BH BH Central Resources Thread

[quojova]

B- -> C: No one uses this because it loses to everyone. Slow, not even particularly threatening with refrigerate (without it special ice stab is bad), doesn't like fini, zamac, even zacian. Even then possibly the worst thing about this mon is that you can't send it out against like any of the mons from S through B except like yveltal maybe.

C -> B-: The fc core nuzzle hex set can be really threatening for the defensive utility it provides. I find this more consistent than like everyone else in B-. Other sets are okay too

C -> B-: I'm less sure about this than Lunala because it never feels too good to slot this guy on your team but it checks etern comfortably without the teambuilding strain of zac and can fill a lot of other different roles. FF, prank, bounce, probably even fur/scales are all okay on the right team. I don't like pixilate on this too much but it's not terrible and does have a niche over xern. Overall despite not being fantastic just a lot more valuable than the non-Lunala things in C imo.

A- -> A: Really good mon. It only needs a water move and a dragon move to beat almost everyone with a bit of chip so the other two moves can just be really annoying with sap/status/hazards/setup and fitting in a proactive check to it is very difficult. It comes in on a number of defensive mons (ho-oh, some zama, solgaleo??, kyogre, darm etc.) and so overall just does things very quickly. PH, primsea, adapt are all good. I would say it's A from the offensive sets alone but FC is also a great proactive physical wall.

A -> A-: This is definitely the spiciest thing I'm putting on here and it definitely performs an indispensable role on stall but overall it's just not A material to me atm. It lets xern come in really easily so it just puts you in a super passive position from the moment you send it out and then you need a really really solid xern check (which ho-oh is not in this meta you will lose to coverage) so your team is already like gira + scales zama and struggles to do anything.

I'm tempted to say heatran to C after the work it put in for me on ladder but I don't have enough confidence in it to do that yet lol

 

[XxLazzerpenguinxX]

B- -> C: No one uses this because it loses to everyone. Slow, not even particularly threatening with refrigerate (without it special ice stab is bad), doesn't like fini, zamac, even zacian. Even then possibly the worst thing about this mon is that you can't send it out against like any of the mons from S through B except like yveltal maybe.

C -> B-: The fc core nuzzle hex set can be really threatening for the defensive utility it provides. I find this more consistent than like everyone else in B-. Other sets are okay too

C -> B-: I'm less sure about this than Lunala because it never feels too good to slot this guy on your team but it checks etern comfortably without the teambuilding strain of zac and can fill a lot of other different roles. FF, prank, bounce, probably even fur/scales are all okay on the right team. I don't like pixilate on this too much but it's not terrible and does have a niche over xern. Overall despite not being fantastic just a lot more valuable than the non-Lunala things in C imo.

A- -> A: Really good mon. It only needs a water move and a dragon move to beat almost everyone with a bit of chip so the other two moves can just be really annoying with sap/status/hazards/setup and fitting in a proactive check to it is very difficult. It comes in on a number of defensive mons (ho-oh, some zama, solgaleo??, kyogre, darm etc.) and so overall just does things very quickly. PH, primsea, adapt are all good. I would say it's A from the offensive sets alone but FC is also a great proactive physical wall.

A -> A-: This is definitely the spiciest thing I'm putting on here and it definitely performs an indispensable role on stall but overall it's just not A material to me atm. It lets xern come in really easily so it just puts you in a super passive position from the moment you send it out and then you need a really really solid xern check (which ho-oh is not in this meta you will lose to coverage) so your team is already like gira + scales zama and struggles to do anything.

I'm tempted to say heatran to C after the work it put in for me on ladder but I don't have enough confidence in it to do that yet lol

I agree with most of what you said here regarding the "A" ranked pokemon, but to be honest a lot them here, are very similar in viablity with only small technicalities separating the two. I struggle to find a reason why Regigigas right now is better than Palkia, or even finding a clear cut reason as to why Palkia might be better than Eternatus. such that it warrants a rise to A. I'd be in support of just shrinking down the A & A- ranked pokemon into one A rank, since they're all more or less relatively equal in capability and flexibility. If not though, I don't think I've seen a reason yet which can really demonstrate why one may need a rise, and one may need a drop.

I agree with Lunala rising. It's had some really nice sets and usage, and has proven to be a quite versatile pokemon, especially in the era of imprison-form. Has the niche of being less passive in Giratina, but has less bulk.

I agree with Kyurem-White. The mon just sucks in general and does everything that Eternatus can do but worse. Speed tier isn't really going for it either.

I think magearna is a fine at C tbh. Despite its fairy typing, it does't really have much going for it in terms of key special resists. It isn't as good as Necrozma-Dusk-Mane (neutral to Sunsteel) and has a similar niche to ferrothorn where its second defensive tpyinh could come in handy at times.

Onto my noms:

B -> B+. Even though Groudon is able to do one thing, launche off strong ground moves, it does this damn well and can instantly win games at times. Very few pokemon can come in on, and all teams have to be prepared for it now. Very one dimensional however, so I don't see it going above B+.

B -> C: Has seen nearly zero usage in the meta unfortunately. Very little exploring and difficult to see its place in the meta since it loses to all the offensive pokemon in S - B tier.

B -> B-: Similar to Yveltal, hasn't seen much usage. Palkia as a defensive water type outclasses it. The most it can usually do in games is spread hazards through burns, and currenltly that just isn't enough in the bh meta.

D -> C: Has similar niches to Ferothorn and Magearna due to its secondary typing. Can be just as good as any steel such as registeel and imo should be in C.

D -> C: Has seen increased usage as an improof and wall for Groudon and Kyurem-Black. Not that much going for it besides that, but it's the only good defensive bug, and I think a rise in Groudon should also correspond to a rise in Golisopod.

 

[cityscapes]

noms?

to hell don’t cross them out it looks terrible
to a+. big fast, good offensively, eats hits, flexible enough to beat counters if it wants. if people stopped using unviable specs dmaw this would be s but they haven’t so it isn’t.
down. i hate all of these. on paper they provide a decent bunch of stats but in practice you’re a slow dragon (yveltal is still fairy weak and has other issues like zamac) who can’t instakill things unlike kyub.
might as well unrank this. see above except instead of not instakilling things you don’t kill things period. will be better if people stop spamming refrigerate and learn it actually has other sets.
up. my children

 

[QT]

noms?

to hell don’t cross them out it looks terrible
to a+. big fast, good offensively, eats hits, flexible enough to beat counters if it wants. if people stopped using unviable specs dmaw this would be s but they haven’t so it isn’t.
down. i hate all of these. on paper they provide a decent bunch of stats but in practice you’re a slow dragon (yveltal is still fairy weak and has other issues like zamac) who can’t instakill things unlike kyub.
might as well unrank this. see above except instead of not instakilling things you don’t kill things period. will be better if people stop spamming refrigerate and learn it actually has other sets.
up. my children

I agree with pretty much every one of these noms, and have a few more of my own.

Xerneas -> S. Either the pixilate set or the poison heal set on their own could probably manage to fit into the upper A tiers, but combined I feel they put it a step above pretty much every other progress maker around. Pixilate xern is both the best hazard remover in the metagame and a potent offensive sweeper that can threaten to win games on its own in a wide variety of matchups, and the fact that it only needs 3 moves (BB, Spin, Sap) means you can pretty easily customize it by the team, whether that means running Fishous Rend for Ho-Oh and solid damage on ice scales, V-Create to eliminate a Zamazenta for an eternatus, extreme speed for a bit of last ditch speed control.. it's kind of hard to go wrong. Poison Heal Xerneas is a completely insane long term wincon. I think the best two sets atm are Tcage sleep and tcage scorching / plume, since those do the best at getting past the few stops it technically has, but even older sets like spikes still work out fine.

Groudon and Kyurem-B should both rise, they're not as good as Xerneas or whatever atm but they're still way better than B tier. I tend to find groudon more useful due to its ability to suffocate a lot of Ice Scales Steel-types for its teammates but Kyurem-B is still great.

Magearna should rise a bit, it's still not great but with etern around it actually finally has a niche.

 

[cityscapes]

stay b or up. esoterica!!!!! we love this mon, it’s weak to zero (0) special attackers so u can slap on regenvest and just cover all that stuff, literally the only other thing you need to do is bring a dragon energy switchin that you can go to after ogre barely gets 2hkod by specs. this mon makes it very easy to cover things, it does lose to cage xern but that guy hits for nothing so you don’t need to cover it with a special wall. brought ogre 2-3 times in ompl, the mon works

 

[A Touch Of Crazy]

Rises
A- -> A+. need i say more? it has inherited the earth.
D -> C. pretty cool and has niche sets like triage or psea
D -> C. golisopod is probably the only real wall to groudon, and insane as a physical fc/pheal wall
C -> B-. surprisingly good pokemon, a bit weak to koff and sthief but aside from that its incredible
UR -> D. actually a good fc wall trust trust, just cresselia but different spread
A- -> A. phenomenal sweeper with adapt, pheal, swift swim, or moldy. Can also function defensively somewhat
B -> B+. mold breaker is insane, and the combination of glance and vc just ruin everything, has the highest atk in the metagame aside from kart
UR -> D. one of the new fastest viable bulky mons, can do funny things with pix facade or pheal
D -> C. an amazing neutral wall for fc/prank/scales
D -> C. Good neutral FC wall that can pressure mons like gigas with tkick and stab fishious rend
B -> B+/A-. deletes all the steels, isnt walled by anything realistically with ground and ice coverage aside from golisopod, and will be the biggest menace to society if it gets some set-up with moldy
C -> B-. a surprisingly scary mon even still with aerilate triage or moldy

Drops
B -> C. It just doesnt do anything, its weak to almost everything and has nothing special offensively
B- -> C. It is a slow dragon and loses to almost everything faster than it, honestly just worse eternatus
B+ -> B/B-. insane bst but loses to fairy ice and dragon, which is just literally every attacker ever with xern etern and glance existing
B -> C. It just doesnt do anything after cramorant and beak ban, theres better options.
B- -> C. not really outstanding to me, not necessarily deserving of a drop but i cant think of a single reason it should be higher than C
B -> B-. Pretty good mon but absolutely requires setup and still misses out on important calcs even at +1

Also i like ogre too, its a good neutral special wall keep it B or higher

 

[MAMP]

put garchomp on da vr

he does the cb groudon thing but you trade a bit of power and bulk for outspeeding xern palk lun kyub and not tying ho-oh/ogre and hitting tina harder. feels better than groudon on dumbass pivot into breakers teams bc it forces more switches, i find chomp gets more opportunites to click buttons. ive heard tell of some dragon energy set that kills tina also. c or d or something

etern should be a+ or s, it can do anything

solgaleo feels too high? what does he do.
^

agree with keeping ogre up, i like him

 

[SuperSkylake]

Nominations

Palkia A- -> A+: This one's a hot take, but if your team doesn't prepare for Palkia it will be destroyed by it. Palkia's best set is Adapt 3 attacks (Dragon Energy / Fishious Rend / Strength Sap / Steam Eruption), which lets it break through FurScales cores. We have also seen a big rise in Tapu Fini usage to try and hold it off. The three attacks set is weaker against offense because mons like Etern and Zamac force it out sometimes, but switching one of the water moves to Nuzzle helps out a lot there. Espeed Xerneas can force it out but can't actually kill it from full health, but Xerneas can't switch into a Water move. Poison Heal is annoying, but its way inferior to Adapt because Core Enforcer is deadly to that set. Fur Coat Palkia is also not a bad set on offensive teams, with plenty of offensive presence and a soft switchin to Gigas and other anti offense mons.

Mewtwo Ur -> C: Mewtwo has a solid niche as a fast attacker with specs Psysurge or Sheer Force Lo. Being able to soft check Etern is really valuable right now. Psysurge is really cool for priority protection, especially with all the Prankster Parting Shots and Espeeds being ran these days. Just shuts all of that down. SF is also really nice though Etern probably performs that role better.

Type: Null D -> C: With obscene eviolite-boosted bulk, Type: Null can pivot into many choiced attackers including Dmaw Etern (252 SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Eternatus Dragon Energy (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Type: Null: 297-351 (75.3 - 89%) -- guaranteed 2HKO), survive the attack and just get on out of there. The best set is probably a regen pivot, which avoids being totally passive and getting trapped if you run Parting Shot.

Registeel C -> B: Registeel is still as bulky as it always was. I think Prankster Parting Shot is really good on it right now. And having a hard switchin to Xern is really nice too. With parting SHot you just negate any Metronome sweeps they try to do, usually shifting the momentum back to you.



drops
Snorlax D -> ur: I have never seen this mon do anything useful, especially now that people have innovated stuff like Dragon Tail Regigigas, to beat Core Enforcers, which is the main reason you'd use PH Lax.

Darmanitan-Zen b- -> C: This mon is super passive right now. I've tried all sorts of ways to make it less so including Poison Heal and Desoland, but it really hates having to wear HDB, because it's so easily trapped. Add to that it doesn't even beat Metronome Xerneas, as after 3 hits it's taking 50% whereas Lava Plume is only doing 40 back. It also really hates Knock Off, meaning it has to scout for that before it can come in to even defensive mons.

Swampert D -> Ur: With Zacian-C and Bolt Beak both gone, there isn't much reason to use this over another bulky water. The Glacial lance neutrality is actually really bad for it since it can't handle Kyub either. Lower than average stats in all areas just drag this one down.

 

[a loser]

My thoughts on the VR. We need to update this pretty badly so more thoughts would be appreciated!
On the rise
Eternatus

Specs, setup, utility, and more. Good luck reliably walling this guy.​

Xerneas

Pixilate is very good. Poison Heal is very solid. Spore is annoying af. Not many reasons to exclude Xern from your team right now.​

Magearna

Time to bring back FF Air Balloon Mag I guess? Typing is nice and it can run multiple abilities fairly well.​

Groudon

This mon is aging like a fine wine.​

Kyurem-Black

Mold Breaker deletes things when it gets the chance. Choiced or setup can both work well​

Lunala

Fur Coat is really solid despite Dragon Energy doing a million to it. Mold Breaker is rising and it does some neat things too, although it can be one-dimensional. This mon is also a decent No Retreat user and that is kinda cool too.​

Could rise
Regigigas

You absolutely need to check this mon or it can just win. This isn't too hard thanks to a Steel heavy meta, but gigas can prep for this with blades and V-create.​

Zamazenta-Crowned

This mon is everywhere and heavily prepped against but it is still so good. Offensive-ish sets like Tough Claws utility are surprisingly good. You pretty much need this mon on your team even though it can lose to Xern, Etern, and Don at times.​

Yveltal

Not being a fanboy here, but Triage is pretty dang good on this with Zacian-C out of the picture.​

Rayquaza

Triage and Aerilate are pretty neat on this mon. Mixed Aerilate is pretty heat too with like V-create thrown in there.​

Thundurus-T

Triage is good. Are you picking up on this trend? Thundy might stay put, but it is a niche in-between of Ray and Yveltal in terms of power but lacks their bulk. At least it resists their Flying STAB.​

Celesteela

Triage again lol. He can do other things fine too.​

Kartana

We lost a big Steel-type attacker so I think he rises by default. Steelworker, Triage, and Unburden can wreck teams in different ways.​

Ho-Oh

Ho-Oh is highly prepped for too but it is still really good with DesoLand rising, Aerilate having multiple options, and other sets like Bounce being usable.​

Ferrothorn

Checks Palkia, can kinda check Etern if not choiced and teammates are alive, and Spore immunity is nice right now. He does always want 3 abilities and 10 moves, though.​

Golisopod

"This also gave me an excuse to use Golis, which is fun because PH U-turn/Spikes/Wisp/Bunker is a set that you can copy across various mons and it'll prob do well in any given game " - xavgb​

Regieleki

If you don't run moldy hazards with this mon, you are doing it right. Mixed LO Galvanize with Boomburst/Glance/V-create is a nice late game cleaner but annoying to improof. I feel like more could be done with this mon to optimize it.​

Dragapult

Normalize is always an option but Dragon's Maw and Adaptability are nicer options, especially without Zacian-C around.​

Zacian

I guess maybe this has some use again? Pixi Flame Orb is alright but doesn't fit on every team like Xern can.​

Tapu Fini

Etern's rise stinks for Fini but it is still really good and pretty easy to fit on teams.​

Zarude

I had to use this once and it surprisingly wasn't terrible. Not sold on it though.​

Needs to drop
Volcanion

Has anyone actually used this mon? The typing is cool but it actually takes a lot of damage from Pixi Xern and is strapped for moveslots, items, and abilities. Cool on paper, but not great in practice. Also a big pain to improof if you want to run a set that isn't incredibly boring and passive.​

Steelix

I don't see this mon anymore. There are better Steel-types available and with Beak gone and Glance/Rend around, the Ground typing kinda holds it back.​

Swampert

Again, Beak is gone and Glance/Rend are here. Purple Frog is neutral to both, which isn't ideal, and can't stomach Boomburst very well.​

Kyurem-White

You'd think this mon would benefit from the absence of Zacian-C but it actually got worse. Weird. It is still annoying at times but it isn't very good.​

Darmanitan-Zen

Darm-Z got harder to justify using without Zacian-C being around. Groudon owns it and Gigas can put it to sleep cause it has to have boots. Maybe scales could be a thing now? Not sure about this one.​

Victini

If Darm-Z got worse, idk how Victini could be any better. Keep this one for yourself, sl42.​

Could drop
Buzzwole

You can switch in on Groudon and this is cool. What else do you do? I don't see this used and I haven't used it myself, so I'm not sure what to think here. Triage is outclassed by Kartana and BellyBurden is funny but not the best mon for the job.​

Zamazenta

I don't know what this mon does.​

Zekrom

Zekrom is in a weird place. It misses Bolt Beak a ton but it can still mess with teams that rely on Giratina and Tapu Fini as their defensive core, especially when running mixed Adapt sets. You have to watch out for this guy, but it isn't what it once was.​

Snorlax

We'll have to see if sl42 successfully innovates something with this mon, but I for one have not been drawn to use Snorlax lately​

Marshadow

This mon is weird. Has like no bulk and isn't as strong or as fast as it wants to be to really get things done.​

 

[SuperSkylake]

Some thoughts on loser's noms

Ferrothorn: this doesn't really check Palk because it doesn't have room to run an offensive move to hit it and then just gets sapped or nuzzled anyway. Or it gets burned by Steam Eruption. I'd rank it at D honestly as it's generally outclassed by everything in general.

Golis: Golis is cool, both with PH and FC. C Rank.

Zacian: Flame Orb Facade is pretty solid as speed control, as you're hitting with a 168 BP move before stab and the improofing is really easy. The other cool set on Zacian is Water Absorb support, as you completely shut down Palkia and Rain teams and Flip Turn users. This does leave you open to special bulky offense mons like Resh though because physical offensive Fairy moves are junk. My favorite set is Spirit Break / Knock Off / Stealth Rock / Strength Sap, which offers pretty solid utility. After a Spirit Break, Etern can't 2hKO you with Sludge Wave after its Specs are knocked off, though you still want to get out of there. I would rank it at D but borderline C now that Zac-c is gone. Also, you have a fast check to band guys like don either with psychoshift on the Flame Orb set or Strength Sap on the Water Absorb.

Tapu Fini: Definitely good, I would rate it at B+ because it's probably the most splashable Palkia switchin available. PH is probably the best set overall, though it really has 4mss there.

Volcanion D -> Ur: Definitely drop this. It literally can't do anything that Darm-Z can, and Darm-Z is already looking bad.

Steelix: also useless. Soundproof might be okay except Fishious just kills it anyway, maybe pair with desoland ho-oh to make yourself xern-proof ...

Kyuw: Outclassed by other Dragon types sadly. And Ice types as well.

Victini: I actually think Victini might be better than Darm-z in this meta, because it can outspeed Xerneas, which is huge. It also has an okayish V-Create. worth exploring more.

Buzzwole, zama, marshadow: Agree with all of these. Fighting types are tough to compete with zamac.

Triage mons: Triage is definitely on the rise. Yveltal is probably the best one since it can also run a physical adapt set to surprise counters, giving it some unpredictability. Celesteela is second on the offense front, due to its insane typing and bulk. I would put Celesteela at B- on the strength of its Triage set along with the potential to run more defensive sets as well. Yveltal is probably also a B- rank threat on the merits of Triage and being able to go mixed.

 

[XxLazzerpenguinxX]

put garchomp on da vr

he does the cb groudon thing but you trade a bit of power and bulk for outspeeding xern palk lun kyub and not tying ho-oh/ogre and hitting tina harder. feels better than groudon on dumbass pivot into breakers teams bc it forces more switches, i find chomp gets more opportunites to click buttons. ive heard tell of some dragon energy set that kills tina also. c or d or something

etern should be a+ or s, it can do anything

solgaleo feels too high? what does he do.
^

agree with keeping ogre up, i like him

I agree with pretty much all of these. I do feel like Garchomp should be D tier, since it does have a nice niche that Groudon doesn't really have, and it's speed tier can be nice sometimes.

I think Etern should definitely be S tier. It's ability to play practically any role in a team be it Mold Breaker / Simple / Adapt / D Maw / Fur Coat / Ice Scales / Magic Bounce and be one of the best pokemon to use any of these abilities is pretty much insane, and the fact that all of its offensive sets require a different way of playing around it makes it a very meta-impactful pokemon and dan, thus deserving of the S rank.

I think B+ is a little too high for Solgaleo, I agree. It should be bumped down to a B which follows the general meta trends of steels overall sucking. I think the niche that it has over other steels, and why it's generally placed above them is that it's one of the few bulky Fairy resists (that's steel) and can still be semi-non-passive with it's 137 base attack. It's hp stat means that it's bulker than Necrozma Dusk-Man which is why it's placed above it.

Yeah, meta hasn't been too kind to purple frog unfortunately. :weary: The fact that it's a water type and not an ice resist is kind of dire cuz glacial lance just murders it, but I think it should still have a place on the VR as a D ranked pokemon. When building teams there are some nice niches it can find due to its mono-grass weakness. It can perform the role a pinch prankster pokemon or a trapping fc pokemon that can pivot w/ volt switch.

Nominations

Palkia A- -> A+: This one's a hot take, but if your team doesn't prepare for Palkia it will be destroyed by it. Palkia's best set is Adapt 3 attacks (Dragon Energy / Fishious Rend / Strength Sap / Steam Eruption), which lets it break through FurScales cores. We have also seen a big rise in Tapu Fini usage to try and hold it off. The three attacks set is weaker against offense because mons like Etern and Zamac force it out sometimes, but switching one of the water moves to Nuzzle helps out a lot there. Espeed Xerneas can force it out but can't actually kill it from full health, but Xerneas can't switch into a Water move. Poison Heal is annoying, but its way inferior to Adapt because Core Enforcer is deadly to that set. Fur Coat Palkia is also not a bad set on offensive teams, with plenty of offensive presence and a soft switchin to Gigas and other anti offense mons.

Mewtwo Ur -> C: Mewtwo has a solid niche as a fast attacker with specs Psysurge or Sheer Force Lo. Being able to soft check Etern is really valuable right now. Psysurge is really cool for priority protection, especially with all the Prankster Parting Shots and Espeeds being ran these days. Just shuts all of that down. SF is also really nice though Etern probably performs that role better.

Type: Null D -> C: With obscene eviolite-boosted bulk, Type: Null can pivot into many choiced attackers including Dmaw Etern (252 SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Eternatus Dragon Energy (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Type: Null: 297-351 (75.3 - 89%) -- guaranteed 2HKO), survive the attack and just get on out of there. The best set is probably a regen pivot, which avoids being totally passive and getting trapped if you run Parting Shot.

Registeel C -> B: Registeel is still as bulky as it always was. I think Prankster Parting Shot is really good on it right now. And having a hard switchin to Xern is really nice too. With parting SHot you just negate any Metronome sweeps they try to do, usually shifting the momentum back to you.



drops
Snorlax D -> ur: I have never seen this mon do anything useful, especially now that people have innovated stuff like Dragon Tail Regigigas, to beat Core Enforcers, which is the main reason you'd use PH Lax.

Darmanitan-Zen b- -> C: This mon is super passive right now. I've tried all sorts of ways to make it less so including Poison Heal and Desoland, but it really hates having to wear HDB, because it's so easily trapped. Add to that it doesn't even beat Metronome Xerneas, as after 3 hits it's taking 50% whereas Lava Plume is only doing 40 back. It also really hates Knock Off, meaning it has to scout for that before it can come in to even defensive mons.

Swampert D -> Ur: With Zacian-C and Bolt Beak both gone, there isn't much reason to use this over another bulky water. The Glacial lance neutrality is actually really bad for it since it can't handle Kyub either. Lower than average stats in all areas just drag this one down.

I unfortunately can't see Palkia rising to A+ right now. Maybe it is an A+ caliber pokemon, but it had a really low usage in OMPL, and these were generally defensive sets as well Pre Zac-C ban. We saw a glimpse of Tinted Lense Palkia but that set didn't exactly perform as planned. On a more theoretical level, I don't think it should rise because pokemon like Tapu FIni are really easy to fit on many team structures which often just stop Palkia in its tracks. Xerneas + Eternatus' popularity also makes in tough for Palkia as it can have a hard time coming in against bulky offense team structures, and has to always pick between weather to use Fishious Rend of Dragon Energy. Pokemon like Deso Land Ho-oh also make it annoying for this mon to find opportunities. In general, there hasn't been a meta trend that really argues for the rise of Palkia, and its lack of use in OMPL I feel like doesn't help its cause either. Right now I think it's good at A-, but definetely a mon to watch.

I agree with mewtwo it definetely feels like a C pokemon. Psychic Surge sets are cool, but pheal sets feel a lot stronger. The ability to win quiver dance wars against Xern I think is pretty epic, and base 130 speed is also really nice.

I do agree with Type: Null having an obscene amount of bulk, but a look at VR kinda shows us in general where meta / many people see the places of many of these neutral pranks / regen mons at. When looking at the VR we see Cresselia / Dusclops / Type: Null all at the D-rank. This is mainly due to the fact that these pokemon are major momentum sappers, and will rarely be a set dedicated to progress. I don't think pokemon as passive as these are often seen only as support mons should be above D-rank. Regen Type: Null is cool but i've only seen in specifcally used on TTTech builds, and as consistent as they are on ladder and have shown to be effective, I'm not convinced that this is an optimal playstyle. And when Type: Null's best set is on a "suboptimal" playstyle, I don't think a rating above D-rank is warranted.

Semi-agree with registeel here. As talked about earlier ultra passive sets are really on the low right now, but registeel is kinda nice sometimes as a really consistent Fairy resist. I think it definitely has gotten better due to its ability to midground many Eternatus & Xerneas sets if it doesn't hard counter them, but I'd still only raise it to B- since it's still really passive.

My thoughts on the VR. We need to update this pretty badly so more thoughts would be appreciated!
On the rise
Eternatus

Specs, setup, utility, and more. Good luck reliably walling this guy.​

Xerneas

Pixilate is very good. Poison Heal is very solid. Spore is annoying af. Not many reasons to exclude Xern from your team right now.​

Magearna

Time to bring back FF Air Balloon Mag I guess? Typing is nice and it can run multiple abilities fairly well.​

Groudon

This mon is aging like a fine wine.​

Kyurem-Black

Mold Breaker deletes things when it gets the chance. Choiced or setup can both work well​

Lunala

Fur Coat is really solid despite Dragon Energy doing a million to it. Mold Breaker is rising and it does some neat things too, although it can be one-dimensional. This mon is also a decent No Retreat user and that is kinda cool too.​

Could rise
Regigigas

You absolutely need to check this mon or it can just win. This isn't too hard thanks to a Steel heavy meta, but gigas can prep for this with blades and V-create.​

Zamazenta-Crowned

This mon is everywhere and heavily prepped against but it is still so good. Offensive-ish sets like Tough Claws utility are surprisingly good. You pretty much need this mon on your team even though it can lose to Xern, Etern, and Don at times.​

Yveltal

Not being a fanboy here, but Triage is pretty dang good on this with Zacian-C out of the picture.​

Rayquaza

Triage and Aerilate are pretty neat on this mon. Mixed Aerilate is pretty heat too with like V-create thrown in there.​

Thundurus-T

Triage is good. Are you picking up on this trend? Thundy might stay put, but it is a niche in-between of Ray and Yveltal in terms of power but lacks their bulk. At least it resists their Flying STAB.​

Celesteela

Triage again lol. He can do other things fine too.​

Kartana

We lost a big Steel-type attacker so I think he rises by default. Steelworker, Triage, and Unburden can wreck teams in different ways.​

Ho-Oh

Ho-Oh is highly prepped for too but it is still really good with DesoLand rising, Aerilate having multiple options, and other sets like Bounce being usable.​

Ferrothorn

Checks Palkia, can kinda check Etern if not choiced and teammates are alive, and Spore immunity is nice right now. He does always want 3 abilities and 10 moves, though.​

Golisopod

"This also gave me an excuse to use Golis, which is fun because PH U-turn/Spikes/Wisp/Bunker is a set that you can copy across various mons and it'll prob do well in any given game " - xavgb​

Regieleki

If you don't run moldy hazards with this mon, you are doing it right. Mixed LO Galvanize with Boomburst/Glance/V-create is a nice late game cleaner but annoying to improof. I feel like more could be done with this mon to optimize it.​

Dragapult

Normalize is always an option but Dragon's Maw and Adaptability are nicer options, especially without Zacian-C around.​

Zacian

I guess maybe this has some use again? Pixi Flame Orb is alright but doesn't fit on every team like Xern can.​

Tapu Fini

Etern's rise stinks for Fini but it is still really good and pretty easy to fit on teams.​

Zarude

I had to use this once and it surprisingly wasn't terrible. Not sold on it though.​

Needs to drop
Volcanion

Has anyone actually used this mon? The typing is cool but it actually takes a lot of damage from Pixi Xern and is strapped for moveslots, items, and abilities. Cool on paper, but not great in practice. Also a big pain to improof if you want to run a set that isn't incredibly boring and passive.​

Steelix

I don't see this mon anymore. There are better Steel-types available and with Beak gone and Glance/Rend around, the Ground typing kinda holds it back.​

Swampert

Again, Beak is gone and Glance/Rend are here. Purple Frog is neutral to both, which isn't ideal, and can't stomach Boomburst very well.​

Kyurem-White

You'd think this mon would benefit from the absence of Zacian-C but it actually got worse. Weird. It is still annoying at times but it isn't very good.​

Darmanitan-Zen

Darm-Z got harder to justify using without Zacian-C being around. Groudon owns it and Gigas can put it to sleep cause it has to have boots. Maybe scales could be a thing now? Not sure about this one.​

Victini

If Darm-Z got worse, idk how Victini could be any better. Keep this one for yourself, sl42.​

Could drop
Buzzwole

You can switch in on Groudon and this is cool. What else do you do? I don't see this used and I haven't used it myself, so I'm not sure what to think here. Triage is outclassed by Kartana and BellyBurden is funny but not the best mon for the job.​

Zamazenta

I don't know what this mon does.​

Zekrom

Zekrom is in a weird place. It misses Bolt Beak a ton but it can still mess with teams that rely on Giratina and Tapu Fini as their defensive core, especially when running mixed Adapt sets. You have to watch out for this guy, but it isn't what it once was.​

Snorlax

We'll have to see if sl42 successfully innovates something with this mon, but I for one have not been drawn to use Snorlax lately​

Marshadow

This mon is weird. Has like no bulk and isn't as strong or as fast as it wants to be to really get things done.​

I agree with all of Loser's rises. They're all really strong pokemon and have shown to be some of the best pokemon in the current metagame. Xern and Eternatus obviously got insanely better. There's been so much exploration around groudon between its mold breaker, adapt, soundproof, and ice scales sets. Mag rises as a result of checking the top two pokemon right now w/ its typing. Kyurem-b is an insane breaker that has to be accounted for in builder and fc / mold breaker lunala sets are really solid.

With regards to the could rise sets. I think zamazenta-c is fine at A+. It's not that active and i think it needs to do too much, and can't do enough to be S tier. Still the dumbest wall in the game thought lol. I don't really think I've seen Regigigas get all that better. It's always been a really threatening mon, but I don't think its gotten all that better after Zac-C ban. Yveltal, Ray, and Thundy I actually agree should get a rise. I've been owned far too many times by triage to not consider it a major threat now. Boom ray w/ V-create is also heat and shouldn't be underestimated. Celesteela I actually feel like is definetely on the rise. Not only has triage gotten a major buff, but defensive sets such as prim sea are also really strong right now, as its unique typing makes it a really solid check for many of the current Eternatus sets, and it can also check non t cage xerneas sets in a pinch. The rest of the pokemon listed I can't really see as increasing, I think they're all in solid places on the VR. I don't really see how Zarude could be that good lol when it gets sent to smithereens by every offensive pokemon right now, and can't do much on the offensive end with Zamazenta-C playing around. Maybe D rank? but definetely not higher.

I agree with all the pokemon needing to be dropped, it's pretty clear that they've gotten worse, except for Victini. I feel like Victini should still stay on the VR. It has a nice speed tier, and deso land sets are still cool. Hard to use but still def D tier.

All the pokemon that could drop I feel like are actually pokemon that should be dropped except for Zekrom. Mixed adapt is still really strong, and mold breaker / adapt all out attacking sets I feel like definetely warrants B tier.

These were my thoughts on the above posts, but I'll post my noms as well soon when I get the chance.

 

[xavgb]

Some quick comments on the noms

Xern should be sole S imo, utility variants are very helpful providing a switchin to some of the toughest breakers around like Groudon and Kyu-B, while also being the best removal in the tier and a pretty free way to generate momentum against various defensive mons. Boomburst/V-create/Espeed/Volt Switch Pixilate also happens to be at least top 2 breakers in the tier with tons of practicality in terms of being able to Volt all over the place, fitting extra speed control onto your teams, and being able to break through Xern switchins like Ice Scales Zama-C even when at low health. PH is also super dangerous right now, while providing utility as a hard stop to some otherwise annoying progress makers like Scald + Core Enforcer PH Tina/PH Fini. It's practically pointless to justify not using Xern right now, there's almost always something that it can do for your team that it'll also be better at than any other option available.

The other big danger special attacker right now, this one should be in A+ imo. It's much easier to get away with not using Etern as it doesn't really provide the same type of specific defensive or structural utility and is pretty much solely a breaker. Specs has some annoying natural weaknesses but Moldy is still very scary in practice, a lot of teams that were made during the earlier stages of OMPL (before moldy np etern existed) practically hard lose and it's still fairly consistent in the long-term against most current teams. That being said, it does feel like a mon that really appreciates hazard support to help it weaken threats like Groudon/Imposter/Regigigas, and that commitment to hazards + Etern can be rough when dealing with opposing offensive threats. Overall I feel like even though Etern is pretty busted in its own way, it shouldn't be put in the same rank as Xern due to the fact that it's more limited in what it can provide to a team.


Agree with sevag on Palkia and Mewtwo, can also probably bump Groudon to like A and Kyu-B to A-

Ferro's pretty decent, provides a quick way to not auto-lose to PH Xern/PH Regi and cancels weather so despite its poor bulk it's pretty good at not getting cheesed. Flip/Knock/Entrain/Recover Primsea is defo the best set imo, slow pivot + Knock + Entrain is a powerful combo for maintaining initiative, and being able to Knock moldy Etern is really good for cutting its potential to cheese through the rest of your team. Also avoids losing immediately to V-Create Xern, unfortunately loses to Specs though. Could probably be in like B-, definitely shouldn't drop in any case.

Good mon with Aerilate, not amazing defensively but it can make use of good stat distribution and being not passive. Another mon that maintains momentum very well and provides a small amount of very important things like -ate Spin and not autolosing to Triage Kart. Boom/Spin/Anchor/Roost with Lefties is the way to go here, which allows you to threaten to trap mons in various situations (gotta be careful to make sure you actually win vs certain Steel type sets) and gives you a good move to hit anything that doesn't care about being trapped. Has a similar deal to defensive Aerilate Ho-Oh where it's good at spinning and frees up your Xern to run something cool which is very valuable, except it can abuse its speed a bit more and Boomburst hits harder than Knock.

Lax is fine for D rank, notable special bulk increase compared to Regi is cool given that Regi already tries to take on special mons like PH Xern/sometimes Moldy Etern.

Fini absolutely needs to rise, once that + other things I mentioned gets implemented then B+ downwards makes sense.

I don't really like Lunala or Triage right now but they should absolutely rise based on their recent tour usage.

Should probably rise a bunch of shit from D rank after getting actual use in serious games. On a first look through Blace/Steela/Cress/Clops/maybe Null? and a few more you could argue for should rise.

Could probably do more noms but they're largely trivial things

 

[a loser]

I'm back. Instead of beating a dead horse and talking about Xern and Etern more, I'm going to talk about a dead horse.

Spectrier @ Choice Specs
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Astral Barrage
- Moongeist Beam
- Volt Switch
- Trick / Focus Blast / Lunar Dance / whatever you need

This mon has a unique place in the current metagame as nothing outside of Regigigas is really able to switch into it reliably. Moongeist is a pretty clean 2HKO on Ice Scales Zama-C with Leftovers. This means Xerneas and Regigigas don't mind having this as a teammate to put even more pressure on Zama-C, Giratina, and the other slow fat mons that hope to wall things. The speed tier is also pretty nice to outpace Zama-C and the powerful Modest Eternatus sets. I don't think much of a rise is warranted here yet, but at least C rank seems worthy for now.

 

[cityscapes]

i am making this post to generate arguments because i consider it preferable to not saying anything and silently shooting down all the pokemon i hate when it comes time to vote. please argue with me

disagree with this moving up. i ran the actual best set in the game adapt rend/draco/zap cannon/sap life orb, it was good but palk just has a really annoying time coming in and you’re terrified of etern and xern, there’s also the issue that no one except me is brave enough to use this set so you guys are just getting walled by fini out here. ridiculous.

what are the sets on these? i covered issues with yveltal in my previous post, the thing with hooh to me is that etern sap and fc are all quite common right now, and desolate land (imo the best hooh) doesn’t have much for them.

this dude is honestly alright cause elec resists will always be at least a little bit in fashion. regenvest probably best with fc and water/fire immune as secondary options (haven’t considered scales). you can also beat cage xern without having excadrill on your team.

dlc1 band desolate land trick toxic roost still seems decent, you outspeed xern and hit for way too much plus you have trick.

coil bp is the set i’ve been using, it’s very cheesy but you still have new age huhshrug type stuff (speaking of which lax is 50x better at passing subs than null or the dire chansey cause you can’t get knocked and hit for actual damage)

i don’t like this guy. it’s like mmy last gen except you get 0 kills on anything and still lose to imposter. cage spore is good but my dog can also run that and get 3 kills per game despite not having poison heal (vet did not recommend feeding her chocolate to “heal” her). this reminded me to try out cage ph raikou which can only lose if they dodge all 16 ice beam freezes. at least mewtwo uhhhhh speed ties etern, very cool

this might be the gen7 boomer in me talking but i always run regenvest and this guy isn’t so good against that. this isn’t 2018 where you could run special attacker + imposter and autowin vs everything. still decent and maybe c rank but it sounds so annoying to build around, even stall will just shield you with the ph mon

stop using guys that lose to paraspam (rainbow offense post coming after seasonal)

 

[a loser]

i am making this post to generate arguments

Yveltal runs Triage + Spore and whatever coverage you need in order to hit random guys and keep a viable Imposter-proof. Spore annoys Zama-C but it actually doesn't have to run this, it can do things like Low Kick and V-create to just hit Scales/Unaware really hard when it Anchor Shots you after being tickled by Oblivion Wing. Then you have the BellyBurden set that is going around and this guy is pretty annoying at times too. Any non-offensive set is probably terrible though and these are the main ones keeping Yveltal somewhat relevant. I don't think it should rise really, but I think these sets should keep it around where it is at the moment.

Ever since I posted about Spectrier, people started running Normal-types on the ladder again and this isn't cool. It does need teammates that can account for this but that isn't too much to ask for when Zama-C is so easy to fit on teams. I didn't mention RegenVest in my initial post but this of course can check Spectrier too. I still think it deserves a rise though thanks to its Speed tier and pretty spammable moves. Imposter never wants to switch into it either and this is a big plus (unlike Mewtwo).

I've never built with this but I already love the idea of losing to Giratina, Zama-C, and Eternatus. Trick is annoying yeah but I feel like someone who isn't weak to Stealth Rock could do this better? I just put this mon in the builder and I'm already strapped for move slots. Does it pivot? Does it check anything well with rocks up? Who do you use to improof your set? I'm just not really sure what to do with this mon. I tried out V-create / Photon / Trick and it seems ok at certain things but lacking in many areas too.

 

[a loser]

The Viability Rankings have been updated! Thank you to everyone who contributed their thoughts as this is very helpful for us to determine the final rankings for all of these mons. Here's a summary of the changes to the VR:

Rises

Celesteela D -> B-

Celesteela is proving to be tough to break with defensive sets like Primordial Sea that check a lot of Eternatus variants and has some breaking potential with Triage as well.​

Eternatus A- -> A+

Eternatus is a fearsome breaker who can run a handful of abilities well, like Dragon's Maw, Adaptability, Mold Breaker, Simple, and several others. It offers some defensive utility as well with it's interesting typing, which allows it to be a decent Fur Coat or Ice Scales user and even use other abilities like Magic Bounce and Regenerator. All this makes Eternatus one of the best mons in the meta.​

Lunala C -> B

Lunala is mainly rising due to its Fur Coat set with Nuzzle, Hex, and Core Enforcer which allows it to check lots of physical threats and annoy foes with paralysis. Other sets like Mold Breaker Glare with hazards are also seeing use and provide some good team support. The crippling weaknesses to Dark- and Ghost-type attacks definitely hold it back some though.​

Golisopod D -> C

Golisopod is another Fur Coat mon on the rise that can check physical breakers like Groudon and Kyurem-B better that other physical walls like Lunala and Zama-C.​

Groudon B -> A-

Adaptability and Mold Breaker are Groudon's better sets at the moment, but others like Soundproof and Ice Scales are being used more recently and this only adds to Groudon's viabilty.​

Kyurem-Black B -> B+

Not much can handle this mon after it sets up and not many mons want to switch into its Choice Band boosted attacks. It is a very strong breaker but it is still held back by its Speed, vulnerability to hazards, and can struggle with mons like Xerneas and Tapu Fini.​

Magearna C -> B-

Its typing alone merits a rise in a meta with so much Eternatus and Xerneas usage. It can play a few roles quite well but still leaves a bit to be desired in terms of bulk (and number of moveslots).​

Xerneas A+ -> S

By far the best mon in the meta right now. While it does have checks, its Pixilate sets are able to break past many mons including Eternatus and Zama-C and it is bulky enough to play around them at times too. Pixilate sets have a lot of variety too, with Heavy-Duty Boots, Pixie Plate, and Metronome all letting it play slightly different roles. Coverage moves like Fishious Rend, V-create, and Diamond Storm let it take advantage of certain walls and break past would be checks. Then there is Poison Heal that gets to use funny moves like Thunder Cage and Spore to trap and KO foes or just set Spikes like the old days and spam Moonblast.​

Rayquaza C -> B-

Although it is frail, Rayquaza is showing to be potent offensively with Triage and Aerilate sets that are able to break past walls and pretty effectively deal with Zama-C too.​

Tapu Fini B+ -> A-

Tapu Fini is increasingly easy to fit on teams with its very solid typing and ability to play multiple roles like Poison Heal, Prankster, Fur Coat, Magic Bounce, and more.​

Blacephalon D -> C

Although this mon can be hard to use at times, Blacephalon's dual STAB typing and mixed offenses can make things difficult on fatter teams.​

Cresselia D -> C

Cresselia's very good bulk lets it play a number of roles like Prankster and Ice Scales fairly well and its pure Psychic-typing means it doesn't take a ton from popular move typings like Dragon, Fairy, Ice, and Ground.​

Kartana B- -> B

Kartana's huge Attack stat got more usable with Zacian-C fully out of the picture and outspeeding Xerneas is very good for it. Steelworker, Triage, and other sets can be very scary.​

Drops

Kyurem-White B- -> D

Despite the huge Special Attack, Kyurem-W faces huge competition with other special attackers like Xerneas and Eternatus while lacking the ability to deal with Zama-C like others can. It is very hard to justify using this mon right now.​

Swampert C -> D

Swampert's niche is not near as relevant as it used to be, but it still has a nice typing and decent bulk to go with it.​

Yveltal B -> B-

Offensive sets like Triage and Unburden kept Yveltal from falling too far, but Yveltal's Dark-typing is a big downside for it in a meta with so many Fairy-types like Xerneas, Tapu Fini, and Magearna.​

Darmanitan-Zen B- -> C

Darm-Z's main niche of checking Zacian-C is gone. It hates Groudon a lot and can't stand up to many Xerneas sets for long. This mon is dropping until a new use is discovered for it.​

Buzzwole D -> UR

There is no reason to use this mon.​

Reshiram B -> B-

This mon has a lot of potential offensively but can be hard to use at times and tough to Imposter-proof depending on the set. Reshiram also doesn't appreciate the prevalence of Eternatus, Xerneas, Tapu Fini, and Primordial Sea.​

Solgaleo B+ -> B

Resisting STAB from Eternatus and Xerneas is very nice, but coverage moves and strong physical breakers are not kind to Solgaleo. It has nice utility but can struggle with trying to compress too many roles, making it less effective at times.​

Volcanion D -> UR

There is no reason to use this mon.​

Zamazenta C -> D

Being a fast, fairly bulky offensive Fighting-type is the only thing keeping this around for now.​

Zekrom B -> B-

Zekrom faces stiff competition from both Kyu-B and Palkia but holds a niche of being able to deal with the Dragon, Water, and Fairy typings that these two can struggle with.​

Zygarde-Complete B+ -> B

This mon is in an interesting spot right now as its bulk is still huge but its typing is getting in its way. RegenVest is in a decent spot right now, along with Poison Heal being alright.​

Urshifu-Single-Strike D -> UR

Long gone are the days when this mon could run Poison Heal effectively. The best this guy can do right now is BellyBurden or Choice Band and it is outclassed pretty heavily in every role it tries.​

Newcomers

Garchomp UR -> D

Garchomp has carved a niche as a speedier Ground-type that can also deal with Dragon-types better than Groudon. It is harder to use, though, and requires more team support to really thrive.​

Mewtwo UR -> D

Mewtwo has seen some increased usage on the ladder and in tournaments. It offers an interesting Poison Heal alternative with Thunder Cage and Spore that can deal with Eternatus and Xerneas fairly well and its Psychic Surge set puts pressure on priority attackers, which have been on the rise lately.​

Zacian UR -> D

With Zacian-C being gone, Zacian (hero of many battles) is just relevant enough to be ranked again. It has nice Speed and good enough Attack to get some things done but is outclassed by Xerneas along with other Fairy-types that offer better defensive utility.​

We'll work on getting the Speed Tiers updated soon and you can also look for new Sample Teams to be released in the near future!

 

[avyrie]

really like how the vr has been getting its act together lately, given the current vr I feel most of the mons are quite in place for the current meta, well done :D
just gonna suggest a few tweaks to the lower stuff:
Kartana deserves B+. Despite its nonexistent special bulk, it can come in on a lot of physical moves like gigas facade, zekrom bolt strike, palkia rend, and can even live band don's pblades (adapt is 31.3% roll tho) and special dragon coverage/xern in a pinch, thanks to its useful resistances and it's not weak to rocks. I feel this makes it on par with, or even gives it an edge above kyub, the only B+ mon rn, as you want kyub to be as healthy as possible. Given its offensive capability is far from lacking, I feel like kart should definitely go beyond B.

Dialga to B-. It's a solid regenvest mon? doom desire? prank?? do they even exist I swear I haven't seen dialga used in months. I know they're solid sets from previous iterations of metas (prank was cool for zacc until they start to use pblades ._.), it has a unique set of resists over other steels mainly electric and grass, but losing the resist to dragon really sucks, it's supposed to wall zekrom/palkia/etern etc but it needs ice scales and that's mega passive. it's just quite hard to fit dialga on a team rn. The other B mons all feel easier to use and more relevant to the current meta, while dialga seems on par with necrozma dm and the likes in B-.

Celesteela should get least get B. Personally I'd give this B+ but B probably fits the vr more. It's super role compressing, with prim sea its resists is extremely valuable, offers trapping and hazards/removal/status/entrainment and it's incredibly annoying to deal with. Also one of the best utility triage users, it walls stuff like don and gigas just as fine and hits hard, can spread status and still has reliable recovery. The only thing bothering celesteela is just tcage xern but otherwise it can make some cool doubles bc very few things can come in on it with low risk and threaten it out. viability feels above ogre/solg/zygc tbh

Rayquaza to B. Just the same reasons as loser mentioned, tho it feels better than resh/yvel/zekrom since a lot of teams lack flying resists and boomburst can just take kills. explosion is also a cool tool on ho (not niche!!)

Spectrier to C. idk if I'm influenced by loser too much but I'm super impressed by the horse's offensive capabilities, ice scales mons get 2hko'd by moongeist and ghost resists have also been dropping, with the best check actually being gigas. yvel just gets volt switch'd on, null kinda does too and umbreon is bad. It has a speed/ slight damage advantage over lunala so it's quite far from being completely outclassed. Even though the horse has little to no defensive utility and it only has 1 set, it's not a niche mon which sets itself apart from the D tier.

 

[MAMP]

| rises
a+ -> s
best mon in the tier. fast, strong, bulky, flexible, truly nightmarish to prepare for and play around.

d -> b
this has been catching on lately, but i'd go even further than c. spectrier is pretty one-note but it's a really strong note. outspeeds almost everything and against teams without gigas this gets a kill every time it comes in. i feel like this is one of the best breakers in the tier currently, easily feels a cut above anything in c

c -> b-
similar to spectrier but trades the speed for more power + really strong fire stabs to take out gigas and other random ghost resists. mixed adapt lo with astral/moongeist/v-create lacks longevity but is completely unwallable while still outspeeding most of the tier and having a free moveslot for whatever, feels almost unfair against fat teams

b- > b
fire immune sets to check etern are solid and the pixilate sets are as good as ever. super versatile and so good on paraspam. some teams rely on anchor zama/etern to pressure xerneas and they often struggle with gear

b- -> b
ppl talked about this above and i agree with them. flying resists are very scarce and ray is a great webs abuser, really flexible breaker and the utility of a very strong aerilate espeed/triage owing is huge

d -> c
similar to the above. less flexible than rayquaza but outspeeds xern and palk which is sick

d -> c
mewtwo is like, fine. don't have much to say about this mon, just feels disrespectful to have him down with shit like dusclops. psychic surge is really funny against prankster parting shot which has gotten popular lately

d -> c
i've been running this mon a lot and i think he's well-positioned. speed tier is really nice and ph, tough claws, and pixilate drum (not a joke) are all good sets. wrote about it a bit here: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/balanced-hackmons.3656408/page-36#post-9005000

d -> c
lo tough claws zamazenta is legit, it's fast as fuck and has so many strong coverage options. benefits from zama-c running fc less often and aerilate ho-oh being a bit less popular. wrote about it in this post: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/balanced-hackmons.3656408/page-35#post-8965297

replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8balancedhackmons-1417681910
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8balancedhackmons-1417181620-1en8nu3me5kode8bbxecbjvrw7o4xwepw

| drops
a- -> b+
feels easy to exploit and palk is increasingly running pivoting or spikes or other ways to make progress against this.

b -> b-/c
offensive sets on this suck and having a fairy resist doesn't feel like a good enough justification to run this over zama-c most of the time, has so much less utility/flexibility. the dark/ghost weaknesses suck ass against spectrier, lunala, wicked blow gigas, random spectrals/knocks etc. i only ever run this if im slapping on a last mon steel but im too weak to xern or ho-oh to run zama-c and it always feels awful

b- -> c/d
same as above but worse. simple shift gear set is dece but i don't think this does much else, and its not worth ranking him this high

d -> ur
none of these feel worth using atm. there's other questionable guys in d too like dusclops but i don't want to remove him, for onyx's sake

 

[Tea Guzzler]

Thought i'd chip in a little since no-one's spoken here in a while
(Rises)
A+ -> S. Ridiculously powerful mon that puts an immense pressure on teams both in builder and in game, as it has the flexibility to choose what checks it wants to beat without really losing viability. Can viably be both offensive or defensive, even arguably questionable sets like specs maw or corrosion usually force you to concede momentum to not get run over
D -> B. Chunks pretty much everything in the meta for huge damage and volt switch lets it maintain momentum against the things it can't break through. Only things really holding it back are the prevalence of gigas and vest being popular but with zamac being so good these aren't massive issues
C -> B+. Plays differently to spectrier, higher damage output and fire stab in exchange for the speed and a rocks weakness. Does absolutely massive damage whenever it gets in, the mandatory pivot support really isn't too bad considering most are great rn
B- -> B+. Nuclear mon, flying stab is ridiculously strong and it can act as a great cleaner. Similar power level to blace but spikes immunity and not fearing zamac is great. Triage also doubles down on the cleaning aspect, has an easier time than celesteela but needs more pressure on imp to do so
B -> B+. Probably the least passive regenvest mon which is great, doom desire is stupidly good support, has pretty good physical bulk. Can threaten a large amount of defensive mons both with core and with doom desire -> breaker
B- -> B. Great defensive option that offers a lot of role compression, has a lot of set variety and stonewalls a large chunk of common etern sets
D -> C/B-. Excellent late game cleaner, great speed tier and really good stab lets it deal a lot of damage to weakened teams. Can also go poison heal and annoy things mid-game which is valuable
D -> C. Similar to the above, though exchanges fairy stab for the item slot. Can similarly clean through weakened teams but can't really be used midgame much
D -> C. People have started running actual sets and giving this team support, which puts teams that rely on traditional counterplay methods (bounce/status/priority) in a really dodgy spot. 4mss (namely the lack of recovery) hurts it a lot and forcing you to play pretty much 5-6 until both the enemy is fully scouted + important threats dealt with holds it back
(Drops)
B -> C. Really doesn't do a whole lot, can't do offence well and other steel types have notable advantages if going for furscales/psea. Psychic type is only a drawback and speed advantage over non-zama steels isn't particularly impactful
B- -> C. Pretty much the same as solgaleo, but has at least some offensive utility with stab on 2 moldy moves. Simplegear/drumburden are basically it's only sets and they really aren't too reliable
D -> UR. Why is this even still ranked, it's ridiculously frail and most teams will always have a switchin. No set diversity and struggles to hit the field, let alone get kills
D-> UR. Electric resists are plentiful and it doesn't offer anything that isn't done well by groudon or even zyg-c. Checks zekrom & kyurem-b pretty well but zekrom's not really common enough and kyurem can pretty reasonably be limited by whatever else'd be here

 

[Onyx Onix 7]

I'm mostly in agreement with Tea Guzzler and his nominations. However, I'd like to nominate a few other pokemon for potential shifts on the viability rankings:

Dusclops D - - > C:

Dusclops functions the same as Cresselia except it has a much stronger match-up against Xerneas and Regigigas because it can easily switch into their STABS and Neutralize them with Entraiment. Thus, it doesn't make too much sense that it's rated lower on the VR than its cousin, Cresselia.

Type: Null D - - > C:

Same thing as Dusclops, Type: Null is just a bulkier Cresselia that can deal with Ghost Types such as Blacephelon, Specterier, and Lunala. As such given the notable advantages, it gains in exchange for the item slot it doesn't make much sense to have it lower on the VR.

Giratina-O D - - > C:

Giratina Origin Forme has the niche of being able to hold Griseous Orb to make its Core Enforcer and Hexes more powerful than Lunalas. Additionally, it lacks the times 4 weakness of Dark and Ghost making it a much more reliable physical wall. Since it possesses these traits there isn't a good reason for it to be D-Rank given it can easily make as much progress over the course of a game as its cousin Lunala.

Melmetal C - - > D:

Melmetal is outclassed as a physical wall by Zamazenta which is significantly less passive, has more speed, and can take some special hits. Additionally, its Primordial Sea sets are outclassed by Celesteela, Ferrothorn, and Magearna because they can take hits from Eternatus and Xerneas and have fewer weaknesses.

Snorlax D - - > C:

Snorlax has the niche of being slower than most Core Enforcer users and being able to tank special hits very well. Since most threats in BH at the moment are special at the moment the ability to take things like Xerneas's Boomburst and choice-locked Ghost Types and retaliate for big damage is very advantageous.

Lycanroc-Midnight UR - - > D:

Lycanroc-Midnight is able to secure the OHKO against all Ho-Oh variants, while also not relying on Diamond Storm which can easily be PP stalled. As a physical wall, it deals with the most common Physical attackers such as Regigigas and Ho-Oh very well.

 

[QT]

This has been a while coming but I'd like to nominate spectrier to B rank. I've been trying it out lately and holy shit lol. I think one of the biggest things holding it back in the past was people running timid for some reason but running modest on it fixes so many flaws. Cheif among them forcing switches, since having a roll to kill most of the meta at 100% (and thus guarenteed after a bit of chip, like a regenvest uturn) is an incredible boon for spectrier, because it takes advantage of the fact that you 2hko everything. I've been running dual stab + focus + volt for the most part, which works quite well as long as you don't run into gigas, or even if you do if you can get hazards or chip and drop it with a focus read. I've also tried knock on teams where I'm not improofing it with knock weak mons and it requires a bit of prediction but can let you just drop teams that rely on regenvest. Ice beam makes yve and zyg easier but you can usually beat em anyway and predictions are for people who don't run spectrier so even if you don't use most of your moves beyond theory you might as well keep em.

 

[a loser]

Here's my thoughts on everyone in the VR at the moment.
Xerneas is still the best mon in the meta. Even boring sets like Boots Pixi with Spin/Sap/Boom/Volt are threatening and that's without getting into coverage or Metronome. There are few reasons not to have Xern on your squad so this stays at the top.
Eternatus is a weird mon. It can do so many things offensively but also struggle at times to really break through. It can be so tanky at times and also die before you know it. And then it clicks Final Gambit. Etern weighs pretty heavy on the teambuilder though so I think it should stay put.
Imposter hasn't been impressive to me lately. Every time I use it, it feels like a wasted slot. Sure it is useful and annoying to deal with at times and can't be ignored in teambuilding but it doesn't feel near as good as it was last generation. Maybe this is because more offensive mons, like the Dragons, hit themselves super effectively but I wouldn't mind seeing Imposter drop just a little.
Zamazenta-Crowned is another must have. It is pretty hard to build without this mon, and although I've made some successful teams without it before I always miss not having it. Its Speed is honestly so good to have and can help in matchups where you are otherwise really slow using base 90 to 110 mons. I don't think it is quite as good as Xern but it is pretty dang close, especially with sets like Tough Claws rising. I've never been a fan of S+/- rankings though so not sure if it should move.
Giratina is so weird. There's a ladder hero using a set nicknamed *dies* and it is so funny to me cause it feels so true. It is very useful as a bulky Ghost-type but there are also so many downsides to using it at times. Xern, Etern, Kyu-B, Palkia, Dialga, Lunala, Imposter, and more all give it loads of issues but it can also be very useful against mons like Regigigas, Don, Ho-Oh, and other slow passive mons that just can't dent it. But half of the mons mentioned first can all be messed with in return if Tina runs +Spe so that is weird too.
Regigigas is peaking right now. Poison Heal sets are on almost every good team and it can very effectively run three attack sets and is one of the best Spikes setters available. Magic Bounce Ghost-types like Giratina are rare but can check Spikes versions, however they are threatened by Dragon Tail and Wicked Blow variants that are trying to counter FC Lunala. I think a rise could be in order here.
Groudon is another weird mon. Band Adapt sets are still great at punching holes in teams and Mold Breaker Spikes is ok to me but nothing special. Other sets have been seeing use like Magic Bounce, Soundproof, and Prankster but I don't love either of these although they are decent. I think Don has enough variety to stay A- but doesn't need to rise.
Ho-Oh can be a menace. People are finally straying away from passive Magic Bounce trapping sets and exploring Magic Guard offensive utility and offensive Aerilate sets that make Ho-Oh much more threatening. I've seen a Drum Extreme Speed Ho-Oh on ladder that gives me nightmares.
Palkia still hates Tapu Fini a lot (and Ferrothorn at times) but it has a field day on teams that have neither. Para support or even using Rapid Spin helps against Zama-C and Eternatus. I've been seeing some wack Life Orb Shift Gear Palkia lately and I really don't understand those sets but the tried and true mixed Adaptability set is still very good.
Tapu Fini is a great PH utility mon that can also serve decently at other roles like Prankster and Magic Bounce. PH utility with hazards, status, pivot, etc are fine and all but PH Quiver Dance with Scald and Moonblast is a surprisingly effective late game wincon.
Kyurem-Black used Glacial Lance! (Opposing mon lost 100% of its health!) Kyu-B is the embodiment of 0 to 100 real quick. Glacial Lance keeps this mon relevant as it does ridiculous amounts of damage to the meta at +1. Kyu-B also hates Tapu Fini and makes improofing a nightmare if you run coverage for it.
Dialga is yet another weird mon. Opposing Dialga are very annoying to some of my teams and I always feel like I'm wasting a slot when I run Dialga. Its typing gives it so much potential to be annoying to mons like Xern and Etern and the fat Dragons but running sets like FurScales limits its firepower and running full offense on it means you just die to Xern and Etern. RegenVest continues to be a go-to set for this mon but feels like a copout as other sets like Adapt or something are so much cooler.
Kartana is a mon I don't normally build with. The last two times I've used it were RegenVest (don't ask) and Fur Coat (again, don't ask). Kart is cool though cause Sunsteel Strike still does a lot to many things in the meta and although it really hates Zama-C, Drum Triage or a prediction on Choice Band sets can break it as Zama-C is rarely seen with Fur Coat these days. Being faster than Xern, Palkia, and nicher picks like Blacephalon is very nice for Kartana too.
Kyogre doesn't get talked about much. It mainly runs RegenVest and PH utility, both of which it pulls off pretty well but it really can't do offensive sets that I know of outside of rain maybe? A strong STAB Scald is very nice to have though. This mon won't sweep you off your feet but I think it is fine where it is.
Lunala is really good and there is proof of this with people running Wicked Blow PH Gigas and Knock Off PH Snorlax. And by people I mean XxSevagxX. But really Lunala is still a solid FC mon despite the meta adapting to it here recently. Not sure if it should rise any further though.
Solgaleo is a less passive and less bulky Registeel. You won't get mocked for using it just yet, but I don't think anyone fully understands why they put it on teams. Yeah it is a real-life Fairy resist and that's nice but it is still a weird choice in a para heavy meta. So this should probably drop.
Zygarde-Complete is in the same boat as Giratina, imo. Depending on the set, it either puts in no work and dies quickly or shuts down teams that can't do meaningful damage to it. I'm not sure where it belong but B seems fine I guess.
Celesteela should rise to B. Triage is a great late-game wincon still but other sets like PrimSea and Aerilate are useful in other ways thanks to a great defensive typing and lots of PP with Rapid Spin and Anchor Shot.
Magearna is a really nice option when you want a Pixilate mon that doesn't get 2HKOed by defensive Zama-C. Pixilate is definitely the best Magearna set around as it isn't incredibly passive like Fire-immune sets but its typing also allows for a decent Prankster and things like RegenVest. I have even seen Adaptability on the ladder pestering teams with Moonblast and Doom Desire. Nothing amazing there, but it shows this mon has versatility and might could rise to B.
Necrozma-Dusk-Mane has become the go-to Liquid Ooze mon recently. This is an interesting occurrence and I'm not sure what to think of it but it says a lot about how popular Strength Sap has become. Remember last gen when no one ran Sap or Parting Shot cause they were all terrified of Contrary? Good times...
Rayquaza is a pain to deal with. Mixed Aerilate sets are popular and take advantage of Flying-type STAB being very good right now. Zacian-C really did put a damper on the birds this generation for so long that most people forgot about them. But being able to break through Fur/Scales Zama-C with Boom/Speed and V-create is really useful and then you get into Triage sets with Core Enforcer that screw with Ice Scales mons. This is at least B and pushing into B+ maybe, despite missing some of the raw power that Kyu-B has.
Reshiram is a relic of gen 8 metas past. It feels much harder to use than Zekrom thanks to Fire immunity being more common than Electric but it still has the potential cause trouble with its STAB moves thanks to Core Enforcer and being slower than Zama-C. Not sure where I stand on its ranking though.
Yveltal still has trouble in this meta thanks to Xerneas but people are finally realizing that Yveltal doesn't play defense like it did in Gen 7. Triage, Band/LO Adapt, and mixed variants of these sets can do lots of damage given the chance. Banded Dragon Ascent just goes pretty hard on lots of the meta and Wicked Blow covers almost everyone else relevant but Magearna.
Zekrom has seen more usage lately thanks to sevag and city popularizing mixed attacking sets like Adapt LO and MGLO. It has good STABs for the meta but sadly Bolt Strike is not Bolt Beak. Still a very scary mon in the right (wrong?) circumstances and I think B- is a fine place for it still but could get behind B. Checking Triage is also handy.
Blacephalon can do some cool things in this para heavy meta. The fact that it can't really deal with Eternatus well is a big downside for it though and so is being an extremely frail Stealth Rock weak offensive mon. MGLO is a nice set to ignore rocks but lacks the power of the Adapt LO set. I think it is fine in C.
Calyrex-Ice is another mon that can do funny things with an unreasonably powerful move, Glacial Lance. I'm really not sure where Calyrex-Ice or Kyu-B would be without Glacial Lance. Remember when it survived a suspect test cause people were like "well... its like the only cool Ice-type move so...…. no ban??" like what was that? I still think about that a lot.
Cresselia doesn't need Eviolite to perform as a Prankster / utility mon and to me that is the only thing that keeps it above the other Eviolite mons in D rank.
Darmanitan-Zen has lost is niche in the current mixed attacker metagame and should fall to D if not out of the rankings entirely. Perhaps more exploration is needed here but I know for sure that its Fur Coat set is not what it used to be.
Ferrothorn stays relevant by "checking" Regigigas, Xerneas, Palkia, and Eternatus. It can't realistically check each of these threats at once and really doesn't have the stats to check either reliably without smart playing and support, but it can still perform under the right circumstances. I know this doesn't sound like high praise but I think C is still fitting for this monstrosity of a mon.
Golisopod is a strange pick in this metagame. Its typing still holds a niche but the rise of Magic Bounce and special attackers has been unkind to this mon. Poison Heal sets can no longer easily set hazards or spread burns. Fur Coat sets don't really check Gigas that well unless they run Topsy-Turvy but this means you have a very passive set. You can check Don but at the cost of being Imposter bait or a momentum drain. I could see this mon falling back to D for now.
Landorus-T has fallen off the map now that QT has taken to Spectrier recently. I mean seriously I can't think of many people who have used Lando-T outside of QT. I tried building with it not too long ago and wasn't very impressed. Yeah having Dragon Ascent means you don't have to run Thousand Arrows but mons like Celesteela are on the rise and they give Lando-T some trouble. Perhaps this mon still has use left in the tank but I haven't seen any lately.
Melmetal is still used by MAMP and MAMP is cool. That's about all Melmetal has going for it at this point. I don't care where this is ranked but RIP to the former GOAT of the early gen 8 meta.
Pheromosa can still do some neat things with MGLO but it hates the recent popularity of Triage and -ate Extreme Speed and still isn't quite strong enough to pick up the big KOs on guys like Etern, Zyg-C, and Giratina. It is really fast though!
Registeel is unironically not bad. I just now won a room tour game using Prankster Registeel thanks to it actually being a Fairy and Flying resist unlike Zama-C, who can get cheesed by Xern and Triage folk. This could maybe rise to B- or B but I know people will hate to hear this.
Suicune exists, I guess? It does the usual bulky Water-type thing decently I guess.
Chansey has been seen occasionally on ladder and I've never been too impressed with it. It can be annoying at times though so I guess it can stay here in D.
Doublade isn't that good. It is still better than Aegislash though, but that really isn't saying much at this point. Every time I've used Doublade since Crown Tundra I've been extremely disappointed. I think it is time to give up on the Ghost/Steel family.
Dragapult can still do Normalize things and it is pretty funny watching higher level players bring it to tour games cause sometimes people sleep on Normalize and get wrecked. This can even happen on the ladder still, with the right support.
Dusclops does its job decently well. It is almost incapable of making meaningful progress in a game without running hazards but that means that Magic Bounce just forces it out. Entrainment is neat but again it just momentarily bothers mons like Xern and Gigas but makes no real progress unless its a 1v1 end game. I see no reason for this to rise.
Garchomp is another mon used by MAMP recently and that was cool. I really don't know if it belongs here but I'm not bothered by its presence and I don't think I'll ever attempt to build with it.
Giratina-O has been slept on for far too long. I don't want to hype it up too much here, but you can copy/paste the standard FC Lunala moveset onto this mon and have yourself a very nice set with two STAB moves. Trick immunity and powered up STABs from its orb is quite useful. One downside is the Speed Tier and I've mitigated this some by speed creeping with Timid nature but this does sacrifice some bulk. Offensive sets also have some potential cause things like Adapt Astral Barrage at +1 have a 6.3% chance to OHKO Xern lol! Moving up to at least C sounds good.
Heatran, no matter how hard it tries, will get completely obliterated by something. Ground, Water, Fighting, or even Fire moves all take their toll in some way depending on what set it is running. That being said, this mon has the potential to catch someone in a matchup and be very annoying.
Kyurem-White no longer exists. This should be removed from the rankings.
Lugia requires skill beyond my ability to use correctly so I can't speak on it. Ask cityscapes I guess?
Marshadow could be an anti-meta pick but it is still really hard to pull off with its lacking stats. I tried out Tough Claws LO recently with STABs and Triple Axel but wasn't too impressed.
Mewtwo can still show up with Psychic Surge Expanding Force and put a damper on priority attackers and Modest Eternatus and this is a decent niche to have, I think. Although RegenVest Zyg-C has been rising and Ice Scales Zama-C still soft checks this while forcing it to use Photon Geyser.
Regieleki is cool and I like the mon and its design. That being said, I miss Bolt Beak. The Galv Boom + Glance and V-create set is still cool on paper but I haven't played with it in a while. Might mess around with this mon some more soon but for now I don't think it needs to rise/fall any.
Slowking-Galar should probably drop out too. I tried using it once to check Etern but it lost to ImprisonForm Etern so that was fun.
Snorlax had a recent revival with Poison Heal Bulk Up to mess with Core Enforcer Ghost-types. I don't think it was enough to make Lax rise up but it definitely was enough to keep it in the rankings imo.
Spectrier has already been covered by myself and others but I'll raise my former proposal of C to B like the others have it.
Steelix is still on here? It gets 2HKOed by Zekrom's Dragon Energy with either LO or Adapt so that isn't good. I think this mon should drop out too cause there is very little reason to ever use it.
Swampert has no known utility in the current meta. Time to run Sap Sipper and meme on Sap/Volt Xern? (that is until you die from Boomburst in two seconds)
Thundurus-T is a mon I haven't personally used in a minute but the fact that it gets STAB on Oblivion Wing and Thunder Cage keeps it relevant as a niche Triage user.
Type: Null is a somewhat viable Pokemon. That's about all I can say about this one.
Umbreon still has a niche, surprisingly, but just barely. Spectrier's rise and even Lunala's make this pure Dark-type a sleeper pick on hard stall builds.
Urshifu-R has fallen on usage lately after it rose to relevance when DGZ and Zacian-C were still running rampant but I could see how it could be useful still. It still soft checks and offensively pressures several physical attackers in the meta with Fur Coat and its STAB moves.
Victini is a mon that I slept on for a long time. This tends to happen when I don't use something for myself and only go on hearsay. But dang it if this mon isn't spectacular at times. Choice Band V-create with Desolate Land has highly favorable rolls to OHKO both Xern and Gigas, which is pretty crazy to me. I think a C rank for this is feasible, especially considering how Darm-Z has lost its relevance.
Zacian is still rising thanks to the Tough Claws set poking holes in teams with its nice Fairy typing and fairly customizable moveset. The standard now is Fairy Multi-Attack, Fishious Rend, V-create but I could see things like Bolt Strike and Wicked Blow seeing use over time too. C or B- seems good for this as it is still item dependent to do most of its damage, whether that be its memory or a Life Orb.
Zamazenta does Tough Claws like Zacian does but is free to use a Life Orb and isn't tied down to Fishious Rend and V-create as coverage thanks to Close Combat. C sounds nice for this mon as it isn't quite as splashable as Zacian but is still a cool underrated breaker.

 

[fififlutters]

Dumped some random thoughts on the VR, might be a bit rambly in some places. I think that at least S -> A- should be the representative for the VR at the moment, otherwise the rest of these noms are mostly minor and I really don't care where they end up, as long as it's vaguely around that sort of rank.

S Rank

S

#1: Xerneas

Xerneas is not king for its set diversity, but rather, its extreme consistency. What mon better sets Spikes throughout a game? What mon better wears down a team over time, continuing to pressure everything in its path? What always threatens a sweep if you're not too careful? PH Xerneas, that's who. Even if this mon was simply locked down to Moonblast / TCage / Quiver Dance / filler, the mon would still undoubtedly be the scariest mon on the field. Incredibly durable, capable of punishing literally everything passive enough, and having that last moveslot be dedicated to whatever it feels like (examples: Spikes as the obvious progress maker, Leech Seed for winmore on Imposter / other soft-checks, Knock Off for better longterm damage output on Ho-Oh, Taunt to stop passive answers from sitting on it further / preventing setup from mons like Regigigas, Lava Plume to burn Steels and further chip damage) just makes Xerneas that much sweeter to carry. Even in spite of its seemingly lacking defensive utility against most of the metagame, Xerneas often finds many ways of coming in on threats that it really should have no business taking on, just to abuse that sweet PH recovery. Oh, and if that's not enough for you, Pixilate is something that will almost immediately make you reconsider your stance on Xerneas. With Pixilate, Xerneas becomes a lot harder hitting from the start, is arguably the best hazard removal in the game, and can very easily lure its targets, much like Eternatus can. The sheer presence of these two Xerneas sets outright defines teambuilding at its core, and even despite that, Xerneas still continues to be a ridiculously consistent progress maker. Xerneas is downright impossible to drop for these reasons - it's just too good of a mon to leave out!

Xerneas (Poison Heal, Pixilate)

A Rank

A+

#2: Regigigas

Regigigas is, in many ways, like PH Xerneas - it's an extremely consistent wincon that will be threatening at any stage of the game. Whether you're using Knock Off + Spikes as a way to set hazards for your teammates, or using DTail + PBlades / Fire move to abuse hazards, Regigigas has you covered. Additionally, Regigigas is also one of the best abusers of other Poison Heal mons, being naturally bulky enough to sit on even the mighty king, Xerneas, and simply click setup, almost free of charge. SD Regigigas in particular is excellent at abusing this type of interaction, with +2 Facade being able to OHKO Xerneas most of the time. Even in spite of that, however, it does have some small flaws, like the more offensive sets being a bit more vulnerable to Imposter than would be preferred, and the more defensive sets having trouble with Zamazenta-Crowned and other Steel types. But like Xerneas and Regen Eternatus, that doesn't really stop Regigigas from doing its job properly. It is still quite easy to overwhelm even with more defensive sets as Spikes + Knock Off chip gradually adds up over time, making it another one of the excellent long term wincons. Still a very difficult pick to drop, even if Regigigas hasn't really changed much from its time in BH.

#3: Eternatus

At first, I was rather skeptical of Eternatus. I felt like, despite its variance in sets, Eternatus was a mon that was quite easy to blanket check with mons like MGLO + Nuzzle Ho-Oh and Groudon, and was pretty easily threatened out by most of the top tiers. In doing so, I still thought Eternatus was an A+ mon, but just moments away from dropping, as I felt like its presence was not as heavily felt as Regigigas, Zamazenta-C and Imposter's were - it was especially quite painful to build around Eternatus, because the improof for its sets were quite difficult to find. That was, until I discovered just how insane Regenerator sets could be. Like PH Xerneas, these sets are incredibly difficult to chip, and also makes fairly quick progress on its own. However, two things make Eternatus define itself even above Xerneas for a second - its speed tier, and the sheer amount of movepool options that Eternatus has to mess with its answers. Whilst these tend to be answer dependent (There is only really one set that isn't - that's Volt + NP), the increased Speed tier and ability to scout Pokemon like Pixilate Xerneas, Ho-Oh and Palkia is practically invaluable for teams. In doing so, it ends up becoming valuable defensive glue as well as a strong offensive Pokemon in its own right, threatening in both offensive and defensive games, as checks even as bulky as Ice Scales Zamazenta-Crowned can be roasted or continually shocked with electricity, as long as you can position yourself correctly. This doesn't circumvent Eternatus' main issue, which is lack of initial power or weakness to paralysis, but Eternatus has nearly everything going for it right now. I don't really think you can go too wrong with this mon, building with it will more than likely give you the advantage over an opponent even in spite of prep, as long as you're using the more consistent sets.

#4: Imposter

In spite of ranking Imposter this high, I don't really run it that much. This is not to say that Imposter is bad - it's just a matter of my teamcomps tending to be more offensively inclined, so using Imposter as a scouting tool doesn't really bother me when mons like Regenerator Eternatus and Prankster Groudon (especially with Parting Shot!) are good enough at the job to work properly. However, I feel Imposter absolutely needs to be this high, mostly for its incredibly defining impact on the builder, and its invaluable job at scouting and abusing passive Pokemon. Shed Shell Imposter is a massive annoyance for most defensive Pokemon, as they will need to remove its item first, and even though this is worse at dealing with some stronger powerhouses like Eternatus and Xerneas, Chansey's bulk is still good enough to scout these Pokemon just fine. If that bulk isn't enough for you, then you can really slow the game down with Eviolite (my hand is wearing out now - this is probably a bad sentence to have because it's explaining what people already know)

#5: Zamazenta-Crowned

Zamazenta-Crowned is a mon that I do think is exceptionally important in the metagame (it's what I'd consider to be the second most splashable mon after Xerneas), but I do think that Zamazenta-Crowned is reaching a bit of a limiter in the current metagame. Though its defensive sets are still mighty good against Regigigas, Palkia and Eternatus, it is not only not exactly impossible for these Pokemon to surmount Zamazenta-Crowned, but it is possible for these Pokemon to outright abuse it. Different moveset variations and team building can often make Zamazenta-Crowned feel like a bit of a dead slot, something that tends to let in brokens rather than force them out. Offensively, Zamazenta-Crowned can also be hard to make work properly, as its sets are not only hard to improof due to its naturally high defenses and fairly low HP, but also suffer from rising trends like MGLO Ho-Oh, Groudon and Regenerator Eternatus if Zamazenta-Crowned does not opt to run Primordial Sea. If it opts to run Primordial Sea, it can have issues with coverage from mons like Precipice Blades Regigigas and TCage + Taunt Eternatus. Additionally, like Eternatus, Zamazenta-Crowned really doesn't like status, but as a defensive staple, it is often forced to eat paralysis and hope that turns don't go badly for it. As such, it lands in the bottom of A+, below the most consistent staples. Still, don't be afraid to splash this on everything; it's a mon that can work that way, but always make sure that Zamazenta-C is doing something that a less passive steel couldn't do.

Regigigas (Poison Heal, Tough Claws)
Eternatus (Regenerator, Mold Breaker, Adaptability, Dragon's Maw, Fur Coat, Ice Scales, Sheer Force, No Guard)
Imposter (Chansey, Blissey, Zygarde-Complete)
Zamazenta-Crowned (Fur Coat, Ice Scales, Primordial Sea, Regenerator)

A

Side note: One thing that genuinely surprised me when checking through my builder for examples - it turns out that Groudon is my second most used mon, with Xerneas being the first!

#6: Groudon

Groudon is a mon that most people wouldn't really expect to hit this list at the moment. Prior to about a month and a half ago; I'd almost be inclined to agree - I felt like at the time, Groudon was probably the scariest of the "cheese" breakers - being able to consistently 2HKOs on nearly every target in the game, only the bulkiest Fur Coat users could hope to survive. However, in my desire to find Prankster users that wouldn't just let the next broken right in, Groudon was my personal nomination for first - it has an extremely consistent mono-STAB in Thousand Arrows, has good matchups vs Eternatus and Zamazenta-Crowned (later I would also realize it had decent matchups against Regigigas and Xerneas with Entrainment), and can instantly paralyze (or escape with Parting Shot) any breakers the team might have difficulty with, making it a tough threat to both take out and to switch into easily, as any non-PH wall could very easily fall to a few poorly timed paralysis turns. Combine the highly splashable Prankster set with things like CB Don being walled by a select few Fur Coat users, Mold Breaker Don being able to set hazards practically guaranteed, and even some techs like Magic Bounce PFang Groudon / PH SD Spikes Groudon have been popping up around the place, all of which can be quite painful to switch into even with regards to Groudon's solid defensive utility, as Soft Sand Precipice Blades is a 2HKO on most PH users. All in all, a genuinely strong pick in the current meta and something you should consider for every team.

#7: Ho-Oh

I think most Ho-Oh sets suck. It either suffers from lack of coverage, lack of utility, or lack of actual threat with a fair amount of its sets - but MGLO and SD DLand are a bit different in that regard. Both of them you have to respect in the builder - Ho-Oh is a mon that can hang out standard Regixern to dry if you don't pack some sort of good Fire resist, and this doesn't mean slapping Eternatus on the team and calling it a day; those mons just don't cut it over time and as such Ho-Oh has a very good chance of carrying high offensive momentum. SD DLand does suffer with coverage issues, particularly Primordial Sea - but that makes it pretty easy to improof, and it also spreads para quite well, being able to force out every paralysis immunity other than Zygarde-C and Zekrom, two fairly uncommon mons (but not unseen territory). What's also great is that (outside of lures like Diamond Storm), these sets are probably some of the best counters to Xerneas the metagame can offer. MGLO is also a fantastic answer against Eternatus, often being able to tank a +2 Core Enforcer easily and Nuzzle the Eternatus to deal significant damage. Ho-Oh is the last of the "bread and butter" picks here - from here on out, we'll be going into a bit more fishy territory.

Groudon (Adaptability, Prankster, Mold Breaker, Poison Heal, Magic Bounce, Ice Scales)
Ho-Oh (Magic Guard, Desolate Land, Prankster, Volt Absorb, Magic Bounce, Aerilate)

A-

#8: Lunala (CHEESE #1)

Cheese pick #1. Simple Lunala is something you need to be prepared to face - whether that be by positioning correctly and not letting it freely set up, or by giving yourself some redundancy in your Prankster and still having some offensive momentum despite it being taken out by Final Gambit. However, it's not the only reason I rank this here, unlike the other two picks - Lunala also makes for a great defensive set right now, which by comparison to Giratina, has a much better matchup against Eternatus and Xerneas, and an at least workable matchup against Regigigas (even if not perfect). Additionally, Lunala is a lot harder to force out than its other Fur Coat partners, and in not having a weakness to Ice or Dragon, can be a great force in preventing HO from taking too much momentum. All in all, solid mon - gotta watch out for the cheese, too.

#9: Palkia (CHEESE #2)

Cheese pick #2. Palkia is one of the mons I feel like I can disrespect but whenever I load into it I always end up panicking and realize I have to sack 2+ mons to actually beat it. Pivots like Eternatus can help a little, but this is probably one of the few mons that consistently threatens the top tiers in a short timespan, rather than doing so over the course of 100 turns. However, there are a few flaws that drive Palkia away from being one of the top tiers - that is down to its lack of actual utility outside of wallbreaking, and its lack of good switchin opportunities, as Palkia can struggle to get some OHKOs on the slower threats of the metagame, like PH Xerneas / Regigigas and Lunala. Additionally, the sheer existence of Tapu Fini being an option as a prank on quite a few teams makes Palkia very difficult to consistently use without specific teamcomps that abuse a paralyzed Tapu Fini, making its options even more limited.

#10: Kyurem-Black (CHEESE #3)

Cheese pick #3. Kyurem-Black is the mon that people bring if you want to disrespect someone for bringing too few Imposters to a tourmatch. Not only does it have the highest power Glacial Lance in the entire tier, most of the physical movepool that applies to it amplifies that and makes it a downright nuclear wallbreaker to switch into, arguably having 0 true walls in the entire game. In compensation for that, however, comes a mon that is notoriously difficult to improof, heavily reliant on its HP to get in and a mon that often burns out during longer games, even in spite of its incredible wallbreaking potential. Compared to some of the other breakers on this list like Palkia, Kyurem-Black definitely stands out as the strongest, but also one of the less reliable breakers - it's especially notable as a problem when paralysis is on nearly every mon, making setup incredibly difficult for Kyurem-Black to pull off successfully.

#11: Giratina

I'm not a huge fan of Giratina. It's a heavily passive ball of bulk, that just so happens to have STAB typing on some of the better moves in BH. Its typing is also at least somewhat unique, having no 4x weakness to really exploit compared to Lunala, but also having weaknesses to Dragon and Fairy sucks for its offensive pressure. That being said, I will concede on the effectiveness of PH in some matchups. PH Tina can get up rocks fairly reliably and annoy some difficult to deal with mons like Ho-Oh, and seriously annoy some otherwise potent wallbreakers like Groudon.

Lunala (Fur Coat, Simple)
Palkia (Adaptability, Poison Heal)
Kyurem-Black (Mold Breaker, Speed Boost, Refrigerate)
Giratina (Poison Heal, Prankster, Fur Coat, Magic Bounce, Regenerator)

B Rank

B+

I'll be using more concise explanations for these lower ranks.

Celesteela

Probably the best alternate steel - good at pissing off Regigigas, great at removal, good as a progress maker with Triage. Doesn't exactly enjoy rising Ho-Oh usage, but likes rising Precipice Blades Regigigas usage and enjoys sitting on some of the more passive hazard setters like PH Giratina.

Magearna

The alternate steel to use if you also want to: a) deny certain Eternatus sets as an improof, particularly Regenerator with Volt Switch, b) act as if you're Pixilate Xerneas. It's quite good at this role as well, being very threatening towards the midgame when threats like Ho-Oh have been worn down. Not a huge fan of the more passive sets like Primordial Sea, but they also work very well as Eternatus and non-blades Regigigas answers.

Spectrier

Secret cheese #1 - fast ghost that is very good at getting 2HKOs on modern team structures, aside from Regigigas. Spikes sets are cool but can lack damage or tends to want coverage it can't afford. Can also struggle if the opponent has a RegenVest user with a good punish, like Nuzzle Kyogre. The mon is fairly bulky as well, often being able to live 1 hit from most non-boosted breakers.

Tapu Fini

Tapu Fini is pretty much only useful for two things: 1) Improofing Palkia, 2) being an annoying utility mon that sometimes clicks Spikes vs people with bad removal. I still keep it this high because it's one of the few Pranksters that I feel actually does something in a game, even though it is quite passive compared to Groudon.

Zacian

Very underrated wallbreaker, pairs fantastically with Xerneas. Can struggle with 4MSS on Pixilate sets, can struggle with reliable recovery and vulnerability to status on TC sets. Also abuses primal weathers pretty decently, with a few Desolate Land Zacians giving me some issues recently.

Zygarde-Complete

Decent RegenVester, sometimes doesn't die to attacks it really should, Ice Scales sets also do this to an extent. hates Glacial Lance, but who cares - you're not answering many physical threats anyway, you're a special wall instead. Still hates Xerneas to death though.

Celesteela (Aerilate, Triage, Primordial Sea)
Magearna (Pixilate, Primordial Sea, Triage)
Spectrier (Adaptability, Poison Heal, Mold Breaker)
Tapu Fini (Prankster)
Zacian (Tough Claws, Pixilate)
Zygarde-Complete (Regenerator, Ice Scales, Unburden, Scrappy, Prankster)

B

Giratina-O
Giratina-O still sucks, even with a bit more special attack. You can probably use this in the same way you can use Lunala, just not for the same blanket check purposes, as unlike Lunala, it hates seeing Eternatus and Xerneas show up in its face.

Kartana

I personally feel like Kartana is pretty heavily overrated. It's great at piercing most FCs, but when the best one of those is Zamazenta-Crowned, a mon that resists Sunsteel, it ends up being pretty difficult to justify outside of that LOTC set. Additionally, Triage BD tends to suck at actually winning, since setup opportunities are not always guaranteed, and certain mons just give that set a lot of difficulties, like Celesteela and Eternatus. Unburden is also overrated, as although it doesn't have issues with those answers, it has issues with a potential lack of power.

Kyogre

Good RegenVest user, sucks if it tries to do anything else. Additionally, all it does in half the games I see it in is Nuzzle an Eternatus and die or lose to Xerneas for some reason.

Yveltal

Rayquaza sucks, this guy is better. STAB Knock Off, a better defensive typing and stats both make this better at punishing Imposter and better at switching in as an Aerilate mon. No V-create sucks for Scales Zama-C but that's not really a huge deal when you're knocking everything else. Easy to improof, too - mons like Magearna make perfect partners for it. Unburden + Drum is kinda bad given the Prankster matchup but I do think it's probably the best Unburden + BD user.

Zekrom

Zekrom is a mon I like a lot, especially because of how it exploits Ho-Oh, but I definitely have to admit it has its limitations. Magic Guard can struggle to do enough damage to PH mons in short term games, and it can also tend to get pretty badly exploited by some Strength Sap users, some of which can also spin away attempts at Spiking. Regenerator is a bit more pro-active in this regard, but suffers more in later games due to the hazard weakness and reliance on status to make up for lost breaking power. Additionally, the increase in Groudon usage makes the mon a lot tougher to use at its full potential, especially Magic Bounce variants.

Giratina-O (Fur Coat, Poison Heal, Prankster)
Kartana (Triage, Unburden, Tough Claws, Steelworker)
Kyogre (Regenerator, Poison Heal)
Yveltal (Aerilate, Unburden, Triage)
Zekrom (Magic Guard, Regenerator, Galvanize)

B-

Blacephalon

Frail and slow nuke. Kinda just autowins vs some structures, but also tends to be a dead slot vs anything with enough offensive pressure. Will occasionally just OHKO everything in sight unlike Spectrier, however.

Calyrex-Ice

Regenerator Calyrex-Ice is pretty dank but I think the mon suffers a lot of issues with its bad typing + its speed being far below the average, meaning it can get exploited pretty easily by mons that would otherwise lose to it. Its bulk also leaves a bit more to be desired vs neutral targets, especially Eternatus.

Dialga

I have 0 experience with this mon but I am pretty sure there is a reason to use this that I am missing out on

Rayquaza

Boomburst kills things, V-create kills things, kills things slightly faster than Yveltal but also doesn't have the same sort of bulk to exploit.

Solgaleo

Can occasionally be a huge bitch for Regixern to deal with; otherwise acts like a more passive Zamazenta-C.

Blacephalon (Adaptability)
Calyrex-Ice (Refrigerate, Regenerator, Poison Heal)
Dialga (Regenerator, Ice Scales)
Rayquaza (Aerilate, Triage)
Solgaleo (Fur Coat, Magic Bounce)

C Rank

C

Darmanitan-Zen

Specific improof for a few brokens. Don't really know where else to use this, though.

Ferrothorn

Screws Spikes variants of Regixern over on paper, can act as a decent improof to Eternatus, too. Otherwise this mon is Registeel tier and doesn't actually do anything.

Golisopod

Use this guy if you're tired of Groudon clicking its Ground move too freely.

Landorus-T

Use this guy if you want an alternate STAB to screw over some Groudon switchins with, otherwise, use Groudon.

Registeel

The bozo mon. Had this here because I have Ferrothorn in this rank, because it does have a few very specific niches, otherwise it's not worth using at all. I find Bounce to be the better set but I see so many "do-nothing" prank Registeels and it annoys me.

Type: Null

The TTTech special. Tends to annoy some breakers like Palkia really hard, but is really passive otherwise and dependent on status + Strength Sap to check things properly.

Darmanitan-Zen (Fur Coat)
Ferrothorn (Magic Bounce, Primordial Sea, Flash Fire)
Golisopod (Poison Heal, Fur Coat)
Landorus-T (Adaptability)
Registeel (Prankster, Magic Bounce)
Type: Null (Prankster, Regenerator)

 

[quojova]

to d

does the eleki galv lo boomburst/glance/v-create/sap set but better since you can actually count on its bulk a bit more and the speed is not that relevant. I am also desperate for flying resists on every team i put zamac on and the below calc comparison is nice. also revenges horse and etern if you have a sizable chunk of chip. para immunity is a solid bonus. anyway I don't see a good reason to have zera below eleki so either raise the zoomer or drop eleki imo

+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Yveltal Oblivion Wing vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Regieleki: 222-263 (60.9 - 72.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Yveltal Oblivion Wing vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Zeraora: 172-203 (45.2 - 53.4%) -- 33.2% chance to 2HKO

 

[XxLazzerpenguinxX]

My VR noms:

S
Regigigas

S

The diversity of its sets, and effectiveness of each results in it being an unparalleled mon in the tier currently through its ability make progress and get through its checks.

A+
Xerneas
Eternatus
Chansey (Imposter)
Zamazenta-Crowned

A+

Xerneas, Etern, and Zama-C all have a diverse list of sets they can each run, and each have the capabilities of pushing through checks and making progress. Zamazenta-Crowned also is the best defensive mon in the game. Chansey imposter is always good.

A

A

Going through this list I don't think there's really any pokemon that comes close to the pokemon above. Thus, I leave this tier empty to demonstrate that.

A-

Groudon
Ho-oh
Giratina
Zygarde-Complete

A-

Groudon and Ho-oh have very unique defensive and offensive capabilities vs. the likes of Zamazenta-Crowned and Xerneas. They are also very good at spreading paralysis. With Giratina, althrough its usage has dropped I do still believe it is a strong pokemon as a neutral switch in and efficacy to scout Regigigas sets. Zygarde-C is a pokemon that has increased in usage, due to glacial lance being less seen as other coverage is opted for, and its ability to be both a physical and specially defense check is very unique and helpful.

B+

Palkia
Tapu Fini
Celesteela
Magearna
Spectrier
Zacian

B+

They all have their good niches and unique abiliities to insert themselves from the game, and check certain pokemon. However, general good teambuilding processes will result in most teams having some of dealing with them.

B
Kartana
Lunala
Zekrom
Calyrex-Ice
Kyurem-Black
Kyogre

B

In this tier, many of these pokemon have the ability to dictate games, however they require more support and precise teambuilding to make progress.

B-
Rayquaza
Blacephalon
Solgaleo
Necrozma-Dusk-Mane
Darmanitan-Zen
Type: Null
Dialga

B-

Many of these pokemon have good ways of making progress or checking pokemon, however generally there might be a better substitute in the above ranks. They still have their own unique niches though.

Might expand if I have time, but here's a rough outline of my thoughts.