Crisis Core - Round Five

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Magmortar (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Vital Spirit
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Hidden Power Grass
- Fire Blast
- Thunderbolt
- Focus Blast

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Samurott (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Torrent
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Waterfall
- Megahorn
- Aqua Jet

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Vileplume (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Effect Spore
EVs: 252 HP / 208 Def / 48 SpA
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Sludge Bomb
- Giga Drain
- Synthesis
- Sleep Powder

I'm feeling very malicious so here is a three Pokemon core to take down. You still only get two.

This time each person will only get credit for one core they post, any others will not count. Edit into your first post. Feel free to disprove other cores, infact I highly reccomend it.

Since I expect more multi Pokemon cores this round I insist that you explain how your core works. Use damage calcs, thought maps. Explain how you would react to each situation.
Finally for this round: NO HAZARDS ARE ON EITHER SIDE.
If you have a stealth rock pokemon in your core and use a turn to put rocks down then it will be assumed on the other side obvs.

Feel free to make reservaton posts, and good luck all participants! I am hoping this will be a very difficult round.
 
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Altaria (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 80 HP / 252 SDef / 176 Spd
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Hidden Power [Flying]
- Roost
- Haze
- FeatherDance

Against Samurott, Altaria does quite well:

252 Atk Life Orb Samurott (+Atk) Waterfall vs 80 HP/0 Def Altaria: 27.33% - 32.48% (4 hits to KO)
252 +1 Atk Life Orb Samurott (+Atk) Waterfall vs 81 HP/0 Def Altaria: 41.16% - 48.23% (3 hits to KO)

0 SpAtk Altaria Hidden Power Flying vs 4 HP/0 SpDef Samurott: 22.89% - 27.11% (4-5 hits to KO)

Altaria can come in safely on any of its moves and proceed to use Haze and, since Altaria outspeeds, keep Samurott at +0 or below making it very manageable. Because Altaria outspeeds, the flinch chance from Waterfall is negated too. Haze also means that any crit will only do a maximum of 64.96%, since Samurott will only ever be at +0, ensuring that Altaria can Roost and escape even the worst hax. Haze also has the same number of PP as Swords Dance so it can never be PP stalled since Altaria will only ever use Haze after the opponent has used SD. FeatherDance is to be used when the opponent realises that they cannot boost up and begin attacking Altaria. This buys Altaria time to use Roost freely as they struggle to get back to +0 again and protect Altaria from Megahorn while it is roosting.

If Samurott gets into Torrent range then Altaria has a good chance to OHKO thanks to the LO recoil, but it can fall to a crit in this situation since it ignores negative boosts from FeatherDance. Still, all things considered Altaria wins relatively easily here.


Next up is Magmortar who's worst attack is Thunderbolt against Altaria:

252 SpAtk Life Orb Magmortar Thunderbolt vs 80 HP/252 SpDef Altaria (+SpDef) : 29.58% - 35.05% (3-4 hits to KO)
252 SpAtk Life Orb Magmortar Fire Blast vs 80 HP/252 SpDef Altaria (+SpDef) : 27.97% - 32.8% (4 hits to KO)

0 SpAtk Altaria Hidden Power Flying vs 4 HP/0 SpDef Magmortar: 19.86% - 23.97% (5-6 hits to KO)

Altaria can come in relatively safely to Magmortar. Altaria will have at least 42% health after two shots thanks to Leftovers and be able to fire back doing at least 20% damage. The 2 rounds of LO recoil on Magmortar will take it down to at most 60% HP. On Turn 3 and 4, Altaria will need to Roost twice to get to at least 84% health and be able to fire back again on Turn 5. Magmortar will have taken 3 rounds of LO recoil and at least another 20% damage by the end of Turn 5 which puts it at 10% health at most and within range of a self KO on its next shot in Turn 6 while Altaria Roosts up to at least 76% health. At this health, it is safe from both Samurott and Vileplume and has only used 3 Roost PP.

Note that Magmortar had a total of 6 shots at Altaria at maximum, a chance for a crit being 1 in 16 puts a crit chance at 37.5%. This is assuming max damage rolls for Magmortar and min damage for Altaria. Not ideal but still a low enough chance that, even if the opponent acts perfectly and gets everything their way, Altaria is still favourite to win at 62.5% chance.


Vileplume offers a different problem for Altaria. This is Vileplume's best attack and what Altaria does in return:

48 SpAtk Vileplume Sludge Bomb vs 81 HP/252 SpDef Altaria (+SpDef) : 23.15% - 27.33% (4-5 hits to KO)

0 SpAtk Altaria Hidden Power Flying vs 252 HP/0 SpDef Vileplume: 34.75% - 41.53% (3 hits to KO)

Altaria can come in quite safely on everything apart from Sleep Powder and then proceed to put a lot of pressure on Vileplume. Vileplume unfortunately has access to healing but it only has 8 PP compared to 16 PP for Altaria's Roost, this coupled with Altaria's higher damage output and higher speed should see it win easily with plenty of health to spare.

If Altaria comes in on Sleep Powder and the opponent switches to Magmortar then the opponent could get two clean shots at Altaria if it sleeps for 3 straight turns. This doesn't really affect Altaria much because Altaria can take 3 shots from Magmortar and proceed to Roost up again. However this does affect the crit chance because Altaria could be spending 3 extra turns Roosting and then it will take 6 turns to beat Magmortar as outlined above putting the chances of a crit at 9/16 or 56%. If Altaria wakes up in 2 turns then it will win against Magmortar. So yeah, a 3 turn sleep will see Altaria lose to the combination of Vileplume and a crit from Magmortar.

Note that if Altaria gets Paralysed or Poisoned or Burned, it will actually appreciate it because it then cannot be put to Sleep. Being Paralysed just means Altaria will have to Roost earlier and play more cautiously against Magmortar and Samurott. Being Poisoned or Burned means Altaria loses 6% health at the end of every turn, thanks to Leftovers, a very manageable number looking at the calculations.

If a crit doesn't happen against Magmortar or Torrent Samurott then Altaria wins comfortably against all three no matter which order they come and regardless of other hax.
 
Reserving Gardevoir+Swanna.


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Gardevoir (F) @ Damp Rock
Trait: Trace
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Thunder Wave
- Rain Dance
- Destiny Bond
- Memento

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Swanna (F) @ Choice Specs
Trait: Big Pecks
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Surf
- Hyper Beam
- Hidden Power [Poison]
- Hurricane

  • Set weather on Magmortar easily, other Gardevoir moves are filler. Her only objective is setting rain so Swanna's Hurricanes don't miss.
  • Hurricane everything with Swanna that will OHKO all of them easily unless really low damage roll against Samurott (the lowest one actually). Because Magmortar needs 2 hits to bring Gardy down LO recoil will bring him to 80%,putting it on Hurricane's OHKO range,even if Mortar Switches out the odds are on Swanna's side.
  • Swanna non stab moves are there for godlike coverage obviously.

Calcs:
Hurricane: 256-303 (87.97 - 104.12%) Magmortar
Hurricane: 330-388 (99.39 - 116.86%) Samurott
Hurricane: 540-636 (152.54 - 179.66%) Vileplume
 
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Quagsire (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Earthquake
- Scald
- Toxic
- Recover

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Magmar (M) @ Eviolite
Trait: Flame Body
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SDef
Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
- Lava Plume
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

These two take on the 3 mons pretty damn well (bs everyone else stealing my mons) Quagsire can take multiple unboosted megahorns and even torrent boosted waterfalls from samurott, toxicing and recover spamming until its right above torrent range, then using EQ to finish rott off. if they decide to switch into vileplume i have my trusty spD, magmar with sleep talk to counter it, (vital spirit prevents rest from working T_T). it can smack magmortar with a hidden power ground or vileplume with a lava plume, while using restalk to recover and absorb sleep, Quagsire takes on any rott switch ins with ease.

349 Atk vs 442 Def & 334 HP (120 Base Power): 89 - 105 (26.65% - 31.44%)

LO mag focus blast vs magmar, thats the strongest attack it will be taking really.

328 Atk vs 295 Def & 394 HP (80 Base Power): 124 - 147 (31.47% - 37.31%)

LO waterfall vs quagsire, pretty good!

235 Atk vs 226 Def & 291 HP (70 Base Power): 106 - 126 (36.43% - 43.30%)

magmar hp ground vs magmortar, after rocks thats a 2hko, LO recoil makes it easier

235 Atk vs 216 Def & 354 HP (80 Base Power): 188 - 224 (53.11% - 63.28%)

magmar lava plume vs vileplume

i think this is the best i can do with a defensive core, except for possibly alomomola>quag, im not sure if it takes rott though :(
 
Well, all Magmortar has to do is spam Focus Blast. As unlikely as it is to hit 4 in a row, Magmar has to take one on the switch, take one while using HP Ground and then another that finishes it off. If you switch Quagsire into it then it doesn't care either since it will 2HKO Quagsire and 3HKO Magmar while getting 4 attacks off, which means either Vileplume or Samurott can finish the remaining Pokemon.

Definitely not a counter (unless we account for shit accuracy).
 
thanks for pointing that out cbb, well the core still has a chance, i edited my post above to reflect this, if you give up vital spirit for restalk magmar can recover and take hits long enough for that not to happen. (also the focus blast miss thing but w/e)
 
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Electrode @ Heat Rock
Trait: Static
EVs: 28 HP / 228 Def / 252 SpD
Nature: Bold (+Def -Atk)
- Sunny Day
- Taunt
- Explosion
- Selfdestruct

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Exeggutor @ Life Orb
Trait: Chlorophyll
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Nature: Modest (+SpA -Atk)
- Solar Beam
- Psychic
- Psyshock
- Subsitute

So I changed Volbeat to Electrode with a weird EV spread... Good thing with 0 Speed EV it still outspeed Magmortar lol.

Calcs

  • Fire Blast: 226-267 (84.32 - 99.62%) -- guaranteed 2HKO lol it survives with 1 HP. Sure to survive bar crit or burn -.-
  • Waterfall: 144-171 (53.73 - 63.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  • Aqua Jet: 27.23 - 32.46%
  • Just survives a Waterfall + Aqua Jet bar crit
Vileplume doesn't even come close to KO it. The only way to lose is Electrode faints to a crit or burn or if it comes in on Sleep Powder... -.- It's the best option that I can find for now... There's nothing that can switch in on Sleep Powder and I can't afford to use Lum Berry or I will lose to Magmortar :/


If Magmortar first:

  • Volbeat to use Substitute 4 times to lower Magmortar's health with Life Orb recoil
  • After that, use Sunny Day and sacrifice Volbeat
  • Bring in Exeggutor to KO Magmortar with Psyshock
  • KO Samurott with Solar Beam
  • KO Vileplume with Psychic
If Samurott first:

  • Volbeat sets up a Substitute and Encore the previous move
  • Sunny Day
    • Sacrifice Volbeat if Substitute is not up, else use Baton Pass
  • Exeggutor KOes with appropriate move
    • Use Substitute to lower Magmortar's HP into KO range
If Vileplume first:

  • Volbeat sets up Substitute to block Sleep Powder
    • if Sleep Powder is not used, Sludge Bomb breaks Substitute, then use Encore
    • Sludge Bomb cannot 3HKO Sludge Bomb: 88-105 (26.42 - 31.53%) -- possible 4HKO
  • Use Substitute until minimum HP so that Sludge Bomb KOes the next turn.
  • Sunny Day and sacrifice Volbeat to Sludge Bomb
  • Exeggutor KOes with appropriate move
    • Use Substitute to lower Magmortar's HP into KO range
Calcs:
Psyshock vs Magmortar: 252-297 (84.84 - 100%) -- 6.25% chance to OHKO
SolarBeam vs Samurott: 672-794 (202.4 - 239.15%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Psychic vs Vileplume: 446-528 (125.98 - 149.15%) -- guaranteed OHKO


Worst case scenario is Vileplume first. So here's the sequence of events:


Turn 1
Volbeat used Substitute!
Vileplume used Sludge Bomb!
The Substitute faded.

Volbeat - 75%
Vileplume - 100%

Turn 2
Volbeat used Encore!
Vileplume used Sludge Bomb! (31.53 max roll)

Volbeat - 43.47%
Vileplume - 100%

Turn 3
Volbeat used Substitute!
Vileplume used Sludge Bomb!
The Substitute faded.

Volbeat - 18.47%
Vileplume 100%

Turn 4
Volbeat used Sunny Day!
Vileplume used Sludge Bomb!
Volbeat fainted!
Send out Exeggutor

Sun 7 turns left
Exeggutor - 100%
Vileplume - 100%

Turn 5
Exeggutor used Psychic!
Vileplume fainted!
Send out Samurott

Sun 6 turns left
Exeggutor - 90%
Samurott - 100%

Turn 6
Exeggutor used SolarBeam!
Samurott fainted!
Send out Magmortar

Sun 5 turns left
Exeggutor - 80%
Magmortar - 100%

Turn 7
Exeggutor used Substitute!
Magmortar used Fire Blast!
The Substitute faded.
Magmortar is hurt by its Life Orb

Sun 4 turns left
Exeggutor - 55%
Magmortar - 90%

Turn 8
Exeggutor used Substitute!
Magmortar used Fire Blast!
The Substitute faded.
Magmortar is hurt by its Life Orb

Sun 3 turns left
Exeggutor - 30%
Magmortar - 80%

Turn 9
Exeggutor used Psyshock!
Magmortar fainted!
Exeggutor is hurt by its Life Orb

Sun 2 turns left
Exeggutor - 20%
Magmortar - FNT
 
Reserving seadra

not sure if its gonna work so also reserving murkrow as well.


ps: does an argument work if you assume you switch into one of the opposing 'core' pokemon, because usually the opponent will have to use all 3 mon of the core. So for example, if you can switch into one opposing mon 100%, guarantee a setup, and you can kill everything with that setup, does it still count if the other 2 opposing mons completely deny the setup? Because in real-game situations, you only need one setup bait to ruin the game for you.
 
Shedinja
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Shedinja @ Focus Sash
Trait: Wonder Guard
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Sucker Punch
- X-Scissor
- Will-O-Wisp

Completely walls Samurott

Hypno
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Hypno (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Insomnia
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Wish
- Protect
- Toxic
- Psychic

252 SpAtk Life Orb Magmortar Fire Blast vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Hypno (+SpDef) : 43.58% - 51.34%

Can Stall out Fire Blast PP with Wish and Protect, it can only win if it crits or burns in the first two attacks, because it will then be under 70% if it has to attack three times.
Is immune to Sleep Powder and can easily defeat Vileplume with Psychic.

0 SpAtk Hypno Psychic vs 252 HP/0 SpDef Vileplume: 46.61% - 55.08%


252 +2 Atk Shedinja (+Atk) Sucker Punch vs 0 HP/0 Def Magmortar: 70.79% - 83.51%

Shedinja can then take a Fire Blast with its Sash, setup, and destroy the core as Vileplume cannot touch it not can Samurott. Sleep Powder just prolongs the agony.


Tropious: What if the opponent has Samurott leading instead of Magmortar? Even if you beat it with Specs Hurricane, they can then go into Magmortar and the chance of hitting Hurricane twice is less than 50%.
 
About Sandshrewz Pokemon...it doesn't take into account switching in, which is a pretty vital part. Yeah they work 1v1, but Volbeat can't switch into any of the 3 Pokemon core, making it much less effective imo.
 
About Sandshrewz Pokemon...it doesn't take into account switching in, which is a pretty vital part. Yeah they work 1v1, but Volbeat can't switch into any of the 3 Pokemon core, making it much less effective imo.

... It has to switch in??????? .____________________.

Anyway, Volbeat can switch in on every of the 3 Pokemon as long as it comes in on something that won't kill it (besides Sleep Powder -.-). Bait it with Alomomola or something else perhaps??? There will be a safe switch in opportunity if you bait the right thing :d

edit: if you must, then I'll just change the weather setter then -.- But if that's not compulsory then I'm staying with this two I guess? :O

edit 2: okayyyyy... finding a new Sunny Day user that I can just sac haha~
 
Just posting to say that the reservations thing is horrible.

PS: especially with something like magmortar that gets like 5 checks.
 
Yeah as far as I know your Pokemon has/have to be able to switch into all 4 moves of all 4 Pokemon and beat all of them consecutively. Which is why this is such a problem.
 
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Dragonair (F) @ Eviolite
Trait: Shed Skin
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Surf
- Flamethrower

Dragonair can easily switch in on both Magmortar and Vileplume:

252SpAtk Life Orb Magmortar (Neutral) Focus Blast vs 252HP/252SpDef Eviolite Dragonair (+SpDef): 30% - 36% (100 - 118 HP). Guaranteed 4HKO.

48SpAtk Vileplume (Neutral) Sludge Bomb vs 252HP/252SpDef Eviolite Dragonair (+SpDef): 18% - 22% (61 - 73 HP). Guaranteed 6HKO.

Sleep Powder isn't a problem because of Shed Skin. Even if there is a full 3 turn sleep I can just Rest over and over until Shed Skin does activate. Once Dragonair is in a safe position it can either Surf or Flamethrower, depending on whether its facing Magmortar or Vileplume.

0SpAtk Dragonair (Neutral) Surf vs 4HP/0SpDef Magmortar (Neutral): 36% - 43% (108 - 128 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.

0SpAtk Dragonair (Neutral) Flamethrower vs 252HP/0SpDef Leftovers Vileplume (Neutral): 31% - 37% (112 - 134 HP). Guaranteed 4HKO.

Vileplume can use Moonlight to get rid of the damage, but Dragonair is fast so Vileplume has to Moonlight every other turn. A single crit or burn will ruin it, so Dragonair wins in the long run.

Dragonair was damn close to beating this core, but it lost because Samurott is an ass. I tried a Timid version to outspeed, along with Haze and Thunderbolt, but it ends up losing because of Aqua Jet, depsite avoiding the 2HKO from Megahorn. Hence here comes the second part of the core

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Frillish (M) @ Eviolite
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Night Shade
- Recover
- Will-O-Wisp
- Energy Ball


One of the best Samurott counters. Its obviously immune to Waterfall, and worst case scenario it switches into Swords Dance. Samurott then hits Frillish with Megahorn:

252Atk Life Orb +2 Torrent Samurott (+Atk) Megahorn vs 252HP/252Def Eviolite Water Absorb Frillish (+Def): 35% - 42% (112 - 132 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.

And gets burned. At which point Frillish can Recover as Samurott gets to +6 and oh look

252Atk Life Orb +6 Torrent burned Samurott (+Atk) Megahorn vs 252HP/252Def Eviolite Water Absorb Frillish (+Def): 35% - 42% (112 - 132 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.

The same damage lol. Life Orb recoil + burn damage will wear Samurott down, and Frillish can respond with Night Shade or Eneergy Ball if it really wants.

So yeah gg core. Sucks that Dragonair can't do it alone.
 
Altaria post

Yeah Altaria is probably the closest thing to a counter this core has, but I believe there is a way for the core to beat it. It involves fishing for a Sludge Bomb Poison with Vileplume which will then allow Vileplume + Magmortar + Samurott to slowly wear away at its Roost PP. I'll try to get the whole ordeal captured in a battle log.
 
Why FeatherDance and not Cotton Guard?

It's because Haze would take away Cotton Guard boosts too so if Samurott got to +2 then you still need to use Haze to prevent the chance of Samurott critting past Cotton Guard and you remove all your boosts too. With FeatherDance you only ever need to use Haze when Samurott is above +0, and for any other situation you can freely use FeatherDance to buy a free turn as Samurott needs to use SD to bring themselves back up to +0.

So with FeatherDance and Haze, Altaria is always in control of Samurott.
 
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