Metagame 2v2 Doubles

Mubs

All in good time.
is a Social Media Contributoris a Community Contributor
Kaif has been added to the VR Council. Congratulations!

Also, on the topic of the VR, its about time we talk about something that's become quite necessary at this point: reforming our lower ranks.

>>Tier 3<<
:Aegislash: Aegislash
:Arcanine: Arcanine
:Azumarill: Azumarill
:Blastoise: Blastoise
:Clefairy: Clefairy
:Darmanitan: Darmanitan
:Darmanitan-Galar: Darmanitan-Galar
:Ferrothorn: Ferrothorn
:Goodra: Goodra
:Hawlucha: Hawlucha
:Kommo-o: Kommo-o
:Mantine: Mantine
:Passimian: Passimian
:Snorlax: Snorlax
:Volcarona: Volcarona
:Weezing-Galar: Weezing-Galar

>>Tier 4<<
:Bisharp: Bisharp
:Braviary: Braviary
:Bronzong: Bronzong
:Charizard: Charizard
:Dragapult: Dragapult
:Dusclops: Dusclops
:Gastrodon: Gastrodon
:Grimmsnarl: Grimmsnarl
:Gyarados: Gyarados
:Hitmontop: Hitmontop
:Hydreigon: Hydreigon
:Indeedee: Indeedee
:Milotic: Milotic
:Ninetales: Ninetales
:Pincurchin: Pincurchin
:Raichu-Alola: Raichu-Alola
:Rhyperior: Rhyperior
:Rotom-Heat: Rotom-Heat
:Sawk: Sawk
:Scizor: Scizor
:Scrafty: Scrafty
:Sylveon: Sylveon


>>Tier 5<<
:Accelgor: Accelgor
:Chandelure: Chandelure
:Conkeldurr: Conkeldurr
:Dracozolt: Dracozolt
:drapion: Drapion
:Durant: Durant
:Gardevoir: Gardevoir
:Gigalith: Gigalith
:Haxorus: Haxorus
:Krookodile: Krookodile
:Keldeo: Keldeo
:Kyurem: Kyurem
:Ludicolo: Ludicolo
:Magnezone: Magnezone
:Malamar: Malamar
:Mr Mime: Mr Mime
:Porygon-Z: Porygon-Z
:Raichu: Raichu
:Rotom-Mow: Rotom-Mow
:stoutland: Stoutland
:Sirfetchd: Sirfetch'd
:Tangrowth: Tangrowth
:Terrakion: Terrakion
:Toxtricity: Toxtricity

Discussion in both the room and discord has lead me to believe that we need to set a higher standard for a Pokemon to be ranked. Some of these Pokemon, while they have niches, they aren't really fitting the definitions of the tiers they currently reside and their presence in those tiers make people hesitant to nom Pokemon down. For example, Mantine isn't exactly on the level of Snorlax, Volcarona, and Galarian Weezing. Is it worth dropping it to the tier of Bisharp and Bronzong, which are nigh-universally agreed to be on quite a lower level to it? Should Bisharp and Bronzong even be Tier 4 in the first place? Please share your thoughts.

As always, thanks for reading and have a nice day. Mubs out.
 
It's a choice we have to make, the choice of absolute vs relative rankings. Mantine does function well on manual rain teams (with dracovish as a backup), and therefore deserves tier 3, even enough it might be worse than other pokemon also deserving of that category. If we choose absolute rankings, we therefore rank it in T3, if we chose relative ranking we rank it T4.

If we chose absolute rankings, it's easy: as long as we have very clear guidelines for each tier, and as long as we actually follow these it should be very obvious which mons are to be ranked and which mons not. The only issue is that the current T5 definition is "Pokemon that, while they have a niche in the metagame, often struggle to find situations where they thrive, either because of the support required or their poor matchups.", which is bad because almost every pokemon has some sort of a niche.
Regardless, if we do make that choice, then arguments such as "Mantine isn't as good as the other pokemon in the tier" simply don't apply.

If we choose to go for relative rankings, then tier descriptions become completely obsolete, then the only definition of a tier is that all pokemon in a certain tier must be significantly better than all pokemon in lower tiers, and significantly worse than pokemon in higher tiers.
 

Mubs

All in good time.
is a Social Media Contributoris a Community Contributor
The primary reason the notion of switching from tiers from ranks was implemented was because of the problem that we had of getting VR shifts up. Our system was based of the current one 1v1 has (which to the non 1v1 people watching are the Viability Ranking sheets). The main problem with using that system is that it got to a point that consistently updating both the sheet and the OP wasn't possible (partially due to my inability to get on smogon at times, and many of the members at the time not updating their votes every week). When the idea of switching to DOU's system was raised in chat, I was in favor of it due to it due to our status as a doubles metagame and the inefficiency of the past system; I wanted to give a nomination-based slate system a try.

I do believe that such a system is working out better than what we had before, and what Vrji has mentioned probably is the main problem we face. Should we base our tiers off of relative or absolute? Should we add more tiers, or just go back to the A+, A- A system? I'm unsure so far, though I am willing to give going back to the alphabetic system.

Anyway, thanks for reading and have a nice day.
 
The primary reason the notion of switching from tiers from ranks was implemented was because of the problem that we had of getting VR shifts up. Our system was based of the current one 1v1 has (which to the non 1v1 people watching are the Viability Ranking sheets). The main problem with using that system is that it got to a point that consistently updating both the sheet and the OP wasn't possible (partially due to my inability to get on smogon at times, and many of the members at the time not updating their votes every week). When the idea of switching to DOU's system was raised in chat, I was in favor of it due to it due to our status as a doubles metagame and the inefficiency of the past system; I wanted to give a nomination-based slate system a try.

I do believe that such a system is working out better than what we had before, and what Vrji has mentioned probably is the main problem we face. Should we base our tiers off of relative or absolute? Should we add more tiers, or just go back to the A+, A- A system? I'm unsure so far, though I am willing to give going back to the alphabetic system.

Anyway, thanks for reading and have a nice day.
Just don’t have inactive council members?
 
I personally usually prefer relative rankings when building (which is what vr are for, after all), as they give a more general overview of what to watch out for. I care less is a pokemon fulfills a certain description than that it's better than what my current core beats and requires a dedicated check on the team.
As I already said, there is literally no difference between using Letters and Numbers, I would personally prefer letters as I'm more used to working with them from 1v1 and usage based singles, but that's subjective and unimportant.
 

D2TheW

CAP 28 Playtest Winner
Right so I figured I'd chime in on this discussion with my own perspective.

Personally, I favour the absolute ranking system utilizing the current tiers that we have right now. Unlike other tiers, a relative tiering system doesn't make sense for 2v2 as whether or not one mon is "better" than another (ie deserving to be ranked higher) is often pretty nebulous in this meta.

For example Kingdra is an absolute nuclear threat under rain. When under rain and especially with helping hand support from Politoed, it can dish out absolutely absurd damage with an almost unmatched speed tier. However this comes with the obvious caveat that kingdra must be in rain to accomplish this, being practically useless outside of rain teams bar some gimmick sniper sets or fringe use as an anti rain mon. Kingdra essentially requires using two slots on your team to make it worth bringing.

As a comparison we have Cinderace, another powerful offensive threat. With broke af ability libero, a bevy of good coverage and good attack and speed, Cinderace is able to threaten a wide array of targets and fit on many teams.

I don't think it's controversial however, to say that, in terms of sheer offensive power, Kingdra is a bigger threat than Cinderace. However the former only works on one specific team style while the other is far more varied in this regard.

So, in a relative tiering system, such as the one used by 1v1 to take an example already mentioned in the thread, which one would be ranked higher? I don't think there's a clear answer to this question. In 6v6 tiers, weather abusers such as Kingdra usually get very middling ranks, but weather teams in most 6v6 tiers are usually inconsistent, viewed more as gimmicks that fish for mus. In 2v2 however, weather teams (and other similar teamstyles like terrain spam) are legitimate threats that should be taken into account when building, especially in the current meta. The current system, using absolute tiers, fits this in easily with a dedicated tier for mons like Kingdra that only work on rain, sun, psyterrain etc. This is why I think we should stick with absolute tiers and frankly, I have yet to see any strong arguments to change our tiering system other than people voicing personal preference for a system they're more familiar with.

That being said, the lower tiers are in a bit of a state RN and I haven't hit the max word count just yet so I'm going to run through the lower tiers and make nominations for each of them.

T3-
:Aegislash: Aegislash - 4 I covered this one in my last post, go read that. TL;DR pretty poor meta mus but unique typing and ability means it still has a place in the meta.
:Arcanine: Arcanine - 4 man I'm really conflicted about this one. Purely in a vacuum, Arc is more than deserving of t3 but Incin is a hell of a thing to be outclassed by. There's definitely times where I wish Incin wasn't fighting weak and reliable recovery is a hell of a boon but tbh the number of teams I'd use this on over the cat is pretty low.
:Azumarill: Azumarill - 3 Competition from prim as a water fairy but it's a strong af physical attacker with good mus against all of the intimidate users with nice bulk to back it up especially with vest.
:Blastoise: Blastoise - 3 great support in fake out + follow me, good bulk, nice defensive typing and the ability to run a shell smash set to boot. Good mon, Indeedees ability to redirect while blocking fake out entirely is kinda just better but definitely usable.
:Clefairy: Clefairy - 3 clef ho is in baby. I could definitely live with this being in 4 but follow me is always good and friend guard is damn useful too. As one of the few redirectors with recovery it definitely has a place in the meta and I think it fits t3 fine.
:Darmanitan: Darmanitan - 3 incredibly strong physical attacker with good coverage that struggles vs fake out and redirection. Awkward speed tier too, but properly facilitated it's hard to counter.
:Darmanitan-Galar: Darmanitan-Galar - 3 ^ literally the exact same but even more polarised.
:Ferrothorn: Ferrothorn - 4 curse ferro can just win games and it's a great stop to rain teams. Can be very difficult to break without a fire or fighting type but those are in plentiful supply.
:Goodra: Goodra - 3 great answer to both rain and sun, good offensive special tank, just a solid mon.
:Hawlucha: Hawlucha - 2.5 Lucha is a hell of a threat but is basically only used on terrain teams. However it is one of the main factors in making terrain teams threatening so I think it definitely belongs in 2.5
:Kommo-o: Kommo-o - 4 Pretty similar to Goodra in a lot of ways but honestly, it's pretty outclassed by it's psuedo legendary brother. Still solid, just doesn't have the meta mus it used to.
:Mantine: Mantine - 4 This mon has never belonged in t3 and I don't understand how it got here. Utterly outclassed as a swift swim mon, it is at least a decent special tank with a nice typing and reliable recovery.
:Passimian: Passimian - 5 Very outclassed by Mienshao, only niche is a bulkier set utilizing Vest. It can at least kill Incin through chople thanks to defiant (bulk dependant) and I could definitely see this being unranked at a later date but 5 is fine for now.
:Snorlax: Snorlax - 3 I've outlined my thoughts on this enough times, I still think it can hold its own in 2 but 3 is fine.
:Volcarona: Volcarona - 3 potent offensive threat and good redirector letting it fulfill two roles in one. Nice mon, irritated by lots of fire type competition.
:Weezing-Galar: Weezing-Galar - 3 Solid defensive mon with decent offensive tools and a choice of two good abilities depending on your needs. Ngas is hella strong but only fits certain teams.

T4
:Bisharp: Bisharp - UR talked about this mon when it was originally nommed. To be blunt, it's dogshit. Go read the other post for more detail.
:Braviary: Braviary - 5 This mon kinda sucks since it's never killing chople incin and it's typing is just kind of meh
:Bronzong: Bronzong - 5 the more I think about this one the more meh it is. It is at least usable and there are legitimate reasons to put it on a team but it's resoundingly mediocre
:Charizard: Charizard - 5 Nuclear under sun, better abusers exist tho
:Dragapult: Dragapult - 4 fits t4 fine, able to hit physically or specially or go support with dual screens. Nice mon.
:Dusclops: Dusclops - 4 good TR setter with some nice tricks to support it's offensive threat further
:Gastrodon: Gastrodon - 4 decent meta mus, hard to kill and checks some nice stuff like Incin and zera. Maybe outclassed as a water but ground typing is pretty useful. Solid
:Grimmsnarl: Grimmsnarl - 4 see other post
:Gyarados: Gyarados - 5 No discernable niche, generally meh, intimidate is still useful and it's mu spread is kind of interesting so 5 is fine.
:Hitmontop: Hitmontop - 5 Top is worse Scrafty is worse Incineroar. Pretty poor stats and it's also outclassed by Mienshao for good measure.
:Hydreigon: Hydreigon - 5 low-key underated but it's got no real niche and a lot of dragon and dark type competition
:Indeedee: Indeedee - 5 Very few scenarios where I'd use this over it's sister
:Milotic: Milotic - 4 Insanely specially bulky, good at dissuading Incin, decently strong even without competitive boosts
:Ninetales: Ninetales - 4 very few reasons to use this over Tork but Mish had used it to good effect so 4 is fine
:Pincurchin: Pincurchin - 4 Eterrain is incredibly strong if not properly prepped for, very good at catching oppos off guard
:Raichu-Alola: Raichu-Alola - 4 ^
:Rhyperior: Rhyperior - 4 Strong ass TR Mon especially since it's easy to proc weakness policy
:Rotom-Heat: Rotom-Heat - Like washtom this has no defined niche but a solid group if traits that make a decent mon with a lot of competition. Ranking it the same as it's brother.
:Sawk: Sawk - Ur Unrank this already it hurts ;w;
:Scizor: Scizor - 4 covered in another post
:Scrafty: Scrafty - 4 covered in another post
:Sylveon: Sylveon - 4 hyper voice go brrr, most steels kinda suck RN and sylv exploits that. Fire types are a pain but the most popular one isn't a resist.

T5
:Accelgor: Accelgor - 5 Final gambit really is good, shame everything else about this mon sucks
:Chandelure: Chandelure - 5 covered in another post
:Conkeldurr: Conkeldurr - 5 covered in another post
:Dracozolt: Dracozolt - Ur Zera is better as an electric, there's a myriad of better dragons
:drapion: Drapion - 5 covered in another post
:Durant: Durant - Ur this Mon sucks, change my mind
:Gardevoir: Gardevoir - 5 covered in another post
:Gigalith: Gigalith - Ur no real niche over ttar or even Hippo. Just pretty bad
:Haxorus: Haxorus - Ur Why would I ever use this
:Krookodile: Krookodile - 5 I still think this has some potential and I've tinkered with it but I could see it dropping to UR
:Keldeo: Keldeo - UR I put this in 5 last time but honestly I don't think it's good enough. If it stays in 5, fine but honestly prim/watershifu outclass it
:Kyurem: Kyurem - 5 lots of dragon competition, not bad tho, an ice type that doesn't auto lose to Incin is nice
:Ludicolo: Ludicolo - 5 I still think this mon is neat and underprepped for but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
:Magnezone: Magnezone - 5 on the fence about this one cos it's got some nice traits but I can defo see this being unranked in the future
:Malamar: Malamar - Ur This mon sucks, like actually. Very few reasons to use it bar gimmicks.
:Mr Mime: Mr Mime - 5 Generally outclassed by Indeedee/Blastoise, will still put in work cos fake out + redirection is just good
:Porygon-Z: Porygon-Z - 5 One time kill button, needs a lot of support
:Raichu: Raichu - Ur this things days are long over, pretty sure it's only here cos we forgot about it
:Rotom-Mow: Rotom-Mow - Ur Why would you use this?
:stoutland: Stoutland - Ur Covered this in another post but this mon is still absolutely awful and the fact that's on the VR makes me so sad.
:Sirfetchd: Sirfetch'd - Ur lots of fighting type competition, usable but meh
:Tangrowth: Tangrowth - 5 redirector, outclassed in most cases by Amoongus but it's still decent.
:Terrakion: Terrakion - 5 covered in another post
:Toxtricity: Toxtricity - Ur This mon is just kinda bad lol, rip Partman's sample

Those are all noms btw mubs, have fun with the sheet :psysly:. In conclusion, keep the tiering system, cull the lower tiers

Now stop posting shitty one liners, cheers
 
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Let's try that one again :)

So, I know council is going through the process of revamping the VR, but I have a sample team to renom, so here goes nothing :stufful:
Also, I want new people to be able to spam Cinderace get a feel for how Cinderace operates, and rn, there's no Cinderace sample :(

The team is called Cinderace Balanced Offense, and looks like this: :Incineroar: :Cinderace: :Goodra: :Rillaboom:

Incineroar @ Chople Berry
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 236 HP / 148 Atk / 36 Def / 88 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Flare Blitz
- Knock Off
- Protect

Cinderace @ Life Orb
Ability: Libero
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Protect
- Pyro Ball
- Sucker Punch
- High Jump Kick

Goodra @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 224 HP / 16 Def / 144 SpA / 124 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Thunderbolt
- Protect

Rillaboom @ Assault Vest
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 108 Atk / 32 Def / 60 SpD / 56 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Grassy Glide
- Wood Hammer
- High Horsepower

Q: Does this team lose to Psyspam? :indeedee: :alakazam:
s/o to turtalkatthing for testing psyspam with me :jellicent: (please excuse the Ninetales, I was working on an old version of the team)

Q: What's your rain answer? :POLITOED: :KINGDRA::mantine:
A: AV Rillaboom can take what ever is thrown at it and 2HKO with glide. :GOODRA: :Rillaboom:
252+ SpA Life Orb Kingdra Draco Meteor vs. 224 HP / 0 SpD Goodra: 346-408 (91.7 - 108.2%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

+2 144+ SpA Goodra Draco Meteor vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Kingdra: 794-936 (271.9 - 320.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Life Orb Mantine Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 112 SpD Assault Vest Rillaboom: 283-338 (82.9 - 99.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery

108+ Atk Rillaboom Grassy Glide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mantine in Grassy Terrain: 192-226 (61.7 - 72.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Life Orb Kingdra Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 112 SpD Assault Vest Rillaboom: 213-252 (62.4 - 73.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery

Conclusion: S/o to Vrji for absolutely roasting my previous submission :STUFFUL:
 
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>Non choiced vish is quite rare
I don't know which rock you're been living under but LO vish is the standard, also tflame vish can just double protect with no consequence against your team.

I don't really see why it needs to be a sun team, just because it has 1.5 fire types, maybe if you replace Ninetales (which you yourself qualified as useless) with a bulky grass type like AV Rilla the team might be better.
 
>Non choiced vish is quite rare
I don't know which rock you're been living under but LO vish is the standard, also tflame vish can just double protect with no consequence against your team.

I don't really see why it needs to be a sun team, just because it has 1.5 fire types, maybe if you replace Ninetales (which you yourself qualified as useless) with a bulky grass type like AV Rilla the team might be better.
I'll take a look at that! Ty for pointing that out <3
 
Let's try that one again :)

So, I know council is going through the process of revamping the VR, but I have a sample team to renom, so here goes nothing :stufful:
Also, I want new people to be able to spam Cinderace get a feel for how Cinderace operates, and rn, there's no Cinderace sample :(

The team is called Cinderace Balanced Offense, and looks like this: :Incineroar: :Cinderace: :Goodra: :Rillaboom:

Incineroar @ Chople Berry
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 236 HP / 148 Atk / 36 Def / 88 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Flare Blitz
- Knock Off
- Protect

Cinderace @ Life Orb
Ability: Libero
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Protect
- Pyro Ball
- Sucker Punch
- High Jump Kick

Goodra @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 224 HP / 16 Def / 144 SpA / 124 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Thunderbolt
- Protect

Rillaboom @ Assault Vest
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 108 Atk / 32 Def / 60 SpD / 56 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Grassy Glide
- Wood Hammer
- High Horsepower

Q: Does this team lose to Psyspam? :indeedee: :alakazam:
s/o to turtalkatthing for testing psyspam with me :jellicent: (please excuse the Ninetales, I was working on an old version of the team)

Q: What's your rain answer? :POLITOED: :KINGDRA::mantine:
A: AV Rillaboom can take what ever is thrown at it and 2HKO with glide. :GOODRA: :Rillaboom:
252+ SpA Life Orb Kingdra Draco Meteor vs. 224 HP / 0 SpD Goodra: 346-408 (91.7 - 108.2%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

+2 144+ SpA Goodra Draco Meteor vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Kingdra: 794-936 (271.9 - 320.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Life Orb Mantine Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 112 SpD Assault Vest Rillaboom: 283-338 (82.9 - 99.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery

108+ Atk Rillaboom Grassy Glide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mantine in Grassy Terrain: 192-226 (61.7 - 72.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Life Orb Kingdra Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 112 SpD Assault Vest Rillaboom: 213-252 (62.4 - 73.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery

Conclusion: S/o to Vrji for absolutely roasting my previous submission :STUFFUL:
 

Mubs

All in good time.
is a Social Media Contributoris a Community Contributor
:Aegislash: -> 4
:Arcanine: -> 4
:Ferrothorn: -> 4
:Hawlucha: -> 2.5
:Kommo-o: -> 4
:Mantine: -> 4
:Passimian: -> 5
:Bisharp: -> UR
:Braviary: -> 5
:Bronzong: -> 5
:Charizard: -> 5
:Gyarados: -> UR
:Hitmontop: -> 5
:Hydreigon: -> 5
:Indeedee: -> 5
:Rotom-Heat: -> 5
:Dracozolt: -> UR
:Durant: -> UR
:Haxorus: -> UR
:Keldeo: -> UR
:Malamar: -> UR
:Raichu: -> UR
:Stoutland: -> UR
:Toxtricity: -> UR
:Hatterene: -> 3
:Torkoal: -> 2.5
:Sawk: -> UR
:Sylveon: -> 5
:Drapion: -> UR
:Ludicolo: -> UR
:Gigalith: -> UR
:Mr. Mime: -> UR

1600712906109.png

The 2v2 council has decided to open up discussion on suspecting Urshifu-S.

With its introduction in DLC1, Urshifu-S has become one of the most potent offensive threats in the 2v2 netagame, notably due to its great Dark / Fighting STAB combination in conjunction with its ability, Unseen Fists. Wicked Blow’s 100% crit rate essentially gives it a 120 BP STAB that is immune to Intimidate, doing a significant chunk of damage to nearly everything. You can’t position against it with Protect either; It’s ability in Unseen Fists allows all of its contact moves to bypass protection, allowing it to easily nab KOs on opposing threats. Urshifu is also notably bulky on the physical Side, making it more of a menace to handle.

Of course, Urshifu is not without its downsides. A 4x weakness to fairy-types give pokemon such as Togekiss and Primarina the ability to OHKO Urshifu if given the opportunity, while resisting both its STABs. Its Special Defense isn’t that good either, leaving it open to be KOd by the Special Attackers of the metagame. But remember, you aren’t only bringing one Pokemon onto the field. Here’s some notable partners.

:zeraora:
Zeraora is easily Urshifu’s best teammate, and for good reason; It’s the fastest Fake Out user in the metagame. This allows it to prevent notable Fairy-types such as Primarina and Togekiss from attacking Urshifu along with having a good matchup if it comes down to a 1v1. This core has dominated OM Snake, with both Urshifu and Zeraora having high Usage and Win Rates in this recent edition of OM Snake.

:Amoonguss:
Amoonguss is also a notable partner for Urshifu, being a redirector that can handle a lot of Urshifu’s problems with Spore and having a generally strong matchup versus Fairy-types as well.

What are your thoughts on Urshifu? Is it an overwhelming force in the metagame, or just a notable Pokemon that can't live a fairy attack? As always, thanks for reading and have a nice day. Mubs out.
 
I already said this in the past but I don't think Urshifu is broken at all. Weezing-G is a very underrated perfect counter to it, and solves any urshifu problems a team might have, as do most good fairy types. Additionally, colbour Indeedee-F + Literally any good special attacker (preferrably with a fairy move) completely destroy both pairings with Zeraora and Amoongus.
Urshifu is very strong, a t1 mon for sure, but I think it shares a place with pre nerf Psyspam, in being a very powerful archetype with multiple good answers that you just have to bring.
I don't think a suspect is necessary at all, people just need to get used to not being able to click protect t1 every single time.
I remember Mubs saying that blaziken was banned in Oras because "people didn't know how to deal with it at the time", let's not repeat that mistake.

what pqs said
 

Krytocon

I do things (sometimes)
:Aegislash: -> 4
:Arcanine: -> 4
:Ferrothorn: -> 4
:Hawlucha: -> 2.5
:Kommo-o: -> 4
:Mantine: -> 4
:Passimian: -> 5
:Bisharp: -> UR
:Braviary: -> 5
:Bronzong: -> 5
:Charizard: -> 5
:Gyarados: -> UR
:Hitmontop: -> 5
:Hydreigon: -> 5
:Indeedee: -> 5
:Rotom-Heat: -> 5
:Dracozolt: -> UR
:Durant: -> UR
:Haxorus: -> UR
:Keldeo: -> UR
:Malamar: -> UR
:Raichu: -> UR
:Stoutland: -> UR
:Toxtricity: -> UR
:Hatterene: -> 3
:Torkoal: -> 2.5
:Sawk: -> UR
:Sylveon: -> 5
:Drapion: -> UR
:Ludicolo: -> UR
:Gigalith: -> UR
:Mr. Mime: -> UR

View attachment 277199
The 2v2 council has decided to open up discussion on suspecting Urshifu-S.

With its introduction in DLC1, Urshifu-S has become one of the most potent offensive threats in the 2v2 netagame, notably due to its great Dark / Fighting STAB combination in conjunction with its ability, Unseen Fists. Wicked Blow’s 100% crit rate essentially gives it a 120 BP STAB that is immune to Intimidate, doing a significant chunk of damage to nearly everything. You can’t position against it with Protect either; It’s ability in Unseen Fists allows all of its contact moves to bypass protection, allowing it to easily nab KOs on opposing threats. Urshifu is also notably bulky on the physical Side, making it more of a menace to handle.

Of course, Urshifu is not without its downsides. A 4x weakness to fairy-types give pokemon such as Togekiss and Primarina the ability to OHKO Urshifu if given the opportunity, while resisting both its STABs. Its Special Defense isn’t that good either, leaving it open to be KOd by the Special Attackers of the metagame. But remember, you aren’t only bringing one Pokemon onto the field. Here’s some notable partners.

:zeraora:
Zeraora is easily Urshifu’s best teammate, and for good reason; It’s the fastest Fake Out user in the metagame. This allows it to prevent notable Fairy-types such as Primarina and Togekiss from attacking Urshifu along with having a good matchup if it comes down to a 1v1. This core has dominated OM Snake, with both Urshifu and Zeraora having high Usage and Win Rates in this recent edition of OM Snake.

:Amoonguss:
Amoonguss is also a notable partner for Urshifu, being a redirector that can handle a lot of Urshifu’s problems with Spore and having a generally strong matchup versus Fairy-types as well.

What are your thoughts on Urshifu? Is it an overwhelming force in the metagame, or just a notable Pokemon that can't live a fairy attack? As always, thanks for reading and have a nice day. Mubs out.
Personally, Urshifu is extremely extremely good. Urshifu+Zeraora nullifies any prediction from turn1 because you can just single target the biggest threat and theres nothing they can do (except maybe ally switch or be bulky enough to live 2 urshifu hits). It's STAB coverage is good enough to hit everything neutrally except fairies. It's physical defense is pretty good at 100/100 and even it's lacking special defense can be patched up by an Assault Vest if the team needs it. I think it's definitely worth a suspect as Urshifu + 2 good teammates puts an enormous amount of stress on teambuilding because yes you can bring a fairy but also Urshifu has ways to outplay that, as well as your opponent taking advantage of you being worried about Urshifu in order to bait your fairy counter out and end up not picking it. I think most of you already know my stance on Urshifu, but it really centralises teambuilding especially with it's ridiculously high usage. You definitely need a counter to the 50% usage Urshifu, whilst maybe you could chance it on losing to a 1% mon. Suspect ples
 

Mubs

All in good time.
is a Social Media Contributoris a Community Contributor
Bit late on this, but here's total OM Snake usage stats. Huge thanks to SectoniaServant for gathering them.

Code:
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Urshifu-*          |   68 |  49.28% |  51.47% |
| 2    | Zeraora            |   40 |  28.99% |  50.00% |
| 3    | Incineroar         |   29 |  21.01% |  48.28% |
| 4    | Talonflame         |   24 |  17.39% |  54.17% |
| 5    | Amoonguss          |   20 |  14.49% |  65.00% |
| 6    | Weezing-Galar      |   19 |  13.77% |  52.63% |
| 7    | Necrozma           |   18 |  13.04% |  72.22% |
| 7    | Rillaboom          |   18 |  13.04% |  61.11% |
| 9    | Primarina          |   17 |  12.32% |  52.94% |
| 9    | Cinderace          |   17 |  12.32% |  52.94% |
| 11   | Whimsicott         |   14 |  10.14% |  35.71% |
| 12   | Venusaur           |   13 |   9.42% |  53.85% |
| 12   | Excadrill          |   13 |   9.42% |  46.15% |
| 14   | Volcarona          |   12 |   8.70% |  66.67% |
| 14   | Aegislash          |   12 |   8.70% |  41.67% |
| 14   | Mew                |   12 |   8.70% |  33.33% |
| 17   | Togekiss           |   11 |   7.97% |  72.73% |
| 17   | Ninetales          |   11 |   7.97% |  45.45% |
| 19   | Sylveon            |   10 |   7.25% |  40.00% |
| 20   | Blastoise          |    9 |   6.52% |  66.67% |
| 20   | Dracovish          |    9 |   6.52% |  44.44% |
| 22   | Alakazam           |    8 |   5.80% |  50.00% |
| 23   | Indeedee-F         |    7 |   5.07% |  71.43% |
| 23   | Dragapult          |    7 |   5.07% |  57.14% |
| 23   | Mandibuzz          |    7 |   5.07% |  42.86% |
| 23   | Terrakion          |    7 |   5.07% |  42.86% |
| 27   | Chansey            |    6 |   4.35% |  50.00% |
| 27   | Kommo-o            |    6 |   4.35% |  50.00% |
| 29   | Charizard          |    5 |   3.62% |  60.00% |
| 29   | Kyurem             |    5 |   3.62% |  60.00% |
| 29   | Porygon2           |    5 |   3.62% |  40.00% |
| 29   | Tyranitar          |    5 |   3.62% |  40.00% |
| 29   | Accelgor           |    5 |   3.62% |  40.00% |
| 29   | Sableye            |    5 |   3.62% |  20.00% |
| 29   | Indeedee           |    5 |   3.62% |   0.00% |
| 36   | Corviknight        |    4 |   2.90% |  75.00% |
| 36   | Snorlax            |    4 |   2.90% |  25.00% |
| 36   | Magnezone          |    4 |   2.90% |  25.00% |
| 39   | Scizor             |    3 |   2.17% |  66.67% |
| 39   | Inteleon           |    3 |   2.17% |  66.67% |
| 39   | Gastrodon          |    3 |   2.17% |  66.67% |
| 39   | Togedemaru         |    3 |   2.17% |  33.33% |
| 39   | Gyarados           |    3 |   2.17% |  33.33% |
| 44   | Hatterene          |    2 |   1.45% | 100.00% |
| 44   | Chandelure         |    2 |   1.45% | 100.00% |
| 44   | Pincurchin         |    2 |   1.45% |  50.00% |
| 44   | Raichu-Alola       |    2 |   1.45% |  50.00% |
| 44   | Hawlucha           |    2 |   1.45% |  50.00% |
| 44   | Azumarill          |    2 |   1.45% |  50.00% |
| 44   | Milotic            |    2 |   1.45% |  50.00% |
| 44   | Ninetales-Alola    |    2 |   1.45% |  50.00% |
| 44   | Goodra             |    2 |   1.45% |   0.00% |
| 44   | Kingdra            |    2 |   1.45% |   0.00% |
| 44   | Mimikyu            |    2 |   1.45% |   0.00% |
| 44   | Darmanitan-Galar   |    2 |   1.45% |   0.00% |
| 56   | Dusclops           |    1 |   0.72% | 100.00% |
| 56   | Darmanitan         |    1 |   0.72% | 100.00% |
| 56   | Marowak-Alola      |    1 |   0.72% | 100.00% |
| 56   | Torkoal            |    1 |   0.72% | 100.00% |
| 56   | Mienshao           |    1 |   0.72% | 100.00% |
| 56   | Gardevoir          |    1 |   0.72% | 100.00% |
| 56   | Swoobat            |    1 |   0.72% |   0.00% |
| 56   | Slowbro            |    1 |   0.72% |   0.00% |
| 56   | Drapion            |    1 |   0.72% |   0.00% |
| 56   | Alcremie           |    1 |   0.72% |   0.00% |
| 56   | Clefable           |    1 |   0.72% |   0.00% |
| 56   | Diggersby          |    1 |   0.72% |   0.00% |
| 56   | Duraludon          |    1 |   0.72% |   0.00% |
| 56   | Araquanid          |    1 |   0.72% |   0.00% |
| 56   | Pelipper           |    1 |   0.72% |   0.00% |
| 56   | Arcanine           |    1 |   0.72% |   0.00% |
| 56   | Frosmoth           |    1 |   0.72% |   0.00% |
| 56   | Sawk               |    1 |   0.72% |   0.00% |
| 56   | Copperajah         |    1 |   0.72% |   0.00% |
| 56   | Keldeo             |    1 |   0.72% |   0.00% |
| 56   | Hydreigon          |    1 |   0.72% |   0.00% |
| 56   | Lucario            |    1 |   0.72% |   0.00% |
My thoughts:
  • :urshifu: - Like I mentioned before, Urshifu (both formes) has both a 50% usage and win rate, which I find quite insane. Obviously, most of that usage can be credited towards Urshifu-S, with its Dark / Fighting Unseen Fists shenanigans, but I personally have had a liking to Rapid-Strike due to its ability to also break protect whilst being a very good counter to Incineroar, while not being as weak to Fairy-types. With that being said, Single Strike is without a doubt the most potent and prevalent offensive threat in the current metagame. Life Orb, Resist Berry, and Choice are some of its many effective sets. I've personally been using Choice Scarf, which Synergizes very well with the next Pokemon I'll talk about.
  • :Zeraora: - Zeraora is not that far behind from Urshifu. It's an amazing Fake Out user that synergizes extremely well with Urshifu due to its ability to incapacitate a check and 1v1 it if needed. Assault Vest and Life Orb are very good sets.
  • :Incineroar: - Incineroar has taken a step back from what it was in the beginning of DLC1, but it's still amazing. An intimidating Fake Out user with the ability to check the likes of Sun and Psyspam is great. Looking at replays, Chople has undoubtedly become its most prevalent set, primarily due to the Usage of Urshifu-S and other Fighting-types. Other sets are still good, though; I do believe there was a replay of someone using Assault Vest and still being able to live an attack from Urshifu.
  • :Weezing-Galar: - Galarian Weezing has become one of the premier checks to Urshifu in the current metagame, and for good reason. Fairy-type that can take a few Poison moves, doesn't hate Zeraora, along with its ability; Neutralizing Gas. NGas is easily a top 3 ability in the current metagame. Preventing any ability from going up is great for its ability to counter and facilitate.
  • :Necrozma: - D2TheW has shown how effective Necrozma is with its Power Herb set. The ability to straight-up KO Incineroar while also being an eforce user is the main reason for its 72% winrate.
  • :Mew: - Man. Mew with a 33% winrate. Not going to lie, Urshifu is obviously a reason why it's dropped off a bit, but I feel people aren't using it as effectively as they should. Of course, Imprison + Transform is amazing, but people have learned to prep for it quite effectively, and people need to adapt to that.
  • :Indeedee: - Why the hell does Indeedee-F have such a low usage rate? Psyspam is still a great playstyle. Of course, it's predictable, and people have grown to build for it, but Indeedee can work outside of Psyspam. It's the 2nd best redirector in the format, utilizing Follow Me while being Priority-Immune is not something to underrate. Of course, being weak to Urshifu-S is annoying, but Colbur does help to alleviate that problem.
Continued thoughts on Urshifu

If you haven't noticed yet, I've mentioned Urshifu-S quite a bit. I personally believe it should be suspected for some of the reasons I've mentioned here and in my previous post. I'll take some time to tackle some arguments:
Just use a fairy type
:blobglare:

I already said this in the past but I don't think Urshifu is broken at all. Weezing-G is a very underrated perfect counter to it, and solves any urshifu problems a team might have, as do most good fairy types. Additionally, colbour Indeedee-F + Literally any good special attacker (preferrably with a fairy move) completely destroy both pairings with Zeraora and Amoongus.
Urshifu is very strong, a t1 mon for sure, but I think it shares a place with pre nerf Psyspam, in being a very powerful archetype with multiple good answers that you just have to bring.
I don't think a suspect is necessary at all, people just need to get used to not being able to click protect t1 every single time.
I remember Mubs saying that blaziken was banned in Oras because "people didn't know how to deal with it at the time", let's not repeat that mistake.
Interesting take.

While I do agree that Galarian Weezing is one of Urshifu's best answers, it can be played around much like other fairies. Things like Choice Scarf do that quite effectively. Let's take your example of Indeedee, That can get doubled quite easily, leaving your Special Attacker alone. I'll assume that your Special Attacker can OHKO Urshifu, as you're pretty much done if you can't. Zeraora is fully capable of 1v1ing a majority of Special Attackers that would threaten Urshifu. It's not like Urshifu gets OHKO'd by any Special Attacker in the metagame; 100/60 isn't the best but it's workable. As for your ORAS 1v1 Blaziken comparison, people didn't know how to EV for it. As for Urshifu, it's not the case that people are mindlessly clicking protect against it and failing to handle it, Its the case that Urshifu is an amazingly strong threat in the current metagame that synergizes extremely well with other Pokemon, allowing it to bypass many of its counters and just being a menace to play against.

As for what the council is currently talking about right now, we're pretty much looking for a good means to suspect test. Room tours seem to be our only real option, but some of our members, notably 187 Fan, have mentioned how double elimination tours allow people who don't really know the meta to get reqs, which we'd like to avoid. I'm currently looking at a point system so stay tuned on that. As always, thanks for reading and have a nice day. Mubs out.
 

Mubs

All in good time.
is a Social Media Contributoris a Community Contributor
Gamefreak finally dropped the date for DLC, and it's quite earlier than what most of us expected, being October 22nd. With this in mind, the 2v2 Council has elected not to pursue a suspect on Urshifu-S.

Moving on from Urshifu, the DLC drop is in 3 weeks, so lets discuss!
(Inspired by... like 6 threads at this point)

Returning Pokemon:
1601575016521.png

New Movepool Adittions
Sources:
TR/TM - Datamine by @SciresM
IoA Tutor - Datamine by @mattyoukhana_

Anything remotely potentially relevant will be bolded.
These are subject to change (if Game Freak changes their mind).

:blaziken: Blaziken
TRs/TMs: Assurance, Revenge, U-turn, Close Combat, Aura Sphere, Heat Crash
IoA Tutor: Coaching, Scorching Sands

:dialga: Dialga
TRs/TMs: Breaking Swipe, Body Slam, Heavy Slam, Body Press
IoA Tutor: Scale Shot

:genesect: Genesect
TRs/TMs: Swift, Assurance, Leech Life, Endure, Blaze Kick (previously event-only)
IoA Tutor: -

:giratina: Giratina / :giratina-origin: Giratina-O
TRs/TMs: Phantom Force, Breaking Swipe, Body Slam
IoA Tutor: Poltergeist, Dual Wingbeat

:groudon: Groudon
TRs/TMs: Heavy Slam, Heat Crash, High Horsepower
IoA Tutor: Scorching Sands

:ho-oh: Ho-Oh
TRs/TMs: Fire Spin, Swift, Helping Hand, Imprison, Mystical Fire, Air Slash, Flare Blitz
IoA Tutor: Scorching Sands, Dual Wingbeat

:kyogre: Kyogre
TRs/TMs: Heavy Slam
IoA Tutor: -

:landorus: Landorus / :landorus-therian: Landorus-T
TRs/TMs: Self-Destruct, Scary Face, Weather Ball, Sand Tomb, Body Slam, Endure
IoA Tutor: Scorching Sands

:lugia: Lugia
TRs/TMs: Helping Hand, Imprison, Air Slash, Hurricane (previously event-only)
IoA Tutor: Dual Wingbeat, Scale Shot

:naganadel: Naganadel
TRs/TMs: Pin Missile, Endure, Toxic Spikes, Giga Impact, Swift, Assurance, Cross Poison, Hex, Breaking Swipe, Spikes, Dragon Dance
IoA Tutor: Dual Wingbeat

:palkia: Palkia
TRs/TMs: Breaking Swipe, Body Slam, Heavy Slam, Body Press
IoA Tutor: Dual Wingbeat, Scale Shot

:pheromosa: Pheromosa
TRs/TMs: Assurance, Endure, Close Combat
IoA Tutor: Coaching, Skitter Smack

:rayquaza: Rayquaza
TRs/TMs: Breaking Swipe, Hydro Pump, Cosmic Power
IoA Tutor: Meteor Beam, Scale Shot

:xerneas: Xerneas
TRs/TMs: Swift, Draining Kiss, Smart Strike, Body Slam, Endure, Play Rough
IoA Tutor: Misty Explosion

:yveltal: Yveltal
TRs/TMs: Swift, Payback, Body Slam, Endure
IoA Tutor: Dual Wingbeat, Lash Out

:zygarde-10%: Zygarde-10% /:zygarde: Zygarde /:zygarde-complete: Zygarde-C
TRs/TMs: Swift, Payback, Breaking Swipe, Body Slam, Reversal, Endure, High Horsepower
IoA Tutor: Scorching Sands, Skitter Smack, Scale Shot

:buzzwole: Buzzwole
TRs/TMs: Revenge, Body Slam, Close Combat, Darkest Lariat, High Horsepower
IoA Tutor: Coaching, Dual Wingbeat

:celesteela: Celesteela
TRs/TMs: Self-Destruct, Body Slam, Endure, Megahorn, Cosmic Power
IoA Tutor: Grassy Glide, Steel Roller

:cresselia: Cresselia
TRs/TMs: Power Swap, Guard Swap, Body Slam, Cosmic Power, Stored Power
IoA Tutor: Expanding Force

:diancie: Diancie
TRs/TMs: Charm, Fake Tears, Sand Tomb, Guard Swap, Draining Kiss, Mystical Fire, Metronome, Amnesia, Endure, Baton Pass, Encore, Stored Power, Ally Switch, Play Rough, Body Press
IoA Tutor: Meteor Beam, Misty Explosion

:dragonite: Dragonite
TRs/TMs: Fire Spin, Breaking Swipe, Hydro Pump, Mega Punch, Mega Kick, Air Slash, Body Press
IoA Tutor: Dual Wingbeat, Scale Shot

:kabutops: Kabutops
TRs/TMs: Rock Blast, Psycho Cut, Cross Poison, Razor Shell, Leech Life
IoA Tutor: Meteor Beam

:kartana: Kartana
TRs/TMs: Solar Blade, Screech, Endure
IoA Tutor: Grassy Glide

:nihilego: Nihilego
TRs/TMs: Rock Slide, Rock Tomb, Cross Poison, Hex, Body Slam, Endure
IoA Tutor: Corrosive Gas, Meteor Beam

:omastar: Omastar
TRs/TMs: Pin Missile, Liquidation
IoA Tutor: Meteor Beam

:salamence: Salamence
TRs/TMs: Air Slash, Breaking Swipe, Hurricane
IoA Tutor: Dual Wingbeat, Scale Shot

:stakataka: Stakataka
TRs/TMs: Mega Kick, Body Slam, Endure, Heavy Slam, Heat Crash, High Horsepower, Body Press
IoA Tutor: Meteor Beam, Steel Roller

:tapu-bulu: Tapu Bulu
TRs/TMs: Mega Punch, Rest, Revenge, Bullet Seed, Power Swap, Guard Swap, Endure, Close Combat, Stored Power, Play Rough, Darkest Lariat, High Horsepower
IoA Tutor: Terrain Pulse, Grassy Glide, Misty Explosion

:tapu-fini: Tapu Fini
TRs/TMs: Rest, Dive, Guard Swap, Draining Kiss, Endure, Stored Power, Play Rough
IoA Tutor: Terrain Pulse, Flip Turn, Misty Explosion

:tapu-koko: Tapu Koko
TRs/TMs: Rest, Swift, Assurance, Eerie Impulse, Endure, Close Combat, Stored Power, Play Rough
IoA Tutor: Terrain Pulse, Rising Voltage, Misty Explosion

:tapu-lele: Tapu Lele
TRs/TMs: Rest, Charm, Power Swap, Guard Swap, Speed Swap, Psycho Cut, Endure, Future Sight, Stored Power, Play Rough
IoA Tutor: Terrain Pulse, Expanding Force, Misty Explosion

:thundurus: Thundurus / :thundurus-therian: Thundurus-T
TRs/TMs: Scary Face, Weather Ball, Assurance, Eerie Impulse, Body Slam, Endure, Electro Ball
IoA Tutor: Rising Voltage, Lash Out

:tornadus: Tornadus / :tornadus-therian: Tornadus-T
TRs/TMs: Scary Face, Weather Ball, Assurance, Body Slam, Endure, Nasty Plot
IoA Tutor: Lash Out

:zapdos: Zapdos
TRs/TMs: Hail, Weather Ball, Eerie Impulse, Air Slash, Brave Bird, Hurricane
IoA Tutor: Rising Voltage, Dual Wingbeat

:absol: Absol
TRs/TMs: Air Slash, Close Combat
IoA Tutor: -

:aerodactyl: Aerodactyl
TRs/TMs: Rock Blast, Dragon Dance, Hurricane, Psychic Fangs
IoA Tutor: Dual Wingbeat, Meteor Beam

:aggron: Aggron
TRs/TMs: Body Press, Sand Tomb, Rock Blast, Scary Face, Hydro Pump, Crunch, High Horsepower, Swift
IoA Tutor: Meteor Beam, Steel Roller

:altaria: Altaria
TRs/TMs: False Swipe, Fire Spin, Breaking Swipe
IoA Tutor: Dual Wingbeat

:archeops: Archeops
TRs/TMs: Swift, Rock Blast, Assurance, Endure, Air Slash
IoA Tutor: Dual Wingbeat, Meteor Beam, Lash Out

:armaldo: Armaldo
TRs/TMs: Mud Shot, Shadow Claw
IoA Tutor: Meteor Beam

:articuno: Articuno
TRs/TMs: Weather Ball, Icicle Spear, Air Slash, Brave Bird
IoA Tutor: Triple Axel, Dual Wingbeat

:audino: Audino
TRs/TMs: Mega Punch, Mega Kick, Giga Impact, Body Slam, Endure, Swift
IoA Tutor: -

:aurorus: Aurorus
TRs/TMs: Weather Ball, Mud Shot, Rock Blast, Body Slam, Endure, Icicle Spear
IoA Tutor: Meteor Beam

:azelf: Azelf
TRs/TMs: Self-Destruct, Assurance, Drain Punch, Psycho Cut, Draining Kiss, Metronome, Tri Attack, Baton Pass, Encore, Stored Power, Play Rough
IoA Tutor: Expanding Force

:blacephalon: Blacephalon
TRs/TMs: Fire Punch, Solar Beam, Fire Spin, Self-Destruct, Rock Blast, Shadow Claw, Mystical Fire, Endure, Encore, Zen Headbutt
IoA Tutor: Scorching Sands, Expanding Force

:carbink: Carbink
TRs/TMs: Charm, Sand Tomb, Guard Swap, Endure, Body Press
IoA Tutor: Meteor Beam, Misty Explosion

:carracosta: Carracosta
TRs/TMs: Mud Shot, Rock Blast, Endure, Muddy Water, Razor Shell
IoA Tutor: Meteor Beam

:cradily: Cradily
TRs/TMs: Mud Shot, Rock Blast, Dig, Grassy Terrain, Power Whip
IoA Tutor: Grassy Glide, Meteor Beam

:crobat: Crobat
TRs/TMs: Assurance, Agility, Crunch, Hex, Hurricane
IoA Tutor: Dual Wingbeat

:cryogonal: Cryogonal
TRs/TMs: Self-Destruct, Icicle Spear, Avalanche, Endure
IoA Tutor: Triple Axel

:electivire: Electivire
TRs/TMs: Weather Ball, Darkest Lariat
IoA Tutor: Rising Voltage

:entei: Entei
TRs/TMs: Helping Hand, Weather Ball, Agility, Flare Blitz (previously event-only)
IoA Tutor: Scorching Sands

:garchomp: Garchomp
TRs/TMs: Breaking Swipe
IoA Tutor: Scorching Sands, Scale Shot

:guzzlord: Guzzlord
TRs/TMs: Mega Punch, Mega Kick, Body Slam, Amnesia, Endure, Heat Crash, High Horsepower, Body Press
IoA Tutor: Lash Out, Steel Roller

:heatran: Heatran
TRs/TMs: Self-Destruct, Body Slam, Heavy Slam, Heat Crash, Body Press
IoA Tutor: Burning Jealousy, Scorching Sands, Steel Roller

:jynx: Jynx
TRs/TMs: Icicle Spear, Psycho Cut, Psychic Terrain, Future Sight
IoA Tutor: Triple Axel, Expanding Force

:latias: Latias
TRs/TMs: Psycho Cut, Mystical Fire, Air Slash, Breaking Swipe, Agility, Tri Attack, Baton Pass, Future Sight, Dragon Dance, Aura Sphere
IoA Tutor: Dual Wingbeat, Scale Shot

:latios: Latios
TRs/TMs: Psycho Cut, Mystical Fire, Air Slash, Breaking Swipe, Agility, Tri Attack, Baton Pass, Future Sight, Aura Sphere
IoA Tutor: Dual Wingbeat, Scale Shot

:magmortar: Magmortar
TRs/TMs: Weather Ball, Mystical Fire
IoA Tutor: Burning Jealousy, Scorching Sands

:mesprit: Mesprit
TRs/TMs: Drain Punch, Psycho Cut, Draining Kiss, Metronome, Tri Attack, Baton Pass, Encore, Nasty Plot, Stored Power, Play Rough
IoA Tutor: Expanding Force

:metagross: Metagross
TRs/TMs: Psycho Cut, Cosmic Power, Brutal Swing
IoA Tutor: Expanding Force, Steel Roller, Meteor Beam

:moltres: Moltres
TRs/TMs: Hail, Weather Ball, Mystical Fire, Flare Blitz, Brave Bird
IoA Tutor: Burning Jealousy, Scorching Sands, Dual Wingbeat

:nidoking: Nidoking
TRs/TMs: Sand Tomb, Mud Shot, Rock Blast, Hex, High Horsepower, Body Press
IoA Tutor: Scorching Sands

:nidoqueen: Nidoqueen
TRs/TMs: Sand Tomb, Mud Shot, Rock Blast, Hex, High Horsepower, Body Press
IoA Tutor: Scorching Sands

:raikou: Raikou
TRs/TMs: Helping Hand, Electric Terrain, Eerie Impulse, Agility, Scald, Aura Sphere (previously event-only), Weather Ball (previously event-only)
IoA Tutor: Rising Voltage

:regice: Regice
TRs/TMs: Icicle Spear, Heavy Slam
IoA Tutor: -

:regigigas: Regigigas
TRs/TMs: Mega Punch, Mega Kick, Rest, Protect, Body Slam, Endure, Heat Crash, Darkest Lariat, High Horsepower, Body Press
IoA Tutor: Terrain Pulse

:regirock: Regirock
TRs/TMs: Sand Tomb, Rock Blast, Flash Cannon, Heavy Slam, Body Press
IoA Tutor: Meteor Beam

:registeel: Registeel
TRs/TMs: Sand Tomb, Heavy Slam, Body Press
IoA Tutor: Meteor Beam, Steel Roller

:relicanth: Relicanth
TRs/TMs: Rock Blast, Liquidation, Body Press
IoA Tutor: Meteor Beam, Scale Shot

:sceptile: Sceptile
TRs/TMs: Solar Blade, Cross Poison, Breaking Swipe, Dragon Dance
IoA Tutor: Grassy Glide, Scale Shot

:spiritomb: Spiritomb
TRs/TMs: Hex, Phantom Force
IoA Tutor: Poltergeist, Lash Out

:suicune: Suicune
TRs/TMs: Helping Hand, Weather Ball, Agility, Liquidation, Air Slash (previously event-only)
IoA Tutor: -

:swampert: Swampert
TRs/TMs: Sand Tomb, Bulk Up, Darkest Lariat, High Horsepower, Liquidation, Body Press, Swift
IoA Tutor: -

:tyrantrum: Tyrantrum
TRs/TMs: Scary Face, Rock Blast, Assurance, Body Slam, Endure, Close Combat, Breaking Swipe, High Horsepower
IoA Tutor: Meteor Beam, Scale Shot, Lash Out

:uxie: Uxie
TRs/TMs: Drain Punch, Psycho Cut, Draining Kiss, Metronome, Tri Attack, Baton Pass, Encore, Nasty Plot, Stored Power, Play Rough
IoA Tutor: Expanding Force

:victini: Victini
TRs/TMs: Mega Punch, Mega Kick, Fire Spin, Swift, Power Swap, Guard Swap, Speed Swap, Mystical Fire, Baton Pass, Encore, Future Sight, Blaze Kick
IoA Tutor: Scorching Sands, Expanding Force

:volcanion: Volcanion
TRs/TMs: Fire Spin, Scary Face, Rain Dance, Mud Shot, Thunder Fang, Misty Terrain, Focus Energy, Endure, Heavy Slam, Heat Crash, Body Press
IoA Tutor: Scorching Sands

:walrein: Walrein
TRs/TMs: Icicle Spear, Swords Dance, Hydro Pump, Heavy Slam, Liquidation, Body Press
IoA Tutor: Steel Roller

:xurkitree: Xurkitree
TRs/TMs: Endure, Electro Ball
IoA Tutor: Rising Voltage

These changes are definitely going to shake the metagame up heavily, especially since a lot of these returning Pokemon were staples in the previous generations of 2v2. Here (https://tiermaker.com/create/returning-pokemon-in-the-crown-tundra---tierlist-439238) is a link to the tiermaker containing all the fully evolved Pokemon returning in the Crown Tundra DLC. Here's my five-minute tierlist; feel free to make your own and share it in this thread.


1601583542898.png

A few questions to stir up discussion:
  • Do you think any of these Pokemon will take Urshifu's throne of being the best Pokemon in the metagame?
  • Which field effect (Weather, Terrain, Trick Room..) do you feel will dominate? How will the others fare?
  • Which currently viable Pokemon will fall off, and which will see a rise in popularity?
  • Which new Pokemon are you excited to be able to use once again?
As always, thanks for reading and have a nice day.
 
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Current fears / things that could be interesting:

Solar blade Kartana on sun could be interesting
Pheromosa/Buzzwole getting CC
Rising Voltage Tapu Koko
Expanding Force Tapu Lele
Tapu Bulu gets a lot of coverage it didn't have before
Diancie gets lots of support and setup moves now
Celesteela gets Cosmic Power
Dragonite and Salamence finally get useable flying STAB moves
Iron Defense Body Press Stakataka
Meteor Beam Nihilego might be cool with Power Herb
Xurkitree with Rising Voltage
 

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