Creative (and good) Movesets (READ THE OP FIRST)

[lethminite]

I'm also basing this on the Smogon description. I think you missed the last sentence.

bulbapedia has:

Copycat causes the user to use the last move that the target used. A move called by Copycat in this way counts as the last move used.
Copycat will fail if the target did not make a move selection in the round before the use of Copycat, switches out during the round Copycat is used, or if the opponent's last move used was Copycat or Mirror Move. (Note that if either was used successfully, the move copied by that will be the most recent move used, and so that move will be copied by this use of Copycat.)





kinda confusing, but seems to mean, if you use copycat, you use copycat, then copycat calls overhead throw, making you have used 2 moves that turn, copycat then overhead throw, if for some reason copycat fails, then copycat cant call copycat, or there would be an infinite loop, but normally copycat is never the last moved used, because it makes another move be used as part of its effect.


would need to test it, but from that discription, i think it works.

 

[Adelaide]

I really like the Ambipom set, very gimmicky but just may work, and depriving multiple members of a team of their items whilst doing reasonable damage seems pretty nice.

Gardy I think we've talked about in this thread already, but I'll just nitpick a bit. HP Dragon is pointless - It hits Kingdra alone and only for 140 BP when your STAB Psychic is hitting for 135 BP anyway (and now SwSw+Drizzle is banned Kingdra is less common by far). HP Fire IMO is the best option in the first slot, letting you counter Chlorophyllers not named Venusaur nicely as well as deal with steels coming in on you.

I forgot to mention. Covet seems bugged on PO and doesn't steal the item if you KO them with it... But it should.

 

[NDenizen]

If the last move used on the field was a move called by Copycat, Copycat will fail to copy it. It's as simple as that.

 

[jamashawalker]

lol im bringin to back old school with a set that has had mix results for me but works well...

Crobat@ black sludge
252 HP, 4 def, 252 Spe
-Sleep Talk
-Whirlwind

Thanks to sleeps new reset rule, Sleep inducing moves have been popping up all over the place...Here's the basic description of how it works http://www.smogon.com/rs/pokemon/crobat
Thanks to the new added SR this set it is extremely annoying for any team to face...and when I say "mixed results" is that sometimes I do find myself waking up early, so it ruins the entire strategy and i dont really get a second chance to do it again lol one of the best fun i have had alot using it

 

[NDenizen]

lol im bringin to back old school with a set that has had mix results for me but works well...

Crobat@ black sludge
252 HP, 4 def, 252 Spe
-Sleep Talk
-Whirlwind

Surely with Dragon Tail around, you're better off taking something fast and hard-hitting like Salamence and giving it this? Salamence has a bit of bulk too, so it's not a bad choice.

It's also worth mentioning that with Phaze-SleepTalk sets, you can have other attacking moves too.

This move will not select Assist, Bide, Bounce, Chatter, Copycat, Dig, Dive, Fly, Focus Punch, Me First, Metronome, Mirror Move, Shadow Force, Skull Bash, Sky Attack, Sky Drop, Sleep Talk, SolarBeam, Razor Wind, or Uproar.

 

[Redjar]

Blastoise:
252 HP/ 252 SpecDe/4 Def
@Leftovers

Mirror Coat
Aqua Ring/toxic
Boiling Water
Sub

Great Special bulk off of this thing and no one expects the mirror coat from something w/ a sub up. Boiling water does decent damage and has burn factor. It gets walled by many OU pokes but I'm using him in the "UU" tier that PO has available w/ good results so far. I'm really thinking about a cursetoise set next.

 

[Stratos]

bulbapedia has:

Copycat causes the user to use the last move that the target used. A move called by Copycat in this way counts as the last move used.
Copycat will fail if the target did not make a move selection in the round before the use of Copycat, switches out during the round Copycat is used, or if the opponent's last move used was Copycat or Mirror Move. (Note that if either was used successfully, the move copied by that will be the most recent move used, and so that move will be copied by this use of Copycat.)

kinda confusing, but seems to mean, if you use copycat, you use copycat, then copycat calls overhead throw, making you have used 2 moves that turn, copycat then overhead throw, if for some reason copycat fails, then copycat cant call copycat, or there would be an infinite loop, but normally copycat is never the last moved used, because it makes another move be used as part of its effect.

would need to test it, but from that discription, i think it works.

I'm going to jump in here and point out that it says Target, not user. Ergo, unless your opponent used overhead throw, or you do it to yourself, this strategy will fail.

 

[sax king]

Actually, I just tested it on PO. It works. I like using Bulk Up or Iron Defense with it and maxed out SDef. Definitely a viable strategy.

 

[NatGeo]

Abagoora @ White Herb
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Nature: Adamant

Shell Break
Waterfall
Aqua Jet / Earthquake
Stone Edge

Played this set a while back on PO, and it really never failed me. Shell Break for obvious reasons, though with a White Herb you get to retain your amazing 133 base Defense, while boosting your Attack to amazing levels, already being OK at Base 108. You can Shell Break again afterwards when you can if you are a power-monger, but it's a bit risky. Aqua Jet helps with this, allowing you to take down a few priority users, especially at +4, though you can most definitely take a few attacks at regular defense as well, especially with its enormous base Defense and Solid Rock being a godsend for it in a land of Mach Punches and Vacuum Waves. However, one may opt for Stone Edge to get EdgeQuake coverage. Solid Rock and great defenses also help for switching in to set up.

I think there may be a few tweaks that may need to be told to me, but I think this is a pretty rough set for a 'mon that isn't really used much at all.

EDIT: Ah, sorry about that. I honestly have almost never seen Carracosta on PO, so my bad. :/

 

[JojoX3]

Actually, I just tested it on PO. It works. I like using Bulk Up or Iron Defense with it and maxed out SDef. Definitely a viable strategy.

PO is not the actual game, making it worthless for testing game mechanics. Those in charge could have programmed it wrong after all.

@above Isn´t that the standard Shell Breaker set for Abagoora? Either way, it´s something I want to try at some point. But still is not so creative.

 

[sax king]

PO is not the actual game, making it worthless for testing game mechanics. Those in charge could have programmed it wrong after all.

Yes, but we all play on PO, so that's what really matters. And to be honest, those in charge most likely didn't program it wrong, it's just an odd move that we don't use often, so we're not all familiar with how it works.

And @ NatGeo
That's pretty standard Abagoora/Carracosta to be honest. It's not terribly creative or great. Remember, Underrated =/= Creative

EDIT: I posted the question in the research thread anyway and am currently awaiting a response

 

[NGC-2024]

lol im bringin to back old school with a set that has had mix results for me but works well...

Crobat@ black sludge
252 HP, 4 def, 252 Spe
-Sleep Talk
-Whirlwind

Thanks to sleeps new reset rule, Sleep inducing moves have been popping up all over the place...Here's the basic description of how it works http://www.smogon.com/rs/pokemon/crobat
Thanks to the new added SR this set it is extremely annoying for any team to face...and when I say "mixed results" is that sometimes I do find myself waking up early, so it ruins the entire strategy and i dont really get a second chance to do it again lol one of the best fun i have had alot using it

Maybe a Scarfed Garchomp with sleep talk and dragon tail could work. resists rocks, is faster, different resists and immunities. Worth a shot if you can predict the sleep move lol

 

[Thorhammer]

Yes, but we all play on PO, so that's what really matters. And to be honest, those in charge most likely didn't program it wrong, it's just an odd move that we don't use often, so we're not all familiar with how it works.

And @ NatGeo
That's pretty standard Abagoora/Carracosta to be honest. It's not terribly creative or great. Remember, Underrated =/= Creative

No, it isn't. PO is a simulator, and therefore it is supposed to only have situations that are legitimately possible in the actual games. There are exceptions, such as the Dream World tier allowing unreleased Pokemon and Dream World abilities and certain combinations with them that are currently impossible, but that's still based on what is speculated to actually become possible in the future. If Copycat doesn't copy moves used through Copycat in the actual games, that isn't going to change anytime this generation. If PO has implemented the move improperly, then it needs to be fixed, and improper uses of the move need to be banned in the meantime.

 

[breh]

Yes, but we all play on PO, so that's what really matters. And to be honest, those in charge most likely didn't program it wrong, it's just an odd move that we don't use often, so we're not all familiar with how it works.

And @ NatGeo
That's pretty standard Abagoora/Carracosta to be honest. It's not terribly creative or great. Remember, Underrated =/= Creative

EDIT: I posted the question in the research thread anyway and am currently awaiting a response

Gravity and Freefall are odd moves that we don't use often, yet they're banned on random wifi because they have a crippling glitch that makes them broken.

Do you see a ban on Copycat or Mirror Move? No, you do not.

 

[XienZo]

I'm also basing this on the Smogon description. I think you missed the last sentence.

That's the vague part though.

Technically, it says "Riolu used Overhead Throw" AFTER it says "Riolu used Copycat!"


Also, I was thinking that it wouldn't work by the logic that someone would have abused it by now, but the month-long span before anyone noticed Inconsistent made me rather unsure.

Not to mention there wasn't really a viable way of abusing it in 4th gen either; Assist users were faster than the (max base 95) Copycat users, most of which didn't even get phazing.

Edit:

Finally, I want to make clear that Copycat is not a clone of Mirror Move; Mirror Move only works on the opponent's moves, nor does the move have to succeed.

Edit2: Doesn't work in HG/SS, so it likely won't work in B/W. Oh well.

 

[sax king]

Posted it in the research thread. It has been tested and confirmed. Not only does it work, but it can be chained together. So Riolu has access to a STAB base 60 power phazing move with +1 priority. I'm going to alert the people at PO about the copycat mechanics error. Proof:

I've tested this in game. It works exactly like that. Yes, Riolo can chain overhead throws, but it can also chain roar, which works on substitues and ghosts. This chain can only be broken by faster priority, but they you can just roar again and repeat.

Also, Copycat has 20 pp, up to 32 with PP ups. You could theoretically throw them around for 32 turns.

 

[Thorhammer]

I stand corrected. That's a damn good reason to use Riolu.

If repeated priority phazing is Riolu's purpose, though, it'd probably be better off using both Roar and Overhead Throw so that it could phase anything while retaining the ability to actually hurt things without a need for hazards. It might also want higher Speed, in order to beat slow priority users; even if they don't kill it, any attack would break the Copycat chain. Moves with higher priority could screw things up, as could faster Mischievous Heart users, but those don't break Substitutes, so keeping in the last slot would let Riolu just use the proper phazing move again and resume spamming Copycat. The only question is how to actually keep a Substitute while starting the Copycat chain in the first place...

 

[Lucario_Guy]

Perhaps Baton Pass a truckload of Defense boosts to it? Vaporeon would be a great partner in that case, considering it learns Acid Armor and its Subs are freaking massive with that awesome 125 Base HP.

 

[iruchii]

While it sounds cool and all, even with Evolution Stone Riolu's defenses are laughable -- from what I gather, unless you build a team around it, chances are it's not worth dedicating a teamslot to Riolu. Like Lucario Guy said above, a BP team (or a couple BP Pokémon) with Riolu as the final receiver might work, but then again if you're going through the trouble of Baton Passing stuff we can just go back to the Gorebyss Shell Break stuff.

I do think it has potential though. I mean, priority phazing is a scary concept.

 

[Thorhammer]

While it sounds cool and all, even with Evolution Stone Riolu's defenses are laughable -- from what I gather, unless you build a team around it, chances are it's not worth dedicating a teamslot to Riolu. Like Lucario Guy said above, a BP team (or a couple BP Pokémon) with Riolu as the final receiver might work, but then again if you're going through the trouble of Baton Passing stuff we can just go back to the Gorebyss Shell Break stuff.

I do think it has potential though. I mean, priority phazing is a scary concept.

Best-case scenario, you only need to take one hit to use the move normally before you start spamming Copycat and tossing the opposing Pokemon away before they can hit it again. A team that can reliably set up hazards and has a good way to remove the things that would cause problems for that strategy would greatly benefit from using Riolu.

But even that one hit might be a problem. With max HP and an Evo Stone, Riolu has 284 / 174 / 174 defenses. That's slightly worse than Infernape with no defensive investment at all. So getting the phazing started at all is a challenge. Perhaps screens could help? With Deoxys-S and Latios being allowed, that's particularly easy to manage in this generation. So he'd take some support, but not an unreasonable amount, given the destructive potential.

Of course, unless I'm mistaken, DW Riolu hasn't even been released yet, so it's currently a moot point.

 

[Pombo]

Also, you can always come in things like nonTW blissey/chansey and so on

 

[breh]

While it sounds cool and all, even with Evolution Stone Riolu's defenses are laughable -- from what I gather, unless you build a team around it, chances are it's not worth dedicating a teamslot to Riolu. Like Lucario Guy said above, a BP team (or a couple BP Pokémon) with Riolu as the final receiver might work, but then again if you're going through the trouble of Baton Passing stuff we can just go back to the Gorebyss Shell Break stuff.

I do think it has potential though. I mean, priority phazing is a scary concept.

If it works, how exactly do you kill it? Literally nothing common (most scizor and Azumarill don't run max speed, or anywhere near it) can outspeed it but fake out and e-speed users.

I guess Nattorei and Tyranitar work but you have to let something die to switch tar in safely (yeah it'll only take off half of its health but that still hurts).

 

[Benlisted]

If it works, how exactly do you kill it? Literally nothing common (most scizor and Azumarill don't run max speed, or anywhere near it) can outspeed it but fake out and e-speed users.

I guess Nattorei and Tyranitar work but you have to let something die to switch tar in safely (yeah it'll only take off half of its health but that still hurts).

Any ghost coming in will screw over the combo, forcing the use of Roar if it's even run. Hitting it as it comes in then again as it OTs for the first time is somewhat likely to kill it with most reasonably offensive mons, given Riolu's poor defences. Other faster MH users screw it over somewhat - all Taunting while Thundurus also T-Waves it, letting any priority user chip away at it, and Whimsicott can Stun Spore, Worry Seed or Leech Seed. Normal Priority users can deal with it reasonably too. Preventing hazards being set up will also mean that this strategy takes absolutely ages to hurt anything much, so that's your best bet if you see a Riolu.

 

[Joshiro]

Adamant Aianto @ Focus Sash
Ability: Truant
4 HP / 252 ATT / 252 Spe
Befriend
X-Scissor
Iron Head
Swagger
This thing forces switches like no other. After it has passed off its crippling Truant ability, Truant is removed by:

Timid Mew @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Gastro Acid
Transform
Block
Heat Wave

Mew's Gastro Acid nullifies Aianto's Truant, and Block traps pokemon in to be Truanted. On the first turn, Mew Blocks Aianto's target to be Truanted. At the same time, Aianto Truants that pokemon. The next turn, Mew Gastro Acids Aianto to remove the Truant ability while Aianto Swaggers a pokemon, hopefully a physical attacker. If the pokemon out is a physical attacker, Mew can Transform into it, copying the stat boost without the confusion. Heat Wave is filler that can hit both Pokemon on the opponent's side.

Just an idea :/ but probably not a very good one.

If a Standard Doubles meta game really gains popularity, there will be a ton of people coming up with admittedly well thought out strategies that are too drawn out to use. With all respect to the creator and commentators, anyone who has called this viable hasn't played very much doubles, or at least hasn't battled quality opponents enough. Any strategy that takes more than one turn (two pokemon's moves) is probably not going to work. Even Slaking and Regigigas, who seem absolutely amazing without their ability (which would only take one move to Simple Beam, Skill Swap, or purposely Mummy off) don't really warrant that turn that it takes to set themselves up in Doubles in most cases.

 

[Farewell]

Set: Name- Prioritise

Illumise: Leftovers
252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
CALM (+SpD, - Atk)
*Mischievous Heart

Encore
Substitute
Charm / Light Screen
Wish / Baton Pass

Come in on a set-up move, Encore it, Substitute on the switch, use Wish or Charm with Priority to weaken a counter or heal an ally.
No other Mischievous Heart user has Wish...

Otherwise use Light Screen and Baton Pass for some quick shields in combo with Substitute.


Alternatively:

Setname: Trollbeat

Volbeat: Leftovers
252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm

Encore
Substitute
Swagger
Thunderwave

Switch into a set up move, Encore it, Substitute on the switch, Swagger behind a Substitute and if Substitute breaks, you can make another and wait until they hit themselves in confusion, then Thunderwave them and keep up the Substitutes. This keeps you safe with priority ensuring Substitute is refreshed, while Swagger makes them hit themselves hard. Encore is there when you are safe behind a Substitute, and can switch to a counter (i.e. Encore a Thunderbolt from Magnezone and switch to Dugtrio).