-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
2v2 2v2 Doubles
- Thread starter Mubs
- Start date
In.
in 1
Heres the B03 Pools:
Pool 1:
Lancer Fr
Rhyphibian
Cantius
Pool 2:
Poison Adhesive
GeneralGunderson
D2TheW
Try to get it done in a week.
Pool 1:
Lancer Fr
Rhyphibian
Cantius
Pool 2:
Poison Adhesive
GeneralGunderson
D2TheW
Try to get it done in a week.
Cantius
I COULD BE BANNED!
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen82v2doubles-1065067943
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen82v2doubles-1065068942
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen82v2doubles-1065069541
Beat Lancer in 3. Fake Out plus a fast mon seems like the counterplay to the new legends. I will look into using Incineroar as an alternate Fake Out user; I believe it will be on par with Scrafty. KyuB is banned by being DUber.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen82v2doubles-1065068942
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen82v2doubles-1065069541
Beat Lancer in 3. Fake Out plus a fast mon seems like the counterplay to the new legends. I will look into using Incineroar as an alternate Fake Out user; I believe it will be on par with Scrafty. KyuB is banned by being DUber.
Cantius
I COULD BE BANNED!
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen82v2doubles-1065412467-j58g1ydu3dwctd8fraxdjfckwic4sxhpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen82v2doubles-1065413660
GGs to Rhyphibian. I think Melmetal/Necrozma are the more broken home additions
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen82v2doubles-1065413660
GGs to Rhyphibian. I think Melmetal/Necrozma are the more broken home additions
Here are the games with Lancer:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen82v2doubles-1065407686-a0esh6pc7853rmkyys8emke9bwzqgiopw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen82v2doubles-1065409230-o092imawoyw87ziiunvk2nilnacdxujpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen82v2doubles-1065410483-s5h0y7fc4lar9k83lo3q0byzj0z6dh9pw
After that I was kind of hoping to cause a three way tie, but alas. You ignore the meta for half a month and all the kids are using these newfangled pokeymans. ;)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen82v2doubles-1065407686-a0esh6pc7853rmkyys8emke9bwzqgiopw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen82v2doubles-1065409230-o092imawoyw87ziiunvk2nilnacdxujpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen82v2doubles-1065410483-s5h0y7fc4lar9k83lo3q0byzj0z6dh9pw
After that I was kind of hoping to cause a three way tie, but alas. You ignore the meta for half a month and all the kids are using these newfangled pokeymans. ;)
D2TheW
Amadán
Beat the General 2-0 GGs dude
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen82v2doubles-1065946185
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen82v2doubles-1065947283
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen82v2doubles-1065946185
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen82v2doubles-1065947283
Cantius vs D2TheW
Heyo. As always, thanks for playing in our playing phase. Currently, we’re working to sustain our old gens with resources, along with balancing current, which is our biggest priority. The biggest problem, I, myself see, and others have brought to my attention, is this pokemon in particular:
One cannot deny that Melmetal is amazing in the current 2v2 Doubles metagame. It's great defensive typing and physical bulk makes it hard to take down on the physical side, and it hits like a truck with its Iron Fist boosted Double Iron Bashes. Although it is weak on the special side, it synergizes well with Trick Room setters, which allows it to get the upper hand in those matchups.
The question of the matter, to me at least, is what you all think we should do pertaining to Melmetal; Quickban, Suspect, or leave it alone?
On an unrelated note, we’re looking to make more official sample teams, along with updating our Team Bazaar, because we still have Dracovish on one of the teams, so I’d appreciate it if you all could submit some teams. VR noms are also appreciated. As always, thanks for reading and have a nice day.
Heyo. As always, thanks for playing in our playing phase. Currently, we’re working to sustain our old gens with resources, along with balancing current, which is our biggest priority. The biggest problem, I, myself see, and others have brought to my attention, is this pokemon in particular:
One cannot deny that Melmetal is amazing in the current 2v2 Doubles metagame. It's great defensive typing and physical bulk makes it hard to take down on the physical side, and it hits like a truck with its Iron Fist boosted Double Iron Bashes. Although it is weak on the special side, it synergizes well with Trick Room setters, which allows it to get the upper hand in those matchups.
The question of the matter, to me at least, is what you all think we should do pertaining to Melmetal; Quickban, Suspect, or leave it alone?
On an unrelated note, we’re looking to make more official sample teams, along with updating our Team Bazaar, because we still have Dracovish on one of the teams, so I’d appreciate it if you all could submit some teams. VR noms are also appreciated. As always, thanks for reading and have a nice day.
Okay so Melmetal is just really good. Not only does it synergize really well with Trick Room setters but many other supports can also make this thing a lot more threatening and difficult to deal with. If you're using Oranguru alongside Melmetal you literally stop one of your opponent's pokemon from moving for a turn with Double Iron Bash (or nuke them with something else) unless it has Prankster. Melmetal also has good coverage through moves like Earthquake, Darkest Lariat, Thunder Punch and Ice Punch which lets it deal with a good portion of the metagame. Its high defenses also lets it tank a lot of normally strong super offensive attacks from many top damage-dealing Pokémon such as Excadrill, G-Darmanitan, and Rhyperior. I wouldn't mind this thing leaving through a quick ban as it just isn't very fun to deal with, even if there are ways to counter it.
D2TheW
Amadán
Apologies for the double post but now that we're finished with "Melmetal: The Playing Phase", I'd like to discuss the current state of the meta. Apologies if any of this is incoherent, especially near the end. As always I ended up writing this in the middle of the night so I'll just blame any errors on that.
He's back. To likely nobodies surprise, Incineroar is still very good especially given the current meta. Air Balloon Incineroar is one of the best ways to beat Melmetal and a fantastic Necrozma check to boot especially if it's specs (Necrozma can run power gem but that hits pretty much nothing else of note). It also deals handily with Garm and Indeedee/Hat. Hates Keldeo and really hates Milotic but fake out can help you circumvent that. Assault Vest with intimidate can make it very hard to OHKO
Fake out is obviously the biggest reason to use the cat along with intimidate but it has more advantages. Stab knock off is always great and flare blitz is also a great. Will-O-Wisp cripples physical attackers even further while snarl does similarly to special attackers.
It's main issue is that it competes directly with Arcanine which is another excellent Pokemon. Each has advantages over the other. Incineroar is slightly bulkier and has fake out, whilst Arcanine has recovery and better SpAtk if needed. Honestly, both are great, pick whichever suits your needs.
So after all that nomming Incineroar to tier 1.5. It's really good but it's still early days for the cat so putting it in tier 1 straight away seems hasty.
Thanks for reading. These are just my observations on post home meta and they're somewhat based off an admittedly limited playing phase so in conclusion.... Melmetal is busted, suspect that boi
As previously discussed this thing is an absolute monster. Double Iron Bash is just ridiculous and while it's coverage isn't what you'd call extensive, it covers what it needs to. EQ/High Horsepower are great for the fire types that are it's biggest threat (fighting and ground being primarily physical types, it's rarely at risk of being OHKOd). Ice punch is good for the aforementioned ground types whilst thunder punch can help it break through bulky waters that resist Bash. Darkest lariat is nice for Necrozma right now but lacks utility outside that and it's got a few fighting type options for hitting other steels and Incineroar.
As for items it's got good options in that regard. Choice band is just a killing machine and honestly your best option is just to kill it before it kills you (challenging but by no means impossible). Band is supplemented very nicely by assault vest which patches up it's special bulk at the cost of power. It doesn't get the same OHKOs but can stick around a bit longer and in certain matchups that is invaluable. These are it's best sets imo but it can run other items to good effect. Air Balloon is nice vs sand and other Melmetal, sitrus berry is good because of course it is, lefties can nice but are generally outclassed by sitrus, life orb is good for abusing it's incredible power without being choice locked (being able to protect is super nice which neither of it's main sets can), hell even occa berry can help it against those pesky fire types. Also it's obviously amazing in trick room.
Now for it's matchups against the meta. It's got a good mu vs sand especially with balloon as it destroys ttar and smacks Exca with ground coverage of choice. It can struggle with Hippo, but if you run 108 speed evs, you'll outspeed and flinches can help you break it eventually. Melmetal absolutely annihilates the Indeedee+Hat pairing though they are often paired with sun. It has good mus against Pult, Whims, ScarfGarm (band can kill on a roll but you're slow enough that it can be finished off pretty easily so I'm hard pressed to call it a winning mu), Kyurem, Terrakion(band CC is a roll to kill, nothing else can), Necrozma (heat wave stings but split damage means you're basically ok) and most things in lower tiers.
However Melmetal is not without bad mus. Incineroar and Arcanine are hard to deal with especially with balloon and sun in general is a hard mu. Rain can also overwhelm it with strong special water attacks and the classic combo of a water type with a lightningrod mon can really cause issues for band. Heattom and Washtom both matchup well and it can struggle with ferro since fighting coverage is often left out. It's also prone to being being double targeted since it's slow and specially fragile. Don't get me wrong this mon is phenomenal and is having a huge effect on the meta but I think a suspect is more in line with it's power level than a qb (though a suspect is almost certainly necessarily imo)
As for items it's got good options in that regard. Choice band is just a killing machine and honestly your best option is just to kill it before it kills you (challenging but by no means impossible). Band is supplemented very nicely by assault vest which patches up it's special bulk at the cost of power. It doesn't get the same OHKOs but can stick around a bit longer and in certain matchups that is invaluable. These are it's best sets imo but it can run other items to good effect. Air Balloon is nice vs sand and other Melmetal, sitrus berry is good because of course it is, lefties can nice but are generally outclassed by sitrus, life orb is good for abusing it's incredible power without being choice locked (being able to protect is super nice which neither of it's main sets can), hell even occa berry can help it against those pesky fire types. Also it's obviously amazing in trick room.
Now for it's matchups against the meta. It's got a good mu vs sand especially with balloon as it destroys ttar and smacks Exca with ground coverage of choice. It can struggle with Hippo, but if you run 108 speed evs, you'll outspeed and flinches can help you break it eventually. Melmetal absolutely annihilates the Indeedee+Hat pairing though they are often paired with sun. It has good mus against Pult, Whims, ScarfGarm (band can kill on a roll but you're slow enough that it can be finished off pretty easily so I'm hard pressed to call it a winning mu), Kyurem, Terrakion(band CC is a roll to kill, nothing else can), Necrozma (heat wave stings but split damage means you're basically ok) and most things in lower tiers.
However Melmetal is not without bad mus. Incineroar and Arcanine are hard to deal with especially with balloon and sun in general is a hard mu. Rain can also overwhelm it with strong special water attacks and the classic combo of a water type with a lightningrod mon can really cause issues for band. Heattom and Washtom both matchup well and it can struggle with ferro since fighting coverage is often left out. It's also prone to being being double targeted since it's slow and specially fragile. Don't get me wrong this mon is phenomenal and is having a huge effect on the meta but I think a suspect is more in line with it's power level than a qb (though a suspect is almost certainly necessarily imo)
He's back. To likely nobodies surprise, Incineroar is still very good especially given the current meta. Air Balloon Incineroar is one of the best ways to beat Melmetal and a fantastic Necrozma check to boot especially if it's specs (Necrozma can run power gem but that hits pretty much nothing else of note). It also deals handily with Garm and Indeedee/Hat. Hates Keldeo and really hates Milotic but fake out can help you circumvent that. Assault Vest with intimidate can make it very hard to OHKO
Fake out is obviously the biggest reason to use the cat along with intimidate but it has more advantages. Stab knock off is always great and flare blitz is also a great. Will-O-Wisp cripples physical attackers even further while snarl does similarly to special attackers.
It's main issue is that it competes directly with Arcanine which is another excellent Pokemon. Each has advantages over the other. Incineroar is slightly bulkier and has fake out, whilst Arcanine has recovery and better SpAtk if needed. Honestly, both are great, pick whichever suits your needs.
So after all that nomming Incineroar to tier 1.5. It's really good but it's still early days for the cat so putting it in tier 1 straight away seems hasty.
These are all gonna be short because I accidentally deleted an hour's worth of work on these mons and my sanity has worn thin.
-Zeraora: Fastest fake out in the west, good physical coverage moves and pairs well with Melmetal. It's good
-Keldeo: Also synergizes well with Melmetal. Bad coverage for the meta but honestly it hits hard enough that it doesn't matter sometimes. Preys on incineroar which is nice. Good
-Necrozma: Crazy strong, especially with Psyterrain. Life orb is better than specs or wp imo. Really good.
-Kyurem: Haven't used but seems decent from what I've seen
-Primarina: Haven't used or seen much of but on paper it's got some good mus
- Venusaur: Sun is good and this is the best sun Mon. It's good
-Zeraora: Fastest fake out in the west, good physical coverage moves and pairs well with Melmetal. It's good
-Keldeo: Also synergizes well with Melmetal. Bad coverage for the meta but honestly it hits hard enough that it doesn't matter sometimes. Preys on incineroar which is nice. Good
-Necrozma: Crazy strong, especially with Psyterrain. Life orb is better than specs or wp imo. Really good.
-Kyurem: Haven't used but seems decent from what I've seen
-Primarina: Haven't used or seen much of but on paper it's got some good mus
- Venusaur: Sun is good and this is the best sun Mon. It's good
-Sun: Sun is really good right now, taking advantage of Melmetal in particular and the fact that the new changes have made sand worse. Venusaur is also a super nice addition to sun squad.
-Rain: Still good, as always.
-Kommo-o: I really like bulky special attacking Kommo-o right now (assault vest or sitrus). It has good mus vs Melmetal, sand teams, sun teams, Incineroar, Keldeo, Ferro and appreciates Melmetal making fairies worse. Despises Necrozma but otherwise it's got a pretty good mu chart and could be worth moving to tier 2.
-Milotic: Incineroar is good and Milotic takes advantage of it in a huge way thanks to competitive. It's not a huge thing but it pairs really nicely with the myriad of things that don't like the cat.
-Hatterene: This thing needs to drop a tier. Hates Melmetal, hates Incineroar, often outclassed by Necrozma, yeah it's in a bad state rn.
-Hippowdon: Sand setter that ain't weak to Melmetal. Nice
-Excadrill: Air Balloon Exca is best Exca don't @ me
- Gyarados: Nice Melmetal+Keldeo check when paired with a lightningrod mon to stop tpunch. That pairing is pretty good so that's a valuable niche.
-Raichu: Follow me and Lightningrod are illegal together, for fuck sake, give the rat a break
-Rain: Still good, as always.
-Kommo-o: I really like bulky special attacking Kommo-o right now (assault vest or sitrus). It has good mus vs Melmetal, sand teams, sun teams, Incineroar, Keldeo, Ferro and appreciates Melmetal making fairies worse. Despises Necrozma but otherwise it's got a pretty good mu chart and could be worth moving to tier 2.
-Milotic: Incineroar is good and Milotic takes advantage of it in a huge way thanks to competitive. It's not a huge thing but it pairs really nicely with the myriad of things that don't like the cat.
-Hatterene: This thing needs to drop a tier. Hates Melmetal, hates Incineroar, often outclassed by Necrozma, yeah it's in a bad state rn.
-Hippowdon: Sand setter that ain't weak to Melmetal. Nice
-Excadrill: Air Balloon Exca is best Exca don't @ me
- Gyarados: Nice Melmetal+Keldeo check when paired with a lightningrod mon to stop tpunch. That pairing is pretty good so that's a valuable niche.
-Raichu: Follow me and Lightningrod are illegal together, for fuck sake, give the rat a break
Thanks for reading. These are just my observations on post home meta and they're somewhat based off an admittedly limited playing phase so in conclusion.... Melmetal is busted, suspect that boi
Quick news update:
Should be some news on melmetal soon.
Sample teams have been updated!
VR has been changed, Heres the changes:
VR has been changed, Heres the changes:
Melmetal: 1, Incineroar: 1.5, Torkoal: 1.5, Milotic: 3, Scrafty: 2, Hitmontop: 3, Ludicolo: 4, Zeraora: 3, Keldeo: 4, Necrozma: 3, Venusaur: 2, Charizard: 3, Raichu: 4
Should be some news on melmetal soon.
The council has decided to have Melmetal suspect tested. We will have 7 suspect tours throughout the week, at around 4 PM Eastern. The runner up and finalist get reqs, and they're double elimination. On the weekend, it will be a bit earlier. WIll edit when decided on those. The first one in an hour.
Also, the 1v1 room has given us a temporary subroom for the suspect, check it out! Make sure to send your thanks to Felucia n_n.
DezShizzels
meow
guess ill have to do this?
got reqs and got haxed in finals but w/e
got reqs and got haxed in finals but w/e
Sableye @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Disable
- Encore
- Substitute
Togekiss @ Choice Specs
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Air Slash
- Dazzling Gleam
- Fire Blast
- Grass Knot
Torkoal @ Choice Specs
Ability: Drought
EVs: 20 HP / 228 Def / 252 SpA / 8 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Overheat
- Weather Ball
- Solar Beam
- Earth Power
Zeraora @ Life Orb
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Taunt
- Fake Out
- Plasma Fists
- Close Combat
very good team
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Disable
- Encore
- Substitute
Togekiss @ Choice Specs
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Air Slash
- Dazzling Gleam
- Fire Blast
- Grass Knot
Torkoal @ Choice Specs
Ability: Drought
EVs: 20 HP / 228 Def / 252 SpA / 8 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Overheat
- Weather Ball
- Solar Beam
- Earth Power
Zeraora @ Life Orb
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Taunt
- Fake Out
- Plasma Fists
- Close Combat
very good team
anyways that post was too short so 
Holy shit this pokemon really is good with Double Iron bash/Eq/Darkest Lariat/and Thunder Punch/SuperPower.
even tho if you don't kill the fire types with EQ you really are screwed
then again TR(Trick Room) is good aswell and you can run protect on Melmetal
But really tho when I get reqs for this thing I'm Voting ban because you shouldn't have to run sun to beat this monster
Holy shit this pokemon really is good with Double Iron bash/Eq/Darkest Lariat/and Thunder Punch/SuperPower.
even tho if you don't kill the fire types with EQ you really are screwed
then again TR(Trick Room) is good aswell and you can run protect on Melmetal
But really tho when I get reqs for this thing I'm Voting ban because you shouldn't have to run sun to beat this monster
I just Love how these 4 Mons Interact(I run Sun so ik how this be)
Usually Beats with Weather Ball can go either way with Usually Loses to Sometimes Loses to EQ but wins usuallyUsually Loses to With Flare Blitz.but Sludge Bomb might kill and Earth Power Kills, Earth Power V EQ is close but Darm Wins has chances to beat ,,and but it usually loses Flare Blitz beats and and EQ beats but at the same time all of these 3 pokemon could kill it.
#1 torkoal is S+ tier and beats darmantitan and melmetal(how in the hell u think torkoal can't tank an EQ from darm or melmetal) "close but darm wins"
I just Love how these 4 Mons Interact(I run Sun so ik how this be)
but at the same time all of these 3 pokemon could kill it.
252 Atk Darmanitan Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Torkoal: 172-204 (50 - 59.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252+ SpA Torkoal Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Darmanitan: 390-460 (111.1 - 131%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Melmetal Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Torkoal: 288-340 (83.7 - 98.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Yes, torkoal can kill melmetal also.Trust me.
Only way venu beats darm is sleep powder hax, sludge bomb does shit and venu doesnt get earth power
TLDR: torkoal deserves tier 1
EDIT:I have been informed by Calem Xavier that venusaur does in fact get earth power now. That said, im pretty sure darm is faster than venu and kills with flare blitz.
Last edited by a moderator: