Pokémon Avalugg

[Bughouse]

This thing has quite a lot of problems in terms of how its bulk is allocated and how that pairs with its typing. The combination makes finding helpful teammates rather difficult. I think you would probably need to run a 3-mon defensive core of Avalugg + Blissey/Chansey + Sylveon or something along those lines. No 2-mon core is gonna cut it, which is a big reason why Avalugg won't crack OU.

 

[Bummer]

If you wanted an Ice special tank, you could just go with Regice. Granted, it wouldn't have Rapid Spin or instant Recover, but no two pokemon are the same. Come to think of it, Assault Vest on Regice could make it even better, but that's a different discussion.

But yeah, being able to spin and tank physical hits seems to be Avalugg's destiny, at least with our current knowledge. I suppose it could attempt a Curse set once all special opponents are taken care of, or attempt its own RestTalk set with Avalanche / Curse / Sleep Talk / Rest, but trying to patch up its abysmal Sp.Def with Assault vest will only result in a mon that fails to wall both attack types.

 

[Bughouse]

Jellicent is immune to fighting, resists steel and fire and threatens virtually anything that runs rock-type attacks with Scald. Plus it has high special defense to complement Avalugg's physical bulk.

So you're gonna switch a Jellicent in on Gengar? What about a Rotom-W? Or a Thundurus-T? Or a Latios? I could go on and on with the list of special attackers that Jellicent (even 252/220+ SpDef) can't switch into. It's way too easy to wallbreak AvaCent as a core.

 

[Princess Bubblegum]

Just want to chime in to say that not being able to form a "core" around a Pokemon doesn't make it bad. First off the notion of cores is rather an arbitrary one that we make up our selfs, and I know there have been quite a few people who think newer players though take their focus off cores and look for make actual teams instead of disjointed cores. I can see this Pokemon possibly being quite effective with a full team of support around it, to support it, and for it to support them.

 

[GRs Cousin]

So I'm wondering what potential this thing has with Weakness Policy. Weakness Policy doubles its Attack and Special Attack if it's hit by a super effective move. Considering Rock, Steel, and Fighting are all commonly physical moves, one could switch Avalugg into such a move and proceed to hit things like a truck.

Avalugg @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Avalanche
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Recover

Through a set like this, Avalugg comes in with 732 attack and plenty of health to spare with its mammoth physical bulk. You're then presented with the options to either hit things hard or heal off the damage you took, depending on whether or not you predict a switch. At full health, Avalugg can take advantage of Sturdy and will get in at least one hit on the opponent. Avalanche will hit harder than a +2 Earthquake from Garchomp after factoring in STAB and 120 BP, meaning anything without a ton of physical bulk of its own is going to have a chunk of health taken out if not outright KO'd. Earthquake and Stone Edge round out the rest of its coverage perfectly.

It sounds gimmicky and requires decent prediction, but I think it's at least worth a try to see what that type of power it can provide.

 

[Princess Bubblegum]

Honestly, you should be better off with a Choice Band, trying to fish for a super effective hit likely isn't the best idea, the only thing off the top of my head it might be useful against are fighting types which you really should have something else for.

 

[GRs Cousin]

Choice Band doesn't let you function as one of the immediately most tankish Pokemon in the game, however. The main niche to Weakness Policy Avalugg is having a larger attack boost than Choice Band whilst still having access to a form of recovery and coverage moves. Again, it's far from perfect, but certainly has appeal.

 

[alexwolf]

Choice Band and Weakness Policy won't be any good on Avalugg. Don't forget that this Pokemon's niche is Recover + Rapid Spin + huge physical bulk. Take away any of that and you have a completely outclassed Pokemon.

With the news that Defog is now an unblockable Rapid Spin on both sides, Avalugg's future in the OU metagame is not looking good. Now, if you want a physical wall that can get rid of hazards and has reliable recovery, you have Gliscor and Skarmory, Pokemon with actually good defensive typing, access to entry hazards, usable or good Speed, and even with useful pivoting moves (U-turn on Gliscor). The only use of Avalugg over Gliscor and Skarmory now is if your team is overly dependent on you own hazards and using Defog isn't an option. Maybe this will be a role that a few stall teams would appreciate?

 

[Kejmur]

Choice Band and Weakness Policy won't be any good on Avalugg. Don't forget that this Pokemon's niche is Recover + Rapid Spin + huge physical bulk. Take away any of that and you have a completely outclassed Pokemon.

With the news that Defog is now an unblockable Rapid Spin on both sides, Avalugg's future in the OU metagame is not looking good. Now, if you want a physical wall that can get rid of hazards and has reliable recovery, you have Gliscor and Skarmory, Pokemon with actually good defensive typing, access to entry hazards, usable or good Speed, and even with useful pivoting moves (U-turn on Gliscor). The only use of Avalugg over Gliscor and Skarmory now is if your team is overly dependent on you own hazards and using Defog isn't an option. Maybe this will be a role that a few stall teams would appreciate?

Well instead of using him like a spinner (which IMO is not the best pick for it, just dedicate your other team slot for it), just use him as generic physical wall. Avalugg's physical bulk is something that Gliscor and Skarmory can only dream of, although I admit that their defensive typings are superior. I would say that much less common SR on field means that suddenly he can wall and beat dragons which he couldn't before (Haxorus, Garchomp, Kyurem-B), which Skarmory and Gliscor may struggle depending on move choices those dragons make. Also Avalugg is technically 100% Mamoswine counter, something that many defensive teams hate as hell unless they run Bronzong (and Skarmory + Gliscor struggle taking those Icicle Crushes). His niche is specific, but it's a good one. His ability to take on Mamoswine + Physical Dragons is technically unmatched, something that heavy stall teams don't like. And I may also need to add that Avalugg is one of those Pokemon which can beat new Defog Crobat one of one with STAB Avalanche (watch on on random Heat waves though), something that new stall teams will hate for sure. He won't be popular anyway (and he wouldn't be with SR being more reliable as well anyway, let's face it, his flaws are big), but I would say his main niche is even better now without SR crippling him really badly.

 

[alexwolf]

Well instead of using him like a spinner (which IMO is not the best pick for it, just dedicate your other team slot for it), just use him as generic physical wall. Avalugg's physical bulk is something that Gliscor and Skarmory can only dream of, although I admit that their defensive typings are superior. I would say that much less common SR on field means that suddenly he can wall and beat dragons which he couldn't before (Haxorus, Garchomp, Kyurem-B), which Skarmory and Gliscor may struggle depending on move choices those dragons make. Also Avalugg is technically 100% Mamoswine counter, something that many defensive teams hate as hell unless they run Bronzong (and Skarmory + Gliscor struggle taking those Icicle Crushes). His niche is specific, but it's a good one. His ability to take on Mamoswine + Physical Dragons is technically unmatched, something that heavy stall teams don't like. And I may also need to add that Avalugg is one of those Pokemon which can beat new Defog Crobat one of one with STAB Avalanche (watch on on random Heat waves though), something that new stall teams will hate for sure. He won't be popular anyway (and he wouldn't be with SR being more reliable as well anyway, let's face it, his flaws are big), but I would say his main niche is even better now without SR crippling him really badly.

Many physical Dragon-types can get past Avalugg easily; Salamence and Garchomp with Fire Blast, Kyurem-B with Earth Power. There are much better Pokemon when it comes to dealing with physical Dragon-types, such as Togekiss or Cresselia. Cresselia can even counter the combo of physical Dragons + Mamoswine that you mentioned. Without Rapid Spin you can't justify using this Pokemon in OU, at least not for competitive reasons.

 

[anubite]

Avalugg is NU material. Having no SpD with its typing means even with its excessive physical defense it won't be able to wall anything. It might have a niche as a trick room spinner, but Hitmontop pretty much has that covered.

 

[lmitchell0012]

He will fit in quite well with trick room teams. His speed is worse than slowbro, and he does get gyro ball, so I imagine he'll be hitting pretty hard with it. However, he has a very limited physical movepool. He'll be using pretty much the exact same set every time, possibly switching out a physical move for something like recover, rapid spin or curse.

 

[Bobviapineapple]

I think guys we all forget that for some people it doesn't matter what 'tier' it is put in. There are plenty of cases where pokemon who were put in lower tiers still made some siting in OU games, simply because they made a good, unpredictable counter to some common OU pokemon. We essentially have ourselves an Aggron here, but with no x4 weaknesses and access to recovery. This alone should put him in a higher tier than Aggron. But what about the movepool, you might say? Well, Avalugg already has a deeper movepool that provides much higher coverage to different types than aggron has. Sure, aggron might have his rock head niche, but this one perk compared to all the perks avalugg has over aggron doesn't quite make it. I don't think avalugg will be an OU pokemon. But I think he's going to be too handy to only be seen in NU.

 

[GDK]

I think guys we all forget that for some people it doesn't matter what 'tier' it is put in. There are plenty of cases where pokemon who were put in lower tiers still made some siting in OU games, simply because they made a good, unpredictable counter to some common OU pokemon. We essentially have ourselves an Aggron here, but with no x4 weaknesses and access to recovery. This alone should put him in a higher tier than Aggron. But what about the movepool, you might say? Well, Avalugg already has a deeper movepool that provides much higher coverage to different types than aggron has. Sure, aggron might have his rock head niche, but this one perk compared to all the perks avalugg has over aggron doesn't quite make it. I don't think avalugg will be an OU pokemon. But I think he's going to be too handy to only be seen in NU.

Aggron has a mega.

 

[El_Sargento]

Mmm... How a Careful/Sassy nature (and a lot of SpD Ivs) can help this guy?

It has overkill defense, Curse AND Recover...
Bold Blissey was a thing before, you know...

 

[deluge]

This is one of the few things I could see using Amnesia so I checked for it as an egg move but it doesn't learn it.
Most of Ice's weaknesses are more commonly physical (except for Fire) and it already has that crazy physical bulk + Recover.
But GF has made sure that there is no way to mitigate its weakness on the Special side.

Still, with a decent HP stat and SpD investment it may be able to take neutral Special attacks.
It has decent attack and good coverage moves too: a powerful Gyroball as well as Earthquake/Stone Edge to make Rocks, Fires and Steels think twice.
I don't think there would be much reason to use him over, say, Hippowdown in OU but he could be a useful tank elsewhere.

 

[Alopex]

Sad fact is, GF hates the Ice type. This Gen has made it rather clear.

- Ice is now the rarest of all the types, if you include MegaEvos and exclude non-type-changing Formes, with only 35 Pokemon. Fairy and Ghost are at 36, and Dragon is at 41. When these guys get released, it'll be two more on top of that for Fairy and Ghost.
- The type chart. Nuff said.
- No buff to Hail, and the terrain moves released all outclass Hail in benefit to their respective types, just like all the other weathers do as well. So they know how to make these effects good and simply haven't bothered to do anything with Hail.
- Only 2 abilities benefit from Hail, the least of all weathers: both are defensively oriented, with one of them usually being banned anyway. Sand got 2 new ones last gen, Hail got zero. And before they introduced better Hail abilities, they introduced a Grass terrain ability that is miles better than any Hail ability for its respective type...
- 6 Gens in, and freezing opponents is still impossible, making Ice's only useful type trait STILL entirely pointless.
- Vanilluxe

At least Aurorus has great design... poor Avalugg *sigh*.

 

[tikidude]

I was hoping that GF would actually buff the ice type this gen. Especially since all the Pokémon reps said that they were trying to balance the game. Seriously, 4 weaknesses and only 1 resist? Horrid. I can see Avalugg functioning in OU though, with Error3130's set. With the nerf to critical hits, not much is going to muscle past this guy (on the physical side) after a boost. However, that's about all I can see it running. There isn't really a point in wasting a moveslot on Rapid Spin when the Poké is weak to Stealth Rock and hit by all other hazards. Now if it could absorb Toxic Spikes...that would be different.

Aurorus is cool...but Avalugg is an iceberg.

 

[Josh Morales]

Avalugg and Florges are THE BEST DEFENSIVE CORE ON A TEAM IN THE GAME.

Watch this amazing comeback from nothing but amazing special AND physical walling from my Florges and Avalugg.

http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/pokebankoubeta-58579366

By far the best Avalugg set is this:
Avalugg Leftovers
Ability: Ice Body(put him on a team with Mega Abomasnow, seriously, try it)
Sturdy works too if you want Avalugg to be able to use roar on special sweepers too but that requires you to go on 1 hp, which eliminates your walling potential for the rest of the game.
Nature: Impish
252 EVs in HP and Def
4 EVs in Att
Move set:
Rapid Spin
Just switch in on a physical attacker and rapid spin. garunteed rapid spin, no chance of death.
Recover
wall physical attacker's like it doesn't even matter. Oh, they do super effective damage to my ice typing? Do you think I care? I'm Avalugg.
Avalanche
Take advantage of your disgusting speed with a 120 power STAB move from base 117 attack with ice typing, which has tons of strengths, most notably against dragons.
Roar
Deny pretty much any physical sweeper by walling its damage, then eliminating it's boosts with a roar by forcing it out.


Use this set with mixed attacking Mega Abomasnow and special wall Florges. DO IT NOW. It doesn't matter if your own team loses health from the hail, so do they and the walling effectiveness of Avalugg skyrockets to ridiculous and almost an excessive extent.

 

[Garchompi]

Wow, Avalugg took those SE Superpowers, Rock Slides and Bullet Punches like a champ. This is why stats matter more than type!
Everyone in this thread so far acted like being an ice type means SE physical attacks would OHKO or 2HKO it, but with Leftovers Scizor's CB Bullet Punch was barely a 5HKO (!) at best so this changes everything.
Oh, and that battle made me realize how useful Roar is on this guy.

 

[ImperialWrath]

Sad fact is, GF hates the Ice type. This Gen has made it rather clear.

- Ice is now the rarest of all the types, if you include MegaEvos and exclude non-type-changing Formes, with only 35 Pokemon. Fairy and Ghost are at 36, and Dragon is at 41. When these guys get released, it'll be two more on top of that for Fairy and Ghost.
- The type chart. Nuff said.
- No buff to Hail, and the terrain moves released all outclass Hail in benefit to their respective types, just like all the other weathers do as well. So they know how to make these effects good and simply haven't bothered to do anything with Hail.
- Only 2 abilities benefit from Hail, the least of all weathers: both are defensively oriented, with one of them usually being banned anyway. Sand got 2 new ones last gen, Hail got zero. And before they introduced better Hail abilities, they introduced a Grass terrain ability that is miles better than any Hail ability for its respective type...
- 6 Gens in, and freezing opponents is still impossible, making Ice's only useful type trait STILL entirely pointless.
- Vanilluxe

At least Aurorus has great design... poor Avalugg *sigh*.

Wow, and I was thinking Dark has it bad. At least that type gained a hit on Steel and has some useful resistances like Ghost.
Ice has NOTHING.
A blanket Sp. Atk or Speed boost seems like the most logical Weather-based buff Ice types should receive in Hail, the former as a perfect foil to Rocks in Sand and the latter for Ice-types being more adapted to movement on snowy terrain... neither of would help Avalugg in any way.
Flavor-wise, I'm not even sure why this thing doesn't have a Special Defense stat in the 70-100 range. Or a physical variant of Freeze Dry...

 

[CS3]

good battle with that Avalugg Josh

I can see a lot of utility in using avalugg, the largest weakness of Avalugg will be its lack of flexibility. This think can take physical hits all day, hit back with some nice avalanches, and then spin away hazards (if you're going to use him, why not have RS? he's already taking the damage from the hazards anyway, so might as well have the tool to remove them). using Avalugg will come down to preventing it from taking special shots, which shouldn't be too hard to do, just keep in mind that mega Gengar really loves to see this guy.

 

[Garchompi]

Avalugg has Roar so it's not setup bait (but unfortunately it's still Taunt bait) and if you're running Sturdy it can take a hit from Gengar and hit back with Avalanche (you need to use Recover on the switch if it took damage though).
Also keep in mind that if Gengar has yet to mega-evolve Avalugg won't be trapped on that turn.

 

[Alopex]

Wow, Avalugg took those SE Superpowers, Rock Slides and Bullet Punches like a champ. This is why stats matter more than type!
Everyone in this thread so far acted like being an ice type means SE physical attacks would OHKO or 2HKO it, but with Leftovers Scizor's CB Bullet Punch was barely a 5HKO (!) at best so this changes everything.
Oh, and that battle made me realize how useful Roar is on this guy.

Maybe.

Honestly, though, it's not the stats that are making Avalugg more than straight-NU-bait, it's the movepool. Avaluggs stats are nowhere near as impressive as the Regis, with equally bad defensive typing. But Avalugg gets Recover. Also Rapid Spin. And Roar. The Regis can't compete with that. So maybe you're right that we're underestimating Avalugg. I sure hope we are, cause he's a pretty cool dude. We'll just have to see. I am curious to know how well he takes a Flare Blitz, a Stone Edge, and a Close Combat first, though... cause those are important physical SE moves that might destroy his hopes.

 

[Soda]

Avalugg and Florges are THE BEST DEFENSIVE CORE ON A TEAM IN THE GAME.

Watch this amazing comeback from nothing but amazing special AND physical walling from my Florges and Avalugg.

http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/pokebankoubeta-58579366

By far the best Avalugg set is this:
Avalugg Leftovers
Ability: Ice Body(put him on a team with Mega Abomasnow, seriously, try it)
Sturdy works too if you want Avalugg to be able to use roar on special sweepers too but that requires you to go on 1 hp, which eliminates your walling potential for the rest of the game.
Nature: Impish
252 EVs in HP and Def
4 EVs in Att
Move set:
Rapid Spin
Just switch in on a physical attacker and rapid spin. garunteed rapid spin, no chance of death.
Recover
wall physical attacker's like it doesn't even matter. Oh, they do super effective damage to my ice typing? Do you think I care? I'm Avalugg.
Avalanche
Take advantage of your disgusting speed with a 120 power STAB move from base 117 attack with ice typing, which has tons of strengths, most notably against dragons.
Roar
Deny pretty much any physical sweeper by walling its damage, then eliminating it's boosts with a roar by forcing it out.


Use this set with mixed attacking Mega Abomasnow and special wall Florges. DO IT NOW. It doesn't matter if your own team loses health from the hail, so do they and the walling effectiveness of Avalugg skyrockets to ridiculous and almost an excessive extent.

Wow he took those attacks like a total champ! To be fair, they were all relatively low BP. Still, that makes Weakness Policy seem insanely good on him. He could easily get a +2 boost without much trouble. Thank Arceus GF gave this guy Recover.