CAP 17 CAP 6 - Art Submissions

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As a counter to the above statement, I posit that the addition of pupils provides it with much-needed emotional depth. It can now look angry, or happy, like a proper living creature should. The removal of the rivets now forces the viewer to instead construe the xylophone keys as integrated organically with the body. Anyone who is forcing themselves to see an unbolted version as "going to fall apart" is, in my opinion, more interested in seeing a Steel/Ghost CAP, than anything that looks remotely alive.


mindless philosopher
Here's what stood out to me:

Magistrum: This is the best design we've seen so far, I think. A note on the tie-in to Intimidate: it works even better with a frigate bird because they extort food, in a manner of speaking. Frigate birds get a portion of their sustenance from harassing smaller seabirds in mid-air and forcing them to drop any fish they've caught. Your bird looks like he's all too ready to do that, and seems to display a smug satisfaction with the act of theft (or maybe that's just due to the way the horns of the anchor curve upward). The buttons look a little odd, but all in all, this is a masterful design. Bonus points for picking a relatively obscure animal as your inspiration.
noobiess: The gargoyle is an interesting idea, although it says "Rock" more strongly than "Steel". It looks more imposing than most of the designs here, which is a point in your favor, and the huge brow ridges serve to add a nice dash of humor to the design. My main issue is that the wings look a little too bulky and solid to be useful for anything other than decorative purposes.
Birkal: Where are you, cornmon? Adorable as always, and certainly not lacking in humor value. The goggles don't seem to fit, though - perhaps you could convert them into goggle-shaped markings around the roadrunner's eyes.
Golurkyourself: Props for using an invertebrate as your inspiration, man. They don't get enough love. Anyway, on to the design: you did a nice job of making Glaucus atlanticus look intimidating in a way that isn't just "whoa, this thing is trippy and it's creeping me out". The problem: it just doesn't look like a Steel-type, since you've lost the metallic blue coloring of the actual nudibranch, and the closest thing I can think of to metal for the Pokemon itself would be the radula (many mollusks have a serrated "tongue" called a radula that they use for scraping off bits of whatever they're eating). Your design is cool, but the typing is an issue.
Knirp: It's so cute I want to hug it Your xylophone-bird is one of the funniest and most original designs I've seen so far, and I really love the details you added to the wings in your latest update. I'm going to second wdistance's suggestion that you add the rivets back in - they make it look more like a xylophone and a little more intimidating (I don't know why), and lack of a clear intimidation factor is the only thing holding you back from going toe-to-toe with Magistrum at this point. Don't worry about the sprite; the rivets could just be represented as dark grey dots on it or something. Outstanding work!
(EDIT: -10 points for Bullet Punching a Weedle. What did he ever do to you?)
Yilx: Your taiko-tengu is bizarre in the best possible way - it's something I don't think anyone else would have thought of, and you pulled it off so well that an artificial design like this actually looks almost like a real creature. The angel doesn't look intimidating at all and doesn't have the humor value to make up for that, so I recommend you drop that one and stick with the tengu.
Shanimanim: The Pokemon world needs cassowaries; of this, there can be no doubt. Your bird looks suitably intimidating for the project (which fits with real cassowaries rather well, for anyone who didn't know - they're a bit bad-tempered and their kicks can be deadly), and I like the focus on a relatively obscure animal. The claws could use a little work, though; they look a bit too thick at the base.
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Further work on the Rocketdog-mon. Probably run with this concept if the spread ends up bulky/speedy; and use B52-mon for bulky/ power. Guess we'll see.

*cleaned up my line work and refined palette. Thinking about adding the jet flame behind him as part of the design. Thoughts? *

Still wrestling with final color scheme and some of the legs feel awkward.

Left out this pass; but desperately trying to get his belly-drum/ afterburner button to NOT look like genitals in silhouette.

Thank you for any feedback you can provide.
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Uhh @OldManDugan , to be honest I'd rather you go with your badass fighter plane robot than that rocketdog. Also it seems too awkward that a quadruped dog would be touching its shiny red thingy with a tentacle. Sorry.

@noobiess I think the gargoyle concept is good, but as it is now, it still has a rock-type vibe (partly because of the origin). I think the zigzag lines on the edges of the wings give me the impression of a craggy surface (rock-type). I think the limbs could yet be improved too.

@Mos-Quitoxe damn that is badass! The glowing eyes in the glass really makes it eerie and intimidating. Keep it up!

@Magistrum really amazing update, and I'm glad that you went with the frigate bird. Definitely voting for this one in the polls.

@Fl055 Uhh... spawn of Rayquaza and Latias? Either way I don't like it, sorry. If you want to stick with the flying lizard concept, I suggest you try a different approach.

@Knirp I like how much your design has grown. But yeah I agree with Darth Missingno. that the rivets should stay. Keep up the good work!
link to image
Okay so I dramatically altered my original design into this line art, mostly due to me feeling my design needed to be bulkier for Belly Drum (and a beak for Drill Peck I guess) and also due to lack of feedback :p. The feedback I got told me to make the design... rounder? (thanks @Quanyails). I'd appreciate any further feedback since it does help motivate me, and I'd like to know if I should re-incorporate the 'magic bubble';
otherwise the coils on his back will just be decoration.
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Distilled, 80 proof
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I don't usually post in this thread before the 48-hour warning (and even then it's just to congratulate what I think are the standout designs), but I wanted to step in for just a moment for a short critique of OldManDugan's rocket dog, which I think is conceptually one of the strongest designs posted so far. I am a sucker for using out-of-place animals as inspiration for unlikely typings (a la Colossoil, the Ground-type whale), and this design speaks to that quality in spades.

I think the booster button on the bottom is only ever going to look distracting; the design conveys a "realistic" enough use of Belly Drum without it. And the legs don't need to be so different from regular dog legs. So long as the proportions stay as cartoonish as they currently are (i.e. short front legs, shorter back legs, and big body), the personality of the design will be more than enough to sell it to voters. Good work!
I really hate using microsoft paint. -_-

Edit: I didn't mean to post this without putting a little more detail in. Whoops. Anyway, the wings aren't really done, they're just a sketch to get some feedback 'cause I'm really bad at drawing wings. I tried to get a sort of helmet type design into the bell itself, to make intimidate a little more realistic.
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@Cheeseball504 : You could stand to give that bell some eyes/eyelike markings. Faceless creatures never work well as Pokemon.
It does have a face. The Pokemon looks like a church bell, and the face is on the clapper.

For my opinion of it, it looks too much like an angelic version of Bronzong to me. It has the same basic shape, as well as the two long arms and the little halo on the top. The only difference is the clapper, wings and colour scheme.

@Knirp I do not like the nostrils. I love your design, it is one of my favourites so far, but the nostrils do not look good at all. I already thought that the "eyes" on the cloak were enough, but if anything, bringing back the pupils on those "eyes" would probably be more than enough. One thing I do like about your recent update is the fact that you brought back the rivets. I think that he looks cooler with them than without. In regards to the speed stat looking like it will be rather high, I think that the divebomb that you included with your first post in this thread can be added as supporting material, although it should be updated first. I thought that he looked rather speedy from that picture alone, but whatever you feel is necessary, go ahead and add.

@OldManDugan I prefer your rocketdog submission to this, but there were still a few problems (noted by Korski) that I had with it. I still think it is a really cool and inventive idea though.

@Magistrum : I really like your design, I think it is really awesome looking. I am glad that you went with this over the harpy/valkyrie, and it really has come a long way since then. It is cool how you have used the definition of the word Frigate (a type of warship, for those still unaware) and gave him a really cool nautical theme. Everything, from the anchor beak to the shoulder mark's on the tail make this thing look like an amazing submission. However, while both the flying and steel are very prominent in this, I am expecting this to be partly water type. Maybe when the movepool part of the CAP comes around, he can be given some water type attacks, but if that happens before the art is decided on, then it could potentially be a problem for the Naval theme.

I really want to know if @Calad or @Zracknel have made any improvements to their submissions. I loved their ideas as well, but there were some problem that were never resolved.
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Non moving images:

EDIT: Wow thanks for all the feedback, even though it's all negative;) Like i said: it was more a try-out than anything else, but I felt like posting it could never hurt. And it was worth it: this is obviously a bad idea. Oh well, at least we got a joke out of it @Magistrum.


I won't have as much time as I've been having the last few weeks, but here's a short try-out to make xylomon a bit more 'alive'.
Explanation: By adding the typical parrot nostrils, it looks like xylomon has a pair of eyes looking out from under its hood. It uses these as a means to communicate with pokemon and people. When xylomon is agitated, it folds its top 'feathers' around its nostrils to intimidate its foe.

It's just a try-out so please let me know what you guys think.

@Darth Missingno.: Weedle had it coming, it's so damn easy to draw quickly when you're in a rush:p

Reply @Sonic The Hedgedawg and @Corkscrew:
I actually like it better without the nostrils. The markings on its . . . cape? for lack of a better word, look enough like eyes to me, adding more eye-like markings just confounds things IMO
I agree that it makes the design look more complex. The thing is that it got some criticism (mostly from Mos) that it didn't have pupils/living eyes, which makes the mon a bit 'emotionless'. By adding the nostrils, it can show its emotions through unconventional means. They also make the viewer wonder what its actual eyes are instead of just assuming they are the ones on its hood. (to avoid confusion: the real eyes are not visible, the bird is blind).

I've been looking at the stat submissions with the same conclusion and seeing the first responses to the new nostrils I think it's the wrong way to go (have to say i wasnt sure about them myself either but wanted to find a more satisfying way to get intimidate to work without changing too much). Iguess a more extreme redesign will be necessary to better incorporate the high speed and intimidate (and 2nd ability maybe?) If i have the time i will surely try to make it more suitable to its stats and abilities!
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Explanation: By adding the typical parrot nostrils, it looks like xylomon has a pair of eyes looking out from under its hood. It uses these as a means to communicate with pokemon and people. When xylomon is agitated, it folds its top 'feathers' around its nostrils to intimidate its foe.
I actually like it better without the nostrils. The markings on its . . . cape? for lack of a better word, look enough like eyes to me, adding more eye-like markings just confounds things IMO


The professor?
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To be honest Knirp, I don't like the nostrils at all (and your was my favourite design so far). It looks like you're trying to add too much unnecessary detail if you add them. I think you've got enough detail in already, and if you want to be able to convey more emotion, then adding pupils to the eyes was the best thing to do imo.

edit: another critique is that looking at the stat submissions it looks like we're gonna have 100+ speed and xylophonebird doesn't look as if it could travel that fast. I'm not really sure, but maybe a thinner, more streamlined design would help? I'm can't really visualise it so I'm not sure but maybe something to consider. I do really love the concept and design though, overall it's fantastic.
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mindless philosopher
I don't think streamlining is necessarily an issue - for example, Terrakion doesn't look streamlined at all, and it's got base 108. I do agree with Corkscrew that the nostrils detract from the design, though, and they'll be hell for the spriters to work with.
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Explanation: By adding the typical parrot nostrils, it looks like xylomon has a pair of eyes looking out from under its hood. It uses these as a means to communicate with pokemon and people. When xylomon is agitated, it folds its top 'feathers' around its nostrils to intimidate its foe.
I don't like the nostrils either tbh.
Knirp, the moving parts you added do not make your design more "alive." I appreciate your efforts to improve your design, but it was better without the nostrils. That said, yours is my favorite design and it is by far the most clever take on the "Belly Drum" concept.
@Knirp : Try to keep in mind the integrity and simplicity of your design when considering the critique of others. Your design already has (arguably) too many details, and if you agree with someone's critique that your design is too lifeless, then adding another small detail will certainly not help. If you disagree, that's fine. If you want your design to be able to communicate with others by showing expression, then I don't see what's so important about having the bird be blind. No need to be overly attached to design elements that aren't working. As for the other details: don't get caught up in what everyone is saying about needing them or not needing them. Ultimately, small details won't be sprited, and sprites are the majority of the visibility of the winning design, so if the xylophone keys look to some people as if they will fall off the body, then it's a design flaw that can't be fixed with rivets. This is just an example to help you sort through conflicting critique - personally, I think the keys read just fine without rivets (though I still think there are way too many of them).

@Yilx : I still think a perfect balance between drumstick arms and stiff steel wing arms could be reached by giving it either taloned arms (ex. Blaziken) or winged arms (ex. Farfetch'd, Swanna) that emerge from the "sleeves" that you currently have. On the other hand, the steel coloured parts offer a really nice balance to the other colours you have right now, so if you were to make that change, maybe the steel colouring could be incorporated somewhere else instead, like the lower legs.

@OldManDugan : Really nicely rendered designs, but not only do neither really speak to me, but the bomber is borderline offensive. A belly drumming pokemon with intimidate that draws inspiration from historical tragedies and bombings just kind of goes a bit too far into reality land for me, especially with the rather literal interpretation of the plane that you've taken. Rather than drawing inspiration from a plane, it's a plane with arms and legs that can somehow bend its shape. The bendiness really confuses the steel typing and makes it overall kind of disturbing to me. The rocket dog is certainly more appealing and clever, but I'll agree with others that the legs and underbelly red button are not doing the design any favours and should be reworked.

@Magistrum : I really enjoy your design, and while the steel collar and vest elements feel a bit forced, I guess I can admit that they enhance the steel typing and aren't a big complaint of mine. And, the steel parts definitely stand out against the feathers now that you've fixed the highlighting that we talked about :)

@Golurkyourself : I really like this guy still, and I think some typing concerns could be addressed with shading to help define the shape and texture of his different parts.

@Doran Dragon : Definitely don't dislike the ball and rod arms, but I won't stop you from trying something else. This is one of my favourite designs, I have no critique!

@Quanyails : I guess I don't really get the point of the motorcycle part, and in addition I'm not a big fan of the colour scheme. The bright yellow is pretty distracting. Overall, the design feels pretty disjointed. What kind of bird is it inspired from? Is there anywhere you could go with a more specific inspiration? You could do something with the 'iron fillings' puff, maybe? He definitely has a tough racing guy look to him, so you could go somewhere with that.

@Orivexes : This design doesn't really work - it's overly silly and awkward, the wings aren't incorporated with the rest of the design well, and it's not going to do well with Intimidate or the stats that are being looked at in the stats thread. On the other hand, it's nicely drawn and it's good to see an attempt at humour in the thread, so I'd definitely suggest you try again :)

@Mos-Quitoxe : Very very cool and clever design that works really well in my opinion not only as a fun, unique and interesting design but also with all of the competitive elements we've picked so far. Not sure he needs the yellow ball at the end of his tail (are you anticipating an ability? :) ) or the creepy eyes inside the head (he's intimidating enough without them) but those are minor nitpicks that don't bother me a lot.

@Steampowered : Hm, I could see this working but right now his anatomy is pretty awkward. I can't imagine his arm attaching realistically to his body, and I'm not sure what's supposed to be going on with his head? Still, it has promise, I think you could try sketching some different silhouettes (especially with the stat subs thread in mind) and see if you can find something that works.
Hey why are you all picking on xylo bird's nose? get it? get it? :p

*gets shot*

A bit of supporting art by the way; BP on Landorus and Taunt on Aurumoth.

I'll probably change the number of tailfeathers though because some people commented at IRC that the way it's arranged now, it kinda looks like a marijuana leaf.

As always, comments, critiques and criticisms are welcome ;)

I'll update this post later with comments on some of the designs.

Edit: Comments! I might update more later. :)
@OldManDugan I prefer the your planebot right now over your rocketdog, but the latter might have a good thing going for it if the tentacle-like limbs and the suggestive red button be revised/removed. Good job on the color scheme on both of your designs by the way.
@Steampowered I agree with paintseagull that the anatomy is a bit confusing. I quite don't get the face. Is it like a cobra or is it just a long neck twirled around? The position of the hand is way off too. You could probably make do with another pose though to help us understand it better. :)
@Mos-Quitoxe One minor nitpick is to lessen the tail segments and the teeth to make spriters' lives easier just in case, but otherwise this is a really great design. :)
@Orivexes Uhhh why does it have to be a fat viking harpy? I understand Nidoqueen's chest marking, but IMO yours took a step too much on the chest part, that it looks like it's just tacked on the body. Sorry but I think the design might be better if you revise your design concept into something more cohesive.
@Knirp IMO the design looks simple but I think too many keys on the front of your xylo bird make it cluttered a bit (especially on the spriting). I think a good number would be 7 keys for the entirety of the chest/stomach part (coincides with the 7 musical notes too). Well I won't comment anymore on the nostrils since you already know the consensus of the thread, but IMO tinkering with the eyes is all you need to make it more alive. Keep it up!
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I just want to throw it out there that if Knirp's design looks like it will fall apart easily, then that only makes it fit the concept BETTER. Losing pieces when it drums on its belly would be appropriate due to the side effect of losing half of its health when using Belly Drum.
I just want to throw it out there that if Knirp's design looks like it will fall apart easily, then that only makes it fit the concept BETTER. Losing pieces when it drums on its belly would be appropriate due to the side effect of losing half of its health when using Belly Drum.
LOL what the infernal hell are you blabbering at. It's a xylophone, not some silly stack of jenga that's supposed to fall apart. The whole idea is counterproductive and overall bad.

@Knirp IMO you could keep the nostrils since the idea isn't bad in itself, but placing them on some balls to make them look like false eyes was the bad move. I think the pupils you did in your earlier post was a step in the right direction.

@Magistrum that is one badass Bullet Punch. Also yeah I noticed the marijuana reference. Maybe you could just reduce the tailfeathers to two (same number of those thingies on a navy uniform).

@Yilx I really dig the design, but I find it kinda awkward that the elbows go backwards. It's a minor concern though. :P
Angry/Intimidate xylomon:

Link to regular xylomon (eyes):

A quick redesign.
I gave the bird more obvious eagle-like characteristics (sharper beak, longer legs) and made it taller/skinnier overall. Standing higher on its legs made the belly shorter and more simplified. I think putting on the rivets as small cirkels won't be too troublesome for spriting.

The redesign I think fits the (probable) speedier stat spread better, looks more intimidating (eagle/angry eyes) and is easier to sprite.

Note on the pose/final submission:
For the final submission I will make the bird point at the viewer so it opens up it's right wing. Don't have time to do that now though. I'll wait for the stat spread/second ability before posting another update.
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