BH Balanced Hackmons

[willdbeast]

Since this is the first time in forever I've not been caught up in a BH tourney here's just some random things I think are cool

Kartana @ Choice Band
Ability: Corrosion
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sunsteel Strike
- Toxic
- Glacial Lance
- Bolt Beak

Quite nice for luring in Fur Coat steels to poison them. I paired this with a merciless Calyrex-S but that's rip. I improofed it with a PH Rotom-Heat but Rotom-Heat is absolutely useless so don't do that use PH reshiram or magic bounce magneton or something.

Kartana @ Life Orb
Ability: Triage
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Drain Punch
- Glacial Lance
- Horn Leech / Filler

I hadn't seen Kartana used much around OMWC time so I suggested this to GL Volkner when talking to him about his prep, I think it was specifically vs someone who doesn't use Imposter much which makes it especially good - though he didn't use it in the end. The main idea was it just punches through most Prankster mons, and at +6 Glacial Lance kills most slower mons even if they are Fur Coat.
+6 252+ Atk Life Orb Kartana Glacial Lance vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Palkia: 374-441 (97.3 - 114.8%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
+6 252+ Atk Life Orb Kartana Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Zamazenta-Crowned: 333-393 (85.8 - 101.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
+6 252+ Atk Life Orb Kartana Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Kartana: 782-923 (109.5 - 129.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO [Vs. Imposter Blissey or similar vs non-evio Chansey, so you can force a speed tie or win if they are para]

Prank tina and some random fc/unware mons wall it tho.

Regieleki @ Life Orb
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Spore
- Swords Dance
- Bolt Beak
- Glacial Lance

Sleep goes Brrrrrrr

Reshiram @ Choice Band
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- V-create
- Dragon Energy
- U-turn
- Trick

I used this on a sun team to abuse the fact that most people expect a special reshiram but v-create still hits like a truck. Basically all the moves are optional except V-create + special dragon move.

Coalossal @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Lava Plume / Topsy Turvy?
- Anchor Shot
- Leech Seed / Topsy Turvy?
- Icicle Spear / Glacial Lance / Topsy Turvy?

The idea behind this is that it traps and beats some regigigas and xern sets and beats toxic orb imposter and being annoying in general. It really needs Topsy though I just didn't know what to give up. Getting ohkoed by earthpower or pblades also kinda sucks.

Regigigas @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
- Body Press
- Cotton Guard

Didn't get very far with this idea but it seemed kinda funny.

 

[Champion Leon]

Since this is the first time in forever I've not been caught up in a BH tourney here's just some random things I think are cool

Kartana @ Choice Band
Ability: Corrosion
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sunsteel Strike
- Toxic
- Glacial Lance
- Bolt Beak

Quite nice for luring in Fur Coat steels to poison them. I paired this with a merciless Calyrex-S but that's rip. I improofed it with a PH Rotom-Heat but Rotom-Heat is absolutely useless so don't do that use PH reshiram or magic bounce magneton or something.

Kartana @ Life Orb
Ability: Triage
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Drain Punch
- Glacial Lance
- Horn Leech / Filler

I hadn't seen Kartana used much around OMWC time so I suggested this to GL Volkner when talking to him about his prep, I think it was specifically vs someone who doesn't use Imposter much which makes it especially good - though he didn't use it in the end. The main idea was it just punches through most Prankster mons, and at +6 Glacial Lance kills most slower mons even if they are Fur Coat.
+6 252+ Atk Life Orb Kartana Glacial Lance vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Palkia: 374-441 (97.3 - 114.8%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
+6 252+ Atk Life Orb Kartana Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Zamazenta-Crowned: 333-393 (85.8 - 101.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
+6 252+ Atk Life Orb Kartana Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Kartana: 782-923 (109.5 - 129.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO [Vs. Imposter Blissey or similar vs non-evio Chansey, so you can force a speed tie or win if they are para]

Prank tina and some random fc/unware mons wall it tho.

Regieleki @ Life Orb
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Spore
- Swords Dance
- Bolt Beak
- Glacial Lance

Sleep goes Brrrrrrr

Reshiram @ Choice Band
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- V-create
- Dragon Energy
- U-turn
- Trick

I used this on a sun team to abuse the fact that most people expect a special reshiram but v-create still hits like a truck. Basically all the moves are optional except V-create + special dragon move.

Coalossal @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Lava Plume / Topsy Turvy?
- Anchor Shot
- Leech Seed / Topsy Turvy?
- Icicle Spear / Glacial Lance / Topsy Turvy?

The idea behind this is that it traps and beats some regigigas and xern sets and beats toxic orb imposter and being annoying in general. It really needs Topsy though I just didn't know what to give up. Getting ohkoed by earthpower or pblades also kinda sucks.

Regigigas @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
- Body Press
- Cotton Guard

Didn't get very far with this idea but it seemed kinda funny.

I like your Regigigas set’s idea.

Zamazenta-Crowned @ Leftovers
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Body Press
- Cotton Guard
- Strength Sap
- Taunt

Taunt Haze / Recover, Boost Defense, diminish offense via Sap Strength (Imposter, Magic Bounce, etc. do not impact your damage), and sweep with no Immunity thanks to Scrappy.

Zacian @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Spore
- Belly Drum
- Last Resort

I have used this for fun, and it works as a late game sweeper that can easily take advantage of Sleep, Speed, Power, and Type-Coverage, without fear of Imposter.

 

[cityscapes]

You realize none of this is applicable to anything I said, you're deabating with a ghost. Pulling off the most extreme examples of broken things is not a way of showing the arguably broken things that got banned were banned for a good reason. You're not trying to find the truth, you just want to win the argument using schopenhauer's playbook (17th strategy). I already stated I don't believe we should try to approach pure hackmons and I'm not trying to unban anything that has been banned. People are feeling personnaly attacked on the last and least interesting part of my post. I was just saying people like to see the game as the problem rather than themselves and that makes them slightly more inclined to press on the ban button than they should be.

my idea with these points was that they are applicable to glacial lance and bolt beak imo. whether or not these moves are comparable to something like illusion in terms of "stupidness" or whatever is debatable, but they fall into the same category of something that enables many diverse pokemon and doesn't necessarily lock you into 2-3 sets defensively, while still being potentially over the edge.

as for the other part, you specifically cited a potential cramorant ban as a consequence of bolt beak/glacial lance ban and i'm pretty sure you meant it in a negative way?

i won't spend too much time on this cause you said it wasn't the main part of your post. moving on.

Right, so if top players spent all their games sweeping each other randomly on whoever got the right match-up in turn 1 then we should start banning walls? If the fact balanced teams end up stalling all the time isn't an indicator the meta isn't too offensive, what is? The fact fat mons are capable of tanking the hits and no player is capable of retaliating with their wallbreakers is exactly what shows we don't need to ban those moves.

playing defensively is the best way to succeed in a metagame like this as long as the walls are vaguely functional. it works because fc guys dont die to bolt beak/glacial lance/zacc, while you may note that most other things do in fact die.

no one wants to use walls if they don't have to. walls suck and don't make progress in the game. the problem is that everything else sucks more because it dies to bolt/glance/zacc. remember darm meta when loser just spammed those darm + 4-5 wall teams? remember post dlc2 when onyx onix 7 spammed baneful bunker stall to beat choiced mons? stall gets more pervasive the stronger these elements are, because they have less to prepare for due to everything else getting pushed out of the meta. i'm sure that over time we would've seen stuff like passive dry skin teams in gen 7 water bubble meta or helmet steel resist spam to deal with double iron bash unrestricted zac-c.

"how do i beat virgins who spam fc zama-c without getting sent directly to hell by glacial lance and bolt beak?" this was the question asked by premium bh coomer, huhshrug. as anyone who's faced him will notice, it's a pretty dismal effort. to function, the team needs to use subpass on a status/knock-weak mon with 1 resist (the other pokemon on the team dont function without a sub), spam sap on non-moldy mons (otherwise you just get 2hkod and instalose), use DEFOG CAUSE YOU LOSE TO ANY HAZARD LOOOOL, have zacc as the sole fairy resist, forgo poison heal cause everything else feels mandatory, and use a heal bell offensive mon in order to not lose to cramorant. and EVEN THEN, the team is forced to use its own fc zama-c and he has to go into it quite often. you can see the stockfish evaluation bar just drop whenever he brings this tragic pokemon in to click defog and maybe throw out a few sad thunderous kicks before hopefully switching out.

this is not a good team. for quite a few hypothetical situations ("what happens if you run into x?") the team just has no response. you lose to bounce, you lose to imposter + anything, you lose to good stall, you lose to poison heal + anything, you lose to this lol, hell you still probably lose to cramorant.

the goal with banning glacial lance and bolt beak is to make nonpassive teams like this one able to actually bring the tools to outplay stuff without opening up huge vulnerabilities somewhere else. obviously this isn't the best example because i think there are better teams than huhshrug's out there with the same idea, but he's so universal at this point that i'm sure you will also get what i'm going for here.

I've built hundreds of teams in this gen and hundreds in gen 7 and I find myself in the same twisted situations where the last mon I add needs to cover plenty of very different threats because there's just so much and the perfect team doesn't exist. Extreme precision in building and playing is what it takes to get to the top in every tier and that's a metagame were supposed to aim for.

1 thing i wanted to say here is that im using a different definition of "precision" here, my apologies for the miscommunication.

so a while back in gen 7 (couple months ago) i was bringing this team quite a bit and was a little confused about it. it didn't win that many games as you'd expect, but it also never ran into any unwinnable matchups; in theory, you could just outplay any opposing team and win. i said in some games with this team that i needed to play more precisely.

obviously the issue with this framework was that even in the games i could win in theory, in practice the opponent could threaten several winning things at once and i couldn't cover them all, so i would just take a massive hit every time i guessed something wrong. that's the same sort of feeling i get when i try to build or play anything in this metagame.

in retrospect that means like the opposite of "precision" lol my b. moving on

BH should not be approched as other tiers where you want to make sure you're as close as possible to countering every threat by simply walling them. We have to accept the fact you can't counter every offensive threat and the fact a BH game can flip around with one bad move and banning until that changes will just slowly lead the meta into deep stall. We have to accept that in BH trends dictate what's good and what's not more than in other tiers. We have to accept that in this tier, prankster D-bonding or saccing cramorant on the threat you weren't prepared for is a part of what balances the tier. (Ps those are just 2 examples of wierd anti-sweep strats unique to BH, please don't attack those specific strategies as inconsistent, there's many more, that's the point).

i don't want to "cover" everything defensively cause that's gonna be impossible. stall sucks. what i want is to dynamically interact with everything and have windows to outmaneuver it. what i want is to butt heads with offensive pokemon using my own attackers and try to gain an edge using really unconventional sets. what i want is counterplay that isn't passive. pokemon that practically force a passive response have no place in this metagame.

my experience with stall in gen 7 is that you can bring the dumbest and weakest offensive teams (example) and they will work because stall never has a hard counter. when you have hundreds of sets to choose from and your pokemon can do anything they want, stall is typically not a centralizing force. i'm not worried about defensive strategies spiraling out of control bro where are they gonna spiral to? "OH NO HE HAS CORROSIVE GAS I HAVE NO COUNTERPLAY!!!" nah bro i just don't see it happening.

 

[a loser]

Small Update:
I've added a FAQ to the second post of this thread. It is short and sweet but should cover most of what newer players might have questions about. If other questions start getting asked more frequently though, we'll update as needed.

Small Reminder: Go participate in the double suspect test on Bolt Beak and Glacial Lance!!

Balanced "FAQ"mons
​

Why is Zacian-Crowned with Intrepid Sword allowed on the ladder when both are shown as banned?
Zacian-Crowned is only available for use by giving base Zacian the Rusted Sword held item, which allows it to enter battle as Zacian-Crowned locked into its signature ability, Intrepid Sword. Being restricted to one ability and required to hold a certain item makes Zacian-Crowned easier to play against since it can't use other items like Life Orb and Choice Band or abilities like Pixilate and Steelworker.

Why isn’t Normalize banned?
Entrainment Normalize, coming from Ghost-types like Dragapult and Marshadow can be annoying to deal with at times but there are multiple options to counter this strategy which include but aren’t limited to: all status moves except Thunder Wave, Magic Bounce, and Multi-Attack and Techno Blast with an appropriate held item.

Why isn’t Imposter banned?
Imposter is one of the few things in BH that you have a near 100% expectation of what you'll be facing because you design the set. The only variation is the amount of HP and the item. Imposter-proofing ("Improofing") means building your team to handle the Imposter of each team member, and the power of Imposter is entirely dependent on your own teambuilding. Taking advantage of Multi-Attack and Techno Blast, item removal, status moves, uncommon hard-counters to sweepers, trapping via Anchor Shot / Thousand Waves and even its limited 20 pp movepool are all common and valid strategies.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

Some sets that do good now and should still do well regardless of if bolt beak and glacial lance get banned.

Ferrothorn @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Knock Off
- Spikes/Toxic Spikes/Stealth Rock
- Whirlwind
- Shore Up

Flash fire Ferro is so good it becomes an addiction and I just can't stop putting him in every team. With ff, ferro becomes weak to only fighting which is pretty easy to cover since in terms of usage, Zama-C represents basicaly half the fighting coverage you'll encounter and regular zamazenta takes up a good portion of the other half (third most common might be shuckle... lol). But ferro doesn't just have few weaknesses, with ff he's probably got the greatest set of resistances in the game including electric and water which steel types rarely resist. This makes ferro one of the best counters to both palkia and reshiram who tend to be very painful to stop with their great stab coverage that can hit on both defences on one same set. Ferro's defences are good, but not stellar so it is possible to power through and 2hko with moves like specs dragon maw dragon energy, but knock off does a good job of shutting those down provided you don't use ferro as a switch-in the first time.

This set aims to not make ferro a sitting duck like many walls tend to be. Knock off is the only damaging move to cause permanent irreversible damage making it the move of choice for a wall you'll be spamming early game. Knock off also pairs amazingly well with whirlwind and hazards since your opponent can't just constantly switch in the same knock off absorber every time. Ferro is so good and underated, your opponent will often realize in-game how ill equipped he is to deal with it and try to cripple it with some of his hail mary strats like tricking him a choice item. Knock off prevents your opponent from simply switching in a trick user and forces it to come in on a free switch to attempt this strategy. He'll probably have to get his switch through whirlwind or death of a mon since ferro is slower than all pivots that don't use teleport. If you can tank a hit, whirlwind is the greatest way to stop sweepers from setting up in general since the only counter (magic bounce) is quite rare on sweepers. It's also a great way to cripple sub users wether they're trying to set up on you or simply protect from knock off. Of course, whirlwind and hazards are a timless combination forcing damage on mons your opponent did not plan to send in.

Ferro pairs really well with zacian-C which can improof knock off, switch-in on a predicted trick or resist many of the things ferro fears like powerful ice or flying moves or specs dragon maw dragon energy. Finaly, when playin ferro, make sure you have a way to stop the sweepers ferro phazes once they're the last mon standing because once they can't be phazed, ferro ain't walling them for long.


Thundurus-Therian (M) @ Expert Belt
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Rash Nature
- Zap Cannon
- Blizzard
- Focus Blast
- Knock Off

I built this set thinking people might let their guard down to ice and electric if BB and GL get banned and because I wanted a wallbreaker that isn't crippled by cramorant. Electric, ice and fighting offer an amazing coverage and even though people often prepare for it since it's currently so easy to spam on the physical side, their counter isn't always prepared to tank it on the special side, but most importantly, they don't expect their counter to have to reisist paralysis. Thundurus-T has one of the greatest sp.a of all the mons that Stab one of the three main moves and actualy stabs the greatest of the three (unlike kyurem-white). Many moves could have been chosen for the last move, but I believe knock off is the best since your awesome coverage means a lot of special walls rely on eviolite, assault vest or even leftovers to not get 2hko'd. Expert belt just seems like the best item since you don't have a healing move to cover for LO damage and you're hitting so much stuff for super effective damage anyway. Even if his wallbreaking power is not amazing, paralyzing your counter often gives you the edge on the long run since they're likely to miss a healing opportuinty before you run out of pp.

Palkia @ Lustrous Orb
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Rash Nature
- Fishious Rend
- Core Enforcer
- Volt Switch
- No Retreat

This set functions as a sweeper that can also fit in a defensive core and can help out early game before the opponent's team is weak enough to be swept. With it's great coverage on both attacking types, 100 base speed, good defences and great defensive typing, plakia is one of the greatest mons to take fully advantage of a no retreat boost and one of those who rarely needs more than one boost to get his sweep going (since you can't get a second boost with no retreat unless you've been locked in by something else like anchor shot before). Volt swtich brings a little bit of coverage on water types you'll need to grind through before sweeping and usualy guarantees an escape from no retreat lock since all ground types greatly fear one of your 2 stabs (watch-out for volt absord though).

 

[blackster0915]

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8balancedhackmons-1284914351-ont9ua7f0ujrrnxa9aprkzu3pn0fgxjpw

Was this guy hacking?
What are his strategies?

 

[a loser]

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8balancedhackmons-1284914351-ont9ua7f0ujrrnxa9aprkzu3pn0fgxjpw

Was this guy hacking?
What are his strategies?

1. Leppa Berry is not banned in BH.
2. Sticky Hold is ignored by Mold Breaker abilities and Recycle can be blocked by Taunt.
3. Aegislash could switch out of Anchor Shot because Ghost-types cannot be trapped no matter what.
4. It's a tested and proven mechanic that No Retreat can be used multiple times if the "Can't Escape" flag is raised, which is why Jaw Lock is seen paired with No Retreat.
5. It is a current bug that Protective Pads prevents Cramorant's Gulp Missile from activating. It shouldn't normally prevent activation.

So no, he was not hacking.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8balancedhackmons-1284914351-ont9ua7f0ujrrnxa9aprkzu3pn0fgxjpw

Was this guy hacking?
What are his strategies?

Not hacking. Stall is good enough in this tier that you can actually pp stall plenty of things, this guy just pushed it to another level. Baton pass is an amazing strategy in this tier but it's completely shut down by haze. This person just decided he/she would use plenty of moves with high PP and recycle leppa berry to ruin haze. As for the ending, he/she uses a regigias with no retreat, jaw lock and suction cups. Once you are trapped, you can use no retreat as much as you want. Since jaw lock locks both the user and the attacker, no retreat can be used multiple times (only if you use jaw lockbefore your first no retreat). Since regigas is normal and has suction cups, the boosts can't be removed by hazing or with spectral thief. Only option to remove the boosts is haze (and topsy turvy but it can be blocked by magic bounce or dark type if switched to a dark type like obstagoon).

This strategy is a pain toface and demands a lot of patience to use but it's far from unbeatable. I suggest you never use a set without a pivot move unless your set is a ghost, designed for trapping or it has enough fire power to prevent any trapper from doing it's thing. In this case, a pivot move on zygarde (or using giratina) would have been a good way to delay the sweep although that zygarde seem ment to trap, you could consider using shed shell. Even then, with a leppa berry recycle aegi, he would have probably won in the VERY long run if you had nothing to punch a hole. He finishes off by passing to obstagoon for the sweep with power trip that kills regardless of unaware because of the move's insane power and still can't be spectraf thief'd nor is he affected by prankster (other than haze and d-bond) He probably also carries extremespeed to prevent being hit by certan threats with priority (like sash + endeavor + priority).

To counter this strategy, I suggest taunt (if possible on a mold breaker set), choice item + trick, a great control of hazards (multiple setters, spin block, court change), encore (you could have used it on a better mon than aegi) or simply having a lot of diversified offensive power. Chansey has it's merit too if you can manage to keep substitutes down since it never runs out of pp either unless it's trapped. Another thing to do would have been to keep prankster haze secret untill he passed to obstagoon since with 8 no retreat pp, he can't boost often. These teams also usualy need 5 mons used as defence since the team's movepool is highly reduced by all the baton pass and recovery. If you manage to kill the sweeper with prankster D-bond or anything else, he can only pp stall from there. In this case, kartana probably acts as secondary sweeper with triage (the greatest priority), horn leech, drain punch and glacial lance.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

I'll make a final post about BB and GL since to my surprise, people who qualified for the vote seem to agree BB is more broken than GL and the discussion is pretty much dead.

Sure BB has the highest base power of the 2, but to me the coverage brought by GL is far more threatening. When not used as a STAB, BB is basicaly used to cover water types and ho-oh, but palkia and swampert are among the most common water types. What makes BB so powerful is that it's paired with GL. If GL were to be banned, there would be way more options to block BB. I'll just list some thoughts about what makes BB not that powerful in a world where GL is banned:

-Ground types, 3 eletric immunity abilities and a plethora of dragons make Choice band BB a dangerous bet, especialy in a tier with so many protect users.
-Prankster users can half BB's sweeping power and recover in the users face
-The two bulkiest mons in the tier on the physical side (zygarde and giratina) don't care at all about BB and are only frightened because it's always paired with GL. (Although Zacian-C will probably run play rough instead, it's still an inferior option against eternatus and in general)
-There are only 2 decent mons that STAB BB: Zekrom and regielki. Regielki becomes super easy to block if GL is banned and Zekrom needs a boost to unlock BB's true power which significantly reduces it's power.
-If not for Zacian-C, Zekrom and regielki, nothing really uses BB to it's full potential, the added coverage to Zamazenta-C pairs pretty badly with his stabs.

All in all, this simultaneous double suspect test of 2 moves that are so interconnected slightly disturbs me. Imo there should be some sort of ranked voting where you can vote something like: Ban GL if BB is not banned. Not quite sure how the mechanics of such ranked voting would work, but I can develop the idea if the mods are interested. We could maybe even have banned rusty sword and both moves might not be considered broken (but it's too late for that now).

 

[willdbeast]

Zekrom @ Life Orb
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Bolt Beak
- Dragon Energy
- Strength Sap
- Spikes / Filler

Here's a set I've been using to good effect. It's not exactly innovative with adapt zek being one of the best mons all the way back to before DLC1 and this almost being the set from the old Analysis Chessking345 wrote, but idt I've seen any post this exact thing recently, with the main highlight being the +Speed nature, allowing you to outspeed a huge chunk of the meta: Neutral speed tina, zyg, xern, gigas, resh, palk, yvel and a bunch of others. Then the moves just nuke it all.

252 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Zekrom Dragon Energy (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Zygarde-Complete: 655-775 (102.9 - 121.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Zekrom Dragon Energy (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Giratina: 562-665 (111.5 - 131.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Adaptability Zekrom Bolt Beak (170 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Xerneas: 439-517 (96.2 - 113.3%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Adaptability Zekrom Bolt Beak (170 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Regigigas: 398-468 (93.8 - 110.3%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Zekrom Dragon Energy (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Dialga: 317-374 (78.4 - 92.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Zekrom Dragon Energy (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Reshiram: 562-665 (139.1 - 164.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Zama is basically the only thing stopping this from being completely busted.

This is the team I used it on, I'm not entirely happy with the team but every time I used it Zekrom put in a huge amount of work just clicking bolt beak vs anything that wasn't a dragon. https://pokepast.es/9fa692490cd8f00e

Moral of the story: Run jolly gigas and ban bolt beak

 

[Champion Leon]

252 Atk Life Orb Adaptability Zekrom Bolt Beak (170 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 160-188 (45.4 - 53.4%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Zekrom Dragon Energy (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Ferrothorn: 144-170 (40.9 - 48.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Nooo! We need a Fairy-Ground type pronto! For now, it’s Ice Scales Steelix or Bust.

 

[Megapot125]

So, I've created a monster of a Regigigas with the simple ability, but I need to make something to go with it...
https://pokepast.es/6fb2301ddec4b11e

 

[Champion Leon]

So, I've created a monster of a Regigigas with the simple ability, but I need to make something to go with it...
https://pokepast.es/6fb2301ddec4b11e

Give it Unaware Zamazenta-C

Zamazenta-Crowned @ Fighting Memory
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Multi-Attack
- Recover
- Spectral Thief
- Shift Gear

It’s an easy Improof for Regigigas, and handles other set-up from your opponent. Unaware negates Zacian-C’s Intrepid Sword, and can handle even SpA set-up. Spectral and Shift Gear work nicely to become a threat rather than just a bulky wall.

Multi-Attack works with the Fighting Memory to allow it to hit opponents as well as, (but without the consequences of) Close Combat, while staying Self-Improof.

Plus, it’s really fun!

Also, I would give it some teammates!

Teammates

Cramorant-Gorging @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Gulp Missile
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Careful Nature
- Roost
- Endure
- Flip Turn
- Knock Off

Perfectly counters Imposter via Paralysis, removing Eviolite and getting a free switch, and punishes any attack so it’s a great switch in.

Eternatus @ Black Sludge
Ability: Ice Scales
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Milk Drink
- Sticky Web
- Volt Switch
- Core Enforcer

Slow down foes like Regieleki, PHealers, and Zacian-C, who think they can just show up. I don’t think so, now Zamazenta-C can outspeed and not take much from Bolt Beak, Fishous Rend, etc.

Core covers Dragons, and can disable abilities.

Zygarde-Complete @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Haze
- Milk Drink
- Court Change
- Thousand Waves

Prankster Hazer is a backup in case Unaware Zamazenta-C cannot switch in (I.e. vs V-Create).

Trap Imposter, Court Change if you face Magic Bounce, etc.

Zacian @ Flame Orb
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Psycho Shift
- Spikes
- Milk Drink
- Facade

Burn, Spike, Heal, and Sweep. Dragons are no more.

@Everyone:
Let’s all contribute when someone has a question. It’s not nice to leave them hanging!

He has only posted twice — ever and I think we should be positive with some kind reacts. So I gave him one — let’s be welcoming and encouraging to new posters. It’s important to have open arms.

 

[opfish]

He has only posted twice — ever and I think we should be positive with some kind reacts. So I gave him one — let’s be welcoming and encouraging to new posters. It’s important to have open arms.

Why didn't you respond him/her at the first time she/he asked?

So, I've created a monster of a Regigigas with the simple ability, but I need to make something to go with it...
https://pokepast.es/6fb2301ddec4b11e

For a partner, Cramorant is a really good choice and some fur coat or unaware are good too.
I have some advice for this set too, shift gear doesn't seems really useful when you have a priority move.
Zamazenta-Crowned @ Leftovers
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
- Shore Up
- Body Press
- Anchor Shot
- Spectral Thief
It is a good defensive core and helps improofing Regigigas. Anchor shot can trap impostor and pp stall until it ran out of pp. It can resist many good physical offensive pkms in this meta such as Regigigas, Kyurem-b, Zacian-Crowned, etc...
Body press and anchor shot can do a decent damage for most of the offensive pkms.

 

[Megapot125]

Thank you for the help! I think that Atlas has the perfect team set up now! And thank you for being so kind, I really appreciate it! I also switched out Extreme Speed for Body Slam, though I want something stronger that would also be physical STAB. Here it is!
https://pokepast.es/15d3f1aa5f58b234
Edit: I need something to deal with shuckle stall. Can any of my pokemon do that?

 

[Champion Leon]

Why didn't you respond him/her at the first time she/he asked?

For a partner, Cramorant is a really good choice and some fur coat or unaware are good too.
I have some advice for this set too, shift gear doesn't seems really useful when you have a priority move.
Zamazenta-Crowned @ Leftovers
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
- Shore Up
- Body Press
- Anchor Shot
- Spectral Thief
It is a good defensive core and helps improofing Regigigas. Anchor shot can trap impostor and pp stall until it ran out of pp. It can resist many good physical offensive pkms in this meta such as Regigigas, Kyurem-b, Zacian-Crowned, etc...
Body press and anchor shot can do a decent damage for most of the offensive pkms.

His only other time he posted (before his post above), was in a different thread, so I did post the first time he asked, actually.

The fact you followed my orders to help him proves you know better.

Let’s end this negativity.

Thank you for the help! I think that Atlas has the perfect team set up now! And thank you for being so kind, I really appreciate it! I also switched out Extreme Speed for Body Slam, though I want something stronger that would also be physical STAB. Here it is!
https://pokepast.es/15d3f1aa5f58b234
Edit: I need something to deal with shuckle stall. Can any of my pokemon do that?

You are welcome!

You could switch out Shift Gear on Zamazenta-C to use Anchor Shot, sometimes Shift Gear isn’t necessary. This allows you to trap Cotton Guard Body Press Shuckle and use Spectral Thief and keep yourself healthy - especially versus Poison Heal variants.

Zygarde-C also works to trap, and use Haze, so that could also handle it.

Lastly, if it isn’t a Cotton Guard Body Press variant, (Prankster Haze), Zacian-Base can still Burn and wear it down with its powerful Facade.

What Shuckle sets give you the most problems?

 

[Megapot125]

His only other time he posted (before his post above), was in a different thread, so I did post the first time he asked, actually.

The fact you followed my orders to help him proves you know better.

Let’s end this negativity.
You are welcome!

You could switch out Shift Gear on Zamazenta-C to use Anchor Shot, sometimes Shift Gear isn’t necessary. This allows you to trap Cotton Guard Body Press Shuckle and use Spectral Thief and keep yourself healthy - especially versus Poison Heal variants.

Zygarde-C also works to trap, and use Haze, so that could also handle it.

Lastly, if it isn’t a Cotton Guard Body Press variant, (Prankster Haze), Zacian-Base can still Burn and wear it down with its powerful Facade.

What Shuckle sets give you the most problems?

I've been having a lot of trouble with cotton guard body press, and also some problems with normal types that get stat boosts not being affected by spectral thief. should I change Atlas' ability to scrappy or something?

 

[Champion Leon]

Hide

I've been having a lot of trouble with cotton guard body press, and also some problems with normal types that get stat boosts not being affected by spectral thief. should I change Atlas' ability to scrappy or something?

Here is what I would suggest:

Giratina @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Strength Sap
- Knock Off
- Spectral Thief
- Core Enforcer

Shuckle / anything cannot hurt Ghost-types with Body Press.

Spectral handles Shuckle shenanigans so it takes the boosts and stays in vs the next opponent, Core Enforcer handles Regigigas who is usually carrying Poison Heal. Strength Sap heals which lets it handle Shift Gear as well.

Knock Off handles Eviolite Type: Null.

Regigigas and Type: Null are the only Normal-types I see. Was there anything else?

Fit Giratina by replacing Eternatus.

I would make your Regigigas set the following:

Regigigas @ Dark Memory
Ability: Normalize
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fishious Rend
- Multi-Attack
- Recover
- Shift Gear

Now Giratina can Improof it by virtue of Multi-Attack being Normal-type without a Memory item (Imposter). Switch out to Giratina if you predict Knock Off, since Poison Heal doesn’t require its Toxic Orb once it triggers.

Fishous Rend gets Normal STAB + 20%, and in case Bolt Beak is banned due to the suspect, Fishous Rend isn’t suspected, so far.

Shift Gear maximizes the power of Fishous Rend. Zamazenta-C also serves as a backup check.

Fishous Rend after Normalize is 255 (STAB) x 1.2 (which is + 51) = 306 right off the bat.

Now that is powerful...

 

[Patricick]

I come bringing a gift to all, the objectively best trio to ever exist in BH. Their Autistic Fury knows no bounds, and their BDE is unmatched. Behold, the Chad Trio.

Chad Trio

A mistake (Reshiram) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 252 HP / 236 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Blue Flare
- Clanging Scales
- Diamond Storm
- Trick

Clowning around (Blacephalon) @ Life Orb
Ability: Rock Head
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Mind Blown
- Steel Beam
- Head Smash
- Quiver Dance

Best set ever (Calyrex-Ice) @ Custap Berry
Ability: Fluffy
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Destiny Bond
- Mirror Coat
- Endure
- Counter

As you stare in awe at the absolute genius of this, let me explain. Despite my jokes, this really is an effective trio for laddering, and was borne of 45 minutes of me dicking around in teambuilder and chuckling to myself as I created this abomination. The stand out of this set is Calyrex Ice, who has no attacking moves, holds a custap berry, and has fluffy. This serves as a poor man's wobbafett, but in some ways, it's better. Calyrex I is so dummy thicc on both sides that it can take some truly powerful attacks. Fluffy serves a very distinct purpose, allowing both Reshiram and Blacephlon to absolutely nuke an impostered version, while also stopping half of the damage for contact moves, which is most physical attacks. With a custap berry, Calyrex can take a powerful super effective hit with it's massive bulk and counter or mirror coat the opponent into oblivion. If you reach 25% HP, Custap and destiny bond to take out the revenge killer. If not, endure then destiny bond, although it's less effective because you lose some surprise factor. This set works so much better then you would think, because Calyrex I can take even boosted super effective hits, (It took a +2 Life orb searing shot from Xern in a game without fluffy) and OHKO right back with counter or mirror coat, Then the opponent, mad at themselves for losing a key member of the team, or at losing the sweep, brings in a revenge killer just to be beat down even further when the custap destiny bond goes off and they lose something else. Hilarious every time. You absolutely should probably not bring this to a tournament, but it's fun as hell.

As for Blacephalon, this set was created as both a strong nuke and improof against Calyrex and Reshiram. With Rock head mind blown, you get a massive nuke for general use. Steel beam is to rock Xern and the Kyurem's while providing solid neutral coverage. Head Smash is the most important move, as it absolutely wrecks Ho-Oh and takes care of Reshiram for reasons I'll explain later. I put quiver dance on there because I couldn't really think of anything else to put on there and having a potential win con is good. You could replace it if you want.

As for Reshiram, it serves a different purpose with a similar set. It's a revenge killer with Scarf, and beefs up it's blue flare with desolate land. Clanging Scales as the dragon stab is intentional, as it allows other mon's to revenge kill imposters easier. You could replace it if you want, but I wouldn't recommend it. Diamond Storm is also very intententional, as it greatly improves your Blacephalon matchup by both hitting it super effectively and boosting your defense. Because the imposter lacks life orb, if you get the defense boost on the first turn, you're never 2HKOed by head smash. even without it, you'll always survive at least one head smash.

These two improof each other very well, and both annihilate Calyrex I. Because Reshiram is scarfed, it outspeeds Blacephalon and will always take a head smash, and if it gets the defense boost on the first turn, it'll always take two. If it gets the defense boost on the second hit, there's a chance for it to survive another one. Blacephalon takes care of Reshiram because the imposter lacks scarf, and is therefore slower, and the Reshiram is EVed to specifically never OHKO it through life orb damage with diamond storm.

Overall, this trio is pretty fun and works better then you would expect. All mons involved are weak to all forms of hazards, so you definitely need hazard removal.

I've been having a lot of trouble with cotton guard body press, and also some problems with normal types that get stat boosts not being affected by spectral thief. should I change Atlas' ability to scrappy or something?

Like 99% sure that Scrappy only lets fighting and normal moves hit ghosts, not let ghost hit normal. If you're struggling with normal types boosting, run haze on another pokemon. You can't do it all with one slot. Also, you might want to try using recover over shift gear and keep E-speed to greatly improve longevity.

 

[shadowpea]

I come bringing a gift to all, the objectively best trio to ever exist in BH. Their Autistic Fury knows no bounds, and their BDE is unmatched. Behold, the Chad Trio.

Chad Trio

A mistake (Reshiram) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 252 HP / 236 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Blue Flare
- Clanging Scales
- Diamond Storm
- Trick

Clowning around (Blacephalon) @ Life Orb
Ability: Rock Head
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Mind Blown
- Steel Beam
- Head Smash
- Quiver Dance

Best set ever (Calyrex-Ice) @ Custap Berry
Ability: Fluffy
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Destiny Bond
- Mirror Coat
- Endure
- Counter

As you stare in awe at the absolute genius of this, let me explain. Despite my jokes, this really is an effective trio for laddering, and was borne of 45 minutes of me dicking around in teambuilder and chuckling to myself as I created this abomination. The stand out of this set is Calyrex Ice, who has no attacking moves, holds a custap berry, and has fluffy. This serves as a poor man's wobbafett, but in some ways, it's better. Calyrex I is so dummy thicc on both sides that it can take some truly powerful attacks. Fluffy serves a very distinct purpose, allowing both Reshiram and Blacephlon to absolutely nuke an impostered version, while also stopping half of the damage for contact moves, which is most physical attacks. With a custap berry, Calyrex can take a powerful super effective hit with it's massive bulk and counter or mirror coat the opponent into oblivion. If you reach 25% HP, Custap and destiny bond to take out the revenge killer. If not, endure then destiny bond, although it's less effective because you lose some surprise factor. This set works so much better then you would think, because Calyrex I can take even boosted super effective hits, (It took a +2 Life orb searing shot from Xern in a game without fluffy) and OHKO right back with counter or mirror coat, Then the opponent, mad at themselves for losing a key member of the team, or at losing the sweep, brings in a revenge killer just to be beat down even further when the custap destiny bond goes off and they lose something else. Hilarious every time. You absolutely should probably not bring this to a tournament, but it's fun as hell.

As for Blacephalon, this set was created as both a strong nuke and improof against Calyrex and Reshiram. With Rock head mind blown, you get a massive nuke for general use. Steel beam is to rock Xern and the Kyurem's while providing solid neutral coverage. Head Smash is the most important move, as it absolutely wrecks Ho-Oh and takes care of Reshiram for reasons I'll explain later. I put quiver dance on there because I couldn't really think of anything else to put on there and having a potential win con is good. You could replace it if you want.

As for Reshiram, it serves a different purpose with a similar set. It's a revenge killer with Scarf, and beefs up it's blue flare with desolate land. Clanging Scales as the dragon stab is intentional, as it allows other mon's to revenge kill imposters easier. You could replace it if you want, but I wouldn't recommend it. Diamond Storm is also very intententional, as it greatly improves your Blacephalon matchup by both hitting it super effectively and boosting your defense. Because the imposter lacks life orb, if you get the defense boost on the first turn, you're never 2HKOed by head smash. even without it, you'll always survive at least one head smash.

These two improof each other very well, and both annihilate Calyrex I. Because Reshiram is scarfed, it outspeeds Blacephalon and will always take a head smash, and if it gets the defense boost on the first turn, it'll always take two. If it gets the defense boost on the second hit, there's a chance for it to survive another one. Blacephalon takes care of Reshiram because the imposter lacks scarf, and is therefore slower, and the Reshiram is EVed to specifically never OHKO it through life orb damage with diamond storm.

Overall, this trio is pretty fun and works better then you would expect. All mons involved are weak to all forms of hazards, so you definitely need hazard removal.



Like 99% sure that Scrappy only lets fighting and normal moves hit ghosts, not let ghost hit normal. If you're struggling with normal types boosting, run haze on another pokemon. You can't do it all with one slot. Also, you might want to try using recover over shift gear and keep E-speed to greatly improve longevity.

Nice core you got there! It honestly looks really interesting and effective (and funny to boot). But why Rock Head over Magic Guard on Blace?

 

[Patricick]

Nice core you got there! It honestly looks really interesting and effective (and funny to boot). But why Rock Head over Magic Guard on Blace?

... Fuck lol. Totally forgot Magic Guard canceled recoil damage. Actually that makes the set a whole lot better as you can ignore SR and Life orb damage. I might try running court change on it now. This also allows me to increase the damage of diamond storm because I can safely use a def- nature on Blace now.

 

[Patricick]

Isn’t Fur Coat better than Fluffy on Calyrex? Just so you don’t lose further to Fire moves and non-contact moves like Precipies Blades, Photon Geyser, etc.

The point is to lose to fire moves. It's to allow Blacephalon and Reshiram to OHKO an impostered Calyrex. Alternatively, a set with prankster, sash and the other moves would be more consistent at getting the double KO, but good luck improofing that lol. I literally don't think there's a single unboosted attack in the game that could OHKO imposter chansey in that situation.

 

[chartung17]

The point is to lose to fire moves. It's to allow Blacephalon and Reshiram to OHKO an impostered Calyrex. Alternatively, a set with prankster, sash and the other moves would be more consistent at getting the double KO, but good luck improofing that lol. I literally don't think there's a single unboosted attack in the game that could OHKO imposter chansey in that situation.

You don't need to OHKO Imposter, you just need to make sure it can't hurt you. Ghost types are immune to Counter, Dark types are immune to Mirror Coat, or you could just not attack it and you're immune to both. And since it doesn't really need speed, you can make it min speed so that you don't have to worry about Destiny Bond from Scarf Imposter (with 0 EVs and 0 IVs in speed and a Relaxed nature, Scarf Imposter would have only 141 speed, the same as max speed Slowpoke), or, again, just don't attack it and you don't have to worry about Destiny Bond.

 

[Patricick]

You don't need to OHKO Imposter, you just need to make sure it can't hurt you. Ghost types are immune to Counter, Dark types are immune to Mirror Coat, or you could just not attack it and you're immune to both. And since it doesn't really need speed, you can make it min speed so that you don't have to worry about Destiny Bond from Scarf Imposter (with 0 EVs and 0 IVs in speed and a Relaxed nature, Scarf Imposter would have only 141 speed, the same as max speed Slowpoke), or, again, just don't attack it and you don't have to worry about Destiny Bond.

That's a really good point, and I was considering just using taunt instead, but I found that this set works better because you can just straight up get rid of the imposter. Most people would never guess that it's fluffy, and stay in and mirror coat just to get immediately OHKOed. So it serves as bait to get a vital kill for free. If you taunt the imposter it'll just switch out and be a thorn in your side later. Same with setting up, it'll just switch out and come back in.

 

[a loser]

Bolt Beak has been banned from Balanced Hackmons while Glacial Lance remains unbanned. Thanks for everyone who participated in this suspect test! Tagging Kris to implement this on PS!