Regarding item choice on him: Obviously Life Orb is out of the question. But I still feel like being choiced into something is just going to mean more switching, which makes it even more difficult to switch him back in. What items could possibly be effective on him without setting him up to be even more dead?
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Archeops
- Thread starter Elliot Gale
- Start date
It will just switch out, and then you will have to take SR damage switching back in again. "Kill whatever killed it" is a job better suited to scarf Shanderaa.
I'm thinking either Choice Scarf lead (Uturn off of peoples' Sashes), Choice Band wallbreaker, or LO Revenge killer w/Roost. I think we're very much looking at a solid OU with some necessary support. At the very least, it has good offensive typing, unlike Slaking or Regigigas.
If you pair it with Sandstream, and possibly Toxic Spikes, it should be fine as the boost in SpD. and residual damage will add up. Perhaps even using Protect will aid in stalling out damage until it can use a KO move without risk of being KOed.
In multi-battles Gastro Acid, Worry Seed, and Skill Swap has a new use, being able to keep this bird from losing its power.
In multi-battles Gastro Acid, Worry Seed, and Skill Swap has a new use, being able to keep this bird from losing its power.
@Syberia: Really? Shanderaa might be perfect at killing what it can kill, but that spectrum seems much more narrow when you only have 80 base speed.
For example.
You're fighting a Heatran and your pokemon dies. Now, do you want to switch Shanderaa in? No, because Heatran's still going to outrun and OHKO you with earth power first. Oh boy, you're choice scarfed! Now what? Well, guess I'll use one of my STAB's on him. Owait, he laughs at them!
Shanderaa's not always gonna get the job done, and what if the thing that killed you has way too much Sp. Def for Shanderaa to reliably take care of it?
Shanderaa seems like a great revenge killer but that doesn't mean Archaeos can't be too. Different teams will obviously have different counters, and therefore different things that need to be killed off. The choice between revenge killers relies on that difference.
For example.
You're fighting a Heatran and your pokemon dies. Now, do you want to switch Shanderaa in? No, because Heatran's still going to outrun and OHKO you with earth power first. Oh boy, you're choice scarfed! Now what? Well, guess I'll use one of my STAB's on him. Owait, he laughs at them!
Shanderaa's not always gonna get the job done, and what if the thing that killed you has way too much Sp. Def for Shanderaa to reliably take care of it?
Shanderaa seems like a great revenge killer but that doesn't mean Archaeos can't be too. Different teams will obviously have different counters, and therefore different things that need to be killed off. The choice between revenge killers relies on that difference.
for the record, shanderaa outspeeds tran by three points, but thats kinda off topic.
Im still not sure w/ this pokemon. I think it ends up middle ou at best to BL at worst, but we'll need to test for sure.
Im still not sure w/ this pokemon. I think it ends up middle ou at best to BL at worst, but we'll need to test for sure.
I don't think Archaeos would ever end up below BL. People with more power have landed there (or lower) before *coughcoughRampardosRhyperiorcoughcough*, but I feel like his combination of speed and power would make him a bit much to handle in lower tiers. The only question is just how useful he'll be in standard. As I've stated, I expect he'll be able to hold his own.doomvendingmachine said:
If he doesn't get a different English name, I'm gonna slip up and say Arceus instead of Archaeos a lot...
BL isnt a lower tier, its really an banlist for pokemon not used enough for ou, but too overpowered for uu. And thinking about it more, it probably wont be BL either. That combo of power and speed will be too aluring. Hell, if vire was ou this gen, no matter how good or crappy he turns out to be Archaeos will be ou next.
Sorry if I wasn't clear. I know how BL works, that's why I was saying he'd never be lower. When I said "landed there" I meant UU or lower. Even if everyone in Standard play decided never to use him, I feel he would be way too good for UU, and would thus have to be BL. But I agree with you. He has too much going for him to not be at least reasonably popular and a solid poke.
Hmm its got nice stat distribution. Its likely going to be a really nice Glass Cannon (probably a more effective one when compared with stuff like Rampardos. Nice end game cleaner and he will work really well with U-turn which will let you scout your opponents team better
Archaeous will probably function best without an item, actually, and for this reason: Acrobat.
This is the Flying move that doubles power when your Pokemon has no item. It's Base power is 55, so naturally without an item, Archaeos has access to a 110 BP STAB Flying move to complement Stone Edge.
Btw. this really wishes Roost were a TM again (not getting it in Breed Moves is a huge troll.)
I'm not sure how much of a chance Archaos will actually get to boost, but this is the tentative boosting set.
Archaeos @ No Item.
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 SpA (or Def)
Naive/Jolly nature
~ Acrobat
~ Stone Edge
~ Claw Sharpen / Earthquake
~ Focus Blast / Crunch
Without an item, Acrobat has a STAB adjusted 165 BP and 100 acc. This hits harder than many of its super-effective filler moves. Now, Claw Sharpen is where it gets interesting. If you can pull it off without some priority user switching in, it makes the rest of the set sing. Focus Blast gets an accuracy boost making it a viable offensive option against Steel types and proving the excellent Fighting/Flying coverage that made Staraptor a threat last generation. Since Archaoes doesn't have a Fire move, it's also its best possible attack (outside HP Fire) for addressing Skarmory and friends. Claw Sharpen's benefits to Stone Edge are obvious. turning Archaos into quite a powerful force.
However if Archaeos turns out to be a little too susceptible to priority to stat-up, just use 4 attacks. It's special movepool simply isn't that great.
This is the Flying move that doubles power when your Pokemon has no item. It's Base power is 55, so naturally without an item, Archaeos has access to a 110 BP STAB Flying move to complement Stone Edge.
Btw. this really wishes Roost were a TM again (not getting it in Breed Moves is a huge troll.)
I'm not sure how much of a chance Archaos will actually get to boost, but this is the tentative boosting set.
Archaeos @ No Item.
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 SpA (or Def)
Naive/Jolly nature
~ Acrobat
~ Stone Edge
~ Claw Sharpen / Earthquake
~ Focus Blast / Crunch
Without an item, Acrobat has a STAB adjusted 165 BP and 100 acc. This hits harder than many of its super-effective filler moves. Now, Claw Sharpen is where it gets interesting. If you can pull it off without some priority user switching in, it makes the rest of the set sing. Focus Blast gets an accuracy boost making it a viable offensive option against Steel types and proving the excellent Fighting/Flying coverage that made Staraptor a threat last generation. Since Archaoes doesn't have a Fire move, it's also its best possible attack (outside HP Fire) for addressing Skarmory and friends. Claw Sharpen's benefits to Stone Edge are obvious. turning Archaos into quite a powerful force.
However if Archaeos turns out to be a little too susceptible to priority to stat-up, just use 4 attacks. It's special movepool simply isn't that great.
i'm tempted to say that this thing will suffer from Heracross syndrome - it'll certainly be seen as a ridiculously powerful piece of shit when the metagame is first developing (judging by this thread, it's getting mixed reactions, but everyone will want to test it out when they get the chance). but really, if the metagame centralizes around it (which would most likely be in the form of stealth rock and priority everywhere) it won't be able to do anything. it does have that nice base 112 SAtk for surprise factor, but it can only switch in twice to stealth rock before it's crippled beyond belief and short of getting a wish sent to it can't do anything about it.
then again i can see this thing going either way so who knows.
then again i can see this thing going either way so who knows.
It's not powerful enough to warrant centralization IMO. But that's why it's powerful. It's not the kind of pokemon you'll slap on every team like Scizor or Salamence, but rather it will be an integral part of some successful teams and a very useful pokemon overall. Definitely OU but I'm sure it won't be top.
It's so cool though. u___u
It's so cool though. u___u
Meh i still think it will be ou. Somewhere between middle ou and "where the evire things are" ou.
Jesus christ what exactly is roost helping it do? It gives it a ground AND fighting weakness and it's not like he'll be able to take a hit while roosting... or before.
Does Gengar get roost?
Infernape gets slack off but who the hell uses that?
And Archaeos is just as fast as Gengar too. With higher Attack than Gengar's SpAttk and well... to an even greater extreme vice versa.
Does Gengar get roost?
Infernape gets slack off but who the hell uses that?
And Archaeos is just as fast as Gengar too. With higher Attack than Gengar's SpAttk and well... to an even greater extreme vice versa.
Roost is helping to keep it in the game. Gengar and Infernape neither have Weak-Kneed nor a Stealth Rock weakness. Nerf abilities have a known history of destroying otherwise useful Pokemon and Gamefreak doesn't seem to think there's anything wrong with taking away any tool they could possibly have to alleviate it.
like moltres in uu, roost lets it regain heath on something that it forces out. It trades a hit on an incoming counter for longengevity. A good trade, imo.
You do know that it's ability halves it's stats when it's bellow 50% of it's HP, right?
Perfect for Blaziken to Baton Pass Speed (and Attack).
Kojo takes Flying, Ground attacks. It can be passed a Swords Dance and Speed boost just as the foe uses EQ, or Ninjask can too. If this is done, similar to Wobbafett allowing for Set-up in Ubers, he could sweep. Baton Pass could make it potent.
Kojo takes Flying, Ground attacks. It can be passed a Swords Dance and Speed boost just as the foe uses EQ, or Ninjask can too. If this is done, similar to Wobbafett allowing for Set-up in Ubers, he could sweep. Baton Pass could make it potent.
I dunno. I still feel like he won't miss Roost too much. He's so frail anyway, I just imagine that he'd Roost himself back to over half only to get killed by the next attack anyway. And that's to say nothing of the fact that when he'd be in need of Roosting, he'd be too slow due to his ability kicking in.
I really liked the idea someone brought up of going item-less and using Acrobat as a strong, reliable STAB.
I really liked the idea someone brought up of going item-less and using Acrobat as a strong, reliable STAB.
use defog, remove stealth rock.
either uturn once you see something you can't kill, or switch out if you smell priority attack.
scizor is kept at bay by shandaara anyway
either uturn once you see something you can't kill, or switch out if you smell priority attack.
scizor is kept at bay by shandaara anyway