Abortion

[popemobile]

no one here is advocating killing, especially against babies. Aborting is not killing, and a fetus is not a baby. And this:

I actually think that if abortion remains legal they should make the woman deliver the baby and then strangle it to death. That way they can appreciate the blood on their hands.

is the dumbest thing I've read itt, and I didn't think anyone would be able to top some of the earlier posts

 

[MrIndigo]

No it isn't. No birth control is 100% effective so by relying on it you are making the choice to have sex despite the fact that you could become pregnant.

So you're saying pregnancy is a woman's punishment for having sex? Do you know what the word misogynist means?

I think a baby having parents who aren't quite ready is better than being dead.

You're mistaking "Never born" with "Dead". They are not the same thing. By the same logic, every time someone uses contraception and prevents a pregnancy, they just murdered the child that they would otherwise have had.

Because they are advocating killing babies! How is this hard to understand? I actually think that if abortion remains legal they should make the woman deliver the baby and then strangle it to death. That way they can appreciate the blood on their hands.

Because what you really believe in is emotional oppression of women. It is people who share your beliefs that try to make vulnerable women do what they tell them by trying to introduce laws that allow (or in some cases, mandate) emotional blackmail by (religious) counsellors.

They're also not advocating killing babies - they're advocating the arbortion of a foetus, that's the whole point. You're assuming your conclusion - a bundle of cells attached to the mother's bloodstream is not a baby, and neither would be, for instance, a leech surgically implanted in the womb.

Except the rapist is the one who got the woman pregnant. That's like blaming me for someone both shooting and stabbing someone. If someone attacks me and I need a new heart can I kill a baby to take his? That's about the same as killing your baby because you were raped.

No, it isn't. What? I don't even.

Except, well, I didn't. I just said that defining something as not murder because it is destroying a lump of cells that can't survive outside the mother is ridiculous.

It's not. If you define it any other way, (i.e. that killing a lump of sells is murder), then all cancer treatments are murder. In fact, every ejaculation is a genocide comparable to the holocaust because of the sheer number of sperm that die in so doing. In fact, doing anything at all to any cell carrying any human DNA (e.g. a single flake of skin) is murder.

 

[Nastyjungle]

Except the rapist is the one who got the woman pregnant. That's like blaming me for someone both shooting and stabbing someone. If someone attacks me and I need a new heart can I kill a baby to take his? That's about the same as killing your baby because you were raped.

please just stop for a moment and take a second to read what you wrote

just do me that service

 

[iDunno]

Pro-Life? More like Anti-Choice!

Seriously, if you are against early term abortion, then you 100% MUST be anti-masturbation or else you are a complete and utter hypocrite who does not deserve to state their opinion. They are essentially the same concept.

 

[PrimeMinister]

Are you truly 13? Just wondering. But anyways, what would you say if a woman was raped? Do you think she should be denied abortion?

Yes, I am 13. Is that young for smogon? I'm like, the oldest kid I know that plays pkmn.

If a woman is raped........I still think it's wrong. Abortion is cheating. Its lazy and selfish. I agree it is not fair to the woman to be forced upon a child, but you have to think. There is life inside of you. Yes, there will be unbearable financial as well as moral problems raising a forced child with no help, but you are denying a life, still.

You are cheating the world out of another life, you don't know what that baby can accomplish one day. And why? Because you don't want to deal with raising it? You are helping yourself at the cost of denying birth to something forming inside of you. What's the difference between a 5 month old fetas and a 2 month old baby? One of them is in your body.n

 

[Fishy]

No it isn't. No birth control is 100% effective so by relying on it you are making the choice to have sex despite the fact that you could become pregnant.

abstinence is 100% effective, and you can always blow your load elsewhere besides within a vagina. there's a difference between having sex irresponsibly and just being ignorant about how to avoid impregnating a girl. it's NOT that difficult.



Because they are advocating killing babies! How is this hard to understand? I actually think that if abortion remains legal they should make the woman deliver the baby and then strangle it to death. That way they can appreciate the blood on their hands.

perhaps I'm being a pedantic asshole at this point, but here's a thesaurus entry for fetus so you can stop using fetus and baby interchangeably. and if you're going to propose such a disgusting and ridiculous idea, isn't less 'suffering' dealt if a woman aborts a fetus very early instead of strangling a newborn i mean i can't even coherently respond to this what is wrong with you.


Except the rapist is the one who got the woman pregnant. That's like blaming me for someone both shooting and stabbing someone. If someone attacks me and I need a new heart can I kill a baby to take his? That's about the same as killing your baby because you were raped.

The rapist is to blaim because the woman being pregnant is directly his fault. blaming you for shooting and stabbing who now? maybe use less pronouns to make a coherent point. why should a woman be punished with a pregnancy she did not want because a man wanted to use her body for sex? are you insane? the fetus "should" have never existed in the first place, but only did because of the man's crime. how is that hard to understand?

edit: kingcharizard, maybe you can speak about this sensitive issue after you're old enough to take health in high school. as for cheating the world out of another life, people die every day. someone aborting a fetus is negligible to the rest of the population. seriously, I feel like anyone who is not so much pro-life, but so vehemently against abortion only views the subject at face value, and doesn't at all consider conventions of society, individual circumstances for women who consider abortion, etc. As for abortion being cheating…….. jesus H christ. I think I would feel cheated out of a normal life if I were raped and had to go through an abortion to get rid of an unwanted reminder of what happened to me.

 

[popemobile]

there's a reason the US doesn't allow 13 year olds to vote

 

[Nastyjungle]

If a woman is raped........I still think it's wrong. Abortion is cheating. Its lazy and selfish. I agree it is not fair to the woman to be forced upon a child, but you have to think. There is life inside of you. Yes, there will be unbearable financial as well as moral problems raising a forced child with no help, but you are denying a life, still.

yeah fuck you chick that got raped
youre cheating if you get an abortion after that
sure you may not be able to care for it or raise it to be a proper person but FUCK YOU if you cheat that rapists baby out of a chance!!!!!

 

[PrimeMinister]

@ iDunno, your question about why we'll never stop arguing--


Simple, my good sir.

We all have different opinions and thoughts. You argue to prove your ideals to be truths. But only through different minds will the world ever see change. It is up to anti abortionists to make a change.

 

[iDunno]

Abortion is healthy for the economy. If you have a baby without means of caring for it, it becomes a burden of the state. If you have a baby in high school, you will be 75% guaranteed to not go to college (successfully). Etc.

The Pro-Life argument is made up of selfish ideals...

Just saying


EDIT: Also, as soon as you say "I am entitled to my own opinion", you have pretty much doomed your arugument.

Also kingcharizard, that little poem was nice and all but it is intelligible.

 

[popemobile]

Abortion is healthy for the economy. If you have a baby without means of caring for it, it becomes a burden of the state. If you have a baby in high school, you will be 75% guaranteed to not go to college (successfully). Etc.

The Pro-Life argument is made up of selfish ideals...

Just saying

I guess it's up to the anti-lifers

 

[Spork]

Christ, can you guys stop saying that abortion is "killing babies"? It's blatantly NOT killing babies, and NOBODY is for the killing of babies. Using such violent and misleading rhetoric is extremely damaging, and with enough repetition you might force it to become truth in the minds of the stupid/gullible/young/misinformed. Ultimately, it just does not look good for your cause if you argue in such an underhanded and deceitful way, especially in a thread where the posts have at worst just been very misguided.

@kingcharizard I know you're really just learning to argue and work out exactly what you believe, but you should really be careful as you're coming off as extremely misogynistic. Women who get abortions are not lazy, and the repetition of that point just makes it very clear that you are not a sexually active adult and not a woman. And yes, you're right, the difference between baby and unborn child is that one is a part of someone's body - so you're advocating that the government ought to take ownership of the pregnant woman's body entirely away from her? Another difference is that one is NOT a baby and NOT alive.

 

[Wikey]

So you're saying pregnancy is a woman's punishment for having sex? Do you know what the word misogynist means?

No, the man is responsible too. Is it really wrong to want people to hold themselves accountable for their actions? You can't have sex and then get pregnant and then throw your hands up in the air like, "What can be done?" You are directly responsible for your situation in this instance.

You're mistaking "Never born" with "Dead". They are not the same thing. By the same logic, every time someone uses contraception and prevents a pregnancy, they just murdered the child that they would otherwise have had.

I addressed this. Sperm do not magically become babies. Ova do not magically become babies. By having sex you start a series of events that result in a baby. Yes, there's not instantly a baby, but that one action is what started the series of events. So to me a fetus is the same as a baby. @below where someone linked me to a thesaurus entry for fetus the notes say that fetus is the term for eight weeks until birth. So aborting a baby the day before delivery is okay because it is still just a fetus, right?

Because what you really believe in is emotional oppression of women. It is people who share your beliefs that try to make vulnerable women do what they tell them by trying to introduce laws that allow (or in some cases, mandate) emotional blackmail by (religious) counsellors.

Again, I'm not blaming a woman getting pregnant on the woman. It takes two. They both should be held equally responsible. And neither should have the option to abort.

They're also not advocating killing babies - they're advocating the arbortion of a foetus, that's the whole point. You're assuming your conclusion - a bundle of cells attached to the mother's bloodstream is not a baby, and neither would be, for instance, a leech surgically implanted in the womb.

No one has given me a reasonable explanation as to why there is somehow a difference.

No, it isn't. What? I don't even.

You said that by not allowing a woman an abortion after a rape I am inflicting a double penalty on the victim. I'm not inflicting anything on the woman. The rapist is.

It's not. If you define it any other way, (i.e. that killing a lump of sells is murder), then all cancer treatments are murder. In fact, every ejaculation is a genocide comparable to the holocaust because of the sheer number of sperm that die in so doing. In fact, doing anything at all to any cell carrying any human DNA (e.g. a single flake of skin) is murder.

Again. I didn't say that cancer treatments are murder. I didn't say that killing cells is murder. I didn't. I don't understand how you think I said that. I said that defining something as "not murder" because it is only destroying cells that couldn't live outside of the mother is insane. If you can't see the difference between these two statements you need to work on your reading comprehension.

No it isn't. No birth control is 100% effective so by relying on it you are making the choice to have sex despite the fact that you could become pregnant.

abstinence is 100% effective, and you can always blow your load elsewhere besides within a vagina. there's a difference between having sex irresponsibly and just being ignorant about how to avoid impregnating a girl. it's NOT that difficult.

I know! That's what I'm saying. People act like, "You need to allow abortions because having a child in high school damages your future as well as the future of the baby!" My answer is to solve that through better sex education. I don't understand how we immediately jump to keeping abortion legal when there are much better ways to solve the same problems.

Because they are advocating killing babies! How is this hard to understand? I actually think that if abortion remains legal they should make the woman deliver the baby and then strangle it to death. That way they can appreciate the blood on their hands.

perhaps I'm being a pedantic asshole at this point, but here's a thesaurus entry for fetus so you can stop using fetus and baby interchangeably. and if you're going to propose such a disgusting and ridiculous idea, isn't less 'suffering' dealt if a woman aborts a fetus very early instead of strangling a newborn i mean i can't even coherently respond to this what is wrong with you.

Again. I see absolutely no difference. Your link even says that it is a fetus up to birth. Are you advocating aborting babies a day before birth? I am saying that I see no difference between an abortion and strangling a newborn. They are equally awful. The difference is that with abortions the parents (woman AND man) can pretend it was just some medical procedure and not murder. (As an aside there were remarks made as to me being a misogynist I can see how some of my comments can be construed that way. So in this example I'll say that the father can strangle the newborn if that is what the parents want.)

Except the rapist is the one who got the woman pregnant. That's like blaming me for someone both shooting and stabbing someone. If someone attacks me and I need a new heart can I kill a baby to take his? That's about the same as killing your baby because you were raped.

The rapist is to blaim because the woman being pregnant is directly his fault. blaming you for shooting and stabbing who now? maybe use less pronouns to make a coherent point. why should a woman be punished with a pregnancy she did not want because a man wanted to use her body for sex? are you insane? the fetus "should" have never existed in the first place, but only did because of the man's crime. how is that hard to understand?

I was saying that saying that it is inflicting a penalty on a rape victim by not letting her get an abortion is like if Tom shoots Bob and then stabs Bob and you blame Tom for the gun shot wounds but you blame society for the stab wounds. Also, who gets to decide whether a baby should have or should not have existed? And why should the baby be held responsible for its father's crime. Again, a woman becoming pregnant through rape is TRAGIC. I just don't think you remedy the situation by killing a baby.

 

[Spork]

I said that defining something as "not murder" because it is only destroying cells that couldn't live outside of the mother is insane

You keep repeating this but I cannot make sense of it at all, and yes, my reading comprehension is fine. Murder is the intentional killing of another human being, you know that right? It's pretty easy to discern whether something is "not murder".

 

[Mr. Hadwick]

We just hit 7 billion people on our planet... Why the fuck are people arguing that propagation of our species is a good thing at the moment. Abort all the fucking babies!

 

[PrimeMinister]

edit: kingcharizard, maybe you can speak about this sensitive issue after you're old enough to take health in high school. as for cheating the world out of another life, people die every day. someone aborting a fetus is negligible to the rest of the population. seriously, I feel like anyone who is not so much pro-life, but so vehemently against abortion only views the subject at face value, and doesn't at all consider conventions of society, individual circumstances for women who consider abortion, etc. As for abortion being cheating…….. jesus H christ. I think I would feel cheated out of a normal life if I were raped and had to go through an abortion to get rid of an unwanted reminder of what happened to me.

How would you feel if your fetas was aborted? Oh, that's right. You wouldn't. And never in my life will I get an intelligent response to that answer. Just saying "well, I wasn't aborted, and if a child was aborted, it doesn't affect me, durrr hurrrr." won't exactly cut it. I can talk about what I want when I want. I'm not the average dumbass. And you say people die every day anyway. Well, woman gives birth approximately every seven seconds somewhere in the world. Thats 5,184,000 children a DAY. What if half of those are abortions? You just killed 2,592,000 unborn children. If that doesn't get through to you, than........

 

[Guyguypants]

Destroying cells that don't live outside the mother has two possible views.
A) It is murder
B) It is not murder

You say B is insane.

See where this is going???

 

[Spork]

No one has given me a reasonable explanation as to why there is somehow a difference.

Because a foetus has not been realised as a baby. it just hasn't. It has the potential to be a baby but it isn't. Removing the potential for existence is not the same as killing something or inducing death. So they aren't "babies", and it isn't "killing". Stop it.

 

[popemobile]

Good thing I gave up arguing because there's so much wrong with that post that I'm highly compelled to make a response to it. However, this

You said that by not allowing a woman an abortion after a rape I am inflicting a double penalty on the victim. I'm not inflicting anything on the woman. The rapist is.

what...I.........this is like saying we shouldn't allow people who have been shot to get medical treatment for whatever reason you come up with that's equally as asinine as the reasons why you support abortion, and then saying "I didn't inflict anything on the shooting victim, the shooter did."

unbelievable, I honestly cannot believe I actually read what I just did

 

[Nastyjungle]

i wanted to argue with wikey but i cant even begin to point out all of the fucked logic, information, and errors

 

[Mr. Hadwick]

Thats 5,184,000 children a DAY. What if half of those are abortions? You just killed 2,592,000 unborn children. If that doesn't get through to you, than........

YEAH BABY THIS IS WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT HIT THAT BUTTON!

Also we already went over asking someone what they'd say if they were an aborted fetus. The answer is probably something like this ".................................." because you're staring at a dumpster full of what pretty much equates to uncooked egg and then the clinic calls the security and they drag you away kicking and screaming about how you remember the first sweet taste of air you had when you were born.

 

[Spork]

I'm tackling the most ridiculous point in each post only.

 

[popemobile]

How would you feel if your fetas was aborted? Oh, that's right. You wouldn't. And never in my life will I get an intelligent response to that answer. Just saying "well, I wasn't aborted, and if a child was aborted, it doesn't affect me, durrr hurrrr." won't exactly cut it. I can talk about what I want when I want. I'm not the average dumbass. And you say people die every day anyway. Well, woman gives birth approximately every seven seconds somewhere in the world. Thats 5,184,000 children a DAY. What if half of those are abortions? You just killed 2,592,000 unborn children. If that doesn't get through to you, than........

you're absolutely right. You wouldn't feel anything from being aborted. Fetuses literally feel nothing from being aborted, no matter what stage they are at in a pregnancy. There are no thoughtwaves or pain or anything involved in the process for the fetus. Killing a fly is an infinitely greater tragedy than aborting a fetus.

 

[iDunno]

SPERM CELLS ARE PEOPLE TOO!!!!!!!

 

[Wikey]

Destroying cells that don't live outside the mother has two possible views.
A) It is murder
B) It is not murder

You say B is insane.

See where this is going???

No. Destroying some cells is not murder. Cancer, tumors, etc. Destroying a fetus is murder.

@everyone else: Falling on the good ol', "This is too stupid for me to argue." That's fine.

you're absolutely right. You wouldn't feel anything from being aborted. Fetuses literally feel nothing from being aborted, no matter what stage they are at in a pregnancy. There are no thoughtwaves or pain or anything involved in the process for the fetus. Killing a fly is an infinitely greater tragedy than aborting a fetus.

What is this, I don't even. So if I kill you in a painless way it's okay?

SPERM CELLS ARE PEOPLE TOO!!!!!!!

I addressed this. Read or don't attack me.

EDIT:

@Everyone: What is this magical thing about coming out of the womb that makes a fetus into a baby?