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Crisis Core - Round Five
- Thread starter Raseri
- Start date
- Status
In that case lets go with
Muk @ Leftovers
Careful (+SD,-SA)
252 HP/4 Attack/252 Sp. Def
-Gunk Shot
-Thunderpunch
-Shadow Sneak
-Protect
Ludicolo
252 SpAtk Ludicolo (+SpAtk) Surf vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Muk (+SpDef) : 34.78% - 40.82%
3-4 hits to KO (with Leftovers)
Possible HP Damage: 144, 145, 147, 148, 150, 151, 153, 154, 157, 159, 160, 162, 163, 165, 166, 169
4 Atk Muk Gunk Shot vs 4 HP/0 Def Ludicolo: 120.2% - 142.05%
Guaranteed OHKO
-Lets assume absolute max damage[6.25%]-
Muk - 245 + Leftovers recovery[26 HP] = 271 health
In comes swanna
<Protect turn>
Muk: 297 health
252 SpAtk Life Orb Swanna Hurricane vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Muk (+SpDef) : 33.57% - 39.86%
3-4 hits to KO (with Leftovers)
Possible HP Damage: 139, 142, 144, 145, 147, 148, 150, 151, 153, 154, 156, 159, 160, 162, 163, 165 Max Damage
252 SpAtk Life Orb Swanna Surf vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Muk (+SpDef) : 40.1% - 47.34%
3 hits to KO (with Leftovers)
Possible HP Damage: 166, 168, 171, 172, 174, 177, 178, 180, 183, 184, 186, 189, 190, 192, 193, 196
4 Atk Life Orb Swanna Brave Bird vs 252 HP/0 Def Muk: 46.38% - 54.35%
2-3 hits to KO (with Leftovers)
Possible HP Damage: 192, 193, 196, 198, 201, 202, 205, 207, 210, 211, 214, 216, 219, 220, 223, 225
4 Atk Muk ThunderPunch vs 0 HP/0 Def Swanna: 114.09% - 134.71%
Guaranteed OHKO
In Conclusion: Muk wins every time.
Muk @ Leftovers
Careful (+SD,-SA)
252 HP/4 Attack/252 Sp. Def
-Gunk Shot
-Thunderpunch
-Shadow Sneak
-Protect
Ludicolo
252 SpAtk Ludicolo (+SpAtk) Surf vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Muk (+SpDef) : 34.78% - 40.82%
3-4 hits to KO (with Leftovers)
Possible HP Damage: 144, 145, 147, 148, 150, 151, 153, 154, 157, 159, 160, 162, 163, 165, 166, 169
4 Atk Muk Gunk Shot vs 4 HP/0 Def Ludicolo: 120.2% - 142.05%
Guaranteed OHKO
-Lets assume absolute max damage[6.25%]-
Muk - 245 + Leftovers recovery[26 HP] = 271 health
In comes swanna
<Protect turn>
Muk: 297 health
252 SpAtk Life Orb Swanna Hurricane vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Muk (+SpDef) : 33.57% - 39.86%
3-4 hits to KO (with Leftovers)
Possible HP Damage: 139, 142, 144, 145, 147, 148, 150, 151, 153, 154, 156, 159, 160, 162, 163, 165 Max Damage
252 SpAtk Life Orb Swanna Surf vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Muk (+SpDef) : 40.1% - 47.34%
3 hits to KO (with Leftovers)
Possible HP Damage: 166, 168, 171, 172, 174, 177, 178, 180, 183, 184, 186, 189, 190, 192, 193, 196
4 Atk Life Orb Swanna Brave Bird vs 252 HP/0 Def Muk: 46.38% - 54.35%
2-3 hits to KO (with Leftovers)
Possible HP Damage: 192, 193, 196, 198, 201, 202, 205, 207, 210, 211, 214, 216, 219, 220, 223, 225
4 Atk Muk ThunderPunch vs 0 HP/0 Def Swanna: 114.09% - 134.71%
Guaranteed OHKO
In Conclusion: Muk wins every time.
Assuming your calcs were true, then you barely survive Rain boosted Ludicolo Hydro Pump + Life Orb Swanna Hurricane. But Rain boosted Swanna Surf is a little stronger than Swanna Hurricane, so if Ludicolo does use RD on the switch, you'll take a HPump, kill, protect, and Swanna's Surf probably has a good shot at barely killing Muk.
Could you provide the calc for Swanna's Surf in Rain vs. your Muk?
Could you provide the calc for Swanna's Surf in Rain vs. your Muk?
The problem with Muk is the fact that Ludicolo doesn't have to Rain Dance as you switch in. If it just uses Surf you will take:
252SpAtk Life Orb Ludicolo (+SAtk) Surf vs 252HP/252SpDef Leftovers Muk (+SpDef): 29% - 35% (124 - 147 HP). Guaranteed 4HKO.
That basically means Muk will take 58% minimum from Stealth Rocks + 2 Surfs + 2 turns of Leftovers. That means it will have 52% if it protects against Swanna AT BEST, meaning Swanna only needs an average roll to finish Muk:
4Atk Life Orb Swanna (Neutral) Brave Bird vs 252HP/0Def Leftovers Muk (Neutral): 45% - 54% (190 - 225 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO. 4% chance to 2HKO with Leftovers.
Of course, if Ludicolo rolls more than minimum damage the chance of Muk dying increases exponentially. You could argue with Muk being able to Protect on the second Surf from Ludicolo, but as far as I know perfect prediction is assumed, which means Ludi could use that turn to set up a Rain Dance, eliminating your chances completely. Basically, as long as the core rolls average damage, Muk does not beat it.
(F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Own Tempo
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Wish
- Protect
- Toxic
- Return
Even with Stealth Rocks on the field, Lickilicky can effortlessly switch into any attack the core can throw at it, use Wish + Protect to stay healthy and Toxic + Return to wear Swanna and Ludicolo down. Even with Roost, Swanna won't be able to survive long against the barrage of Toxic and Return.
252SpAtk Life Orb Ludicolo (+SAtk) Surf in Rain vs 252HP/252SpDef Leftovers Lickilicky (+SpDef): 45% - 53% (192 - 228 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO. 2% chance to 2HKO with Leftovers.
If Ludicolo Rain Dances as Lickilicky comes in, then Licki can just Protect to negate the damage SR caused on the switch-in. After that Lickilicky can Wish and either use Toxic (if Ludicolo didn't roll max damage) or Protect (if he did roll max damage). Once the rain runs out, Lickilicky is pretty much invincible while Toxic + Life Orb recoil will quickly wear away at Ludicolo:
252SpAtk Life Orb Ludicolo (+SAtk) Surf vs 252HP/252SpDef Leftovers Lickilicky (+SpDef): 30% - 36% (130 - 153 HP). Guaranteed 4HKO.
Swanna faces pretty much the same fate, being unable to 2HKO Lickilicky with any of its moves. Since Hydration is unreleased, it won't be able to cure itself from Toxic and will slowly succumb to it, even with Roost:
252SpAtk Life Orb Swanna (Neutral) Surf vs 252HP/252SpDef Leftovers Lickilicky (+SpDef): 26% - 32% (114 - 136 HP). Guaranteed 4HKO.
252SpAtk Life Orb Swanna (Neutral) Surf in Rain vs 252HP/252SpDef Leftovers Lickilicky (+SpDef): 40% - 47% (171 - 202 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.
4Atk Life Orb Swanna (Neutral) Brave Bird vs 252HP/0Def Leftovers Lickilicky (Neutral): 37% - 43% (157 - 186 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.
252SpAtk Life Orb Swanna (Neutral) Hurricane vs 252HP/252SpDef Leftovers Lickilicky (+SpDef): 33% - 40% (144 - 171 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.
The only way Lickilicky can lose is if it misplays or gets crit; even a crit doesn't mean certain death though, since Wish + Protect should be used every possible turn once the opponent is poisoned. I guess confusion from Hurricane could technically beat Lickilicky, but considering the fact that Hurricane needs rain to hit every time (which Swanna can't even set up itself), it's very unlikely.
252SpAtk Life Orb Ludicolo (+SAtk) Surf vs 252HP/252SpDef Leftovers Muk (+SpDef): 29% - 35% (124 - 147 HP). Guaranteed 4HKO.
That basically means Muk will take 58% minimum from Stealth Rocks + 2 Surfs + 2 turns of Leftovers. That means it will have 52% if it protects against Swanna AT BEST, meaning Swanna only needs an average roll to finish Muk:
4Atk Life Orb Swanna (Neutral) Brave Bird vs 252HP/0Def Leftovers Muk (Neutral): 45% - 54% (190 - 225 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO. 4% chance to 2HKO with Leftovers.
Of course, if Ludicolo rolls more than minimum damage the chance of Muk dying increases exponentially. You could argue with Muk being able to Protect on the second Surf from Ludicolo, but as far as I know perfect prediction is assumed, which means Ludi could use that turn to set up a Rain Dance, eliminating your chances completely. Basically, as long as the core rolls average damage, Muk does not beat it.
Trait: Own Tempo
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Wish
- Protect
- Toxic
- Return
Even with Stealth Rocks on the field, Lickilicky can effortlessly switch into any attack the core can throw at it, use Wish + Protect to stay healthy and Toxic + Return to wear Swanna and Ludicolo down. Even with Roost, Swanna won't be able to survive long against the barrage of Toxic and Return.
252SpAtk Life Orb Ludicolo (+SAtk) Surf in Rain vs 252HP/252SpDef Leftovers Lickilicky (+SpDef): 45% - 53% (192 - 228 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO. 2% chance to 2HKO with Leftovers.
If Ludicolo Rain Dances as Lickilicky comes in, then Licki can just Protect to negate the damage SR caused on the switch-in. After that Lickilicky can Wish and either use Toxic (if Ludicolo didn't roll max damage) or Protect (if he did roll max damage). Once the rain runs out, Lickilicky is pretty much invincible while Toxic + Life Orb recoil will quickly wear away at Ludicolo:
252SpAtk Life Orb Ludicolo (+SAtk) Surf vs 252HP/252SpDef Leftovers Lickilicky (+SpDef): 30% - 36% (130 - 153 HP). Guaranteed 4HKO.
Swanna faces pretty much the same fate, being unable to 2HKO Lickilicky with any of its moves. Since Hydration is unreleased, it won't be able to cure itself from Toxic and will slowly succumb to it, even with Roost:
252SpAtk Life Orb Swanna (Neutral) Surf vs 252HP/252SpDef Leftovers Lickilicky (+SpDef): 26% - 32% (114 - 136 HP). Guaranteed 4HKO.
252SpAtk Life Orb Swanna (Neutral) Surf in Rain vs 252HP/252SpDef Leftovers Lickilicky (+SpDef): 40% - 47% (171 - 202 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.
4Atk Life Orb Swanna (Neutral) Brave Bird vs 252HP/0Def Leftovers Lickilicky (Neutral): 37% - 43% (157 - 186 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.
252SpAtk Life Orb Swanna (Neutral) Hurricane vs 252HP/252SpDef Leftovers Lickilicky (+SpDef): 33% - 40% (144 - 171 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.
The only way Lickilicky can lose is if it misplays or gets crit; even a crit doesn't mean certain death though, since Wish + Protect should be used every possible turn once the opponent is poisoned. I guess confusion from Hurricane could technically beat Lickilicky, but considering the fact that Hurricane needs rain to hit every time (which Swanna can't even set up itself), it's very unlikely.
First of all, why was Clefairy granted 0 points while in R1 Woobat got points? Clefairy demands justice.
So basically Regice is really really close, but it depends on damage rolls so fuck that. I ran a few tests and it lost as many as it won, eh.
MOVING ON, lets go Audino
Audino (M) @ Leftovers Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Wish
- Protect
- Toxic
- Thunderbolt
It can easily switch in on Brave Bird, Surf, Hurricane from Swanna (surviving all after rocks because of Protect + Leftovers). Once in it can Wish and Protect stall its way back to health, and then it can use Toxic to wear down Ludicolo, and Thunderbolt to donk Swanna.
0Atk Life Orb Swanna (Neutral) Brave Bird vs 248HP/8Def Leftovers Audino (Neutral): 40% - 48% (166 - 198 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.
252SpAtk Life Orb Swanna (Neutral) Surf in Rain vs 248HP/252SpDef Leftovers Audino (+SpDef): 44% - 52% (183 - 216 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.
252SpAtk Life Orb Swanna (Neutral) Surf vs 248HP/252SpDef Leftovers Audino (+SpDef): 29% - 35% (121 - 145 HP). Guaranteed 4HKO.
252SpAtk Life Orb Swanna (Neutral) Hurricane vs 248HP/252SpDef Leftovers Audino (+SpDef): 37% - 44% (153 - 183 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.
It does the same with Ludicolo, being able to safely come in on either Rain Dance or Surf, then Toxic and Wish stall it out.
252SpAtk Life Orb Ludicolo (+SAtk) Surf in Rain vs 248HP/252SpDef Leftovers Audino (+SpDef): 49% - 58% (204 - 241 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO. 18% chance to 2HKO with Leftovers.
252SpAtk Life Orb Ludicolo (+SAtk) Surf vs 248HP/252SpDef Leftovers Audino (+SpDef): 33% - 39% (136 - 160 HP). Guaranteed 4HKO.
Audino is the champ. Regice so nearly works. Someone else can try and make Regice work if they really want, but I don't think you can do it.
So basically Regice is really really close, but it depends on damage rolls so fuck that. I ran a few tests and it lost as many as it won, eh.
Regice @ Chesto Berry Trait: Clear Body
EVs: 248 HP / 180 Def / 80 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Rest
- Rock Polish
- Thunderbolt
- Toxic
So Regice comes in on Swanna, and is never 2HKOed by Brave Bird after SR (surviving at 1% with max damage rolls). Brave Bird is the best option Swanna has. Regice simply Rests after the second Brave Bird, leaving it at 100% with no item left and no status. At this point it can Rock Polish twice, making it faster than both Swanna and Ludicolo. It can then OHKO Swanna with Thunderbolt, and move on to beating Ludicolo.
4Atk Life Orb Swanna (Neutral) Brave Bird vs 248HP/180Def Regice (+Def): 31% - 37% (114 - 136 HP). Guaranteed 4HKO.
252SpAtk Life Orb Swanna (Neutral) Hurricane vs 248HP/80SpDef Regice (Neutral): 27% - 33% (100 - 120 HP). Guaranteed 4HKO.
252SpAtk Life Orb Swanna (Neutral) Surf in Rain vs 248HP/80SpDef Regice (Neutral): 33% - 38% (120 - 141 HP). Guaranteed 4HKO.
If Regice has to come in on Ludicolo, it cares not whether Ludicolo wants to Surf or Rain Dance. If it Surfs then Ludicolo is free to use Toxic then Rest stall it.
If it Rain dances as Regice switches in, then Regice must use Rest as Ludicolo uses Surf, leaving Regice at 100% with no item, and Rain is still up. At this point Ludicolo cannot 2HKO with Rain boosted Surf, so Regice can Toxic, then Rest the next turn, leaving it at 100% but asleep. Ludicolo will Surf again, but then Rain runs out leaving Regice at worst at 57%. Ludicolo cannot win. Regice will eventually come out of this match up (once Ludicolo dies to Toxic damage) with just enough health to survive a Brave Bird, then wake up and KO with Thunderbolt. The outcome of this depends on the result of every single damage rolls, so here are some logs to show what happens.
252SpAtk Life Orb Ludicolo (+SAtk) Surf in Rain vs 248HP/80SpDef Regice (Neutral): 36% - 43% (133 - 159 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.
252SpAtk Life Orb Ludicolo (+SAtk) Surf vs 248HP/80SpDef Regice (Neutral): 24% - 29% (88 - 106 HP). Guaranteed 5HKO.
EVs: 248 HP / 180 Def / 80 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Rest
- Rock Polish
- Thunderbolt
- Toxic
So Regice comes in on Swanna, and is never 2HKOed by Brave Bird after SR (surviving at 1% with max damage rolls). Brave Bird is the best option Swanna has. Regice simply Rests after the second Brave Bird, leaving it at 100% with no item left and no status. At this point it can Rock Polish twice, making it faster than both Swanna and Ludicolo. It can then OHKO Swanna with Thunderbolt, and move on to beating Ludicolo.
4Atk Life Orb Swanna (Neutral) Brave Bird vs 248HP/180Def Regice (+Def): 31% - 37% (114 - 136 HP). Guaranteed 4HKO.
252SpAtk Life Orb Swanna (Neutral) Hurricane vs 248HP/80SpDef Regice (Neutral): 27% - 33% (100 - 120 HP). Guaranteed 4HKO.
252SpAtk Life Orb Swanna (Neutral) Surf in Rain vs 248HP/80SpDef Regice (Neutral): 33% - 38% (120 - 141 HP). Guaranteed 4HKO.
If Regice has to come in on Ludicolo, it cares not whether Ludicolo wants to Surf or Rain Dance. If it Surfs then Ludicolo is free to use Toxic then Rest stall it.
If it Rain dances as Regice switches in, then Regice must use Rest as Ludicolo uses Surf, leaving Regice at 100% with no item, and Rain is still up. At this point Ludicolo cannot 2HKO with Rain boosted Surf, so Regice can Toxic, then Rest the next turn, leaving it at 100% but asleep. Ludicolo will Surf again, but then Rain runs out leaving Regice at worst at 57%. Ludicolo cannot win. Regice will eventually come out of this match up (once Ludicolo dies to Toxic damage) with just enough health to survive a Brave Bird, then wake up and KO with Thunderbolt. The outcome of this depends on the result of every single damage rolls, so here are some logs to show what happens.
252SpAtk Life Orb Ludicolo (+SAtk) Surf in Rain vs 248HP/80SpDef Regice (Neutral): 36% - 43% (133 - 159 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.
252SpAtk Life Orb Ludicolo (+SAtk) Surf vs 248HP/80SpDef Regice (Neutral): 24% - 29% (88 - 106 HP). Guaranteed 5HKO.
Audino (M) @ Leftovers Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Wish
- Protect
- Toxic
- Thunderbolt
It can easily switch in on Brave Bird, Surf, Hurricane from Swanna (surviving all after rocks because of Protect + Leftovers). Once in it can Wish and Protect stall its way back to health, and then it can use Toxic to wear down Ludicolo, and Thunderbolt to donk Swanna.
0Atk Life Orb Swanna (Neutral) Brave Bird vs 248HP/8Def Leftovers Audino (Neutral): 40% - 48% (166 - 198 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.
252SpAtk Life Orb Swanna (Neutral) Surf in Rain vs 248HP/252SpDef Leftovers Audino (+SpDef): 44% - 52% (183 - 216 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.
252SpAtk Life Orb Swanna (Neutral) Surf vs 248HP/252SpDef Leftovers Audino (+SpDef): 29% - 35% (121 - 145 HP). Guaranteed 4HKO.
252SpAtk Life Orb Swanna (Neutral) Hurricane vs 248HP/252SpDef Leftovers Audino (+SpDef): 37% - 44% (153 - 183 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.
It does the same with Ludicolo, being able to safely come in on either Rain Dance or Surf, then Toxic and Wish stall it out.
252SpAtk Life Orb Ludicolo (+SAtk) Surf in Rain vs 248HP/252SpDef Leftovers Audino (+SpDef): 49% - 58% (204 - 241 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO. 18% chance to 2HKO with Leftovers.
252SpAtk Life Orb Ludicolo (+SAtk) Surf vs 248HP/252SpDef Leftovers Audino (+SpDef): 33% - 39% (136 - 160 HP). Guaranteed 4HKO.
Audino is the champ. Regice so nearly works. Someone else can try and make Regice work if they really want, but I don't think you can do it.
doing this now.
Also editing my post because i calc'd hydro pump and not surf
edit:
Post has been updated for surf on ludicolo over hydro pump as well as surf/BB on swanna.
Muk still wins every time
Cradily!
Cradily
Beneficial typing and ability allow Cradily to tank hits form this core exceptionally well and negate the power of rain through Water Absorb.
(M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Water Absorb
EV's: 252 HP/ 4 Def/ 252 Spd
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Protect
- Recover
- Sludge Wave
- HP Electric
Ludicolo
252 SpAtk Life Orb Ludicolo Giga Drain vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Cradily: 25.53% - 29.79% Guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpAtk Life Orb Ludicolo Ice Beam vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Cradily: 42.02% - 49.47% Guaranteed 3HKO
Swanna
4 Atk Life Orb Swanna Brave Bird vs 0 HP/4 Def Cradily: 49.2% - 58.47% Guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpAtk Life Orb Swanna Hurricane vs 0 HP/255 SpDef Cradily: 42.49% - 50.16% Guaranteed 3HKO
Cradily need only combine Protect and Recover to stall out the duo enough to use a super-effective move. Against Ludicolo, Sludge Wave inflicts 34.44% - 41.06% damage. If Ludicolo has had enough Life Orb recoil, this will 2HKO (Guaranteed 3HKO). For Swanna, Hidden Power Electric inflicts 85.22% - 100.34% damage, a highly likely OHKO on Swanna after Life Orb recoil. The Barnacle Pokemon is a beast!
Cradily
Beneficial typing and ability allow Cradily to tank hits form this core exceptionally well and negate the power of rain through Water Absorb.
Trait: Water Absorb
EV's: 252 HP/ 4 Def/ 252 Spd
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Protect
- Recover
- Sludge Wave
- HP Electric
Ludicolo
252 SpAtk Life Orb Ludicolo Giga Drain vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Cradily: 25.53% - 29.79% Guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpAtk Life Orb Ludicolo Ice Beam vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Cradily: 42.02% - 49.47% Guaranteed 3HKO
Swanna
4 Atk Life Orb Swanna Brave Bird vs 0 HP/4 Def Cradily: 49.2% - 58.47% Guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpAtk Life Orb Swanna Hurricane vs 0 HP/255 SpDef Cradily: 42.49% - 50.16% Guaranteed 3HKO
Cradily need only combine Protect and Recover to stall out the duo enough to use a super-effective move. Against Ludicolo, Sludge Wave inflicts 34.44% - 41.06% damage. If Ludicolo has had enough Life Orb recoil, this will 2HKO (Guaranteed 3HKO). For Swanna, Hidden Power Electric inflicts 85.22% - 100.34% damage, a highly likely OHKO on Swanna after Life Orb recoil. The Barnacle Pokemon is a beast!
Welllll first of all you did the Brave Bird calc wrong, it should be
0Atk Life Orb Swanna (+Atk) Brave Bird vs 252HP/0Def Storm Drain Cradily (Neutral): 44% - 52% (169 - 199 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO. 9% chance to 2HKO.
Even so, Cradily cannot switch in because of Stealth Rock. If Swanna rolls anything above average damage for two turns, even factoring in Protect, then you will lose. 100 - 12 - 50 + 6 = 44% at the end of turn 1. Protect turn 2 leaves Cradily at 50%, so another high roll will end Cradily. Not to mention, even if it manages to avoid these high rolls it will be left in KO range for Ludicolo.
Furthermore, it can't switch into Ludicolo because of Stealth Rock. If Ludicolo rolls high damage then 100 - 12 - 49 + 6 = 45%. After Protect you are at 51%, so you still cannot risk using Sludge Wave as Swanna will beat you next turn. Cradily must spam Recover and hope it avoids Freeze, and even when it does finally get a chance to KO Ludicolo, it is left in KO range for Swanna.
So yeah, not really a counter because SR damage ruins it, and it can be 2HKOed by swanna even through Protect.
0Atk Life Orb Swanna (+Atk) Brave Bird vs 252HP/0Def Storm Drain Cradily (Neutral): 44% - 52% (169 - 199 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO. 9% chance to 2HKO.
Even so, Cradily cannot switch in because of Stealth Rock. If Swanna rolls anything above average damage for two turns, even factoring in Protect, then you will lose. 100 - 12 - 50 + 6 = 44% at the end of turn 1. Protect turn 2 leaves Cradily at 50%, so another high roll will end Cradily. Not to mention, even if it manages to avoid these high rolls it will be left in KO range for Ludicolo.
Furthermore, it can't switch into Ludicolo because of Stealth Rock. If Ludicolo rolls high damage then 100 - 12 - 49 + 6 = 45%. After Protect you are at 51%, so you still cannot risk using Sludge Wave as Swanna will beat you next turn. Cradily must spam Recover and hope it avoids Freeze, and even when it does finally get a chance to KO Ludicolo, it is left in KO range for Swanna.
So yeah, not really a counter because SR damage ruins it, and it can be 2HKOed by swanna even through Protect.
Lickitung
I'm sure people will be questioning the viability of Lickitung in this tier when Lickilicky exists, however, it would be apt to compare Lickitung to Chansey in OU. While Blissey exists, Chansey is still used for its better bulk even without Leftovers. Same applies for Lickitung which can wall even better than Lickilicky.
Lickitung (M) @ Eviolite
Trait: Own Tempo
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Toxic
- Wish
- Protect
- Knock Off / Seismic Toss
252 SpAtk Life Orb Swanna Hurricane vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Eviolite Lickitung (+SpDef) : 29.69% - 34.64%
4 Atk Life Orb Swanna Brave Bird vs 252 HP/0 Def Eviolite Lickitung: 33.59% - 39.32%
252 SpAtk Life Orb Swanna Surf IN RAIN vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Eviolite Lickitung (+SpDef) : 34.64% - 40.89%
252 SpAtk Life Orb Ludicolo (+SpAtk) Surf IN RAIN vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Eviolite Lickitung (+SpDef) : 38.54% - 45.57%
252 SpAtk Life Orb Ludicolo (+SpAtk) Giga Drain vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Eviolite Lickitung (+SpDef) : 21.09% - 24.48%
Lickitung doesn't lose unless it gets crit haxed or multiple Hurricane confusions.
I'm sure people will be questioning the viability of Lickitung in this tier when Lickilicky exists, however, it would be apt to compare Lickitung to Chansey in OU. While Blissey exists, Chansey is still used for its better bulk even without Leftovers. Same applies for Lickitung which can wall even better than Lickilicky.
Lickitung (M) @ Eviolite
Trait: Own Tempo
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Toxic
- Wish
- Protect
- Knock Off / Seismic Toss
252 SpAtk Life Orb Swanna Hurricane vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Eviolite Lickitung (+SpDef) : 29.69% - 34.64%
4 Atk Life Orb Swanna Brave Bird vs 252 HP/0 Def Eviolite Lickitung: 33.59% - 39.32%
252 SpAtk Life Orb Swanna Surf IN RAIN vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Eviolite Lickitung (+SpDef) : 34.64% - 40.89%
252 SpAtk Life Orb Ludicolo (+SpAtk) Surf IN RAIN vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Eviolite Lickitung (+SpDef) : 38.54% - 45.57%
252 SpAtk Life Orb Ludicolo (+SpAtk) Giga Drain vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Eviolite Lickitung (+SpDef) : 21.09% - 24.48%
Lickitung doesn't lose unless it gets crit haxed or multiple Hurricane confusions.
I love how, so far, the only solid one-Pokemon counters have been Normal types with good mixed bulk.
Really, there isn't a lot that can switch into both Surf and Brave Bird.
Really, there isn't a lot that can switch into both Surf and Brave Bird.
Yeah, but I can't give up my lead now so better use one Pokemon only.
Miltank @ Leftovers
Sap Sipper | Careful
252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
-Milk Drink
-Heal Bell
-Thunder Wave
-Body Slam
+
Dodrio @ Life Orb
Early Bird | Jolly
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
-Brave Bird
-Return
-Taunt
-Roost
Aim of the game here is to get Miltank in, spamming Thunder Wave like all hell to ensure that Dodrio can sweep cleanly. Miltank can come in on either Swanna or Ludicolo, and it isn't 2HKOed by any of there attacks outside of rain. This means that Ludicolo will have to choose between paralysis + rain up or paralysis + a damaged miltank. from there Miltank can stall Life Orb recoil if that's the way you want to go. At the end of the day though, Dodrio is just going to come out and obliterate the core, since rain will either not be up after Miltank has fainted, or Ludicolo will be paralyzed. Brave Bird OHKOes Ludicolo, and you outspeed and KO the core completely; LO Return has and 81.25% chance to OHKO Swanna at full health, while Ludicolo is KOed by Brave Bird. As an added plus, Dodrio has Taunt to make sure that they don't Roost or use Rain Dance!
Feeling lazy so here's a two Pokemon core.
Swellow (M) @ Toxic Orb
Trait: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Protect
- Facade
- Brave Bird
- U-turn
Illumise (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Encore
- Sunny Day
- U-turn
- Wish
The idea is to switch in Illumise against either Ludicolo or Swanna in order to allow Swellow to come in safely. Sunny Day and Encore makes sure that Rain will never be up, allowing Swellow to outspeed and KO both Pokemon effortlessly. If Illumise switches in on an attack and dies, weather will not be up and Swellow can come in safely and Protect or Brave Bird depending on the situation.
252 Atk Swellow Brave Bird vs 0 HP/0 Def Ludicolo: 131.56% - 155.48%
Guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Guts Swellow Facade vs 0 HP/0 Def Swanna: 128.18% - 151.55%
Guaranteed OHKO
Swellow (M) @ Toxic Orb
Trait: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Protect
- Facade
- Brave Bird
- U-turn
Illumise (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Encore
- Sunny Day
- U-turn
- Wish
The idea is to switch in Illumise against either Ludicolo or Swanna in order to allow Swellow to come in safely. Sunny Day and Encore makes sure that Rain will never be up, allowing Swellow to outspeed and KO both Pokemon effortlessly. If Illumise switches in on an attack and dies, weather will not be up and Swellow can come in safely and Protect or Brave Bird depending on the situation.
252 Atk Swellow Brave Bird vs 0 HP/0 Def Ludicolo: 131.56% - 155.48%
Guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Guts Swellow Facade vs 0 HP/0 Def Swanna: 128.18% - 151.55%
Guaranteed OHKO
Theorymon here, but couldn't SD Ludicolo beat this?
Ludicolo (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 hp/ 252 atk (or take hp evs away and put into speed to outspeed swanna)
Adamant / Jolly(+Speed, -Spec.Atk)
- Drain Punch
- Waterfall
- Seed Bomb
- Swords Dance
You can't come in on Swanna, but can come in on Ludicolo easily. Ludicolo can't really touch you, then you get up to +2 and wreck both. Swanna has piss poor defences and is ko'd by a +2 seed bomb iirc
Ludicolo (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 hp/ 252 atk (or take hp evs away and put into speed to outspeed swanna)
Adamant / Jolly(+Speed, -Spec.Atk)
- Drain Punch
- Waterfall
- Seed Bomb
- Swords Dance
You can't come in on Swanna, but can come in on Ludicolo easily. Ludicolo can't really touch you, then you get up to +2 and wreck both. Swanna has piss poor defences and is ko'd by a +2 seed bomb iirc
If your Pokemon can't come in on Swanna then it doesn't count as a counter to this core.
being unable to switch in on swanna definitely prevents it from being a counter to this core (also swanna outspeeds it outside of rain and ohkoes with brave bird)
50 SECONDS FLCL UGH
Good work with the sets so far guys, I'd like to see some discussion on sets that haven't been discussed yet(it saves me the work of figuring it out lol) but there are lots of unique ways to counter this core.
Also, since I'm running low on ideas for cores if you have any ideas feel free to submit them to me via PM :) I have a few more but I'm afraid theyll be to easy!
Also, since I'm running low on ideas for cores if you have any ideas feel free to submit them to me via PM :) I have a few more but I'm afraid theyll be to easy!
I want to start this by saying if swoobat gets points, then clefairy definately deserves them because it was the most original answer to that rounds core which is, imo, more interesting and involved and just generally more entertaining to read.
----------
Also, bah Miltank is taken :/. Miltank was the first answer for me, and I want to mention it as it is a stand alone answer to this core and can be used fairly offensively to do so, it doesn't have to be able to wall the combo to win. I was running a jolly nature with enough speed to outrun Swanna with the rest dumped into bulk. I used @Lefties and any ability works, though sap sipper is best; Thunder Wave/ Sunny Day/ Thunder Punch/ Milk Drink easily beats that core if no crits, freezes, or confuses happen against you. The only problem with this set is it is so tailored against the core and almost never going to be seen in real use.
---------
The trouble with this one for me was the fact we have to switch our counter into SR and take a hit, and then take another hit unless we are faster than swanna (or take one hit if we assume ludi rain dances). There is like 5 pokemon that can come in on either of them and take 2 hits and survive after taking SR damage, so I was pretty much stumped until I realized that their SR was sort of the key to beating them:
Shedinja's set doesn't matter at all. Just run whatever you want. Analysis set works. My suggestion is:
@Black Sludge
Bold; 252 Hp/ 252 Def/ 4 Sp. Def.
- Rest
- Protect
- Shadow Sneak
- Sunny Day
+
@ Coba Berry (reduces flying moves by 50%)
Chlorophyll; Modest; 252 Sp. Atk/ 148 Hp/ 108 Spe
- Hidden Power Electric
- Sludge Bomb
- Sunny Day
- Whatever move you want (Grass STAB like Solarbeam makes sense here)
---------
HOW IT WORKS (Hide tags are to make this not such a wall of text):
Really this can work regardless of your first pokemon so long as it dies, which it will have to. Also, I'm sure there are other possible sweepers in this scenario. This one was just the one that used weather to beat weather and used my opponents entry hazards against them. Using Shedinja just makes sure no matter what they do that turn that vileplume is coming in the subsequent turn for the win, and I thought it a unique way to use his drawback in a positive way. Imo, the coba berry + hp electric vileplume is more gimmick than shedinja dying to hazards which happens plenty. That being said, Vileplume's set is a perfectly viable one even if it is pretty obscure. Its not unheard of to run these berries to counter sepecific threats. Tyranitar running them in OU way back when I played that tier is the example that springs to mind fastest. In the same way, you can survive their attack, set up and respond with a ko potentially removing their only counter to your pokemon.
SO, dead core regardless of what they do... Points, please :3?
==========
Tl;DR
Swanna is surprisingly difficult to switch into. Vileplume revenge kill sweeps this core. Also, Shedinja is the new heatran for this game. Is it cheap? A little. Does it beat the core? Yes.
Also, if Shedinja sacrificing is viewed as "too cheap" or "not real synergy" where I see it as a unique way to abuse entry hazards, then I have a back up pokemon:
@ Eviolite (I'm fairly sure you can ev this to survive any attack from either one while running a choice scarf and it will still work just fine, but I had spent so long looking for an answer to "what switches into Swanna and survives?" I was determined to find something that hadn't been used yet and scarfed Memento seemed less likely than Destiny Bond which could be pp stalled into death by struggle. It would still work and I would still win, but they would control how my Mis dies which sort of takes away cool points).
Calm; 252 Hp/ 36 Def./ 84 Sp. Def./ 136 Spe.
- Memento
- Whatever move
- Whatever move
- Whatever move
This one comes in and survives any two of their moves plus SR damage. I was originally going to suggest a combination of Taunt+ Sunny Day+ Thunderbolt+ Pain Split, but I was able to reason that Ludicolo and Swanna could potentially win through smart switches, because they do not have hazards. Eventually, Memento was just the easiest sure fire solution to the problem. Here is how its set- up works.
NOTE- You will always start by sending in missy:
Ludi is in first:
1) it attacks and you survive to use Memento AND you are faster
2) it crits and you still live and are faster to use Memento
3) it Rain Dances and you use Memento
Swanna is in first:
1) it attacks and you survive to use Memento
2) it crits and you die in 2 attacks
They can also switch on sight for some reason and you will still memento. Regardless, you get to die crippling something and get Vileplume in for free. Or they can hax you and you die, but you STILL get vileplume in untouched which is a win bar hax.
NOTE: if Shedinja is accepted for points I'll adjust option 2 so that I can combine it with another pokemon for an additional point (I'll even use a whole new Mis set without Memento).
==========
New one:
@Focus Sash
Magic Guard; Timid; 252 Sp. Atk/ 252 Spe/ 4 Sp Def.
- Charge Beam
- Psyshock
- Thunder Wave
- Encore
+
@Choice Band
Adamant; 168 Hp/ 252 Atk./ 44 Def/ 44 Sp. Def
- Extremespeed
- Shadow Claw
- Seed Bomb
- Switcheroo
HOW IT WORKS:
==========
ANNUDER ONE:
@Eviolite
Timid; 4 Hp/ 252 Sp. Atk./ 252 Speed
- Volt- Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power Ice
- Signal Beam/ Focus Blast
+
@Expert Belt (Really anything useful that isn't a choice item works here)
Swift Swim (Cloud Nine will also work); Modest; 252 Sp. Atk/ 252 Spe/ 4 Def
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power Electric
- Signal Beam
HOW IT WORKS:
I want to keep adding more, but I wont.
----------
Also, bah Miltank is taken :/. Miltank was the first answer for me, and I want to mention it as it is a stand alone answer to this core and can be used fairly offensively to do so, it doesn't have to be able to wall the combo to win. I was running a jolly nature with enough speed to outrun Swanna with the rest dumped into bulk. I used @Lefties and any ability works, though sap sipper is best; Thunder Wave/ Sunny Day/ Thunder Punch/ Milk Drink easily beats that core if no crits, freezes, or confuses happen against you. The only problem with this set is it is so tailored against the core and almost never going to be seen in real use.
---------
The trouble with this one for me was the fact we have to switch our counter into SR and take a hit, and then take another hit unless we are faster than swanna (or take one hit if we assume ludi rain dances). There is like 5 pokemon that can come in on either of them and take 2 hits and survive after taking SR damage, so I was pretty much stumped until I realized that their SR was sort of the key to beating them:
Shedinja's set doesn't matter at all. Just run whatever you want. Analysis set works. My suggestion is:
@Black Sludge
Bold; 252 Hp/ 252 Def/ 4 Sp. Def.
- Rest
- Protect
- Shadow Sneak
- Sunny Day
+
@ Coba Berry (reduces flying moves by 50%)
Chlorophyll; Modest; 252 Sp. Atk/ 148 Hp/ 108 Spe
- Hidden Power Electric
- Sludge Bomb
- Sunny Day
- Whatever move you want (Grass STAB like Solarbeam makes sense here)
---------
HOW IT WORKS (Hide tags are to make this not such a wall of text):
Shedinja always comes in first, and promptly dies due to SR regardless of move selected which is the best possible set up for Vileplume. At that point, Vileplume will come in and immediately use Sunny Day. Because of coba berry, no one attack in that core will KO Vileplume bar hax. You out speed both Swanna and Ludi in the sun, and are slower than both before sun, so Sunny Day will always stick regardless of their move choice. As long as no unforseen tragedy happens on your set up turn you have the perfect amount of sun turns to obliterate the core. No amount of smart switching will save them from losing in the subsequent 4 turns.
If Swanna is in, use HP Electric once and then spam Sludge Bomb for the win:
1) Swanna dies; Use Sludge bomb the next turn to kill Ludicolo
2) Swanna switches and Ludicolo takes some damage.
-At this point use Sludge Bomb. 2 will easily kill Swanna if he switches into the first one and one will easily kill Ludicolo if it stays in.
-If they let Ludicolo die to Sludge Bomb, then use HP Electric for the kill on Swanna the following turn.
If Ludicolo is in, use Sludge Bomb
1) Ludicolo dies
2) Ludicolo switches to Swanna who is 2hko'd by Sludge Bomb after taking one on the switch. Sludge bomb Ludi when it comes back in for the kill on it as well.
Even if they make the best possible switches into these attacks, the core is unable to survive the 4 turns of Vileplumes boosted speed. The best they can come up with is
1) Swanna switch to Ludi taking HP Electric
2) Ludi Switch to Swanna taking Sludge Bomb
3) Sludge Bomb ko's one poke at this point regardless of who it is
4) Sludge Bomb ko's the other poke on the last turn of sun (or hp electric if it is swanna, either move works).
1) Swanna dies; Use Sludge bomb the next turn to kill Ludicolo
2) Swanna switches and Ludicolo takes some damage.
-At this point use Sludge Bomb. 2 will easily kill Swanna if he switches into the first one and one will easily kill Ludicolo if it stays in.
-If they let Ludicolo die to Sludge Bomb, then use HP Electric for the kill on Swanna the following turn.
If Ludicolo is in, use Sludge Bomb
1) Ludicolo dies
2) Ludicolo switches to Swanna who is 2hko'd by Sludge Bomb after taking one on the switch. Sludge bomb Ludi when it comes back in for the kill on it as well.
Even if they make the best possible switches into these attacks, the core is unable to survive the 4 turns of Vileplumes boosted speed. The best they can come up with is
1) Swanna switch to Ludi taking HP Electric
2) Ludi Switch to Swanna taking Sludge Bomb
3) Sludge Bomb ko's one poke at this point regardless of who it is
4) Sludge Bomb ko's the other poke on the last turn of sun (or hp electric if it is swanna, either move works).
Really this can work regardless of your first pokemon so long as it dies, which it will have to. Also, I'm sure there are other possible sweepers in this scenario. This one was just the one that used weather to beat weather and used my opponents entry hazards against them. Using Shedinja just makes sure no matter what they do that turn that vileplume is coming in the subsequent turn for the win, and I thought it a unique way to use his drawback in a positive way. Imo, the coba berry + hp electric vileplume is more gimmick than shedinja dying to hazards which happens plenty. That being said, Vileplume's set is a perfectly viable one even if it is pretty obscure. Its not unheard of to run these berries to counter sepecific threats. Tyranitar running them in OU way back when I played that tier is the example that springs to mind fastest. In the same way, you can survive their attack, set up and respond with a ko potentially removing their only counter to your pokemon.
SO, dead core regardless of what they do... Points, please :3?
==========
Tl;DR
Swanna is surprisingly difficult to switch into. Vileplume revenge kill sweeps this core. Also, Shedinja is the new heatran for this game. Is it cheap? A little. Does it beat the core? Yes.
Also, if Shedinja sacrificing is viewed as "too cheap" or "not real synergy" where I see it as a unique way to abuse entry hazards, then I have a back up pokemon:
@ Eviolite (I'm fairly sure you can ev this to survive any attack from either one while running a choice scarf and it will still work just fine, but I had spent so long looking for an answer to "what switches into Swanna and survives?" I was determined to find something that hadn't been used yet and scarfed Memento seemed less likely than Destiny Bond which could be pp stalled into death by struggle. It would still work and I would still win, but they would control how my Mis dies which sort of takes away cool points).
Calm; 252 Hp/ 36 Def./ 84 Sp. Def./ 136 Spe.
- Memento
- Whatever move
- Whatever move
- Whatever move
This one comes in and survives any two of their moves plus SR damage. I was originally going to suggest a combination of Taunt+ Sunny Day+ Thunderbolt+ Pain Split, but I was able to reason that Ludicolo and Swanna could potentially win through smart switches, because they do not have hazards. Eventually, Memento was just the easiest sure fire solution to the problem. Here is how its set- up works.
NOTE- You will always start by sending in missy:
Ludi is in first:
1) it attacks and you survive to use Memento AND you are faster
2) it crits and you still live and are faster to use Memento
3) it Rain Dances and you use Memento
Swanna is in first:
1) it attacks and you survive to use Memento
2) it crits and you die in 2 attacks
They can also switch on sight for some reason and you will still memento. Regardless, you get to die crippling something and get Vileplume in for free. Or they can hax you and you die, but you STILL get vileplume in untouched which is a win bar hax.
==========
New one:
@Focus Sash
Magic Guard; Timid; 252 Sp. Atk/ 252 Spe/ 4 Sp Def.
- Charge Beam
- Psyshock
- Thunder Wave
- Encore
+
@Choice Band
Adamant; 168 Hp/ 252 Atk./ 44 Def/ 44 Sp. Def
- Extremespeed
- Shadow Claw
- Seed Bomb
- Switcheroo
HOW IT WORKS:
It works because Kadabra is a boss and will always get off at least one attack on this core before he dies thanks to his speed and ability. This Kadabra set really only needs Charge Beam and Psyshock to work, and since both moves are perfectly viable on him, as is his held item, its not unlikely to see a set like this once in a while (Thunder Wave is admittedly unlikely, but can be carried to hit choice scarfed switch in's after an encore trap, etc. At the very least it is a feasible set and not a pure gimmick.). Anyway you make your moves like this:
Always start with Kadabra first
If Swanna is in:
1) Charge Beam
a) Swanna dies and ludicolo comes in
b) Swanna switches to Ludicolo, you can then get off a Psyshock before you die.
- If Swanna comes back in and takes the Psychock just keep spamming Psyshock.
- If Ludicolo takes the Psyshock and kills you send in Linoone and sweep with Extremespeed (you will take a hit from Swanna, but will survive). Even if he Rain Dances taking a Psyshock and then kills you, you will revenge ko it due to priority taking no damage on Linoone.
If Ludicolo is in and attacks:
1) Use Psyshock until you die
- Send in Linoone and sweep with Extremespeed.
If Ludicolo is in and uses Rain Dance:
1) Use Thunderwave
- Spam Psyshock until you die (if Ludi Fully Paralyzes, then you sweep the core with just Kadabra)
- Send in Linoone and clean up
Always start with Kadabra first
If Swanna is in:
1) Charge Beam
a) Swanna dies and ludicolo comes in
b) Swanna switches to Ludicolo, you can then get off a Psyshock before you die.
- If Swanna comes back in and takes the Psychock just keep spamming Psyshock.
- If Ludicolo takes the Psyshock and kills you send in Linoone and sweep with Extremespeed (you will take a hit from Swanna, but will survive). Even if he Rain Dances taking a Psyshock and then kills you, you will revenge ko it due to priority taking no damage on Linoone.
If Ludicolo is in and attacks:
1) Use Psyshock until you die
- Send in Linoone and sweep with Extremespeed.
If Ludicolo is in and uses Rain Dance:
1) Use Thunderwave
- Spam Psyshock until you die (if Ludi Fully Paralyzes, then you sweep the core with just Kadabra)
- Send in Linoone and clean up
ANNUDER ONE:
@Eviolite
Timid; 4 Hp/ 252 Sp. Atk./ 252 Speed
- Volt- Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power Ice
- Signal Beam/ Focus Blast
+
@Expert Belt (Really anything useful that isn't a choice item works here)
Swift Swim (Cloud Nine will also work); Modest; 252 Sp. Atk/ 252 Spe/ 4 Def
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power Electric
- Signal Beam
HOW IT WORKS:
This combo just has the right combination of abilites, bulk, and coverage to muscle its way through the opponents core regardless of their actions. Note that Cloud Nine can also work in this scenario, but you will always be slower than Swanna in that instance whereas if Ludicolo uses Rain Dance, then you will be faster than both and sweep with Golduck no problem.
Always start by switching to Electabuzz
Swanna is in:
Swanna attacks you survive (note that if she brave birds she may become paralyzed due to static which is an even more guaranteed win)
1) Use Thunderbolt
a) Swanna dies
b) Ludicolo switches in and takes a thunderbolt
- At this point you can signal beam and the opponent will not win regardless of what they do (Note: if Focus Blast is your option you can still win). Even if they let the Swanna die to Electabuzz and Ludicolo Rain Rances, its going to take an attack from Electabuzz before it sets up putting it into Golduck ko range who will always outspeed it.
Ludicolo is in:
1) It attacks and you survive using Signal Beam/ Thunderbolt in response until you faint or it faints.
-If it kills you, simply go to Golduck and Signal Beam for a kill. If it goes to Swanna, use Hp Electric. Rinse and repeat until you win.
2) If it uses Rain Dance, take its hit the following turn and respond with Thunderbolt.
-Die like a man and let Golduck come in with a Swift Swim boost for the sweep revenge killing Ludicolo and then OHKO'ing Swanna before she can move.
Expert Belt is chosen on Golduck over Life Orb so Swanna cannot stall LO recoil with Roost and smart switches and then ko with a Brave Bird. Expert belt isn't unheard of because it can bluff a choice item while still allowing for boosted attacks.
Always start by switching to Electabuzz
Swanna is in:
Swanna attacks you survive (note that if she brave birds she may become paralyzed due to static which is an even more guaranteed win)
1) Use Thunderbolt
a) Swanna dies
b) Ludicolo switches in and takes a thunderbolt
- At this point you can signal beam and the opponent will not win regardless of what they do (Note: if Focus Blast is your option you can still win). Even if they let the Swanna die to Electabuzz and Ludicolo Rain Rances, its going to take an attack from Electabuzz before it sets up putting it into Golduck ko range who will always outspeed it.
Ludicolo is in:
1) It attacks and you survive using Signal Beam/ Thunderbolt in response until you faint or it faints.
-If it kills you, simply go to Golduck and Signal Beam for a kill. If it goes to Swanna, use Hp Electric. Rinse and repeat until you win.
2) If it uses Rain Dance, take its hit the following turn and respond with Thunderbolt.
-Die like a man and let Golduck come in with a Swift Swim boost for the sweep revenge killing Ludicolo and then OHKO'ing Swanna before she can move.
Expert Belt is chosen on Golduck over Life Orb so Swanna cannot stall LO recoil with Roost and smart switches and then ko with a Brave Bird. Expert belt isn't unheard of because it can bluff a choice item while still allowing for boosted attacks.
I want to keep adding more, but I wont.
Okay, I can't see how any of the above cores except Electabuzz + Golduck wins (and even then they can still lose with a high roll).
Shedinja + Vileplume has 64% chance to lose if Shedinja has to switch into Swanna. Once Vileplume comes in, Swanna will outspeed it and do
4Atk Life Orb Swanna (Neutral) Brave Bird in Rain vs 148HP/0Def Coba Berry Vileplume (Neutral): 52% - 62% (172 - 204 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
while you set up Sunny Day and subsequently kill it with Hidden Power [Electric]. Now a completely healthy Ludicolo comes in, takes only
252SpAtk Vileplume (+SAtk) Sludge Bomb in Rain vs 4HP/0SpDef Leftovers Ludicolo (Neutral): 89% - 105% (270 - 320 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 36% chance to OHKO.
while easily dealing the remaining 48% with Ice Beam.
Kadabra + Linoone is even worse off and I have no idea why you think it counters the core.
Assuming Ludicolo uses Rain Dance as you come in, it can then use Surf to break your Sash the next turn while you Thunder Wave. Afterwards, Kadabra will launch a Psyshock while dying to another Surf because it only deals
252SpAtk Kadabra (Neutral) Psyshock in Rain vs 4HP/0Def Ludicolo (Neutral): 54% - 64% (166 - 196 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
Now Linoone can come in, Extremespeed Ludicolo, fail to KO Swanna and die to a rain boosted Surf.
252Atk Choice Band Linoone (+Atk) ExtremeSpeed in Rain vs 4HP/0Def Swanna (Neutral): 71% - 84% (210 - 247 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
252SpAtk Life Orb Swanna (Neutral) Surf in Rain vs 168HP/44SpDef Linoone (Neutral): 94% - 111% (319 - 378 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 66% chance to OHKO.
Electabuzz + Golduck fares arguably the best, only losing around 15% of the time.
Ludicolo uses Surf twice, once while Buzz switches in, while Electabuzz uses Signal Beam which doesn't KO. Golduck comes in afterwards and uses Signal Beam to kill Ludicolo. Thanks to Stealth Rock, Golduck has an approximate 15% chance to get KO'd by Hurricane taking its accuracy into account:
252SpAtk Life Orb Swanna (Neutral) Hurricane vs 4HP/0SpDef Cloud Nine Golduck (Neutral): 77% - 91% (234 - 276 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
That's probably the best of the three but it really isn't a "counter".
Also Raseri, if you think that Clefairy is ridiculous then you might want to look into Hidden Power [Electric] Vileplume as well.
Shedinja + Vileplume has 64% chance to lose if Shedinja has to switch into Swanna. Once Vileplume comes in, Swanna will outspeed it and do
4Atk Life Orb Swanna (Neutral) Brave Bird in Rain vs 148HP/0Def Coba Berry Vileplume (Neutral): 52% - 62% (172 - 204 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
while you set up Sunny Day and subsequently kill it with Hidden Power [Electric]. Now a completely healthy Ludicolo comes in, takes only
252SpAtk Vileplume (+SAtk) Sludge Bomb in Rain vs 4HP/0SpDef Leftovers Ludicolo (Neutral): 89% - 105% (270 - 320 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 36% chance to OHKO.
while easily dealing the remaining 48% with Ice Beam.
Kadabra + Linoone is even worse off and I have no idea why you think it counters the core.
Assuming Ludicolo uses Rain Dance as you come in, it can then use Surf to break your Sash the next turn while you Thunder Wave. Afterwards, Kadabra will launch a Psyshock while dying to another Surf because it only deals
252SpAtk Kadabra (Neutral) Psyshock in Rain vs 4HP/0Def Ludicolo (Neutral): 54% - 64% (166 - 196 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
Now Linoone can come in, Extremespeed Ludicolo, fail to KO Swanna and die to a rain boosted Surf.
252Atk Choice Band Linoone (+Atk) ExtremeSpeed in Rain vs 4HP/0Def Swanna (Neutral): 71% - 84% (210 - 247 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
252SpAtk Life Orb Swanna (Neutral) Surf in Rain vs 168HP/44SpDef Linoone (Neutral): 94% - 111% (319 - 378 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 66% chance to OHKO.
Electabuzz + Golduck fares arguably the best, only losing around 15% of the time.
Ludicolo uses Surf twice, once while Buzz switches in, while Electabuzz uses Signal Beam which doesn't KO. Golduck comes in afterwards and uses Signal Beam to kill Ludicolo. Thanks to Stealth Rock, Golduck has an approximate 15% chance to get KO'd by Hurricane taking its accuracy into account:
252SpAtk Life Orb Swanna (Neutral) Hurricane vs 4HP/0SpDef Cloud Nine Golduck (Neutral): 77% - 91% (234 - 276 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
That's probably the best of the three but it really isn't a "counter".
Also Raseri, if you think that Clefairy is ridiculous then you might want to look into Hidden Power [Electric] Vileplume as well.
If your calcs are true I'll count this. 2 points.
yep. 2 points.
Yeppers. 2 points.
Dingo covered it. 0 points
Lickitung <3. 0 points
Interesting. 1 point.
I like it. 1 point
Can't come in on Swanna. 0 points
Electabuzz + Golduck does well enough to score. So 1 point.
Bonus Points!
Endorfins gets +1 points for using Lickitung which is adorable <3
CrashinBoomBang - 8 (+2)
Django Reinhart - 7 (+2)
No Luck Involved - 5
FLCL - 5
Molk - 4
Endorfins - 3 (+2)
Zebraiken - 3
Amarillo - 3
Full2Half - 2
Tribute - 2 (+2)
TropiOUs - 1
NatGeo - 1 (+1)
The Reptile - 1
BurtonEarny - 1 (+1)
DTC - -1
Also, it's BW2 time! Regenerator cores are apparently pretty good, let's see fi you can bring this one down. Meet Double A!
Amoonguss (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Clear Smog
- Giga Drain
- Synthesis
- Sludge Bomb
Alomomola (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Impish Nature (+Def, -SpAtk)
- Wish
- Protect
- Waterfall
- Toxic
Stealth Rock is up on both sides, and no other hazards. GOGOGO
Bonus Points!
Endorfins gets +1 points for using Lickitung which is adorable <3
CrashinBoomBang - 8 (+2)
Django Reinhart - 7 (+2)
No Luck Involved - 5
FLCL - 5
Molk - 4
Endorfins - 3 (+2)
Zebraiken - 3
Amarillo - 3
Full2Half - 2
Tribute - 2 (+2)
TropiOUs - 1
NatGeo - 1 (+1)
The Reptile - 1
BurtonEarny - 1 (+1)
DTC - -1
Also, it's BW2 time! Regenerator cores are apparently pretty good, let's see fi you can bring this one down. Meet Double A!
Amoonguss (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Clear Smog
- Giga Drain
- Synthesis
- Sludge Bomb
Alomomola (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Impish Nature (+Def, -SpAtk)
- Wish
- Protect
- Waterfall
- Toxic
Stealth Rock is up on both sides, and no other hazards. GOGOGO
Golbat (F) @ Eviolite
Trait: Inner Focus
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SDef
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Brave Bird
- Taunt
- Toxic
- Roost
0 Atk Alomomola Waterfall vs 248 HP/252 Def Eviolite Golbat: 12.75% - 15.3%
7-8 hits to KO
This is the strongest attack that either of them is going to use. Taunt prevents recovery and Brave Bird / Toxic will take down Amoonguss and Alomomola.
Not really much else to say lol
- Status