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So here's an idea I had, maybe.
Dragonite (Lairon) @ leftovers / rocky helmet
Ability: Multiscale
New typ
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Def, 4 SpD
Calm nature
- Stealth Rocks
- Iron Head
- Roost
- Defog
So lairon's new stats become
90/140/170/80/80/50 and with a great defensive typing and ability is much better than skarmory (65/80/140/40/70/70) in all areas except speed.
Whimsicott (Inkay) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Topsy-Turvy
- Destiny Bond
- Foul Play / Knock Off
- Stun Spore / Encore / Toxic / Taunt / Hypnosis if real
73 / 94 / 78 / 77 / 71 / 95 stats... but those aren't really important.
AKA STABmons Sableye 5.0 or so. Unless I missed something similar earlier in the thread. Nothing too imaginative here, come in, stop sweep. Whimsicott looks to be the best choice for Inkay as it gives the most speed out of the prankster evolutions. Obviously you don't go Timid or 0 ivs if you use Knock Off.
EDIT: Haha jk no fairy secondary typing... Cottonee is fairy type too. Derp. Probably messed up my generations or something when checking the first time. I also forgot to mention the Stored Power immunity, so you can switch into something trying to spam that.
Sorry about that; I accidentally deleted all the metagames on my server when I was trying to update its code from main. I only had a month old backup so I had to manually restore several metagames, and I haven't got around to reimplementing this yet. Sorry about that.
Edit: I think I've managed to correctly reimplement it now.
I have a Magmar set which I haven't tested much (aka one battle), but it seems pretty fun considering the double contrary coverage:
Serperior (Magmar) @ Eviolite
Ability: Contrary
IVs: 252 SpA / 248 HP / 8 SpD
Nature: Modest
- Leaf Storm
- Overheat
- Giga Drain (recovery)
- (Coverage)
Here's my other contrary set:
Malamar (Growlithe) @ Eviolite / Leftovers
Ability: Contrary
IVs / Nature: (Not sure about these)
- Close Combat
- Morning Sun
- Flare Blitz
- filler
Get those defenses up and just tank everything. Maybe run Superpower for the attack boost if you need it.
I have a Magmar set which I haven't tested much (aka one battle), but it seems pretty fun considering the double contrary coverage:
Serperior (Magmar) @ Eviolite
Ability: Contrary
IVs: 252 SpA / 248 HP / 8 SpD
Nature: Modest
- Leaf Storm
- Overheat
- Giga Drain (recovery)
- (Coverage)
Here's my other contrary set:
Malamar (Growlithe) @ Eviolite / Leftovers
Ability: Contrary
IVs / Nature: (Not sure about these)
- Close Combat
- Morning Sun
- Flare Blitz
- filler
Get those defenses up and just tank everything. Maybe run Superpower for the attack boost if you need it.
most of this seems correct, but I wanted to point out that Magikarp and Feebas gain 340 BST upon evolution, not 450. that's probably just a typo though seeing as 3/4 and 4/5 are next to each other on most keyboards
otherwise, thanks; this information has been compiled before but it never hurts to see it posted again
My current version of the code enforces move compatibility on the prevo for instance if you cross evolve Defog Gligar then you can't use your cross evolution's hidden ability. It's just a consequence of the way I'm calling the validator, so if anyone thinks it should be changed I'll have a go at rewriting it at some point. (The validator would be even simpler if you could have any of the evo's level-up moves, not just two, but I guess that's unwanted. Interestingly it would disallow you from getting Glare from Serperior or Sticky Web from Masquerain, as they can't learn it themselves.)
Well, even the spreadheet on page 8 tried to evolve Doublade into Aegislash-Blade, but my problem was that spreadsheet's columns were too narrow for me to see that it was Darmanitan-Zen.
most of this seems correct, but I wanted to point out that Magikarp and Feebas gain 340 BST upon evolution, not 450. that's probably just a typo though seeing as 3/4 and 4/5 are next to each other on most keyboards
Evil lite isn't banned- rather it has no effect, regardless of stats listed in battle. The tooltip doesn't know that the metagames is coded to ignore eviolite, and so displays the stat changes despite the Pokemon not actually being effected by eviolite. Angry2 next time "eviolite doesn't effect cross evolved Pokemon" rather than "eviolite is banned", unless you intend for me to, say, be incapable of running vanilla chansey.
Evil lite isn't banned- rather it has no effect, regardless of stats listed in battle. The tooltip doesn't know that the metagames is coded to ignore eviolite, and so displays the stat changes despite the Pokemon not actually being effected by eviolite.
The latter is true. The former is supposed to be true, but then again I rewrote Quite Quiet's original code so it may have been taking effect when it should not have. Sorry about that.
IMO there should be two metas: one with a 600 or 620 (for a bit of leniency) BST Cap (with the exception of Slaking, potentially) and bans on cross-evoing into Blaziken, Greninja, SHEDINJA or Aegislash as well as the Huge/Pure Power restriction but no other cross-evolution bans, and a no BST limit one with Ubers allowed. You know, so we actually have BALANCE, and so certain Pokemon that were banned before (Gyarados, Archen, Scyther...) can be freed when they're using something actually reasonable.
Did people just ignore this because it was on the end of a page?
Just for a tiny bit of additional pointless trivia, the weakest cross-evolver, Seedot, and the weakest cross-evolution, Scizor, are incompatible. Just in case you were interested.
IMO there should be two metas: one with a 600 or 620 (for a bit of leniency) BST Cap (with the exception of Slaking, potentially) and bans on cross-evoing into Blaziken, Greninja, SHEDINJA or Aegislash as well as the Huge/Pure Power restriction but no other cross-evolution bans, and a no BST limit one with Ubers allowed. You know, so we actually have BALANCE, and so certain Pokemon that were banned before (Gyarados, Archen, Scyther...) can be freed when they're using something actually reasonable.
Did people just ignore this because it was on the end of a page?
Just for a tiny bit of additional pointless trivia, the weakest cross-evolver, Seedot, and the weakest cross-evolution, Scizor, are incompatible. Just in case you were interested.
First:- We do not have to really respond into a comment, Players and managers may have seen it, but we aren't supposed to reply to everything, only to what we think could work, or what we think deserves a comment..
Second:- We did not even ignore you, sometime earlier, I read your comment and made a discussion about whether we shall unban uber or have a BST Cap, but people were more excited in discussion about possible sets and milotic ban
Third:- From what point of view is Seedot the weakest? Sunkern is weaker if what you meant is that it is a Low-BST pokemon, and if you meant lowest BST gain, Then look at Pory2-->Pory-z, 20 whole BST gain
First:- We do not have to really respond into a comment, Players and managers may have seen it, but we aren't supposed to reply to everything, only to what we think could work, or what we think deserves a comment..
Second:- We did not even ignore you, sometime earlier, I read your comment and made a discussion about whether we shall unban uber or have a BST Cap, but people were more excited in discussion about possible sets and milotic ban
Third:- From what point of view is Seedot the weakest? Sunkern is weaker if what you meant is that it is a Low-BST pokemon, and if you meant lowest BST gain, Then look at Pory2-->Pory-z, 20 whole BST gain
Sunflora (Houndour) @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 36 Atk / 244 SpA / 228 Spe
Rash Nature
- Fire Blast
- Sucker Punch / Dark Pulse
- Solar Beam / Earth Power
- Growth / Destiny Bond
Been looking into sun, this seems like a fun mixed sweeper. Speed is to beat noivern base 85s like taillow and staryu in sun, not really sure what the relevant benchmarks are. Scarfers are an issue as are mach punch users, but eh.
Whimsicott (Cranidos) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock
- Head Smash
- Memento
Most of the roles of the Pokémon on my team should be fairly self-evident from the sets that I'm using, but I'll elaborate a bit nonetheless:
Munchlax > Hitmonlee is the star of the team, simply put. Think of it as a hellish hybrid of Belly Drum Azumarill and Slurpuff from standard play; it sports a gargantuan 170 base Attack stat which outpowers Azumarill's even while running a positive-Speed nature, as well as boasting 150/160 special bulk which allows Munchlax to use weaker special attackers as easy setup bait even without investment and 150/58 physical bulk which, while not amazing by any means, is still relatively solid for what Munchlax tries to do. If that isn't enough, it also has Unburden which doubles its modest Speed stat to the point that it's essentially able to outspeed any opposing unboosted Pokémon (even in Cross Evolution where the speed tiers are, frankly, fucked). Return + Close Combat + Knock Off is perfect three-move coverage if I'm correct, so it's not often that Munchlax doesn't 6-0 teams that don't carry an Unaware or Prankster Topsy-Turvy/Haze if it gets a chance to set up.
Honedge > Hitmontop is a bulkier approach to a set-up sweeper than Munchlax. It makes use of its decent 60/160/112 bulk and amazing typing in order to set up as many Swords Dances as possible, and then blows holes in the opposing team using its powerful (thanks to Technician) and diverse priority moves. Honedge is mostly just a backup to Munchlax in all honesty, but it can be more useful against teams with a plethora of physical attackers because of its excellent physical bulk and typing. It also helps its case that the moves it's using have priority because an uninvested base 63 Speed stat isn't anything to boast about.
Magmar > Gallade is another Belly Drum sweeper, and in that sense it's more of a backup to Munchlax than Honedge is. Magmar boasts more immediate Speed than Munchlax which means it can threaten foes out more easily before it's set up, but at the cost of a significant portion of Munchlax's bulk which is one of the things that makes Munchlax so good. That said, it doesn't have no advantages: It's able to deal with Prankster Topsy-Turvy and priority in general (except from Ghost-types, rip) much more easily than Munchlax thanks to carrying Mach Punch, and it's also able to restore most of its HP in a pinch thanks to Drain Punch. It's decent, but most of the time you'd want to try to set up with Munchlax rather than this.
Electabuzz > Vivillon is the more offensively-oriented of my two Quiver Dancers. Fairly standard for Electabuzz, but I decided to forgo Sleep Powder on this set in exchange for extra STAB in Hurricane to hit Grasses and a Focus Sash to prevent from being OHKO'd by random physical moves. Essentially, what you're going to try to do with this set is to nab a Quiver Dance boost using either the Focus Sash or a forced switch and then make use of Electabuzz's high-powered coverage to blow through an opponent's team as much as possible in preparation for one of my other set-up sweepers. Again, fairly standard (if Cross Evolution even has any standards, it looks something like this).
Tangela > Volcarona is the bulkier of my two Quiver Dancers. There's been a lot of discussion on Tangela in this thread, and for good reason, but I wanted to try my hand with offensive Tangela instead, and this is what I came up with. Essentially, Sleep Powder something that Tangela can take a hit from and then Quiver Dance; Tangela after evolving into Volcarona boasts an immense 185 Special Attack stat and decent 100 Speed, so you should have no problem hitting the opponent's team hard once you've set up presuming that Fire- and Dragon-types (Tangela can probably still break through the specially frailer ones) are taken care of. Giga Drain is chosen as the STAB for extra sustainability; Fiery Dance is included for solid, accurate coverage and to allow Tangela to nab more Special Attack boosts while attacking.
Cranidos > Whimsicott is a fairly straightforward suicide lead. Taunt the opponent's lead if it might have hazards, then set up Rocks and make way for one of the other Pokémon using either Head Smash or Memento (Head Smash is rather inaccurate so only use it against foes with Contrary or that otherwise benefit from Memento). Prankster in combination with Focus Sash allows Cranidos to ensure that it can Taunt the opponent and get Rocks up unless facing another Prankster or a Magic Bounce user (or a user of another priority move like Mach Punch or Bullet Punch, Cranidos is weak to a lot of priority) even through its base 108 Speed, which is mediocre for Cross Evolution's high standards.
Whimsicott (Cranidos) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock
- Head Smash
- Memento
Most of the roles of the Pokémon on my team should be fairly self-evident from the sets that I'm using, but I'll elaborate a bit nonetheless:
Munchlax > Hitmonlee is the star of the team, simply put. Think of it as a hellish hybrid of Belly Drum Azumarill and Slurpuff from standard play; it sports a gargantuan 170 base Attack stat which outpowers Azumarill's even while running a positive-Speed nature, as well as boasting 150/160 special bulk which allows Munchlax to use weaker special attackers as easy setup bait even without investment and 150/58 physical bulk which, while not amazing by any means, is still relatively solid for what Munchlax tries to do. If that isn't enough, it also has Unburden which doubles its modest Speed stat to the point that it's essentially able to outspeed any opposing unboosted Pokémon (even in Cross Evolution where the speed tiers are, frankly, fucked). Return + Close Combat + Knock Off is perfect three-move coverage if I'm correct, so it's not often that Munchlax doesn't 6-0 teams that don't carry an Unaware or Prankster Topsy-Turvy/Haze if it gets a chance to set up.
Honedge > Hitmontop is a bulkier approach to a set-up sweeper than Munchlax. It makes use of its decent 60/160/112 bulk and amazing typing in order to set up as many Swords Dances as possible, and then blows holes in the opposing team using its powerful (thanks to Technician) and diverse priority moves. Honedge is mostly just a backup to Munchlax in all honesty, but it can be more useful against teams with a plethora of physical attackers because of its excellent physical bulk and typing. It also helps its case that the moves it's using have priority because an uninvested base 63 Speed stat isn't anything to boast about.
Magmar > Gallade is another Belly Drum sweeper, and in that sense it's more of a backup to Munchlax than Honedge is. Magmar boasts more immediate Speed than Munchlax which means it can threaten foes out more easily before it's set up, but at the cost of a significant portion of Munchlax's bulk which is one of the things that makes Munchlax so good. That said, it doesn't have no advantages: It's able to deal with Prankster Topsy-Turvy and priority in general (except from Ghost-types, rip) much more easily than Munchlax thanks to carrying Mach Punch, and it's also able to restore most of its HP in a pinch thanks to Drain Punch. It's decent, but most of the time you'd want to try to set up with Munchlax rather than this.
Electabuzz > Vivillon is the more offensively-oriented of my two Quiver Dancers. Fairly standard for Electabuzz, but I decided to forgo Sleep Powder on this set in exchange for extra STAB in Hurricane to hit Grasses and a Focus Sash to prevent from being OHKO'd by random physical moves. Essentially, what you're going to try to do with this set is to nab a Quiver Dance boost using either the Focus Sash or a forced switch and then make use of Electabuzz's high-powered coverage to blow through an opponent's team as much as possible in preparation for one of my other set-up sweepers. Again, fairly standard (if Cross Evolution even has any standards, it looks something like this).
Tangela > Volcarona is the bulkier of my two Quiver Dancers. There's been a lot of discussion on Tangela in this thread, and for good reason, but I wanted to try my hand with offensive Tangela instead, and this is what I came up with. Essentially, Sleep Powder something that Tangela can take a hit from and then Quiver Dance; Tangela after evolving into Volcarona boasts an immense 185 Special Attack stat and decent 100 Speed, so you should have no problem hitting the opponent's team hard once you've set up presuming that Fire- and Dragon-types (Tangela can probably still break through the specially frailer ones) are taken care of. Giga Drain is chosen as the STAB for extra sustainability; Fiery Dance is included for solid, accurate coverage and to allow Tangela to nab more Special Attack boosts while attacking.
Cranidos > Whimsicott is a fairly straightforward suicide lead. Taunt the opponent's lead if it might have hazards, then set up Rocks and make way for one of the other Pokémon using either Head Smash or Memento (Head Smash is rather inaccurate so only use it against foes with Contrary or that otherwise benefit from Memento). Prankster in combination with Focus Sash allows Cranidos to ensure that it can Taunt the opponent and get Rocks up unless facing another Prankster or a Magic Bounce user (or a user of another priority move like Mach Punch or Bullet Punch, Cranidos is weak to a lot of priority) even through its base 108 Speed, which is mediocre for Cross Evolution's high standards.
Thank you for your contribution! I've added it to a new sample teams section on the second post. I'll add there teams posted here with a description and a importable, that are at the very least decent.
I'll post one of my teams as well:
Hitmonlee (Ponyta) @ Life Orb
Ability: Reckless
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- High Jump Kick
- Flare Blitz
- Knock Off
- Wild Charge
Hariyama (Gligar) @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Stealth Rock
- Roost
- Earthquake
- U-turn
Nidoking (Porygon2) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Tri Attack
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Earth Power
Each member explained: Ponyta -> Hitmonlee has already been mentioned in this thread, with 65/170/73/65/140/142 base stats and high-powered, Reckless-boosted moves it's an extremely powerful wallbreaker, capable of OHKOing almost any offensive Pokémon and at worst 2HKOing most defensive ones with one of its coverage moves. On the other side of things, it is extremely easy to wear down thanks to a Stealth Rock weakness, Life Orb, recoil damage and horrible bulk, which means it won't be able to sweep teams. It also falls to priority. On other teams, Will-O-Wisp could be an option over either Knock Off or Wild Charge. This team has enough burn inducers, however. Kadabra -> Buttefree is the win condition. In my opinion, Sleep Powder + QD is done better by Butterfree cross-evolutions than Vivillon's, at least if you don't have room for inheriting Hurricane. With only two slots left, usually STAB + coverage, I find Tinted Lens more valuable than an accurate Sleep Powder. Missing Sleep Powder sucks tho, as Kadabra has even worse bulk than Ponyta x Hitmonlee, which means that Kadabra is now dead if Sash is broken. Psyshock over Psychic to have an easier time against special walls. It might look pretty powerful, but I found it unable to break dedicated walls without a boost. You could also try a SubQD set with Psyshock and Hurricane and Vivillon as the donor, but I think the current set is better. Use Leftovers in that case. Finneon -> Milotic is a favorite of mine. Having great special bulk, Marvel Scale and Scald, it can prove pretty difficult to break through, all while supporting the team with slow U-turns and Defog. However, I've found some Pokémon (such as Mantyke x Sylveon) coming close to the 2HKO with special attacks (and obviously Contrary users will steamroll you), so a crit or losing Leftovers + hazards might lead to Finneon falling. This Finneon also has a pretty decent Special Attack meaning it can 2HKO Scald-weak Pokémon, but otherwise it'll be praying for the burn, as it is still too weak to break anything by itself. Pumpkaboo -> Chansey completes a FWG core with Ponyta and Finneon. Otherwise it's just a great wall that can take on most physical attackers (notably being immune to Superpower from Contrary Pokémon) and decently powerful special attackers (immunity to Sleep Powder is nice for QD shenaningans lacking Hurricane). The set is pretty customizable, in this team you could try Aromatherapy/Heal Bell over Wish, but Foul Play and Leech Seed are options too. Natural Cure lets Pumpkaboo absorb status. Gligar -> Hariyama is the Stealth Rocker of choice. It is quite bulky and hits quite hard (for an uninvested Pokémon anyway) with STAB Earthquake. It also forms a core of slow U-turns with Finneon. Moves are self explanatory, nothing is inherited from Hariyama. Thick Fat is a great asset giving Gligar a Fire resistance and reducing its heavy Ice weakness. Early game put rocks down and then use Gligar to pivot and as a backup wall. I've tried Gligar x Noivern in this slot for a super-fast Stealth Rock, and it might work with Rapid Spin instead of Defog (be sure of packing Taunt in this set). Another option is a more offensive Gligar x Hariyama with max Attack and Adamant/Brave. Porygon2 -> Nidoking is the special wallbreaker of the team. I'm still testing this slot but for now Porygon2 looks quite convincing. Set is nothing creative, dual STABs + BoltBeam for maximum coverage and all of them are boosted by the LO + Sheer Force combo, allowing Porygon2 to switch attacks and wallbreak more easily through sheer coverage (unintended pun). Bulky spread because Porygon2 is slow. I've tried Specs Porygon x Lucario and Specs Murkrow x Lucario, and they were both quite deceiving, lacking power and in the Porygon's case, being too slow and falling prey to Fighting attacks (and Hitmonlee, Gallade and Breloom are common donors).
Also, some things I've noticed while battling:
Carrying a sleep absorber is nice to avoid being wrecked by Sleep Powder + QD. However, Grass-types immune to Sleep Powder are weak to Hurricane and Magmar x Vivillon/Butterfree, so they are quite difficult to stop. Checking them offensively is much easier, as most of them have bad bulk and fall to priority/faster attacks.
Even though there are quite a few ridiculous walls on the meta, even them can fall to set-up / even more ridiculous wallbreakers, so together with the above point I've found full stall quite difficult to build (probably not unviable though).
