Metagame 2v2 Doubles

Krytocon

I do things (sometimes)
What I'm worried about at the moment

Genesect can run anything, mixed, physical, special, a drive of your choice to support a certain archetype. Very unpredictable at preview, most likely used with rain to combat its only weakness. (though i don't think this will actually be top tier it's just the unpredictability that has me worried about it)

Eforce Lele is crazy, being able to set terrain and also be a potent offensive threat with Scarf or Specs allows for a multitude of semi-psyspam playstyles. I am very worried about this mon.

Rising Voltage Koko gives you an amazing Eterrain setter so you don't have to use Pincurchin anymore, enabling the fastest Fake Out in the West game and also crazy power on top of that. Life Orb Rising Voltage is basically a Z-Move every turn and paired with Koko's insane speed, decent Spatk and the ability to invest into defenses (see Elo Bandit vid on why Koko was banned from 1v1, the defense investment bit applies here too)

Victini is basically a better Accelgor for those that want to use Final Gambit as it has an actual offensive presence with V-create and Expanding Force maybe on a mixed Scarf set with Lele. Removing a Dark-type for Lele to nuke with Eforce is probably very viable. This is on my watchlist.

Zygarde with its insane physical bulk will most likely serve as a physical wall mon, with maybe band having some sort of niche? (thousand arrows is good yo)

I might fill this list out later but I mostly agree with Mubs for the tier list Free MegaRay
Mubs Out

E: My personal tier list
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Le Creme Brule

riding the wave to the land of dreams
is a Pre-Contributor
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this is my list, i messed up and put aggron in the niche tier when it's def gonna be unviable

Yeah That's Epic tier:
Zapdos - does this really need an explanation
Heatran - Bro it's Heatran in 2v2 it's always incredible
Zygarde - Bro its CB Zygarde and nothing gets HP Ice
Tapu Koko - Rising Voltage
Tapu Lele - Expanding Force (might get banned)
Tapu Bulu - Bro it's Tapu Bulu and it has Play Rough now

Great tier:
Suicune - TW + CM Stuff
Latios - It's got a great stat spread, typing, and movepool for the current metagame
Cresselia - It's a good speed control user
Victini - It hits shit so hard, u know its just vic
Landorus - It takes dumps on stuff with EP + Sludge Bomb
Genesect - Hits hard, good coverage, solid stats

Good tier:
Entei - it's been good in SM and ORAS, it'll probably still be pretty solid
Latias - slightly worse Latios, might have a niche over it for stall
Garchomp - Would be better if it was a special attacker
Diancie - Offensive TR user that beats Urshifu OwO Idk if it gets diamond storm tho which is weird
Kartana - Yeah you know, it's Kart it deletes shit
Tapu Fini - It's fini

Niche or meh:
Kabutops, Armaldo: Rain
Dnite: TW
Aerodactyl: TW / Sky Drop
Swampert: TR
Salamence: TW + Intimidate
Metagross: Bulky Steel
Uxie: TR maybe
Thundurus, Tornadus: Prankster
Nihilego: Power Herb
Volcanion: Generally decent offense
Buzzwole: Fat
Xurkitree: TW
Celesteela: Fat + Pretty Strong
Stakataka: TR


Winning Playstyles:
Terrains got massively buffed (obviously)
Sun got nerfed, Rain and Sand (sorta) got buffed
TR Buffed
TW Buffed

On another note, how did we get 0 fake out users here besides jynx?
 
Tbh this looks like one of the more healthier metas to come out of all of the DLC 2 drops, gives me a less power crept SM vibe. There's not many obvious bans outside of the quickbanned Ubers and maybe the Expanding Force / Rising Voltage Tapu Lele or Tapu Koko drops respectively, but who knows at this stage. Genesect does really appreciate the Hidden Power removal in gen 8, but I still think it's far from broken, especially with a bunch of great Fire-types being able to fit on a variety of playstyles, most notably Incineroar and Victini being meta staples. Speaking of Victini, I think the banlist should be looked at in DLC 2:
  • :victini: :accelgor: Final Gambit should be quickbanned. Giving a base 100 all around Pokemon Final Gambit is absolutely absurd and there can be a case made that other Pokemon can also use Final Gambit effectively.
  • :kyurem-black: Kyurem-B in my opinion should be suspected to be unbanned. While being miles ahead even after DLC 1, it finally matches some Pokemon in DLC 2, and seeing that power creep would now be around the level of BW, and the Fairy-type existing, a lot of the new Pokemon have a good matchup against Kyurem-B and I think it could potentially be healthy in the tier.
  • :zygarde-complete: Yeah ban this lol
Okay that's it on banlist changes, unless I'm forgetting something important. Now onto what I think benefits or loses out the most with the new editions.

Benefits:

Speed control (Tailwind or TR)
While Tailwind has seen use in Gen 8 2v2 so far with Talonflame or Whimsicott usually being the main setters, TR has been a rare strategy for a while with Porygon2 being the only big setter and not many great abusers of TR that wouldn't just appreciate being without it.

Now, with the new editions in DLC 2, Tailwind and TR will definitely be much better. Tailwind gets Zapdos, Suicune, and maybe Tornadus could all be great setters, while there are a bunch of new additions that could abuse it, like Heatran (isn't forced to run Quiet anymore wheee), Zygarde, and basically anything that would benefit from getting the new same-turn updated speed mechanics. TR on the other hand gets Porygon2 (main setter), Diancie (possibly second setter), and Cresselia (alternative main setter) as TR setters. While the amount of Pokemon that could benefit from being on TR is lower, they definitely make up for it with the amount of raw strength they can bring to the table. Heatran, Zygarde, Tapu Bulu, Diancie, and Volcanion will all probably work the best in TR. I could also see Incineroar being a good support pick on TR teams.

PsySpam

LeleZam seems like an amazing core. Indeedee-F can really just be thrown out as Tapu Lele just brings much more to the table 90% of the time. 130 SpA + Fairy type + Expanding Force + being able to set PsyTerrain is just amazing, and this will probably get banned later on. Maybe Indeedee-F having HH / Follow Me is a small niche, but why do redirection when you can just kill the things you were scared of lol

Loses out:

Mew

Mew is gonna have to be stretched more thin now, as a bunch of the new Pokemon introduced are able to nuke through it or Taunt it, forcing it to run Mental Herb, bulk, etc. It'll probably still be a great threat but it still has to worry about Taunt being on even more great things along with PsySpam / Fake Out both still being very prevalent.

Urshifu

Does not like the new meta at all, with Tapus returning, and meta getting generally faster overall, like Latios, Kartana, Naganadel, Landorus-I, Garchomp, Genesect, and Victini can all put a dent into non-Scarf sets before being hit. With the right support it can still be good, though, just I don't think it'll ever return to its DLC 1 days.

Weather

Sun and Sand already lost relevancy in DLC 1, with Rain still being a middling archetype, and Hail being non-existent, DLC 2 brings nothing to the table in terms of weather abusers, other than some random bad Pokemon that get Swift Swim. I think the weather war archetype will be replaced mostly by Terrain wars in DLC 2.

One more thing I want to talk about, here is my tier maker list for DLC 2, and why I ranked them where I did.
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Quickbanned before the meta starts:
n/a

Top tier:
:victini: Even with Final Gambit probably being banned, Victini will definitely still be great. Base 100 in every stat with great offensive coverage with moves like V-create, Blue Flare / Fusion Flare, Bolt Strike / Fusion Bolt, Energy Ball, Focus Blast, Grass Knot, Thunderbolt, Psychic / Psyshock, Expanding Force, Scorching Sands, and Zen Headbutt among more at its disposal, along with decent supportive coverage with Helping Hand / Taunt / Encore / Trick / Trick Room (lol) / Will-O-Wisp / Psych Up also being great, just make it a very versatile threat that deserves to be at the top.
:genesect: It's Genesect, doing the same thing it's been doing every gen. Download is a great ability that can pressure the opponent and physical, special, and mixed are all viable options, with a ton of coverage moves at disposal.
:zygarde: Zygarde is back again, and assuming Power Construct is banned, I can see this running a Band set probably in TR like it did in previous gens. Nothing really to say about this other than it's raw power and bulk will definitely make it an excellent threat.
:tapu-koko: :tapu-lele: They get rising voltage and expanding force lol
:tapu-bulu: I'd say it's basically Rillaboom but trading off Fake Out for the nice Fairy-type and STAB Play Rough to handle Dragon-types and Urshifu easier.
Pretty good:
:zapdos: :suicune: :tornadus: Premier Tailwind setters, each with their own weaknesses and strengths.
:latios: Life Orb is gonna be a gigantic nuke on teams, and a big threat to watch out for. Doesn't really appreciate the Steel-types and Fairy-types on top, though.
:heatran: Eruption + Choice Scarf OR Tailwind OR Trick Room go big brr
:cresselia: Alternate Porygon2 on TR, trading some bulk, power, and coverage for a free item slot that P2 wishes it could have.
:thundurus: Prankster Thunder Wave + Taunt while not being what it once was in BW is still a massive threat and Thundurus unlike other Pokemon has an actual offensive presence.
:diancie: Rock + Fairy is an interesting type combo, it's about 50/50 versus most of the meta and could definitely be a good TR setter / abuser with Weakness Policy or Air Balloon.
:volcanion: Just a cool mon that can be nice on TR again. Water type is nice for opposing Fire-types.
:kartana: Possibly a staple on hyper offense teams, Beast Boost + 181 Attack and the Steel-type that the meta needs will definitely be good.
Mid:
:blaziken: Speed Boost is interesting, I think it would work best under redirection with something like Amoonguss, as it definitely has a chance to sweep teams with support especially now that it isn't forced to run unreliable moves like Superpower or Low Kick as powerful Fighting stab, (CC available)
:salamence: Decent Intimidate setter with balanced attack / spa and nice 100 speed. Nothing too notable just looks like a decent Pokemon all around.
:metagross: While not excelling at anything in particular, powerful STAB Meteor Mashes coming off of a base 135 Attack along with it being immune to Intimidate is something to be aware of.
:latias: Will probably take the stall role to Latios as it did in gen 7 albeit as mega.
:garchomp: Again with Metagross, nothing about it really excels but it has some decent matchups along with a naturally high Attack and Speed stat. Rough Skin could probably come in clutch in some situations.
:landorus: Sheer Force boosted moves can OHKO a lot of unbulked targets, this is borderline pretty good tier, but I feel that the meta will end up getting bulkier over time. The lack of HP ice both helps but mostly hurts it.
:tapu-fini: Interesting case in 2v2, Misty Terrain is weird in the meta and I feel like this will get much less attention than the other Tapus. I frankly don't even know what it ran in gen 7 so I'll be interested to see how it turns out here.
:nihilego: :naganadel: Two Poison-types that punish the common Fairies for coming out on the field. Beast Boost will be pretty nice.
Probably will have a niche
:aerodactyl: Idk it's p fast and decent attack so it'll probably at least have a tiny niche
:dragonite: Multiscale + Tailwind maybe? Idk I see a bunch of people using Dragonite in random gens but never see anyone successful with it.
:crobat: Decent support mon with Inner Focus and neat moves like Super Fang, Taunt, and Roost.
:raikou: :entei: Inner Focus is cool, Raikou gets a bunch of new coverage in this gen while Entei just does Eruption stuff.
:buzzwole: Someone will probably find a niche for it, gets CC in this gen which is cool
:pheromosa: Fast AF mon with Beast Boost and super high base Attack and SpA make it an instant threat on the field, the big downside being how low its stats are otherwise, along with not many high BP moves.
:xurkitree: Tail Glow is cool and can do well with support. Can also probably find a way on to Electric Terrain teams since it gets Voltage now.
:celesteela: bulky bitch with a bunch of different options idk
:blacephalon: Beast boost go brr ig, immunity to Fake Out is also nice.
Likely Unviable
i aint explaining these

Oh yeah and
I realize that the Therian formes weren't on the tiermaker, even though they're going to be released in DLC 2. I'd say TornT will be unviable, ThunT I'd say is a Mid tier mon, being able to Volt Absorb Rising Voltages and having a 145 SpA at its disposal is really nice. LandoT could probably end up in Pretty Good tier, since Intimidate along with a good typing and decent coverage is really nice.

okay well that's it some of this was probably dumb because im tired lol
 
Aight so I don’t want to do a tier list cuz that’s kinda hard to tell where my opinions differ with other people’s so I’ll just have a list of mons people are sleeping on and what people are overhyping.

Slept on
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Regigigas now has access to PROTECT and a partner that can remove its ability. Weezing is pretty much the perfect partner for Regigigas because of it being able to completely shut down regigigas’s only weakness, fighting types. The catch is that if weezing dies you die in real life so protect that boi like your life depends on it.
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Ever wanted to delete a mon?

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The new tailwind mechanics and the probable spamming of tapus is very good news for Nidoking. It has stabs to threaten all of the top tiers that are coming and tailwind fixes its awkward speed stat.

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Cradily is gonna be great on sand to beat opposing rain and sun on its own, while also receiving a sand spdef buff. I think sand is going to be a stronger play style in this new meta because exca kinda just sits on tapus and most of the competition will be gone. 3 Fighting weak mons on one team doe...

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Steel roller metagross is the new wave. Just because it loses its mega doesn’t make it unviable ;__;

Overhyped
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Hot take: New gens genesect is garbo. The main argument for genesect is oOoOoo unpredictable but its really not, you might think it would have dozens of viable sets with drives and mixed coverage and shit but the only drive that doesn’t give coverage genesect already has is douse, and who the fuck needs water coverage unless you’re running some dumb Heatran bait that only does 60. Physical is also unviable because you lose bolt beam and the only reason to go physical is... stronger espeed? Genesect will only viably run Flash Cannon + Ice beam + some combo of protect / espeed / bug buzz / tbolt. Probably going to be somewhere in the 3/4 range.

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This is slower Drapapult with a different secondary stab and less coverage / support options. No idea why pokes are cool put this so high.

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No one uses this shit
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Undersped by every other tapu so it never gets its terrain up and the fun move boosted. Since this is going to be the tapu meta, that’s a pretty bad spot to be in. No hp ice means it gets completely and utterly fucked by ground types. Close combat helps with steels? Name one good steel that’s weak to fighting and doesn’t already put the slamma jamma on koko like ferro and kart.
252 Atk Tapu Koko Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kartana: 192-226 (74.1 - 87.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
DID I MENTION rising voltage doesn’t get boosted against mons unaffected by terrain? That’s right. Koko doesn’t get the necessary extra damage on mons like Celesteela,
252 SpA Life Orb Tapu Koko Rising Voltage (70 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Celesteela in Electric Terrain: 221-265 (55.6 - 66.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Cresselia, Zapdos, and more. Unless you want to run fuckin double electric coverage. Koko will not be a top tier.

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FREE MY BOY
 

Kaif

Banned deucer.
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s: koko gonna do what it did last gen with its support movepool and terrain, rising voltage is ok but won't be broken or anything considering grassy glide broke!!. Lele with expanding force big broke, unlike dong indeedeef + zam u don't need a zam to make it strong so u can use a steel/dark counter alongside lele and just like last gen its probably gonna be suspected and banned but I hope it doesn't. Kart + bulu gonna grassy glide through the meta, good luck trying to beat grassy terrain now. 252 hp robyn kart is gonna tank everything and kill back, can't wait to use it.

thundI should be lower and celes should be higher btw. oh also free kyub

i am homeless its 1:32 am and lkjc will mald at my bad takes if I continue so goodbye!!
 
Predictive Team I made (without abusing the tapus):
Tailwind Torn seems broken idk, and Nidoking is a beast (40 hp is for lo bulu glide). Also we get to use modest eruption :Heatran: now which is epic.
Tornadus (M) @ Wacan Berry
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 220 SpA / 36 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Tailwind
- Taunt
- Air Slash
- Protect

Nidoking (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 40 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 212 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Earth Power
- Sludge Bomb
- Ice Beam
- Protect

Urshifu @ Life Orb
Ability: Unseen Fist
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Protect
- Wicked Blow
- Close Combat
- Iron Head

Heatran @ Charcoal
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Protect
- Eruption
- Heat Wave
- Earth Power
 
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Mid Effort Post about DLC2 and my bad takes ig
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i’ll not talk about Unviables will talk abt top tier and what i think is interesting

Banned lol is simple you guys should know why
Tested maybe and Best of top tier-
Honestly :Tapu Lele: might be restrictive the meta seems crazy with that looking to be being around in like every game suspecting, let’s see
think :Zygarde: will be very good it’s bulk is extremely good and thousand arrows spam against everything, great typing, don’t see major weaknesses except lele, it can prob take a hit from Koko. Might be overrating this and may not be as good but it definitely will be a solid splashable pick that can fit into teams needing bulk and spammable attacks
:Tapu Koko: is the fastest of the Tapus yes but rising voltage is strong even if you go mixed and extremely versatile in it’s sets. Rising voltage tect play rough etc it seems really nice against the majority of the meta if it doesn’t need to do terrain wars, that’s be it’s weakness.
:Tapu Bulu: Prob will be incredible, Grassy Glide, Fairy stab, Taunt decent bulk, good attack, can underspeed Lele/Koko and glide them and seems Incredibly solid, might even be better then Koko.
:Kartana: 181 attack band glides in Terrain lol, might fit into the tier below but is a great partner to Bulu and glide spam it can and will do. It can even pressure train with support + Fighting Coverage.
Top tier-
:Latios: Life orb Stabs threatens a lot, it just doesn’t feel as viable as top due to fairy weakness + another dragon but seems extremely solid with it’s general strengths. Latios is Latios.
:Genesect: It’s movepool is great, it’s just good in 2v2, download is an incredible boon to it and yeah. Just overall solid mixed/special attacker which can threaten some common mons. Coverage is up to what it achieves on a certain team. Versatility plays into it’s favour
:Landorus: Very Strong people who play SM will know lo sheer force is a truck and can run protect very well without losing on anything, it has a electric immunity too, which is nice.
:Landorus-Therian: Lando-T isn’t on the list but it seems great/good, hits p hard physically but it’s claim to fame is intimidate + it’s typing.
:Victini: Might be underestimating it but it’s really good. Glaciate Tect and V-Create Bolt strike, has great defences and offences, Can’t go wrong with this.
:Cresselia: Lol. Great bulk Trick room good support movepool, people who play 2v2 know of it’s potential.
:Tornadus: Prankster Tailwind + insert broken mon here.
:Heatran: this mon is a freaking threat, not having to run quiet for eruption makes it even better and it’s typing is sick af in this soon to be meta. Again, like victini you can’t go wrong with this.
So I’ll pick some from Good which i want to speak about-
:Nidoking: as people have pointed out, this about to be insane, Speed Control (tailwind mainly) + this will be great. It pressures almost all the top tiers with it’s stabs and coverage, it’ll surge into popularity due to MUs mostly and as D2 says- Nido can do anything.
:Stakataka: This bout to be a threat with 130+ attack Gyro ball in trick room, is also bulky af. My man Stakataka.
:Garchomp: Dragon Ground with stab quake which works with Torn/Flame, decent offensive mon, nothing much to say here
:Naganadel: :Pheromosa: :Celesteela: Eh might be worse but Naga is prob bad but can do some stuff to fairies ig. Phero is just a nuke but dies to everything so it’ll be bad as fake out speed control etc exists lol.
Cele might be a bulky attacker/Seeder, also seems not great, these mons are overrated and put them in the wrong tier.

Edit: Lkjc tells me Entei is viable and i see a niche, so imagine it’s good/maybe viable.
Don’t want to go lower then this, hope y’all read all of this. Have a nice day.
Mubs Out
 
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Mubs

All in good time.
is a Social Media Contributoris a Community Contributor
Hey, thanks for all the discussion on the upcoming DLC. Let me take a moment to talk about some things coming up in the next month or so.

Council:

With the DLC drop, we'll be looking into establishing a Day 0 banlist off the information we've been given. I personally would like to be quite liberal with this banlist, as we'll have roughly 3-5 weeks before our next major tournament featuring SS, and I'm currently looking into adopting the ban slates that lower tiers have been doing since Gen 6, at least for the first month or so. There has been discussion in both the room and discord about the unbans of Kyurem-Black and Magearna in particular, and it might be worth it to give them a shot. Personally, I think they're too overwhelming, but it doesn't really hurt us that much to give them their chances. Either way, I'll bring it up with the rest of the council.

On the topic of our metagame council, we're looking to expand it with applications, linked here. We've generally have decided members through nominations but with the DLC drop, it seems best to find out who's interested and decide from there.


Tournaments

Thanks to all who've been playing and congrats to Djokra for winning SM Cup. I'll post usage stats and sheet soon in its respective thread. The next tournament up is the highly anticipated 2v2PL II, which will likely start (in manager signups) on November 1st, when Classic should be in finals. Expect some more information on that soon.


As always thanks for reading and have a nice day.
 
If yall want to play prototype dlc 2v2:
/tour create [Gen 8] 2v2 Doubles, elimination,,2, [Gen 8] 2v2 Doubles DLC2 Prototype Tournament
/tour rules !Obtainable Moves, +Nidoran-Male, +Nidoran-Female, +Nidorina, +Nidorino, +Nidoking, +Nidoqueen, +Zubat, +Golbat, +Jynx, +Electabuzz, +Magmar, +Omanyte, +Omastar, +Kabuto, +Kabutops, +Aerodactyl, +Articuno, +Zapdos, +Moltres, +Dratini, +Dragonair, +Dragonite, +Crobat, +Smoochum, +Elekid, +Magby, +Raikou, +Entei, +Suicune, +Treecko, +Grovyle, +Sceptile, +Torchic, +Combusken, +Blaziken, +Mudkip, +Marshtomp, +Swampert, +Beldum, +Metang, +Metagross, +Regirock, +Regice, +Registeel, +Latias, +Latios, +Spiritomb, +Gible, +Gabite, +Garchomp, +Aron, +Lairon, +Aggron, +Swablu, +Altaria, +Lileep, +Cradily, +Anorith, +Armaldo, +Absol, +Spheal, +Sealeo, +Walrein, +Relicanth, +Bagon, +Shelgon, +Salamence, +Electivire, +Magmortar, +Uxie, +Mesprit, +Azelf, +Heatran, +Regigigas, +Cresselia, +Victini, +Audino, +Tirtouga, +Carracosta, +Archen, +Archeops, +Cryogonal, +Tornadus, +Thundurus, +Landorus, +Genesect, +Tyrunt, +Tyrantrum, +Amaura, +Aurorus, +Carbink, +Zygarde, +Diancie, +Volcanion, +Tapu Koko, +Tapu Lele, +Tapu Fini, +Tapu Bulu, +Nihilego, +Buzzwole, +Pheromosa, +Xurkitree, +Celesteela, +Kartana, +Guzzlord, +Poipole, +Naganadel, +Stakataka, +Blacephalon, +togekiss, +necrozma, -final gambit
/challenge [user], [Gen 8] 2v2 Doubles @@@ two vs two, +Nidoran-Male, +Nidoran-Female, +Nidorina, +Nidorino, +Nidoking, +Nidoqueen, +Zubat, +Golbat, +Jynx, +Electabuzz, +Magmar, +Omanyte, +Omastar, +Kabuto, +Kabutops, +Aerodactyl, +Articuno, +Zapdos, +Moltres, +Dratini, +Dragonair, +Dragonite, +Crobat, +Smoochum, +Elekid, +Magby, +Raikou, +Entei, +Suicune, +Treecko, +Grovyle, +Sceptile, +Torchic, +Combusken, +Blaziken, +Mudkip, +Marshtomp, +Swampert, +Beldum, +Metang, +Metagross, +Regirock, +Regice, +Registeel, +Latias, +Latios, +Spiritomb, +Gible, +Gabite, +Garchomp, +Aron, +Lairon, +Aggron, +Swablu, +Altaria, +Lileep, +Cradily, +Anorith, +Armaldo, +Absol, +Spheal, +Sealeo, +Walrein, +Relicanth, +Bagon, +Shelgon, +Salamence, +Electivire, +Magmortar, +Uxie, +Mesprit, +Azelf, +Heatran, +Regigigas, +Cresselia, +Victini, +Audino, +Tirtouga, +Carracosta, +Archen, +Archeops, +Cryogonal, +Tornadus, +Thundurus, +Landorus, +Genesect, +Tyrunt, +Tyrantrum, +Amaura, +Aurorus, +Carbink, +Zygarde, +Diancie, +Volcanion, +Tapu Koko, +Tapu Lele, +Tapu Fini, +Tapu Bulu, +Nihilego, +Buzzwole, +Pheromosa, +Xurkitree, +Celesteela, +Kartana, +Guzzlord, +Poipole, +Naganadel, +Stakataka, +Blacephalon, +togekiss, +necrozma, -final gambit, !Obtainable Moves
 
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Mubs

All in good time.
is a Social Media Contributoris a Community Contributor
Hey, after some time discussing within the council, we've decided to add Krytocon and Kaif! Congratulations to both; I hope these additions will help us be better equipped to handle the upcoming DLC drops.

As for the DLC drops, I started some discussion last night on a preliminary banlist; what we'll start with as PS implements the new Pokemon and moves. Here's my proposed banlist, though do remember - it's not final:

Bans: Mewtwo, Jirachi, Reshiram, Zekrom, Kyurem-White, Solgaleo, Lunala, Necrozma-Dusk Mane, Necrozma-Dawn Wings, Magearna, Marshadow, Melmetal, Zacian, Zamazenta, Eternatus, Xerneas, Yveltal, Lugia, Ho-oh, Kyogre, Groudon, Rayquaza, Palkia, Dialga, Giratina, Focus Sash, Perish Song, Final Gambit, Power Construct

Bans:
Ban locks
:xerneas::yveltal::lugia::ho-oh::kyogre::groudon::rayquaza::palkia::dialga::giratina::Zygarde-Complete:

I don't really think I need to give a reason why this Pokemon should be banned - they're box legendaries and are obscenely broken on paper, besides maybe Zygarde-C, but that's a stretch.

Iffy but probably not worth it
:Magearna:
Magearna, although mentioned quite a bit with the way it was banned from 2v2 being our prior connection with the banlist of DOU, is not worth it in my opinion. Soul Heart, an amazing movepool, combined with arguably the best typing in Pokemon just seems too much for this metagame. Sure, we have actual Fire- and Ground-types that can hit it with the upcoming DLC. but I don't think it'll be enough to contain the onslaught that its place in the metagame would ensue.

Unbans / Pokemon I'd like to see before I make a decision:

:ss/tapu lele:

With all the DLC theorymoning we've done in the last weeks, Tapu Lele has stood out considerably among the rest. On paper, Its newfound access to Expanding Force coupled with its good typing, speed, and ability to prevent priority make it a menace to play against, especially with partners such as Alakazam. I personally would like to see how the DLC metagame progresses - whether it can adapt to it or not - before jumping to conclusions on whether it's broken or not.

:ss/kyurem-black:

Kyurem-Black came back with the release of Pokemon Home a few months ago where it was extremely obvious how much better it was than the rest of the metagame. With the new additions that are coming with DLC2, I'd like to see how it does.


By the way, 2v2PL II was just recently approved! We're a go for November 1st as manager signups and November 8th as player signups. Hope to see you all sign up. Anyways, thanks for reading and have a nice day. Mubs out.
 
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My first impressions regarding the DLC:

The Meta:
The Meta definitely seems fun to play, maybe this is because of its short time out but it definitely feels much less centralized than the DLC1 meta. The variety of available options and teamstyles resembles SM, but is entirely unique from it.

Some Key Mons:
The Tapus:
Tapu Koko, having received neither Rising Voltage nor Play Rough, is basically back doing exactly what it did in SM, being a fast offensive utility mon. As purely a terrain setter on eterrain teams it's strictly outclassed by Pincurchin who is slower than all other setters and also bulkier, but the combination of speed and utility make Tapu Koko a decent mon in its own right.

Tapu Lele is not banworthy, though it might have been had it gotten eforce. As purely a terrain setter it's technically outclassed by Indeedee-F thanks to its support moves, however with support of its own from pokemon such as Clef, or under Tornadus' Tailwind, it's a very powerful offensive menace, but I don't think it's too much. Most steel types do well against it provided they don't lose to Focus Blast, and other setters (mainly Rillaboom) do a good job of invalidating Lele as well.

Tapu Bulu scandalously got neither Grassy Glide nor Play Rough and is therefore entirely outclassed by Rillaboom.

Tapu Fini is still devilishly bulky, but I'm not sure how it stands in relation to the more powerful Primarina. Time will tell if it's worth anything.

The New Regis:
Regieleki is fast enough to comfortably outspeed benchmarks such as Kingdra in rain, and its Rising Voltage is absolutely deadly to anything that isn't a ground type in the not-hard-to-set electric terrain, but it's movepool is obviously garbage. How well it will do depends on how viable ground types (and zera) will be, but in general highly specialised mons like this have a higher chance at success in 2v2 than in other formats (see zam previously), so I have pretty high hopes for the bouncy boi.

Regidrago's Dragon Energy is an absolute nuke, but it's way slower than eleki. It does have weird coverage options like Fire Fang but being forced to run mixed on a mon already struggling in the speed department isn't a great thing. It'll probably have a nice niche on Tailwind teams as an unconventional nuke, but the speed issue will probably hold it back from success on other kinds of teams.

KyuB:
KyuB is... very good. Its bulk is still ludicrous for its offensive power on both ends of the spectrum, however the loss of HP Fire means genesect and other steel types can now be considered counters. I'm not entirely sure if it's suspect worthy or not, but it's something to look out for.

Genesect:
Genesect is good, but not because it's unpredictable, it can only really run av or life orb or scarf with basically identical moves. It's nice to have a good steel special attacker in the meta that isn't utterly unbeatable, in my opinion it's healthy.

Calyrex & the Horses:
Calyrex is literally unviable, Ice Horse is fun on TR, Ghost Horse is Pult with no moveset, and the fusions are funny to look at.

Potential Unbans:
Power Construct:
Zygarde-Complete is probably still way too good, outside of Genesect's Ice Beams the meta seems ill-equipped to handle this bulky beast. It might potentially be worth a thought, not more though in my opinion.

Magearna:
I still belive Magearna can be balanced, although it's hard to tell if it actually is. Heatran exists and is a counter, and it doesn't really have a great way of dealing with Genesect either. Final gambit is also banned now, which was one of the concerns before. I very much think this is worth testing, which is all I can say with the current information available.

Melmetal:
The stats on this thing are still way too insane, also DIB in TR flinches everything. I don't think anyone wants this stupid mon unbanned.

KyuW:
This mon is basically what if KyuB beat every steel type instead of losing to them. It's best to not touch this thing.

Final Thoughts:
Mubs Out.
 
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Mubs

All in good time.
is a Social Media Contributoris a Community Contributor
Within a week or so of playing in ladder and room tournaments, the metagames' been pretty stable. Nothing really strikes me as obscenely broken, though the best mon right now is undoubtedly Kyurem-Black due to its power and versatility. With the stability we've had, I think it's worth starting to work on resources. Here's what we have right off the bat:
Great:
  • :Cresselia: Cresselia
  • :Genesect: Genesect
  • :Kyurem-Black: Kyurem-Black
  • :Landorus: Landorus
  • :Suicune: Suicune
  • :Tapu Lele: Tapu Lele
  • :Tornadus: Tornadus
  • :Zygarde: Zygarde
Good:
  • :Alakazam: Alakazam
  • :Amoonguss: Amoonguss
  • :Dracovish: Dracovish
  • :Heatran: Heatran
  • :Incineroar: Incineroar
  • :Indeedee-f: Indeedee-Female
  • :Kartana: Kartana
  • :Kingdra: Kingdra
  • :Landorus-Therian: Landorus-Therian
  • :Politoed: Politoed
  • :Porygon2: Porygon2
  • :Primarina: Primarina
  • 1604075775757.png
    Regidrago
  • 1604075764371.png
    Regieleki
  • :Rillaboom: Rillaboom
  • :Tapu Koko: Tapu Koko
  • :Tapu Fini: Tapu Fini
  • :Urshifu: Urshifu
  • :Victini: Victini
  • :Volcanion: Volcanion
  • :Volcarona: Volcarona
  • :Zeraora: Zeraora
Viable:
  • :Diancie: Diancie
  • :Entei: Entei
  • :Dracozolt: Dracozolt
  • 1604075896162.png
    Glastrier
  • :Pincurchin: Pincurchin
  • 1604075868830.png
    Spectrier
  • :Hatterene: Hatterene
  • :Tapu Bulu: Tapu Bulu
  • :Togekiss: Togekiss
  • :Tyranitar: Tyranitar
  • :Whimsicott: Whimsicott
Standard Regidrago by Lkjc
:Talonflame::Regidrago::Genesect::Urshifu:

Double Life Orb + AV KyuB by Lkjc
:Thundurus::Heatran::Kyurem-Black::Gastrodon:

VG Entei by Le Creme Brule
:Entei::Landorus::Rillaboom::Porygon2:

Tapu Lele Offense by Vrji
:Tapu Lele::Volcarona::Kartana::Suicune:

DracoNido Tailwind by Vrji
:Tornadus::Nidoking::Regidrago::Genesect:

Huge shoutout to VR council and Sample team QC for helping develop these, along with the people playing for helping us test.

If you haven't already noticed, 2v2 Doubles Premier League II is about to begin its signups, so stay tuned for that. s/o momo! for making this amazing banner.

Anyway, that concludes my 69th post in the 2v2 thread. As always, thanks for reading, and have a nice day. Mubs out.
 
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Mubs vr is kinda quirky Don’t mind if I make some edits


Great:

:Genesect: Genesect
:Indeedee-f: Indeedee-Female
:Kyurem-Black: Kyurem-Black
:Rillaboom: Rillaboom
:Suicune: Suicune
:Tapu Fini: Tapu Fini
:Tapu Lele: Tapu Lele
:Urshifu: Urshifu
:Tornadus: Tornadus

Good:

:Diancie: Diancie
:Dracovish: Dracovish
:Entei: Entei
:Heatran: Heatran
:Incineroar: Incineroar
:Kartana: Kartana
:Landorus: Landorus
:Pincurchin: Pincurchin
:Politoed: Politoed
:Primarina: Primarina
1604075764371.png
Regieleki
:Talonflame: Talonflame
:Victini: Victini
:Volcanion: Volcanion
:Volcarona: Volcarona
:Whimsicott: Whimsicott
:Zapdos: Zapdos
:Zeraora: Zeraora
:Zygarde: Zygarde

Viable: (red is unviable I didn’t want to make a new category)

:Alakazam: Alakazam
:Amoonguss: Amoonguss
:Cresselia: Cresselia
:Dracozolt: Dracozolt
1604075896162.png
Glastrier
:Kingdra: Kingdra
:Landorus-Therian: Landorus-Therian
1604075775757.png
Regidrago
1604075868830.png
Spectrier
:Hatterene: Hatterene
:Porygon2: Porygon2
:Tapu Bulu: Tapu Bulu
:Tapu Koko: Tapu Koko

:Thundurus: Thundurus
:Togekiss: Togekiss
:Tyranitar: Tyranitar

Ok have a good day everyone, especially vr council I love you guys :blobthumbsup:
 
Great:

  • :Genesect: Genesect
  • :Tapu Fini: Tapu Fini
  • :Kyurem-Black: Kyurem-Black
  • :Tapu Lele: Tapu Lele
  • :Zygarde: Zygarde
  • :Urshifu: Urshifu
  • :Incineroar: Incineroar
Good:

  • :Cresselia: Cresselia
  • :Suicune: Suicune
  • :Tornadus: Tornadus
  • :Amoonguss: Amoonguss
  • :Indeedee-f: Indeedee-Female
  • :Kartana: Kartana
  • :Landorus-Therian: Landorus-Therian
  • :Porygon2: Porygon2
  • 1604075764371.png
    Regieleki
  • :Rillaboom: Rillaboom
  • :Entei: Entei
  • :Victini: Victini
  • :Volcanion: Volcanion
  • :Volcarona: Volcarona
  • :Zeraora: Zeraora
  • :Landorus: Landorus
  • :blaziken: Blaziken
  • :Diancie: Diancie
  • :Zapdos: Zapdos
Viable:

  • :Dracozolt: Dracozolt
  • 1604075896162.png
    Glastrier
  • :Pincurchin: Pincurchin
  • :Heatran: Heatran
  • :Hatterene: Hatterene
  • :Tapu Bulu: Tapu Bulu
  • :Togekiss: Togekiss
  • :Tyranitar: Tyranitar
  • :Whimsicott: Whimsicott
  • 1604075775757.png
    Regidrago
  • :Primarina: Primarina
  • :Alakazam: Alakazam
  • :Politoed: Politoed
  • :Kingdra: Kingdra
  • :Urshifu-Rapid-Strike: Urshifu-Rapid-Strike
  • :Talonflame: Talonflame

Mons on the list that I want to remove

  • :Tapu Koko: Tapu Koko
  • :Dracovish: Dracovish
  • 1604075868830.png
    Spectrier
 
Last edited:
More resources no one asked for:

Post DLC Speed Tiers

Key
Min Speed
= 0 IVs + Reducing Nature + 0 EVs
Uninvested = 0 EVs
Fast = 252 EVs
Max Speed = Increasing Nature + 252 EVs
Standard = Sets compendium sets for top meta mons
Any instance of a Speed increasing item, ability, or relevant element will also be mentioned.

Bolded text
will be used to indicate particularly important benchmarks.

Min Speed Stakataka: 27
Min Speed Pincurchin: 31
Min Speed Torkoal, Ferrothorn: 40
Min Speed Dusclops, Gigalith: 49
Min Speed Hatterene: 56
Min Speed Glastrier, Snorlax: 58
Min Speed Bronzong: 63
Uninvested Pincurchin: 66
Uninvested Ferrothorn, Min Speed Rhyperior: 76
Min Speed Vikavolt: 81
Min Speed Conkeldurr: 85
Uninvested Gigalith: 86
Min Speed Diancie, Sableye, Azumarill: 94
Uninvested Amoonguss, Glastrier, Snorlax: 96
Uninvested Clefairy: 106
Min Speed Incineroar, Primarina, Oranguru, Porygon2, Aegislash, Abomasnow: 112
Min Speed Tyranitar, Uninvested Gastrodon: 114
Min Speed Pelipper: 121
Uninvested Vikavolt: 122
Uninvested Conkeldurr: 126
Uninvested Diancie, Chansey, Azumarill, Tangrowth: 136
Min Speed Heatran: 143
Min Speed Necrozma: 146
Min Speed Regidrago: 148
Uninvested Scrafty: 152
Uninvested Incineroar, Porygon2, Grimmsnarl, Weezing-G, Primarina, Sylveon, Abomasnow, Magnezone: 156
Min Speed Indeedee-F, Rillaboom, Cresselia: 157
Uninvested Tyranitar, Celesteela: 158
Uninvested Scizor, Pelipper: 166
Standard Slow Incineroar: 168
Uninvested Corviknight: 170
Uninvested Bisharp, Hitmontop, Metagross, Volcanion: 176
Standard Fast Incineroar: 178
Uninvested Tapu Bulu: 186
Fast Conkeldurr: 189
Uninvested Heatran: 190
Uninvested Blastoise: 192
Uninvested Necrozma, Buzzwole: 194
Uninvested Togekiss, Goodra, Regidrago: 196
Uninvested Milotic: 198
Negative Nature Kyurem-Black: 203
Uninvested Kommo-o, Indeedee-F, Rillaboom, Cresselia, Suicune, Tapu Fini: 206
Uninvested Rotom Formes: 208
Uninvested Mr.Mime, Moltres-G: 216
Uninvested Landorus-T: 218
Fast Grimmsnarl, Weezing-G, Primarina, Sylveon, Abomasnow, Magnezone: 219
Uninvested Kyurem-Black, Zygarde: 226
Fast Scizor, Sirfetch'd: 229
Uninvested Entei, Zapdos, Victini: 236
Fast Mantine, Bisharp, Hitmontop, Ludicolo, Metagross, Volcanion: 239
Fast Malamar: 245
Fast Drednaw: 247
Fast Dracovish, Dracozolt, Tapu Bulu, Toxtricity: 249
Max Speed Sirfetch'd: 251
Fast Heatran: 253
Fast Blastoise: 255
Fast Necrozma, Buzzwole: 257
Uninvested Tornadus, Thundurus: 258
Fast Venusaur, Passimian, Braviary, Chandelure, Blaziken, Regidrago: 259
Fast Gyarados, Milotic: 261
Max Speed Mantine, Bisharp, Hitmontop, Ludicolo, Metagross, Volcanion: 262
Uninvested Whimsicott: 268
Fast Kingdra, Kommo-o, Rillaboom, Suicune, Tapu Fini, Nidoking: 269
Max Speed Drednaw, Rotom Formes: 271
Max Speed Dracovish, Dracozolt, Tapu Bulu, Toxtricity: 273
Fast Excadrill: 275
Max Speed Heatran: 278
Fast Mr.Mime, Porygon-Z, Lilligant, Moltres-G: 279
Fast Landorus-T: 281
Max Speed Necrozma, Buzzwole: 282
Fast Krookodile: 283
Max Speed Venusaur, Passimian, Braviary, Chandelure, Blaziken, Regidrago: 284
Max Speed Gyarados: 287
Uninvested Talonflame: 288
Fast Darmanitan Formes, Kyurem-Black, Zygarde, Tapu Lele, Silvally Formes, Indeedee-M: 289
Fast Urshifu Formes, Haxorus, Morpeko: 293
Max Speed Kingdra, Kommo-o, Rillaboom, Suicune, Tapu Fini, Nidoking, Fast Hydreigon: 295
Fast Genesect: 297
Max Speed Rotom Formes: 298
Fast Volcarona, Charizard, Ninetales, Entei, Zapdos, Zapdos-G, Victini: 299
Fast Landorus, Thundurus-T: 301
Max Speed Excadrill: 302
Fast Garchomp: 303
Fast Nihilego: 305
Max Speed Porygon-Z, Lilligant, Moltres-G: 306
Standard Hawlucha: 308
Fast Mienshao, Max Speed Landorus-T: 309
Max Speed Krookodile: 311
Fast Blacephalon: 313
Fast Keldeo, Terrakion: 315
Max Speed Kyurem-Black, Zygarde, Tapu Lele, Silvally Formes, Indeedee-M, Darmanitan Formes, Fast Durant, Kartana: 317
Fast Raichu formes, Latios, Latias: 319
Fast Tornadus, Thundurus: 321
Max Speed Urshifu Formes, Haxorus, Morpeko: 322
Max Speed Hydreigon: 324
Max Speed Genesect: 326
Max Speed Mew, Volcarona, Charizard, Ninetales, Entei, Zapdos, Zapdos-G, Victini: 328
Max Speed Landorus, Thundurus-T, Fast Whimsicott: 331
Max Speed Garchomp: 333
Fast Hawlucha, Max Speed Nihilego: 335
Fast Cinderace: 337
Max Speed Mienshao, Fast Alakazam: 339
Fast Naganadel: 341
Max Speed Blacephalon: 344
Max Speed Keldeo, Terrakion: 346
Max Speed Durant, Kartana: 348
Fast Weavile: 349
Max Speed Raichu Formes, Latios, Latias: 350
Fast Talonflame: 351
Max Speed Tornadus, Thundurus: 353
Scarf Fast Volcanion: 358
Fast Tapu Koko, Spectrier: 359
Max Speed Whimsicott: 364
Max Speed Hawlucha: 368
Max Speed Cinderace: 370
Max Speed Alakazam: 372
Scarf Fast Dracovish, Tapu Bulu: 373
Max Speed Naganadel: 375
Fast Dragapult, Max Speed Weavile: 383
Fast Zeraora: 385
Scarf Fast Chandelure, Regidrago, +1 Fast Blaziken: 388
Fast Accelgor: 389
Scarf Max Speed Volcanion: 393
Max Speed Tapu Koko, Spectrier: 394
Fast Pheromosa: 401
Scarf Max Speed Dracovish, Tapu Bulu: 409
Uninvested Suicune under Tailwind: 412
Scarf Fast Porygon-Z: 418
Max Speed Dragapult: 421
Max Speed Zeraora: 423
Scarf Max Speed Chandelure, Regidrago, +1 Max Speed Blaziken: 426
Max Speed Accelgor: 427
Scarf Fast Darmanitan Formes, Kyurem-Black, +1 Fast Zygarde: 433
Fast Morpeko at +1: 439
Max Speed Pheromosa: 441
Scarf Fast Hydreigon: 442
Scarf Fast Genesect: 445
Scarf Fast Charizard: 448
Scarf max speed Porygon-Z: 459
Scarf Fast Blacephalon: 469
Uninvested Zapdos under Tailwind: 472
Scarf Max Speed Darmanitan Formes, Kyurem-Black, +1 Max Speed Zygarde: 475
Swift Swim Fast Mantine, Ludicolo, Scarf Fast Latios: 478
Max Speed Morpeko at +1: 483
Scarf Max Speed Hydreigon: 486
Scarf Max Speed Genesect: 489
Scarf Max Speed Charizard, Swift swim Fast Drednaw: 494
Fast Dracovish under Tailwind/Sand Rush: 498
Fast Regieleki: 499
Fast Heatran under Tailwind: 506
Scarf Max Speed Blacephalon: 516
Chlorophyll Fast Venusaur, Fast Regidrago under Tailwind, +2 Fast Blaziken: 518
Swift Swim Max Speed Mantine, Ludicolo: 524
Max Speed Scarf Latios: 525
Swift Swim Fast Kingdra, Fast Suicune under Tailwind: 538
Swift Swim Max Speed Drednaw: 542
Max Speed Dracovish under Tailwind/Sand Rush: 546
Max Speed Regieleki: 548
Max Speed Heatran under Tailwind: 556
Chlorophyll Fast Lilligant: 558
Chlorophyll Max Speed Venusaur, Max Speed Regidrago under Tailwind, +2 Max Speed Blaziken: 568
Sand Rush Fast Excadrill: 550
Fast Darmanitan Formes under Tailwind: 578
Swift Swim Max Speed Kingdra, Max Speed Suicune under Tailwind: 590
Fast Zapdos under Tailwind: 598
Sand Rush Max Speed Excadrill: 604
Chlorophyll Max Speed Lilligant: 612
Unburden Standard Hawlucha: 616
Max Speed Darmanitan Formes under Tailwind: 634
Surge Surfer Fast Raichu-A: 638
Max Speed Zapdos under Tailwind: 656
Unburden Fast Hawlucha: 670
Surge Surfer Max Speed Raichu-A: 700
Fast Talonflame under Tailwind: 702
Unburden Max Speed Hawlucha: 736
Max Speed Talonflame under Tailwind: 772
+6 Unburden Max Speed Regieleki under Tailwind: 8767

Krytocon for leaving his homework in an easy place for me to copy
smely socks for saying that max speed moltres is 309 when it’s actually 306 and making me manually recheck every mon
turtalkatthing hello

If there's anything you feel is wrong (mons that should be bolded that aren't (You know what Vrji, I might just bold pincurchin), mons that are bolded that shouldn't be, mons not being there/at the right speed tier and even things like spelling mistakes), feel free to shout at me and tell me how wrong I am.
(Copied from kryto)

Mubs out
 
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Krytocon

I do things (sometimes)
More resources no one asked for:

Post DLC Speed Tiers

Key
Min Speed
= 0 IVs + Reducing Nature + 0 EVs
Uninvested = 0 EVs
Fast = 252 EVs
Max Speed = Increasing Nature + 252 EVs
Standard = Sets compendium sets for top meta mons
Any instance of a Speed increasing item, ability, or relevant element will also be mentioned.

Bolded text
will be used to indicate particularly important benchmarks.

Min Speed Stakataka: 27
Min Speed Pincurchin: 31
Min Speed Torkoal, Ferrothorn: 40
Min Speed Dusclops, Gigalith: 49
Min Speed Hatterene: 56
Min Speed Glastrier, Snorlax: 58
Min Speed Bronzong: 63
Uninvested Pincurchin: 66
Uninvested Ferrothorn, Min Speed Rhyperior: 76
Min Speed Vikavolt: 81
Min Speed Conkeldurr: 85
Uninvested Gigalith: 86
Min Speed Diancie, Sableye, Azumarill: 94
Uninvested Amoonguss, Glastrier, Snorlax: 96
Uninvested Clefairy: 106
Min Speed Incineroar, Primarina, Oranguru, Porygon2, Aegislash, Abomasnow: 112
Min Speed Tyranitar, Uninvested Gastrodon: 114
Min Speed Pelipper: 121
Uninvested Vikavolt: 122
Uninvested Conkeldurr: 126
Uninvested Diancie, Chansey, Azumarill, Tangrowth: 136
Min Speed Heatran: 143
Min Speed Necrozma: 146
Min Speed Regidrago: 148
Uninvested Scrafty: 152
Uninvested Incineroar, Porygon2, Grimmsnarl, Weezing-G, Primarina, Sylveon, Abomasnow, Magnezone: 156
Min Speed Indeedee-F, Rillaboom, Cresselia: 157
Uninvested Tyranitar, Celesteela: 158
Uninvested Scizor, Pelipper: 166
Standard Slow Incineroar: 168
Uninvested Corviknight: 170
Uninvested Bisharp, Hitmontop, Metagross, Volcanion: 176
Standard Fast Incineroar: 178
Uninvested Tapu Bulu: 186
Fast Conkeldurr: 189
Uninvested Heatran: 190
Uninvested Blastoise: 192
Uninvested Necrozma, Buzzwole: 194
Uninvested Togekiss, Goodra, Regidrago: 196
Uninvested Milotic: 198
Negative Nature Kyurem-Black: 203
Uninvested Kommo-o, Indeedee-F, Rillaboom, Cresselia, Suicune, Tapu Fini: 206
Uninvested Rotom Formes: 208
Uninvested Mr.Mime, Moltres-G: 216
Uninvested Landorus-T: 218
Fast Grimmsnarl, Weezing-G, Primarina, Sylveon, Abomasnow, Magnezone: 219
Uninvested Kyurem-Black, Zygarde: 226
Fast Scizor, Sirfetch'd: 229
Uninvested Entei, Zapdos, Victini: 236
Fast Mantine, Bisharp, Hitmontop, Ludicolo, Metagross, Volcanion: 239
Fast Malamar: 245
Fast Drednaw: 247
Fast Dracovish, Dracozolt, Tapu Bulu, Toxtricity: 249
Max Speed Sirfetch'd: 251
Fast Heatran: 253
Fast Blastoise: 255
Fast Necrozma, Buzzwole: 257
Uninvested Tornadus, Thundurus: 258
Fast Venusaur, Passimian, Braviary, Chandelure, Blaziken, Regidrago: 259
Fast Gyarados, Milotic: 261
Max Speed Mantine, Bisharp, Hitmontop, Ludicolo, Metagross, Volcanion: 262
Uninvested Whimsicott: 268
Fast Kingdra, Kommo-o, Rillaboom, Suicune, Tapu Fini, Nidoking: 269
Max Speed Drednaw, Rotom Formes: 271
Max Speed Dracovish, Dracozolt, Tapu Bulu, Toxtricity: 273
Fast Excadrill: 275
Max Speed Heatran: 278
Fast Mr.Mime, Porygon-Z, Lilligant, Moltres-G: 279
Fast Landorus-T: 281
Max Speed Necrozma, Buzzwole: 282
Fast Krookodile: 283
Max Speed Venusaur, Passimian, Braviary, Chandelure, Blaziken, Regidrago: 284
Max Speed Gyarados: 287
Uninvested Talonflame: 288
Fast Darmanitan Formes, Kyurem-Black, Zygarde, Tapu Lele, Silvally Formes, Indeedee-M: 289
Fast Urshifu Formes, Haxorus, Morpeko: 293
Max Speed Kingdra, Kommo-o, Rillaboom, Suicune, Tapu Fini, Nidoking, Fast Hydreigon: 295
Fast Genesect: 297
Max Speed Rotom Formes: 298
Fast Volcarona, Charizard, Ninetales, Entei, Zapdos, Zapdos-G, Victini: 299
Fast Landorus, Thundurus-T: 301
Max Speed Excadrill: 302
Fast Garchomp: 303
Fast Nihilego: 305
Max Speed Porygon-Z, Lilligant, Moltres-G: 306
Standard Hawlucha: 308
Fast Mienshao, Max Speed Landorus-T: 309
Max Speed Krookodile: 311
Fast Blacephalon: 313
Fast Keldeo, Terrakion: 315
Max Speed Kyurem-Black, Zygarde, Tapu Lele, Silvally Formes, Indeedee-M, Darmanitan Formes, Fast Durant, Kartana: 317
Fast Raichu formes, Latios, Latias: 319
Fast Tornadus, Thundurus: 321
Max Speed Urshifu Formes, Haxorus, Morpeko: 322
Max Speed Hydreigon: 324
Max Speed Genesect: 326
Max Speed Mew, Volcarona, Charizard, Ninetales, Entei, Zapdos, Zapdos-G, Victini: 328
Max Speed Landorus, Thundurus-T, Fast Whimsicott: 331
Max Speed Garchomp: 333
Fast Hawlucha, Max Speed Nihilego: 335
Fast Cinderace: 337
Max Speed Mienshao, Fast Alakazam: 339
Fast Naganadel: 341
Max Speed Blacephalon: 344
Max Speed Keldeo, Terrakion: 346
Max Speed Durant, Kartana: 348
Fast Weavile: 349
Max Speed Raichu Formes, Latios, Latias: 350
Fast Talonflame: 351
Max Speed Tornadus, Thundurus: 353
Scarf Fast Volcanion: 358
Fast Tapu Koko, Spectrier: 359
Max Speed Whimsicott: 364
Max Speed Hawlucha: 368
Max Speed Cinderace: 370
Max Speed Alakazam: 372
Scarf Fast Dracovish, Tapu Bulu: 373
Max Speed Naganadel: 375
Fast Dragapult, Max Speed Weavile: 383
Fast Zeraora: 385
Scarf Fast Chandelure, Regidrago, +1 Fast Blaziken: 388
Fast Accelgor: 389
Scarf Max Speed Volcanion: 393
Max Speed Tapu Koko, Spectrier: 394
Fast Pheromosa: 401
Scarf Max Speed Dracovish, Tapu Bulu: 409
Uninvested Suicune under Tailwind: 412
Scarf Fast Porygon-Z: 418
Max Speed Dragapult: 421
Max Speed Zeraora: 423
Scarf Max Speed Chandelure, Regidrago, +1 Max Speed Blaziken: 426
Max Speed Accelgor: 427
Scarf Fast Darmanitan Formes, Kyurem-Black, +1 Fast Zygarde: 433
Fast Morpeko at +1: 439
Max Speed Pheromosa: 441
Scarf Fast Hydreigon: 442
Scarf Fast Genesect: 445
Scarf Fast Charizard: 448
Scarf max speed Porygon-Z: 459
Scarf Fast Blacephalon: 469
Uninvested Zapdos under Tailwind: 472
Scarf Max Speed Darmanitan Formes, Kyurem-Black, +1 Max Speed Zygarde: 475
Swift Swim Fast Mantine, Ludicolo, Scarf Fast Latios: 478
Max Speed Morpeko at +1: 483
Scarf Max Speed Hydreigon: 486
Scarf Max Speed Genesect: 489
Scarf Max Speed Charizard, Swift swim Fast Drednaw: 494
Fast Dracovish under Tailwind/Sand Rush: 498
Fast Regieleki: 499
Fast Heatran under Tailwind: 506
Scarf Max Speed Blacephalon: 516
Chlorophyll Fast Venusaur, Fast Regidrago under Tailwind, +2 Fast Blaziken: 518
Swift Swim Max Speed Mantine, Ludicolo: 524
Max Speed Scarf Latios: 525
Swift Swim Fast Kingdra, Fast Suicune under Tailwind: 538
Swift Swim Max Speed Drednaw: 542
Max Speed Dracovish under Tailwind/Sand Rush: 546
Max Speed Regieleki: 548
Max Speed Heatran under Tailwind: 556
Chlorophyll Fast Lilligant: 558
Chlorophyll Max Speed Venusaur, Max Speed Regidrago under Tailwind, +2 Max Speed Blaziken: 568
Sand Rush Fast Excadrill: 550
Fast Darmanitan Formes under Tailwind: 578
Swift Swim Max Speed Kingdra, Max Speed Suicune under Tailwind: 590
Fast Zapdos under Tailwind: 598
Sand Rush Max Speed Excadrill: 604
Chlorophyll Max Speed Lilligant: 612
Unburden Standard Hawlucha: 616
Max Speed Darmanitan Formes under Tailwind: 634
Surge Surfer Fast Raichu-A: 638
Max Speed Zapdos under Tailwind: 656
Unburden Fast Hawlucha: 670
Surge Surfer Max Speed Raichu-A: 700
Fast Talonflame under Tailwind: 702
Unburden Max Speed Hawlucha: 736
Max Speed Talonflame under Trick Room: 772
+6 Unburden Max Speed Regieleki under Tailwind: 8767

Krytocon for leaving his homework in an easy place for me to copy
smely socks for saying that max speed moltres is 309 when it’s actually 306 and making me manually recheck every mon
turtalkatthing hello

If there's anything you feel is wrong (mons that should be bolded that aren't (You know what Vrji, I might just bold pincurchin), mons that are bolded that shouldn't be, mons not being there/at the right speed tier and even things like spelling mistakes), feel free to shout at me and tell me how wrong I am.
(Copied from kryto)

Mubs out
didnt bold pincurchin
 

Le Creme Brule

riding the wave to the land of dreams
is a Pre-Contributor
Great:

:rillaboom: Rillaboom
:kyurem-black: Kyurem-Black
:Tapu Fini: Tapu Fini
:Urshifu: Urshifu
:Genesect: Genesect
:Tornadus: Tornadus
:Zapdos: Zapdos
:Victini: Victini

Good:
:Tapu Lele: Tapu Lele
:Indeedee-F: Indeedee-F
:Kartana: Kartana
:Amoonguss: Amoonguss
:Suicune: Suicune
:Zeraora: Zeraora
:Regieleki: Regieleki
:Volcanion: Volcanion
:Diancie: Diancie
:Porygon2: Porygon2
:Entei: Entei
:Heatran: Heatran
:Volcarona: Volcarona
:Incineroar: Incineroar

Viable:

Everything else people listed I cannot be bothered to retype like 20 or 30 or idk different mons

Oh also

:Salamence: Salamence
:Pelipper: Pelipper
:Necrozma: Necrozma
 
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