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Bisharp
- Thread starter Upstart
- Start date
You do realize even natts cant counter latios perfectly dont you ?
(yeah he has sucker punch though a check maybe)
Check the Bisharp analysis in the analysis section, theres a support Bisharp set over there thats been EV'd for confronting the twins.
This. I really want to like Bisharp, just like when 4th gen came out I really wanted to like honchkrow; The only difference is that Honchkrow actually stuck with me, since it has better attacking options and can hit from both ends of the spectrum. Now, granted that Honchkrow doesn't get SD, nor does it have good defences (yet decent HP); I guess I shouldn't pass judgement until the 3rd installment/ R/S/E remake comes out since that's when honchkrow became pure awesomesauce in 4th gen (Imo anyways), but right now I don't see TOO much (Still has certain advantages) reason to use it over Krow.
EDIT: I guess they have two dfferent purposes, as Honchkrow isn't exactly made for setup sweeping and Bisharp (to some degree) is.
I've been running this set with a great deal of success:
Bisharp @leftovers
EVs: 72 HP / 252 Atk / 184 Def
Adamant Nature
Defiant
- Sucker Punch
- Brick Break
- Swords Dance
- Substitute
EVs maximize Defense allowing it to take neutral hits from pretty hard hitters. Can switch in on pretty much anything physical not carrying EQ or Fighting, and force them out to get a sub. From there swords dance up and enjoy near perfect coverage and STAB base 80 priority.
Any defensive Poke is set up bait, even Reuniclus since you can outspeed and Sub until it whiffs a focus blast.
Things like Sub Gengar obviously cause problems, but its a small price to pay for the pros. Plus its really obvious that if someone brings in Gengar on him, that they will be running sub so just high tail out of there. The ONLY issue I have with this set is sucker punch is easily PP stalled.
Bisharp @leftovers
EVs: 72 HP / 252 Atk / 184 Def
Adamant Nature
Defiant
- Sucker Punch
- Brick Break
- Swords Dance
- Substitute
EVs maximize Defense allowing it to take neutral hits from pretty hard hitters. Can switch in on pretty much anything physical not carrying EQ or Fighting, and force them out to get a sub. From there swords dance up and enjoy near perfect coverage and STAB base 80 priority.
Any defensive Poke is set up bait, even Reuniclus since you can outspeed and Sub until it whiffs a focus blast.
Things like Sub Gengar obviously cause problems, but its a small price to pay for the pros. Plus its really obvious that if someone brings in Gengar on him, that they will be running sub so just high tail out of there. The ONLY issue I have with this set is sucker punch is easily PP stalled.
Almost every physical attacker carries one or the other. I can't actually think of any physical attackers that DON'T carry EQ or a Fighting move.
Relying on a miss to beat Reuniclus isn't the BEST way to handle him IMO.
Seems okay otherwise.
Physical attackers without Eq/Fighting: Ummmmm...Crawdaunt? Basculin? Victreebel? Eelektross?
I guess you're right about physical attackers, I never find it difficult to set up subs though, really this thing can just come in on any wall and Sub to either block status or on their switch.
As for Reuniclus, you can get up 5 subs from full health with Lefties; Reuniclus has a 16.807% chance of hitting all of those focus blasts, so I would hardly call that relying on a miss, but I get your point.
EDIT: I guess what I find with the physical attackers is that it has enough resistances that it can come in on a lot of scarfed/banded things set up the sub on their switch and then wreck.
I had some success with Bisharp using thunder wave with iron head and SD for some decent flinch hax or some almost free yet risky set ups. I'm trying to find at least two different builds that are good. Inner focus is really something, especially against that new fighting type that always likes to start with Fake out only to get thunderwaved or letting Bisharp getting a free SD.
I always use Bisharp as a lead though, I can't seem to get its defenses to work. Yet, when I make a build that has 0 hp and 0 defense EVs, it still takes hits fairly well.
I always use Bisharp as a lead though, I can't seem to get its defenses to work. Yet, when I make a build that has 0 hp and 0 defense EVs, it still takes hits fairly well.
Eelektross can learn Brick Break?
Yeah he can.
Bisharps problem is, even if he ends up tiered lower than honchcrow, he gets to compete with absol, who is faster, has higher attack, has a better ability in super luck with the moves to take advantage of it, and movepool options like superpower and baton pass.
The only significant advantages bisharp has are being bulkier, having the secondary steel type, and having access to stealth rocks.
The only significant advantages bisharp has are being bulkier, having the secondary steel type, and having access to stealth rocks.
Crawdaunt can learn Brick Break, too. Jeez people...
Anyway, I think this guy is just a worse Absol. His typing is great but Absol gets a bunch of cool toys like Psycho Cut (which helps with fighting types) and Superpower (which helps with steels). Bisharp gets... Iron Head? He does get more opportunities to set up, but then what? What's the point of getting to +2 when you don't have powerful enough attacks to handle stuff that Absol can?
Anyway, I think this guy is just a worse Absol. His typing is great but Absol gets a bunch of cool toys like Psycho Cut (which helps with fighting types) and Superpower (which helps with steels). Bisharp gets... Iron Head? He does get more opportunities to set up, but then what? What's the point of getting to +2 when you don't have powerful enough attacks to handle stuff that Absol can?
No, I meant ones that DON"T USE EQ OR FIGHTING MOVES. Who sees BB Crawdaunt?
Bisharp gets Psycho Cut too, IIRC. And yeah I agree; Bisharp suffers from having mostly low BP moves to use alongside 125 Attack.
I think that what sets Bisharp apart from Absol is that it can set up Stealth Rock. It can also net surprise KOs with Metal Burst (provided it survives with Focus Sash).
Problem is, SR's illegal with Sucker Punch, the only thing that really lets Bisharp be usable, IMO.
Oh, forgot about that. But still, is a lead set viable?:
-Stealth Rock/Sucker Punch
-Metal Burst
-Brick Break/Night Slash
-Thunder Wave/Night Slash
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 HP/252 Atk/4 Spe
Item: Focus Sash
You cooould run either an Anti-Lead set or a lead set, but he'd be better off as more of a Suicide / Situational lead really.
I would do....
~Stealth Rock
~Metal Burst / Thunder Wave
~Night Slash
~Brick Break
A bit offensive, but that's part of Bisharp's capabilities. Set up the rocks if they plan to do the same, while your attacking options can be used as quite a reliable means of coverage. If you fear Metal Bursts inconsistancy, you could always run T-Wave for that great crippling effect.
how does metal burst work? i've tried it and it does jack SHIT! i just cant figure it out.
Metal Burst is basically Counter and Mirror Coat put together, the difference being it only returns 1.5 times the damage dealt, has 0 Priority instead of -5, and will fail if the user is faster than the opponent. For future reference, I believe a question like this should probably be asked in the Simple Questions Simple Answers thread at the top of the page, as it does not relate to Bisharp specifically.