the other way: if they want to put another gen protag into the games, they will do so whether it makes sense or not. This actually sort of reminds me of the time that the Pokemon Company got famed manga illustrator Yusuke Murata to draw an art piece during the release of USUM. His drawing was of two protags battling Ultra Necrozma... and the protags for some reason were Brendan and Rosa. No real reason, they were just there. Now, imagine just because of that image that GF went "eh, why not" and added in Rosa and Brendan in as Battle Tree challengers (seriously, why was there no DLC for the Battle Tree for other characters?). It would be silly, but would also be a reason even if it was just marketing (besides, being the Battle Tree is a post game area, they could easily pretend what happens there was non-canon).

 

[QuentinQuonce]

Lets Go Johto Teams Take Two

Still going to follow the rules I set for myself back then: following the Let's Go layout for number of Pokemon (2, 2, 3, 3, 4, 4, 4, 4)(5 for Elite Four, 6 for Champion), will do Rematch teams (5 for Gym Leaders, 6 for Elite Four + Mega), try to give them as unique a line-up as possible trying to focus on Gen II Pokemon, and to give myself more wiggle room will allow Regional Variants for all rematch teams (cause some desperately need that, though whether to also include the Galar Regional Evolutions I'll leave that up in the air). Would have expanded Mega beyond Elite Four but Pryce doesn't have a Mega he can use. Also Gym Leaders who share Types I did let them use Pokemon the other had just cause it was just easier that way (especially for Clair and Lance). Note their last Pokemon is their "Ace".

• Falkner: Hoothoot & Pidgeotto
  (REMATCH: Farfetch'd, Delibird, Dodrio, Pidgeot, & Noctowl)
  (NOTE: Yeah, unless I gave him a low-level Noctowl or change his Pidgeotto to a Pidgey, it would have to wait for his rematch to make Noctowl his ace. And I can't give him Xatu or Skarmory as Will and Jasmine need them. Also since his gimmick are bird Pokemon can't give him the non-bird Flying-types.
  
  
• Bugsy: Ledyba & Scyther
  (REMATCH: Yanma, Shuckle, Pinsir, Ledian & Scizor)
  (NOTE: Bruno needs Heracross to be his Mega Pokemon and I'm only allowing Gym Leaders who share a Type share Pokemon. Shuckle is too gimmicky, Ledyba & Ledian too weak to be an ace, just have to wait until Scyther evolves into a Scizor in the rematches to have a Gen II ace)
  
  
• Whitney: Aipom, Jigglypuff & Miltank
  (REMATCH: Furret, Blissey, Aipom, Wigglytuff, & Miltank)
  (NOTE: Also Whitney's Gym is now in a shape of a Jigglypuff instead of Clefairy)
  
  
• Morty: Misdreavus, Clefable & Gengar
  (REMATCH: (G-Corsola/Cursula), A-Marowak, Clefable, Misdreavus & Gengar)
  (NOTE: If you're wondering why Clefable, it's because there's not enough Ghost-types so gave him a Fairy, Clefable specifically because of the rumors Gengar is based on its shadow and it had to find a new home after taking it away from Whitney. But, yeah, sorry, when compared to Gengar, Misdreavus is just too weak to the ace)
  
  
• Chuck: Primeape, Heracross, Poliwrath & Hitmontop
  (REMATCH: (G-Farfetch'd/Sirfetch'd), Primeape, Heracross, Poliwrath, Hitmontop)
  (NOTE: Since Chuck & Bruno share a Type he can use a Heracross on his team. And it's easy enough to swap Poliwrath with Hitmontop)
  
  
• Jasmine: Forretress, Magneton, Skarmory & Steelix
  (REMATCH: (Perrserker/A-Dugtrio), Forretress, Magneton, Skarmory & Steelix)
  
  
• Pryce: Sneasel, Cloyster, Dewgong & Piloswine
  (REMATCH: A-Sandslash, Sneasel, Cloyster, Dewgong & Piloswine)
  
  
• Clair: Dunsparce, Gyarados, Dragonair & Kingdra
  (REMATCH: A-Exeggutor, Dunsparce, Gyarados, Dragonite & Kingdra)
  
  
• Will: Wobbuffet, Girafarig, Slowking, Espeon, Xatu
  (REMATCH: Wobbuffet, Girafarig, Slowking, Espeon, Xatu & Mega Slowbro)
  
  
• Koga: Qwilfish, Weezing, Ariados, Muk & Crobat
  (REMATCH: Qwilfish, Weezing, Ariados, Muk, Crobat & Mega Beedrill)
  (NOTE: We'll just say he left Janine is Tentacruel and Venomoth as he adds a few of Johto's Pokemon to expand his Poison expertise)
  
  
• Bruno: Hitmontop, Hitmonchan, Hitmonlee, Machamp & Heracross
  (REMATCH: A-Golem, Hitmontop, Hitmonchan, Hitmonlee, Machamp & Mega Heracross)
  
  
• Karen: Murkrow, Granbull, Ursaring, Umbreon, Houndoom
  (REMATCH: A-Raticate, Murkrow, Granbull, Ursaring, Umbreon, & Mega Houndoom)
  
  
• Lance: Aerodactyl, Gyarados, Tyranitar, Kingdra, Mega Charizard, & Dragonite

Why not Mega Ampharos for Lance?

You could use Memory Link to connect to the Global Link while it was up and enter a game sync ID to get the data using one system.
This part was actually pretty flexible as there's records of people using other people's IDs and also being able to resync with those different IDs.

Wow, I... never knew this was a thing. Huh.

We'll agree to disagree on this point. I really don't see how Johto could be viewed as anything but inferior to Kanto, be it technologically, quality of Pokémon wise, or ownership of Indigo Plateau. Which is completely fine because it goes along with the theme I brought up earlier.

It's interesting, even the way Blue talks to you in the Johto games implies that he doesn't take you all that seriously being from Johto. Before battling him in HGSS his quote is: You're telling me you conquered all the Gyms in Johto? Hahaha! Heh! Johto's Gyms are that pathetic? Hey, don't worry about it. I'll know if you are good or not by battling you right now.". After defeating him he says: "This is the real power of Johto…".

You might think I'm reading into it too much, that that's just Blue being Blue, cocky and condescending. But interestingly, based on his game quotes Blue doesn't display that same level of disrespect for either the B2W2 protagonist at the PWT or the SuMo protagonist at the Battle Tree. It's like he's especially disdainful of you as the Johto protagonist, that he sees you as a younger sibling that will never be as good as the top trainers of Kanto like himself or Red. That second quote also kind of ties in nicely to the theme I brought up, of it being your job as the Johto protagonist to prove that Johto should be taken seriously.

Definitely this. It doesn't actually even seem like there's that much traffic between the two regions; lots of NPCs in Kanto say things like "oh, you come from Johto, don't you? What's that like?" Whereas people in Johto talk about the events of RBY as though it happened there; Red's exploits are famous enough to be discussed by residents of Johto cities and towns, whereas no-one in Kanto has heard of Gold/Kris. Compared to Kanto, with its big cities and booming industry, Johto seems very much a quiet sort of backwater place.

 

[Suspicious Derivative]

Here's another reason you couldn't have previous protags show up: gender options. There was no choice in RBY, you had to be Red. So there was no-one else who could appear in Mt Silver. But I recall when HGSS came out people were frantically speculating as to whether Leaf would appear in Red's place. It was honestly quite relentless for a time.

This, too. Why couldn't Leaf have been anywhere in HG/SS alongside Red? Or why couldn't it have been Leaf instead of Red? Regarding the former, one idea I have seen floating around is to make Leaf a Frontier Brain. I think that would be great because it would solve another problem with HG/SS at the same time. It would allow HG/SS to have different Frontier Brains than Platinum, would make it feel more interesting to go through the Frontier a second time. For me, at least.

Also, the same problem comes up regarding the concept of the protagonists from other games returning in any games after the games where they were playable. How would their gender be determined? Or would both of them appear at the same time? There's just too many issues for this idea to work properly if you ask me, and I am glad we have never gotten to see anything like it besides Red (and Green in LGP/E).

Sometimes less is more, and I firmly believe that this is a case in point. As interesting as it is that the BW protagonist remains absent in B2W2, allegedly voyaging in a far-off region searching for N (and possibly getting into brand-new adventures) I don't expect or hope that we'll ever see it. It is far, far more interesting to have that be left unseen than it would be to show it - and it wouldn't really add anything to the overall Unova plot unless we ever get a third installment.

I agree with all of this too. One thing I really like with B2/W2 was how they handled Memory Link. If you used Memory Link, you got to see the name you gave to your character from B/W, not just their default name. And if you didn't use Memory Link, they would never be named, just referred to as "that trainer", like you said. I thought this was amazing and I loved it. Yet another thing with the sequel aspect that I think B2/W2 did better than G/S/C or HG/SS.

In comparison, I never really got the same feeling from meeting Red in the Johto games. Seeing what was supposed to be "me" (or rather my player character from R/B/Y or FR/LG), but said character having a team I had no connection to as well as being named "Red" just didn't work for me. I never named any of my player characters in the Kanto games "Red", so him being named that way just took away the feeling it was supposed to give, unlike if he had carried the name I had given to my player character in the Kanto games.

The one way this is possible is if you bought an older DS model a long time ago and later bought an updated one, like me who has both a DS Lite and a DSi because I upgraded to the latter some years after I bought my DS Lite, more specifically around 3 years later.

Not necessarily. There are also those like me who own 2 DS lite. This gave me the ability to trade and connect with myself whenever I wanted, without having to rely on someone else. I actually never owned a DSi, never saw the need to get one when I already had my 2 DS lite when the DSi was announced. As for why I have 2 DS lite, I had originally planned to get an original DS, but by the time I finally got around to it, the DS lite already existed. So I got a lite instead. And when I got my second one, the DSi didn't exist yet.

I also thought a bit more about Memory Link since it was discussed here. First of all, HG/SS definitely had the option to have a Memory Link (or something similar to it) through Dual-slot mode, but they didn't, and I think that's a big wasted opportunity (like pretty much everything else with HG/SS). Now that I look back, I wish HG/SS had used Dual-slot mode more than they did. Unless I'm forgetting something, they only really used it for Pal Park. While D/P/P didn't use it that much more than HG/SS, it was a little more at least. I thought the Dongle method for encountering Pokémon you otherwise couldn't find was really cool and fun. It would have been great if HG/SS had done something similar, they could at least have utilized R/S/E to let you encounter Hoenn Pokémon through this method. Not sure about FR/LG though, HG/SS are already filled to the brim with Kanto Pokémon everywhere and there's absolutely no point in making the Kanto Pokémon even more common. Maybe FR/LG could have made the Johto Pokémon more common instead? Oh, the irony! Or allowed you to meet Sinnoh Pokémon, though that feels very out of place. With all of that said, I guess one reason HG/SS didn't use Dual-slot that much was because when they were released, the newest DS version was the DSi, which did not allow for insertion of GBA carts. Perhaps that's why.

In comparison, I loved Memory Link in B2/W2. Everything about it was amazing, and I think the overall execution was great too as it could be used through either local wireless or online (though not anymore since the PGL has closed, sadly). I think B2/W2 absolutely nailed the sequel aspect for a Pokémon game, and while G/S/C and HG/SS got some things right, it feels like they were just sort of beta testing how to do a proper sequel. Thankfully they could use those experiences to do B2/W2 right later on.

There's another thing I want to bring up when it comes to these subjects. Apparently, there was a planned battle against the B/W protagonist at the PWT in B2/W2 according to the beta, but it was scrapped. More info about it can be found on Bulbapedia here or TCRF here. While I am happy that this was scrapped, I would have been okay with it because of one thing. It shows that when the previous protagonist was to be battled, they had actual dialogue instead of being silent NPCs. On a similar note, I would also have been okay with the return of Red in the Johto games (and all other games he had reappeared in) if they had given him a personality and dialogue instead of making him silent. Too bad they didn't. While I haven't played LGP/E, I am actually okay with Green being an NPC in these games because they gave her dialogue and some personality, which seems great.

Sorry if this got too deep into speculation/wishlisting, I just wanted to make some replies and write down some more thoughts on these subjects.

Also, congrats to this thread for hitting 400 pages! Pretty sure it is the largest thread in OI at this point. 400 pages of unpopular opinions and discussions about them... crazy. Here's to 400 more!

 

[Siggu]

Now that I look back, I wish HG/SS had used Dual-slot mode more than they did.

If I were to think of a reason, it might have something to do with the fact the DSi was already released by the point HGSS were released, so there was no real benefit in giving Dual-slot mode more features.

 

[Suspicious Derivative]

If I were to think of a reason, it might have something to do with the fact the DSi was already released by the point HGSS were released, so there was no real benefit in giving Dual-slot mode more features.

You mean, just like I said at a somewhat later point in the very post you are quoting?

With all of that said, I guess one reason HG/SS didn't use Dual-slot that much was because when they were released, the newest DS version was the DSi, which did not allow for insertion of GBA carts. Perhaps that's why.

...

But it seems like we are thinking the same thing regarding this, so that's cool.

 

[Magnus0]

I think the gen 2 gym leaders aren't as bad as people say, at least not in concept. I really appreciate that some of the bosses in HGSS use some kind of gimmick or strategy, often revolving around the tm they give away. For example, Chuck's signature move is focus punch, so he uses two different ways of avoiding getting hit, double team and hypnosis. This is actually really clever design, because it offers a unique challenge, and it also showcases the potential of the shiny new tm you get as a reward for beating Chuck.

Pryce's team is about hail stall. He has one hail setter, and two Pokemon that use the hail to stall you out. Dewgong has resttalk, which completely shuts down weaker Pokemon while they get chipped away by the hail. Piloswine attempts to stall with snow cloak. It also has mud bomb, which further reduces accuracy, and blizzard, which becomes perfectly accurate in hail. Even ice fang can help Piloswine avoid getting hit by flinching or freezing the opponent. Obviously, the execution of this hail stall team is shoddy at best, but I think it's clear that some thought went into Pryce's strategy.

Even the gym leaders that give away a move that doesn't lend itself well to gimmick strategy (like Morty) have a gimmick, it just doesn't revolve around his signature move. Morty's entire team uses status conditions. He has two Pokemon that use the mean look + curse combo, while his remaining Pokemon have hypnosis. The haunter with hypnosis even has dream eater and nightmare to take advantage of hypnosis.

Even some of the kanto leaders have their own gimmick. Lt. Surge is a bastard cheater with double team spam, Erika has a full on chlorophyl sunnybeam team (with terrible coverage) and Blaine uses white herb overheat on all of his Pokemon. Again, the execution of all of these teams could be a lot better, but at least they tried.

It's not often that you see this approach to boss design in Pokemon. The best example of gimmicks and team synergy would probably be the totem fights from gen 7. Other than that, most bosses are just a gauntlet of Pokemon that are just strong in general, rather than a team of Pokemon that contribute to a larger strategy. There's nothing really wrong with that per se, but I like the more gimmicky teams. They can catch you off guard more easily and that makes them more memorable.

 

[Sugarbear]

I would like to see a region based on Columbia. Why? Columbia is the most bio-diverse country on earth, home to bears, big cats, birds of prey and much much more. It has lots of diversity in terms of scenery. And before anybody makes jokes about cocaine, much more of Columbia’s GDP comes from nickel, coffee and gold.

 

[Pikachu315111]

And before anybody makes jokes about cocaine, much more of Columbia’s GDP comes from nickel, coffee and gold.

Pfft, no one thinks of cocaine when they think of Columbia anymore...

They think of blimps and rails

 

[Bakugames]

We'll agree to disagree on this point. I really don't see how Johto could be viewed as anything but inferior to Kanto, be it technologically, quality of Pokémon wise, or ownership of Indigo Plateau. Which is completely fine because it goes along with the theme I brought up earlier.

The main issue is that I think the pokémon sucking is just gamefreak not knowing game balance. I don't think they'd do something like that intentionally for this narrative lol.

It's also extremely hard to believe the argument that Johto is lagging behind technology advancements when they use the exact same, if not better, Kanto systems. The pokémon center got upgraded with extra areas and a better PC, they have a whole train system going on with Kanto, a radio tower, a brand new phone system that connects to it and shows you the map, hell prof. elm's lab literally looks like an upgrade of oak's. Just because the region focus on maintaining its culture instead of assimilating to Kanto's urbanization, doesn't mean they're struggling behind with technology. This is a mirror of the differences of real-life Japanese provinces. Some are more rural, some are more modern, but most enjoy similar technological advances available to them.

 

[Wukong]

The main issue is that I think the pokémon sucking is just gamefreak not knowing game balance. I don't think they'd do something like that intentionally for this narrative lol.

It's also extremely hard to believe the argument that Johto is lagging behind technology advancements when they use the exact same, if not better, Kanto systems. The pokémon center got upgraded with extra areas and a better PC, they have a whole train system going on with Kanto, a radio tower, a brand new phone system that connects to it and shows you the map, hell prof. elm's lab literally looks like an upgrade of oak's. Just because the region focus on maintaining its culture instead of assimilating to Kanto's urbanization, doesn't mean they're struggling behind with technology. This is a mirror of the differences of real-life Japanese provinces. Some are more rural, some are more modern, but most enjoy similar technological advances available to them.

I agree with your first point, but I don't take away points from GSC or HGSS just because GF didn't intentionally design them a certain way. The end result is what I'm mainly focused on, not GF's design philosophy. A lot of great innovations happen by accident.

You bring up some interesting points about technology. Looking at each one:

1. I don't think it's clear that the upgraded Pokémon Center or PC originated in Johto. As the GSC protagonist you see them for the first time in Johto since that's where you start. But those same upgrades exist in Kanto when you visit the region later in the game. We know these innovations mainly stem from Bill. It seems to me Bill is a Goldenrod native who does most of his experimentation and invention in his cottage north of Cerulean (ex. the teleporter). I think there's a high chance Bill implemented these systems in Kanto first only to later bring them to his native region Johto. But let's call this a wash.

2. The Magnet Train is not owned by either Goldenrod or Saffron City. It's inspired by a real life train that runs between Osaka and Tokyo, owned by a company that isn't affiliated with either. Again, you see this for the first time in Johto through the eyes of the GSC protagonist but that doesn't mean it belongs to or originated in Johto. You could argue it belongs to Kanto since they actually own the Plant that powers the train, but let's call this a wash too.

3. Kanto also has a Radio Tower which replaced the Pokémon Tower in Lavender Town. Again, just because we see the Goldenrod Radio Tower first in the games doesn't mean they implemented it first in the three years between RBY and GSC.

4. I don't see how Elm's lab looks more advanced than Oak's. Aesthetically they look pretty similar aside from generational differences. But maybe that's just me.

These all even out. What puts Kanto over the top for me technologically are three things:

1. Silph Co. - Kanto takes a massive lead in tech by having the leading manufacturer of Poke Balls, medicine, repels and TMs located in its region. Johto has nothing which even remotely compares. Oh and that fancy Pokegear you receive at the beginning of HGSS? That has a Silph logo on it. Interesting.

2. Fossils - Kanto builds on its lead by having the technology to resurrect fossils. That's pretty extraordinary. Johto, interestingly, is one of only two regions to not even have fossils native to its region let alone the technology to resurrect them.

3. Legendaries - Kanto closes the case for me by taking one look at their legendaries. Johto has Ho-Oh and Lugia, more or less the God of the Sun and Sea, respectively. Mythical creatures. Kanto has Mewtwo, a man made creation and marvel of genetic engineering. Hmm.

I think it's pretty clear Kanto not only blows Johto out of the water technologically, it might be the most technologically advanced region in all of Pokémon. Feel free to disagree.

 

[Bakugames]

These all even out. What puts Kanto over the top for me technologically are three things:

1. Silph Co. - Kanto takes a massive lead in tech by having the leading manufacturer of Poke Balls, medicine, repels and TMs located in its region. Johto has nothing which even remotely compares. Oh and that fancy Pokegear you receive at the beginning of HGSS? That has a Silph logo on it. Interesting.

2. Fossils - Kanto builds on its lead by having the technology to resurrect fossils. That's pretty extraordinary. Johto, interestingly, is one of only two regions to not even have fossils native to its region let alone the technology to resurrect them.

3. Legendaries - Kanto closes the case for me by taking one look at their legendaries. Johto has Ho-Oh and Lugia, more or less the God of the Sun and Sea, respectively. Mythological figures. Kanto has Mewtwo, a man made creation and marvel of genetic engineering. Hmm.

I think it's pretty clear Kanto not only blows Johto out of the water technologically, it might be the most technologically advanced region in all of Pokémon. Feel free to disagree.

I think the issue is that while Kanto is a big technology manufacturer, that technology is also extremely accessible to a johtonian citizen. It's a bit hard for me to grasp Johto lagging behind, actually, because to explain better, it feels less like the difference between, let's say, Kyoto and Saga, but the difference between Shimogyō-ku and Ukyō-ku, two of the Kyoto wards. The former is clearly a more technological and administrative scape. High urbanization, all that jazz. Ukyō-ku has a lot more of the traditional and the culture going on there. Sure, Shimigyō-ku holds more of the companies and factories, but that doesn't mean Ukyō-ku isn't advanced by itself, it's actually one of the more advanced regions of Japan (and Kyoto in general). They're sister wards, one needing the other for something.

That's the dynamic I get from Kanto and Johto. In fact, I'd argue Kanto is inferior, as it succumbed to urbanization and lost its touch with its own culture, something Johto could easily balance.

 

[Wukong]

I think the issue is that while Kanto is a big technology manufacturer, that technology is also extremely accessible to a johtonian citizen. It's a bit hard for me to grasp Johto lagging behind, actually, because to explain better, it feels less like the difference between, let's say, Kyoto and Saga, but the difference between Shimogyō-ku and Ukyō-ku, two of the Kyoto wards. The former is clearly a more technological and administrative scape. High urbanization, all that jazz. Ukyō-ku has a lot more of the traditional and the culture going on there. Sure, Shimigyō-ku holds more of the companies and factories, but that doesn't mean Ukyō-ku isn't advanced by itself, it's actually one of the more advanced regions of Japan (and Kyoto in general). They're sister wards, one needing the other for something.

That's the dynamic I get from Kanto and Johto. In fact, I'd argue Kanto is inferior, as it succumbed to urbanization and lost its touch with its own culture, something Johto could easily balance.

Fair enough. Just to use the US as perhaps a more relatable example: Kanto is like Silicon Valley, a huge exporter of all kinds of technology. Just because parts of the Deep South have easy access to this technology in today's day and age, doesn't mean you can put Silicon Valley and the Deep South on equal footing as regions when judging them technologically. One is clearly more advanced than the other.

And I get your cultural point but it's subjective. I see San Francisco as more influential in the US today (for better or for worse) than say for example Philadelphia. The former specializes in tech while the latter's main draw is culture and history.

I guess I'm not saying Kanto is inherently superior to Johto so much as it is more influential. Kanto fits the bigger brother mold of getting the cool toys and gadgets first, only to hand them down to their little brother Johto. Johto might give off a more humane vibe by way of its culture but that doesn't mean it has the same kind of power and influence as Kanto. This fits nicely into an underdog narrative.

Anyway let's agree to disagree. I don't want to get too off topic plus there's not much else I can say in support of my argument.

 

[Pikachu315111]

I think it's pretty clear Kanto not only blows Johto out of the water technologically, it might be the most technologically advanced region in all of Pokémon. Feel free to disagree.

Than Johto? Sure (though my previous argument wasn't that Kanto wasn't more technically advanced, it is, but that Johto wasn't "behind the times" but rather was focused on its culture and traditions which it seems to have more of than Kanto. Does that mean Kanto didn't have its own culture and tradition that might have been worth preserving? No, but probably not as much as Johto which is why Kanto went the more technological route as it just didn't have to worry that much about paving over landmarks).

But the rest of the world? I feel Galar had just taken that crown, though even before than I'd say Unova took it from Kanto. You could make an argument whether Kalos may have also had a shot, as well as ORAS's version of Hoenn, but Galar is probably the most modern region we have having 3 major cities which you are very technological in their own way (Motostoke is very steampunk, Hammerlocke has the powe plant, and Wyndon you could probably see from space when it's night there).

 

[Wukong]

Than Johto? Sure (though my previous argument wasn't that Kanto wasn't more technically advanced, it is, but that Johto wasn't "behind the times" but rather was focused on its culture and traditions which it seems to have more of than Kanto. Does that mean Kanto didn't have its own culture and tradition that might have been worth preserving? No, but probably not as much as Johto which is why Kanto went the more technological route as it just didn't have to worry that much about paving over landmarks).

I did caveat that point by saying Johto was behind the times "in comparison", in this case to Kanto. For which I outlined all the reasons in my last two posts. Johto choosing to focus on culture comes at a cost, in this case the cost being diverting its attention away from other fields such as tech.

And I am not advocating tech is better than culture or the inverse. It doesn't matter what my personal opinion is on that subject. What matters is me objectively assessing the regions and observing in my view that they fit into a narrative of one region being more powerful than the other in multiple facets, with the less powerful region needing to prove its strength. Me saying Johto is less advanced than Kanto is not meant to be negative; it's positive because it further fuels this narrative and is a big plus for GSC and HGSS. There's not much else I can say about it.

But the rest of the world? I feel Galar had just taken that crown, though even before than I'd say Unova took it from Kanto. You could make an argument whether Kalos may have also had a shot, as well as ORAS's version of Hoenn, but Galar is probably the most modern region we have having 3 major cities which you are very technological in their own way (Motostoke is very steampunk, Hammerlocke has the powe plant, and Wyndon you could probably see from space when it's night there).

Fair enough, there are other contenders. I did say Kanto "might" be the most technologically advanced, opening the possibility for others. The only opinion I feel truly strong about is Kanto beating Johto in tech, which is the only opinion that really matters as it pertains to GSC and HGSS.

It is worth noting that Kanto contains the city inspired by Tokyo (Saffron City) which is considered by many to be the most technologically advanced city in the real world. Which might be true to form considering the presence of Silph Co. and the Magnet Train in Saffron. It would be unfair to judge Kanto and Galar on the surface considering the former was first introduced over 25 years ago and the latter was released less than 2 years ago. There will naturally be huge generational differences. I think it would be more fair to judge the regions by what they represent, as the Pokémon equivalent of Japan and the U.K., respectively. The U.K and London are certainly very advanced, but Japan and specifically Tokyo have them beat by quite a bit in tech. And as advanced as the U.S and NYC are I still think Japan/Tokyo beats them, and by extension Kanto beating Unova in tech.

Again, I don't feel as strongly about this as my Kanto versus Johto comparison but those are my two cents.

 

[pokemon4eva]

When rewatching, there's something I didn't like about the final battle with Paul.

Simply put, Paul didn't bring up his best mons, instead using some never before seen team. Paul started losing mons quick, and there's a bit of dialogue from Brock that bothers me: Paul apparently planned this. Why? In order to lure Ash into a false sense of security.

I'm sorry but, what DUMBASS ever does that?! He basically just sacked a third of its team, in the quarterfinal match, and THAT'S CALLED A GOOD STRATEGY?! I was already bothered that Paul doesn't bring some of its stronger mons like Torterra and Ursaring, but then the writing justifies this choke as being actually genius. Seriously, does Paul ever take the L when isn't against a veteran trainer?

 

[The Mind Electric]

When rewatching, there's something I didn't like about the final battle with Paul.
View attachment 360736

Simply put, Paul didn't bring up his best mons, instead using some never before seen team. Paul started losing mons quick, and there's a bit of dialogue from Brock that bothers me: Paul apparently planned this. Why? In order to lure Ash into a false sense of security.

I'm sorry but, what DUMBASS ever does that?! He basically just sacked a third of its team, in the quarterfinal match, and THAT'S CALLED A GOOD STRATEGY?! I was already bothered that Paul doesn't bring some of its stronger mons like Torterra and Ursaring, but then the writing justifies this choke as being actually genius. Seriously, does Paul ever take the L when isn't against a veteran trainer?

Why didn't Paul just bring an entire team of strong new Pokémon to completely destroy any plan Ash had going in? Sure, it wouldn't actually do anything because Ash almost never has a plan more complex than brute-forcing wins with the power of friendship, but it would at least be a decent idea in theory.

 

[pokemon4eva]

Why didn't Paul just bring an entire team of strong new Pokémon to completely destroy any plan Ash had going in? Sure, it wouldn't actually do anything because Ash almost never has a plan more complex than brute-forcing wins with the power of friendship, but it would at least be a decent idea in theory.

I can see that happening, it kinda reminds me of Blue in Adventures, whose title as Dex Holder is Trainer, he constantly shakes up his team and trains up new members for combat. Although Paul was doing pretty good in the league with his regular team, sweeping Barry with ease. I'd like to think he overstimated Ash and that costed him the win lol.

 

[mertyville]

I can see that happening, it kinda reminds me of Blue in Adventures, whose title as Dex Holder is Trainer, he constantly shakes up his team and trains up new members for combat. Although Paul was doing pretty good in the league with his regular team, sweeping Barry with ease. I'd like to think he overstimated Ash and that costed him the win lol.

not only that, he taunted Infernape to go all out. He could have won in so many situations, but chose to let his Pokemon knocked out especially his E-Vire.