|40||Min Speed Ferrothorn|
|94||Min Speed Donphan|
|96||Bulky Snorlax, Bulky Slowbro, Bulky Reuniclus, Bulky Cofagrigus|
|126||Bulky Crustle, Bulky Conkeldurr|
|136||Bulky Sableye, Bulky Chansey, Bulky Registeel, Bulky Hariyama, Bulky Azumarill|
|146||Bulky Blissey, Bulky Cacturne, Bulky Exeggutor|
|156||Bulky Jellicent, Bulky Swampert, Bulky Empoleon, Bulky Clefable, Bulky Porygon2|
|166||Bulky Scizor, Bulky Umbreon|
|179||Max Speed Carracosta|
|216||Bulky Porygon-Z, Bulky Meloetta, Bulky Roserade|
|236||Bulky Manaphy, Bulky Shaymin, Bulky Zapdos, Bulky Slaking, Bulky Entei|
|239||Fast Metagross, Fast Breloom|
|252||Bulky Keldeo, +2 Bulky Crustle, Max Speed Magnezone, Bulky Cobalion|
|259||Fast Chandelure, Fast Medicham|
|269||Fast Cresselia, Fast Sawk, Fast Heracross|
|273||Fast Hitmonlee, Max Speed Smeargle|
|278||Max Speed Heatran|
|279||Fast Porygon-Z, Fast Meloetta|
|284||Max Speed Chandelure|
|287||Max Speed Gyarados|
|289||Fast Kyurem, Fast Arcanine, Fast Darmanitan|
|295||Max Speed Suicune, Max Speed Heracross|
|298||Max Speed Rotom-H|
|299||Fast Volcarona, Fast Manaphy, Fast Zapdos, Fast Slaking|
|301||Fast Thundurus-T, Fast Landorus|
|306||Max Speed Porygon-Z, Max Speed Moltres|
|311||Max Speed Krookodile|
|317||Max Speed Kyurem, Max Speed Darmanitan|
|322||Max Speed Haxorus|
|324||Max Speed Hydreigon|
|326||Max Speed Genesect|
|328||Max Speed Volcarona, Max Speed Shaymin, Max Speed Zapdos, Max Speed Celebi, Max Speed Staraptor|
|331||Scarf Fast Tyranitar, +1 Fast Tyranitar, Max Speed Thundurus-T, Max Speed Landorus|
|333||Max Speed Garchomp, Max Speed Mienshao|
|346||Max Speed Keldeo, Max Speed Terrakion, Max Speed Infernape, Max Speed Virizion|
|348||Max Speed Durant|
|350||Max Speed Latios, Max Speed Latias, Max Speed Archeops, Max Speed Gengar|
|353||Max Speed Thundurus, Max Speed Tornadus|
|358||Scarf Fast Metagross, +2 Max Speed Carracosta|
|360||Scarf Max Speed Jellicent|
|361||Max Speed Raikou, Max Speed Ambipom, Max Speed Starmie, Max Speed Cinccino|
|372||Max Speed Alakazam, Max Speed Sceptile|
|375||Max Speed Tornadus-T|
|378||+2 Fast Crustle, Scarf Fast Heatran|
|388||Scarf Fast Chandelure, Scarf Fast Mammoswine, Scarf Fast Medicham|
|391||Scarf Fast Gyarados|
|394||Max Speed Aerodactyl|
|403||Scarf Fast Cresselia, Scarf Fast Sawk, Scarf Fast Heracross|
|419||Scarf Fast Porygon-Z|
|421||Scarf Fast Landorus-T|
|426||Scarf Max Speed Medicham|
|439||Scarf Fast Haxorus|
|442||Scarf Max Speed Heracross|
|448||+1 Fast Volcarona|
|472||Scarf Fast Keldeo|
|475||Scarf Max Speed Kyurem, Scarf Max Speed Darmanitan|
|486||Scarf Max Speed Hydreigon|
|489||Scarf Max Speed Genesect|
|492||+1 Max Speed Volcarona, Scarf Max Speed Salamence, Scarf Max Speed Staraptor|
|499||Scarf Max Speed Garchomp|
|519||Scarf Max Speed Terrakion|
|525||Scarf Max Speed Archeops|
|538||Rain Boosted Fast Kingdra|
|546||Unburden Fast Hitmonlee|
|594||+2 Fast Genesect|
|116||Bulky Rhyperior, Fast Camerupt|
|126||Bulky Armaldo, Bulky Dusknoir|
|136||Bulky Hariyama, Bulky Registeel, Bulky Tangrowth, Bulky Azumarill, Bulky Regice, Bulky Regirock|
|146||Bulky Blissey, Bulky Ursaring|
|156||Bulky Clefable, Bulky Swampert, Bulky Empoleon, Bulky Abomasnow, Bulky Porygon2|
|166||Bulky Scizor, Bulky Umbreon, Bulky Walrein|
|196||Bulky Venusaur, Bulky Medicham, Bulky Mamoswine, Bulky Blaziken|
|206||Bulky Cresselia, Bulky Suicune, Bulky Heracross, Bulky Articuno|
|219||Fast Clefable, Fast Magnezone|
|227||-Nature Fast Heatran|
|229||Max Speed Ursaring|
|236||Bulky Jirachi, Bulky Slaking, Bulky Entei|
|240||Max Speed Magnezone|
|269||Fast Cresselia, Fast Kingdra, Fast Heracross|
|284||Max Speed Dragonite, Max Speed Gallade, Max Speed Mamoswine|
|289||Fast Arcanine, Fast Electivire, Fast Yanmega, Fast Gliscor|
|295||Max Speed Suicune, Max Speed Heracross|
|298||Max Speed Rotom-A|
|299||Fast Zapdos, Fast Jirachi, Fast Celebi, Fast Slaking, Fast Staraptor, Fast Entei, Fast Flygon|
|306||Max Speed Moltres, Max Speed Lucario|
|310||Scarf Max Speed Dusknoir|
|317||Max Speed Houndoom|
|328||Max Speed Zapdos, Max Speed Jirachi, Max Speed Slaking, Max Speed Staraptor, Max Speed Flygon|
|331||+1 Fast Tyranitar|
|340||Scarf -Nature Fast Heatran|
|346||Max Speed Infernape|
|350||Max Speed Gengar|
|360||Scarf Max Speed Abomasnow|
|361||Max Speed Raikou, Max Speed Azelf, Max Speed Ambipom, Max Speed Starmie|
|364||Scarf Max Speed Tyranitar|
|372||Max Speed Sceptile, Max Speed Alakazam|
|383||Max Speed Weavile|
|388||Scarf Fast Dragonite|
|391||+1 Fast Gyarados|
|393||Scarf Max Speed Metagross|
|394||Max Speed Aerodactyl, Max Speed Jolteon|
|403||+1 Fast Kingdra, Scarf Fast Heracross|
|406||Scarf Fast Rotom-A|
|426||Scarf Max Speed Dragonite, +1 Max Speed Dragonite, Scarf Max Speed Blaziken|
|433||Scarf Fast Electivire, +1 Fast Yanmega|
|442||+1 Max Speed Heracross|
|447||Scarf Max Speed Rotom-A|
|448||Scarf Fast Celebi, Scarf Fast Staraptor|
|492||Scarf Max Speed Jirachi, Scarf Max Speed Staraptor|
|538||Rain Boosted Fast Kingdra|
|578||+2 Fast Gliscor|
|116||Bulky Kecleon, Bulky Rhydon|
|136||Bulky Registeel, Bulky Regice, Bulky Regirock, Bulky Hariyama|
|146||Bulky Blissey, Bulky Ursaring, Bulky Machamp, Bulky Swalot|
|156||Bulky Swampert, Bulky Porygon2|
|176||Bulky Metagross, Bulky Ludicolo, Bulky Skarmory|
|179||Fast Shedinja, Bulky Poliwrath|
|189||Fast Marowak, Fast Armaldo|
|196||Bulky Medicham, Bulky Dragonite, Bulky Grumpig|
|198||Fast Gyarados, Bulky Milotic|
|206||Bulky Kingdra, Bulky Illumise|
|209||Fast Ursaring, Fast Machamp|
|229||Fast Vaporeon, Fast Walrein|
|236||Bulky Salamence, Bulky Celebi, Bulky Charizard, Bulky Jirachi, Bulky Typhlosion, Bulky Flygon|
|237||+1 Bulky Tyranitar|
|243||Max Speed Tyranitar|
|251||Max Speed Walrein|
|256||Bulky Tauros, Bulky Gengar|
|259||Fast Venusaur, Fast Blaziken, Fast Medicham, Fast Dragonite, Fast Grumpig|
|262||Max Speed Metagross|
|269||Fast Heracross, Fast Kingdra, Fast Articuno|
|284||Max Speed Venusaur, Max Speed Blaziken|
|295||Max Speed Heracross|
|299||Fast Salamence, Fast Celebi, Fast Entei, Fast Jirachi, Fast Typhlosion, Fast Flygon|
|306||Max Speed Moltres|
|317||Max Speed Houndoom|
|319||Fast Tauros, Fast Gengar, Fast Dodrio|
|328||Max Speed Salamence, Max Speed Celebi, Max Speed Charizard, Max Speed Entei, Max Speed Jirachi, Max Speed Typhlosion|
|329||Fast Raikou, Fast Starmie|
|331||+1 Fast Tyranitar|
|339||Fast Sceptile, Fast Alakazam, Max Speed Scyther|
|350||Max Speed Tauros, Max Speed Gengar, Max Speed Dodrio|
|352||Rain Boosted Bulky Ludicolo|
|354||+1 Bulky Salamence|
|361||Max Speed Raikou, Max Speed Starmie|
|364||+1 Max Speed Tyranitar|
|372||Max Speed Sceptile, Max Speed Alakazam|
|388||+1 Fast Blaziken|
|391||+1 Fast Gyarados|
|394||Max Speed Aerodactyl, Max Speed Jolteon, Max Speed Crobat|
|403||+1 Fast Heracross, +1 Fast Kingdra|
|412||Rain Boosted Bulky Kingdra|
|448||+1 Fast Salamence, +1 Fast Typhlosion|
|538||Rain Boosted Fast Kingdra|
On paper its pretty annoying but theres no lack of steels or whatever to beat this mon, and Jirachi being the best mon in the tier does it no favors. It has not shown itself to be broken in bw 1v1 in classic (loses to other shit like cress too, band or whatever has so much opportunity cost) and additionally absolutely nobody that had i think wco1v1 bw success wanted to ban it. I dont want a ban off the table but i really think this is you (who hasnt played bw 1v1 in tour at all) speculating. Much more broken mon on paper than in practice.suggest ban for kyu b in bw 1v1 ... This shit is litterally broken especially that fairy didnt exist in gen 5 ... so it breaks all the meta. I must take scarf haxorus to beat it ( and again it can tank if it is ev'd in def).
In fact Kyurem can destroy all the meta, it depends if it is scarf or band, or weakness policy...
Sorry but a 700 bs mon with mold breaker and a devastating attack base (which can be mixed with spe atck) is literally insane.
I ask for a ban.
Weakness policy does not exist in gen 5, lol. I'm saying you haven't played in stuff like BW cup but either way roomtours suck. WP literally doesn't exist in BW and this kinda proves my point about you not playing enough.yeah i agree that jirachi is broken too... but don't forget that weakness policy kyurem earth power beat jirachi, and the problem is that only a minority beats Kyurem.
The thing i don't understand is : why kyurem is banned in gen 7 with all fairys, and is not banned in gen 5 whereas it is more broken in gen 5 than gen 7 cause fairy didnt exist...
Why you said i didnt play bw 1v1? i always play 1v1 bw in official, and i can affirm that three quarters of my loss are due to kyurem.
Honestly, it's not a super good set.Not only is its Choice Scarf that good, though it is
This is a complete non-existant set. Have not seen it in classic at all. Not to mention it's not reliable to beat something like tran who can dodge a Focus Miss.but its other sets are way better at handling its threat, with specially defensive Specs taking care of PZ, Genesect, Heatran, and other such Scarf-countering Special attackers
252 Atk Garchomp Outrage vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kyurem-Black: 390-462 (99.7 - 118.1%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKOand physically defensive CBand countering Scarf-countering physical attackers like Scarf Chomp, Cresselia amongst others.. And there's the ever-present Scarf for the Speed factor. (Of course specially defensive Band, and physically defensive Band sets are also good, but that would make this post too much work; I'll drop some calculations just to show its tanking capabilities...)
Well first off I agree DPP 1v1 is a lot of fun. I also fully agree torterra is really good. As for raikou, Dom nommed it to a- a while ago and we never objected so ig dom forgot to put it in. Torterra was nommed for c but tbh I feel like it's better than c. I'll bring it up to the VR team. I also agree Suicune is so good. I think it could be an s rank mon. I'll bring it up also. I'll also bring up ranking Feraligatr. However, I disagree about cress and rhyperior not being worthy of s rank. Cress is insanely bulky and there aren't very many viable mons (mainly bug/dark/ghost/swords dance/metal sound) that can beat it. Rhyperior has a super high attack stat + 150 bp attack + swords dance + solid rock. It's pretty def bulky and can just endure vs special atttacks. It beats a lot of the meta and is really good. Keep in mind that just because a mon has one set that doesn't mean it's bad. Lastly, I see your point about jirachi, but I'd like to say that special attacker jirachi is also viable, as well as cosmic power wish/rest. Now even with that said, I still agree with moving it down from a+. Thank you for taking the time to discuss the VR. :)High off my win this week, and (in my opinion) having a pretty good grasp on DPP 1v1 after following it, building for it, and playing it for a few months now, I figured I'd give some input.
First of all, some placements. I think Rhyperior and especially Cressellia are extremely overrated. Yeah, they're both still very good, and definitely require some very intricate counterplay, but the issue I have with them is that they are extremely easy to beat in the teambuilder with very little extra effort required. I think we can an all agree that both have one definite best set: SD Endure Custap for Rhyperior and Reflect CM for Cresselia. They're both good and beat a good deal of Pokemon. But again, they are extremely predictable and easy to tech for, and their other sets are about five times worse. Sure, you will catch something offguard with CB Rhyperior or TrickSpecs/Scarf once in a while, but that is hardly reliable, especially not with how common Mail is becoming. Compare that to the (in my opinion) best Pokemon in the tier, Suicune. Very good "main set", and even stuff that beats it "in the builder" is very prone to losing to techs, with SpDef and Wacan + Mirror Coat Suicune seeing use to beat Electrics. I think Suicune is the objective best because it can tailor itself to support the rest of your team instead of being stuck in one role a la Cress/Rhyp, and it can be tailor made to beat/lure pretty much anything.
Apart from that, there are some curious omissions: Torterra (probably the single best TTar/Rhyp check in the tier with some other obvious applications, such as beating CB DNite), Feraligatr (Literally beats the entirety of S and A+ minus Rotom and some strange TTar/Rachi sets, but they have to be quite specific), Raikou (How the fuck is Ampharos on there but not the mon that beats anything fat by itself and the one Electric that can halfway reliably beat ALL cune sets? Surely dumbass counter can't be that good). I also think Heracross and Hariyama should be a LOT higher given Machamps placement. I know that people love relying on luck a lot which I will get to in my next point, but Hariyama and Machamp are functionally very similar. One can luck slower mons and beats Gyarados, one beats CB Dragonite and Heatran. Heracross is a fighter with an extremely easy time against Suicune and Cresselia, and that also beats Grass types reliably, but loses to Rotom bar CB Night Slash vs Non Specs Overheat. There's definitely not this many subranks between these.
Lastly, the (to me) elephant in the room. Jirachi. This thing SUCKS. Now, I don't know if people just figure it's good here because it got banned in SM, but wow, this thing is fucking awful. First of all, the competition it has with Bronzong. There's exactly 2 things Scarf Rachi beats reliably that CB Zong doesn't (note the term reliably): Dragonite and Gyarados, and you need a fuckload of bulk to eat CB Gyaras EQ because TPunch definitely doesn't OHKO. That's pretty much the end of the list, but it's two relatively minor Pokemon given that they both have 1.5 sets and a readily abusable 4x weakness each. Why did I use the term reliably? Because, against half the tier, yes, technically you can win, but it requires a TON of flinches in most cases. Let's take a look at the upper ranks If it gets up Reflect you're up shit creek without a paddle. This is actually one of Jirachi's easier matchups just because Cresselia can't hurt you, meaning you probably get the full 24 PP. If you run out and Cresselia is alive, you lose. Trick can work, but Mail is getting quite common.
Rhyperior: Loss unless you use the bulkiest Jirachi in the world and flinch twice. You can tech GK, but given the fact that Rhyperior loses little from using Endure T1, that's a poor solution.
Infernape: Bulky Scarf ZH beats all non bulky Infernape reliably, but ZH is hard to fit on. Very likely loss without Zen.
Rotom: Extremely likely to lose to the best Rotom set (Bulky Specs Rotom-H). Needs too many flinches and Overheat cooks you. Other formes 2HKO with TBolt. Actually favored against Scarfed because TBolt doesnt 2hko and Scarf is really frail, but Scarf Rotom is also really bad.
Suicune: Trick beats non Mail, otherwise you need a crit with TPunch before you run out of PP, which isn't in your favor with Pressure. Mail is one of the only two items Suicune should carry, and dropping TP is an instant loss bar ZH luck.
Tyranitar: Actually not as much in Jirachi's favor as you'd think. 60% to flinch, and should you not, CB EQ OHKOs you. Beats non CB EQ/Counter TTar reliably.
Blissey: Counter OHKOs you and, again, Trick is a big gamble with the prevalence of Mail. Needs at least 2, if not 3 flinches (36 and 20% respectively.)
Celebi: Very reliant on the Celebi set. If you run Bulky Scarf, Scarf Celebi will probably outspeed you, but Scarf EP is quite rare. Needs 2 out of 3 flinches against bulky Specs which is certainly in Jirachis favor but hardly reliable.
Dragonite: Jirachi should win this every time.
Gengar: Jirachi should win this every time bar Scarf Gengar getting extremely lucky.
Metagross: Very unlikely for Jirachi to win, Gross is way too strong and bulky. EQ 2HKOs and CB can OHKO. Legitimately needs like 6 flinches.
Snorlax: Trick is risky because CB Lax is gonna smash you, and if you don't flinch Curse then it'll give you a hard time as well. I wanna say Jirachi is favored, but it definitely isn't a lot.
Zapdos: Bulky Specs is going to send you to hell with Heat Wave. IHead needs way too many flinches. If you can somehow EV for Heat Wave while 2HKOing with Ice Punch then you are approaching "safe" territory. Still sounds like a bad investment.
And keep in mind that this was only the top 3 ranks and Jirachi still barely has any good matchups that don't involve massive luck. Further down we get stuff like Swampert (resists IH with no good weakness to hit and has STAB EQ), Slaking (252+ needs 3 flinches every time and CB EQ OHKOs regardless of bulk), Torterra (lives IP and OHKOs with CB EQ), and a ton more. It just makes no sense to me. Of course, this only talks about ScarfRachi, but that is by far its most common set. You can run some weird lure sets, but why? Bronzong is a lot better at this unless you really need the speed because it can choose its matchups with two amazing abilities compared to (in a lure context) bad Serene Grace. Please move this trash down.
That's all for now! If you have any questions about anything I said, please let me know! DPP OU may be godawful, but I think DPP 1v1 is a lot of fun!
I'm fine with Cresselia and Rhyperior in S. I do think they're super good and super usable, but I also think being predictable is usually something you want to avoid. That's less of a thing against those two and more of a thing in Suicune's favor, though, so if we can move Cune up with them I'm a-ok with this!Well first off I agree DPP 1v1 is a lot of fun. I also fully agree torterra is really good. As for raikou, Dom nommed it to a- a while ago and we never objected so ig dom forgot to put it in. Torterra was nommed for c but tbh I feel like it's better than c. I'll bring it up to the VR team. I also agree Suicune is so good. I think it could be an s rank mon. I'll bring it up also. I'll also bring up ranking Feraligatr. However, I disagree about cress and rhyperior not being worthy of s rank. Cress is insanely bulky and there aren't very many viable mons (mainly bug/dark/ghost/swords dance/metal sound) that can beat it. Rhyperior has a super high attack stat + 150 bp attack + swords dance + solid rock. It's pretty def bulky and can just endure vs special atttacks. It beats a lot of the meta and is really good. Keep in mind that just because a mon has one set that doesn't mean it's bad. Lastly, I see your point about jirachi, but I'd like to say that special attacker jirachi is also viable, as well as cosmic power wish/rest. Now even with that said, I still agree with moving it down from a+. Thank you for taking the time to discuss the VR. :)
I think its here
can you like, actually make a definitive claim or statement of any sort? you ramble a ton about possible changes of the vr but if you want the vr to change you should nominate pokemon to move. that's how VRs work. nominate a pokemon to a rank and explain why, specifically.After 1v1PL, I feel like I have a great grasp on the current BW 1v1 metagame and feel like I could drop my 2 cents in on how I feel about the current including some VR nominations.
In my opinion, Whimsicott is the best pokemon in BW 1v1 with the ability to leech seed just about any Pokemon barring Grass types and Magic Bounce Users. Some of Whimsicott's best "counters" can be stopped with a certain weakness berry like Occa and Yache. Honestly could see this thing going to S rank since its such a nuisance to many of my builds and many others as well. Other top pokemon like Kyurem Black and Porygon-Z are still great in the meta and have enough viable checks/counters to be not be broken or anything of the sort. Victini is criminally underrated with Banded V-create and Fusion Bolt being such a great combination. Also, Conkeldurr isnt ranked at all lol but it is the bulkiest Fighting type in the tier and with its monstrous 140 attack it can viably run sets like Fighting Gem or Choice Band with little to no precautions. I feel Pokemon like Reuniclus and Jellicent should be used much more to have such a high ranking on VR even if they are great Pokemon in the meta imo. I also feel like Landorus-Therian and Alakazam could drop a rank or two since these pokemon arent the greatest in the current meta with pokemon like Kyurem Black, Meloetta, and Genesect all running around right now. Suicune could also use a rise with sets like Sub+Protect or Sub+Calm Mind giving slower teams alot of trouble if they don't prepare for it. I can also say the same thing for Meloetta, the Pokemon is so bulky and can live about any hit (even Super Effective attacks from Powerful Pokemon like Specs Volcarona) and return a powerful attack like Specs Hyper Beam or Psychic. In my opinion, this entire VR needs to be renovated because its out of touch with the current meta which, i wouldnt mind doing.
pluff is fine for now, whims is a+.BW Whimsicott A --> A+/S
BW Jumpluff A --> A-
Whimsicott is nasty. Basically the best seedstaller in the game. Access to prankster taunt, before pranskter was nerfed. Trick isn't a real counterplay option, as Whimsicott can protect and sub common choice scarf users, a luxury Jumpluff does not share. Mega Evolutions and z moves aren't a thing, meaning that power creep is low enough to allow whimsicott to be able live at least one attack. Fairy type also isn't a thing, meaning that that Poison isn't as bad of a problem, allowing it to bop garchomp. The lack of Z moves in particular have nerfed flying types, and unless you have been rewarded with the coveted brave bird, the moves youll have to rely on are Hurricane and fly. ech. Also has access to Grasswhistle and can beat Pokemon it really shouldn’t like Choice Band Kyub,Choice Band Metagross, and Choiced Victini by fishing for confusion, fishing for misses, or getting a double protect and pp stalling 8 PP moves. In conclusion, its not beaten by Taunt, Substitute, Trick, opposing recover moves, most super effective moves, Dark-types, or sound based moves. Got both rank 1 and 2 with one whimsicott centric team
Meanwhile, we have Jumpluff. The only advantage it has is high speed sleep. Which, in this metagame not centered around bulky offense, instead around stall or hyper offense, really isn't an advantage to a mon like Whimsicott, that can already beat stall and live moves from hyper offense. Jumpluff also does not have access to either Taunt or Prankster, with a nerfed/unbuffed Infiltrator ability making it now beaten by not only taunt users but also sub users. Jumpluff also maintains the 4x weakness it currently has in the current meta, making it susceptible to both Scarf Kyub and Jirachi, which Whimsicott beats both. It also will be beaten by Trick Choice Scarf users, which Whimsicott doesn't need to care about. Looking down VR, i see no mon that Jumpluff would be better for than whimsicott, besides some very hard hitter like Choice Band Kyub and Choice Band Metagross.
Jumpluff is like the gen 7 Golem to Whimsicott's Donphan.