Dexit discussion thread

Out of curiosity, how has the full datamine impacted people's thoughts on Dexit?

For me, though I only mildly minded in the first place, knowing we're getting six old starter lines back and quite a few popular legendaries has made me feel better about it. Especially since I like Ubers and this selection is definitely strong enough for a healthy Ubers meta to exist (we have 10 previous gen ubers and four more that are practically guaranteed to be put there) while excluding most of the things that made both Ubers and OU frustrating last generation.

I don't like that Pursuit is gone, and I would have liked a flat 100 power/100 accuracy normal move to replace the annoying mechanics of Frustration and Return, but I'm glad they ditched Hidden Power.
Depends on what datamining you are referring to.
If you refer to the first one, the "400ish Regional Pokedex" one, it was one of the reasons that pushed me towards no purchase.
To be honest, I was skeptical before too (let's say 50-50), but that one put a giant dent to my expectation and made me even more suspicious. I am very confident that by not disclosing any clue about the fact that more than 50% of older mons were going to be cut they were actively trying to trick us into thinking it would have been a 600, 650ish dex and also attempting to prompt sales before the fire got to (and through) the roof.
If you're referring to the extra 30ish starters and legendaries added, it changes nothing in the grand scheme of things: more than 50% of mons will still be unavailable. The contextual erase of some unique moves did not help either.
Don't mind me, I guess that every extra mon is good, but I also think that if you had an opinion like mine before the second datamine, it's a drop in the ocean. For someone more on the fence, I guess it could maybe swing the balance a little bit.
 
A small thread, but thought it was worth zharing since i dont think anybody brought up thenyearly crunch angle yet. We talked about how they could/couldnt delay things but not quite the yearly quota itself
I don't doubt that but at a certain point as a consumer enough is enough. "Poor overworked Gamefreak" doesn't excuse a crappy game.

I'm hoping eventually Gamefreak allows itself to be bought out by Nintendo so they can have access to some of that merchandise money and actually fund itself up to the level of quality we see in other Nintendo franchises.
 
I don't doubt that but at a certain point as a consumer enough is enough. "Poor overworked Gamefreak" doesn't excuse a crappy game.

I'm hoping eventually Gamefreak allows itself to be bought out by Nintendo so they can have access to some of that merchandise money and actually fund itself up to the level of quality we see in other Nintendo franchises.
I dunno how to feel about that sentiment. Im not sure if they could work on their smaller stuff like Harnoknight or TEMBO THE BADASS ELEPHANT if they just became Pokemon the Company.
 
A small thread, but thought it was worth zharing since i dont think anybody brought up thenyearly crunch angle yet. We talked about how they could/couldnt delay things but not quite the yearly quota itself
You haven't been paying attention have you?
Pretty much everyone has been denouncing the yearly schedule as bad for everyone, it's one of the pillars of the "Gamefreak is greedy" argument because it's the same thing that Ubisoft did with Assassin's Creed, yearly releases which lower the quality of the games, upset their fans and eventually lead to significantly reduced sales
greed


Man what is it with people defending a product on emotional attachments of all things?
 
Last edited:

earl

(EVIOLITE COMPATIBLE)
is a Community Contributor
I don’t see how that thread at all defends the product itself? The only difference is that they’re blaming the poor product on the time crunch compared to lazy/bad coders, “blame the higher ups and shareholders, not the (likely overworked) employees”. Follow the money people

also nowhere did the thread encourage buying the product, in fact it blamed us, the consumers, for the yearly release cycle. Once again, follow the money
 
I don’t see how that thread at all defends the product itself? The only difference is that they’re blaming the poor product on the time crunch compared to lazy/bad coders, “blame the higher ups and shareholders, not the (likely overworked) employees”. Follow the money people

also nowhere did the thread encourage buying the product, in fact it blamed us, the consumers, for the yearly release cycle. Once again, follow the money
I know. I was talking about the ThankGamefreak phenomenon
 
This is extremely ironic to me considering thats the main reason people have been attacking GF. Hence, the bringbacknationaldex apam and the responding FuckyouGamefreak tag

This whole controversy is fueld by emotional attachments
It's almost as if Gamefreak had spent over 20 years trying to get people invested in their pokemon for the first one
or trying to sell them an inferior product for the second one

also while one can discuss how healthy is to get attached to fictional creatures, getting attached to a company is definitely unhealthy
fictional creatures cannot take advantage of you because you "love" them since they're fictional
companies on the other hand will
 
Gamefreak owns 33% of TPCI.They aren't a small indie studio at the mercy of an uncaring boss,they are the boss.
The people making the game are the boss of GameFreak making the decision about as much as the kid flipping your burger is the boss of Mcdonald's
 
Well this is from 5 years ago, but here's a review from Glassdoor about working at GF: https://www.glassdoor.com/Overview/Working-at-Game-Freak-EI_IE892003.11,21.htm

Has a 1-Star and is called a miserable place to work.
I have been working at Game Freak as a contractor (More than a year)

Pros
Millions of users love our products. Work is interesting. Plenty of challenges build character. Company makes a profit. Job seems secure.
Cons
Executives and directors are too eager to take credit and design direction. No room for younger employees to grow, set direction. Too much overtime. Bad workplace culture and environment. Lots of jerks. Not all projects are engaging. Bad direction. Too many contract workers. Salary is very poor.
Advice to Management
Invest in developing young talent for game design.

Based on the quality of the games and the PR, I wouldn't be surprised if this review had some truth to it. Would also explain why morale is low, these employees who are being overworked are also having their product boycotted, their only reason for working. Ouch.
 
Long story short: it’s now officially official that they have reused the old 3DS models and lied about it to try and justify Dexit.
Didn't you say that you were leaving on Monday?

Frosmoth has base 65 speed. Pelipper is the only Drizzle user in the entire Dex. Appletun and Flapple got trash stats (485 total, which is WORSE THAN ORBEETLE). Everything is slow AF. Even Grimmsnarl is only base 510. Thievul might be the worst pokemon in several generations stat-wise. Though Dubwool gives it a run for its money.

I'm out.

See you in 2021.
 
Long story short: it’s now officially official that they have reused the old 3DS models and lied about it to try and justify Dexit.
Yeah about that...

I remember when that article first came out there was mutterings of how it might be mistranslated. So i went to the article itself and found this:

Omori We had a lot of discussion with Masuda about this time. Even at the time of “ Pocket Monster Sun Moon ”, it was actually quite difficult (to be able to bring all Pokemon), but the hardware became the Nintendo Switch and the model was rebuilt from the beginning I have to make some choice. However, if you can play "Pocket Monster Sword Shield", you will understand that even if there are restrictions on the Pokémon that you can bring, the content of the play will be quite voluminous.
The model...as in the model for the game. Not the individual pokemon models at all! Although, surely some more fluent person could have said SOMETHING by now it it was the case... Can anyone fact check this?

EDIT: It appears the original report that the mods weren't made from scratch came from Polygon...which now makes very suspicious as they aren't the most uhh quality controlled outlet

https://www.polygon.com/pokemon/201...-limited-game-freak-statement-nintendo-switch
 
Last edited:

earl

(EVIOLITE COMPATIBLE)
is a Community Contributor
Yeah about that...

I remember when that article first came out there was mutterings of how it might be mistranslated. So i went to the article itself and found this:



The model...as in the model for the game. Not the individual pokemon models at all! Although, surely some more fluent person could have said SOMETHING by now it it was the case... Can anyone fact check this?

EDIT: It appears the original report that the mods weren't made from scratch came from Polygon...which now makes very suspicious as they aren't the most uhh quality controlled outlet

https://www.polygon.com/pokemon/201...-limited-game-freak-statement-nintendo-switch
Was that just a google translate? Model and Models are effectively the same word in Japanese due to there being no plural distinction. I’ve see the back and forth and the polygon synopsis, at least of the official English translation, is accurate
 
Was that just a google translate? Model and Models are effectively the same word in Japanese due to there being no plural distinction. I’ve see the back and forth and the polygon synopsis, at least of the official English translation, is accurate
Hmm...in either case, theirs some misinformation at play here, whether it be polygon or the devs. Im gonna wait and see what happens...

EDIT: well, youtubers are already on the prowl and twitter has lit up again, its gonna be a messy few days...
 
Last edited:
A small thread, but thought it was worth zharing since i dont think anybody brought up thenyearly crunch angle yet. We talked about how they could/couldnt delay things but not quite the yearly quota itself
Let me be clear that I am in no place nor have any intention to blame the x number of developers sitting at their desks at peak stress noon to dusk to deliver the game on time and then have to hear people like me: “Man, that’s not nearly enough”.
No one in his right mind would blame anyone with no decision making power, but I guess by not disclaiming it some of us could be considered as the ones that put some of this on them by association. That’s not remotely the case.

The higher-ups, the money people if you will, have decided that a yearly release schedule is the best course to go for their bottom line (and that’s normal behavior or corporations would cease to exist), and the lenient attitude of the consumer base, built on an incredible worldwide community that has stood with Pokemon despite a bumpy road here and there, as so far allowed them to do so. This business case (it’s what it has turned into for me, I will not be playing but at least it would be a good case history for my job) is looking everyday more and more similar, very eerily, to the transaction between Destiny 1 and Destiny 2. It’s like they went “let’s look at the case in the industry with: the most egregious breach of trust, disregard of loyal fanbase, and continuous lies when in damage control” and tried to beat them (in a bad way).

Someone mentioned Assassin’s Creed getting greedy with the yearly releases: after people caught up with what they were doing, the franchise as we knew it had been damaged, and was rebooted almost completely, effectively changing genre.

To give my stance for developers some context, I have been fortunate enough to be on a tv set recording a program (from the outside, obviously), and one staff member who had experience in the gaming industry told me how their schedule is remarkably similar. We woke up at a decent time, but worked non-stop from 8 AM to roughly 10 PM (and we were the fortunate ones, some staff had to film night takes – it was one of those cooking competitions a là Bake Off, mind you). Nothing can be delayed, because deadlines to air times are set, famous guests have to leave, even the stupidest take (like pouring a cup of coffee) needed to be perfect and even the slightest change of weather could jeopardize a day of takes. It’s like getting a tattoo: 3 seconds on, 3 seconds off, 3 seconds on, 3 seconds of, and so on. It was excruciating. Every time you watch a pre-recorded program, know that every half-sentence is taken and thoroughly analyzed like 5 times, and then put together.

After a month or two with such 14-hours, no off days, they can be laid off for a couple of weeks to rest for the next project. Rinse, repeat.
As it was explained to me, in game development, once the release date turns official, things turn similarly hectic, just on different premises: release date needs to be met no matter what when made official, you can be required to work extra shifts with short to no notice if anything is awry, and it’s constant “do as much as you can today” because you never know when testing might discover something’s off. You basically have to constantly be ahead of schedule, with no security about how things may turn out tomorrow. It’s an incredibly stressful environment, and a discussion about working conditions when needing to meet time to market and customer standards is certainly one worth having.

That out of the chest to give some context, I am honestly going to say that it does not excuse an inferior product. It was their decision to make everything yearly, none of us asked for a new installment every November, and I am sure (or at least hope) that they considered what that would mean for working conditions. If they didn’t, we have to question the BoD planning skills, not our own judgment. Not going into the technicality of model importation or not because I don't know enough about it, but the PR about it has been laughable at best, as stated countless times.
It's almost as if Gamefreak had spent over 20 years trying to get people invested in their pokemon for the first one
or trying to sell them an inferior product for the second one

also while one can discuss how healthy is to get attached to fictional creatures, getting attached to a company is definitely unhealthy
fictional creatures cannot take advantage of you because you "love" them since they're fictional
companies on the other hand will
Thanks for bringing this to the conversation. Of course it’s emotional attachment, for two reasons.

First, it is natural in human nature, when siding on an argument, to exaggerate your own position (to the point of no return when reaching strawman’s argument) to try proving why you feel you’re right. I'm sure I am 100% guilty of it in the Dexit argument.

Secondly and more importantly, Pokemon (or any game you stick with, actually), is more than a product. When you spend so much time with a franchise, and put in hundreds or thousands of hours into it, it becomes an hobby, an aspect of your life you allocate much of your free time to. Since it’s not something in your full control like going to the gym, which depends solely on your commitment, you always run the risk of having your hobby taken from you because of corporate decisions, but you never know until it hits you.

There’s an example that’s quite fitting: the Coca Cola vs Pepsi business war (credit to Skill Up on Youtube for drawing this comparison first in gaming during his Destiny 2 review). Coca Cola was the unquestioned market leader for ages, and had built a relationship with customers that went beyond the product. Mid 80s, Pepsi, confident their product had a better taste, started doing blind tests (you sit in front of two glasses without knowing what’s Coca and what’s Pepsi), and those blind tests revealed that Pepsi was better. They marketed it by filming blind tests and people's reactions, and were quickly gaining ground on Coca Cola, who responded with studying and releasing the New Coke, a new formula that focus groups tasted and deemed better than Pepsi, and contextually announced ceasing the production of the old formula. The problem was that the product was so sweet that it could not be consumed at length without leaving (literally) a bad taste in your mouth: the new flavor was perfect for focus groups testing with small sips, terrible for large scale consumption.

The results were utterly catastrophic, and not only for that. Coca Cola had taken away a product that had meant so much for the consumer that they actually related to it, for what was a de facto worse product. To cut it short, Coca Cola had to retract everything to the old formula merely 78 days after announcing the New Coke.
What ties it to our case is that Coca Cola customer service phone lines started receiving calls en masse, and hired psychiatrists to analyze such backlash. What they concluded was that consumers were talking about losing the original coke like they were grieving the loss of a friend or a relative.

Simply put, people are fearing that their hobby is going to be taken away and have no power to keep it, a game that helped somebody navigate through rough waters in life might be gone, and have no power nor voice (outside of their wallets, not that powerful when you’re alone browsing your phone looking at sales projected in the millions) to get it back and, worse, they have no guarantees it will ever come back.

Of course you can get emotionally attached to it – this sometimes indeed derails the conversation – but the majority that I’ve seen has not turned into vitriol toxicity. It’s not just a game for many people, myself included. We're not taking a stand against the content but against who decided what content we're going to get.
Hope all of the above helps someone on the other side of the debate to understand us.
 
Last edited:
I'm not buying the workers did nothing wrong narrative because every interview Ohmori makes sure he says something stupid like we can't have a battle factory because no one plays after the elite 4 or when he said that there can not be difficulty settings because kids would rather play mobile games instead.

He doesn't sound like a person who wanted to do things right but shareholders told him he couldn't.

I am still hyped and i will buy the game because competitive looks great with the new mons and i like the community, but man so many things other than that look messed up.
 
I'm not buying the workers did nothing wrong narrative because every interview Ohmori makes sure he says something stupid like we can't have a battle factory because no one plays after the elite 4 or when he said that there can not be difficulty settings because kids would rather play mobile games instead.

He doesn't sound like a person who wanted to do things right but shareholders told him he couldn't.

I am still hyped and i will buy the game because competitive looks great with the new mons and i like the community, but man so many things other than that look messed up.
I was talking more about the people doing the day to day stuff, designers, coders etc... which is either hard or an exercise in futility to attribute blame to because, other than company leaks, we know too little about how they specifically worked on SwSh and how much input they're allowed to present (and to how much consideration is given). Everything on that front would be pure speculation.
You're 100% about Ohmori, but he's an higher-up, and to those people we are giving no leeway to.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 1)

Top