OU ADV OU Metagame Discussion

:tyranitar::skarmory::swampert::blissey::gengar::latias:

Latias (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 80 SpA / 176 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Recover
- Roar
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam

330 speed (faster than timid zap, etc.) not gonna fill in the other sets. the skarm has spikes though. latias helps against suicune notably, similar to something like moltres in this slot. Ttar maybe special or 4 attacks physical leftovers, swampert standard, gengar some defensive wisp set.

:skarmory::jolteon::swampert::tyranitar::gengar::latias:

Latias (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 76 HP / 252 SpA / 180 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Recover
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Ice Beam

Now it can hit steel types? I don't know, this is alternative coverage. Bit of a faster paced sand spikes build. This ttar might be dd, Gengar might be 3 attacks boom here, swampert maybe offensive or even endpert. HP grass/giga Gengar and HP grass jolteon will make this Latias more dangerous, maybe even DDgrass tar. Latias having a bit more bulk is nice here. Metagross>Swampert could work too I think.
 
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ADV Latias post time :)

:rs/latias:

Unlike the elusive Mew, the female member of the Eon Duo is much more defined in its playstyle, although she still brings some versatility to the table. Let me begin this post by reminding everyone that Latias’s Soul Dew would likely remain banned, similar to every other Generation before the item’s nerf in Gen 7. It’s just too powerful of a held item that completely changes how the Eon Duo is played.

Now that the obvious is out of the way, let’s talk about something a lot of people might not have known about. I certainly didn’t until a while back. As it turns out, Latias actually has been retested in OU already... kind of. I can’t remember when the format was available off the top of my head, but if you go into the usage stats of Pokémon Showdown’s monthly data, buried deep within the depth of time is a format labeled “gen3oulatias”, which should speak for itself. To the surprise of absolutely no one, this limited time format didn’t see too much high level action compared to standard OU. Now here’s where things get really interesting.

Stat wise, Latias is a fantastic fit for the ADV metagame. Base 110 is an incredible speed tier in Gen 3, and both of her STABs come off of her higher Special Attack, which while lower than Latios is still quite solid. Her extra defensive base stats allow her to take hits Latios can’t, and to top it all off, Levitate is an extremely good ability in Gen 3, turning the omnipresent Spikes and Dugtrio’s Arena Trap into a nonexistent issue for our friend Latias. So I was absolutely shocked to find that in a format with only a couple hundred battles per month logged if that, Latias had peaked at around 80% usage- with Soul Dew unbanned, I might add.

80%.
With Soul Dew and a perfectly optimal metagame to fit into, with winning matchups against over half of the ADV roster, no other Ubers to compete with, and assistance from Magneton for Steel trapping. That’s absolutely insane. Latias had every reason to be one of those limited-time format Pokémon to get 100% usage, or at the very least close to it. That statistic really got me thinking.

(Part 2 of this post coming later)
 

McMeghan

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We had a discussion on Discord today about the best users of Sleep Talk, where do you guys stand on the matter?

As for myself, I think the best Sleep Talkers are Pokemons that can switch into sleepers to begin with, ideally Breloom as it's the Pokemon you're sure is gonna use a Sleep move, and you don't wanna die off a missprediction. Switching into Venusaur is a plus but usually if you can do Loom, you can do Venu. Jynx is a lot harder I'd say and Gengar is also more dangerous to predict because you can't really know if it has Hypno and if it's gonna lands it.

I also believe an ideal Sleep Talker has multiple moves that are good in most situations to land. For example, while Crocune is a good Sleep Talker user for itself, it's not a good sleep absorber I'd say, as vs Offense, Suicune isn't too much of a threat with a 1/3 chance of pulling an offensive move and being outsped by many Pokemons.

The ones I've tested the most and liked were Heracross and Zapdos. Heracross has a good typing vs Loom/Venu/Blissey, gets a Guts boost, and cannot pick FP off Sleep Talk, which means you always pick one of Megahorn/Rock Slide, which kinda encapsulates everything (and Guts Megahorn hits hard most resists anyway). Zapdos also comes into Breloom/Venusaur pretty safely and can get three consistent rolls between Tbolt/HP/Roar while still pulling its weight consistently with these three moves alone.

Two Pokemons I've entertained to be good with Sleep Talkers but haven't tried yet are Moltres and Salamence. I've tried Metagross, which works quite well honestly but you'll have games where you Sleep Talk Boom and the opponent's sleepers hasn't been picked off so you're back to square 1.
 
Honestly, one I really like that is hard to fit is Articuno. Ice Beam, Roar, Sleep Talk and Rest. Walls Jynx, Smacks Breloom. Gengar can TB for heavy damage yes but Ice beam back is pretty nice. I been having a hard time trying to fit it on a team though. Really wanna make a good Cuno Team. But Its x4 Rock Weakness is really brutal. Of course, a stray Fighting move from Breloom to Cuno hurts but it nos death. So ye, I like Articuno. Hard to build with would love advice but I think its a good sleep absorber for Jynx, Breloom, Vensaur at least with losing match up to Gengar.
 
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Latias does have refresh so one possible set is recover/refresh/roar/dragon claw, working as a shuffler on heavy spikes teams similar to something like zapdos, sacrificing some spat for better special bulk, instant recovery, and versatility
 
We had a discussion on Discord today about the best users of Sleep Talk, where do you guys stand on the matter?

As for myself, I think the best Sleep Talkers are Pokemons that can switch into sleepers to begin with, ideally Breloom as it's the Pokemon you're sure is gonna use a Sleep move, and you don't wanna die off a missprediction. Switching into Venusaur is a plus but usually if you can do Loom, you can do Venu. Jynx is a lot harder I'd say and Gengar is also more dangerous to predict because you can't really know if it has Hypno and if it's gonna lands it.

I also believe an ideal Sleep Talker has multiple moves that are good in most situations to land. For example, while Crocune is a good Sleep Talker user for itself, it's not a good sleep absorber I'd say, as vs Offense, Suicune isn't too much of a threat with a 1/3 chance of pulling an offensive move and being outsped by many Pokemons.

The ones I've tested the most and liked were Heracross and Zapdos. Heracross has a good typing vs Loom/Venu/Blissey, gets a Guts boost, and cannot pick FP off Sleep Talk, which means you always pick one of Megahorn/Rock Slide, which kinda encapsulates everything (and Guts Megahorn hits hard most resists anyway). Zapdos also comes into Breloom/Venusaur pretty safely and can get three consistent rolls between Tbolt/HP/Roar while still pulling its weight consistently with these three moves alone.

Two Pokemons I've entertained to be good with Sleep Talkers but haven't tried yet are Moltres and Salamence. I've tried Metagross, which works quite well honestly but you'll have games where you Sleep Talk Boom and the opponent's sleepers hasn't been picked off so you're back to square 1.
A little while ago I built a Physical Offence team with a Choice Band Gyarados, and figured that Sleep Talk is a good 4th move as Gyarados can check Breloom quite effectively and actually become a status absorber from coming in to take a Spore:

gyarados.png

Gyarados @ Choice Band
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 68 HP / 252 Atk / 188 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Flying]
- Double-Edge
- Sleep Talk

I can see this being similar to running Sleep Talk Salamence, but since the team already had Mence fulfilling a DD sweeping set I figured that Gyarados could get some surprise extra damage onto the likes of Zapdos, Aerodactyls and Suicunes being used to check it.

Gyarados doesn't have a huge amount of options for a 4th move on a Choice Band set anyway, but it does fit rather well all things considered.
 

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