The "we plan to keep doing this for future games" interview from yesterday pretty strongly implied that Home would only be storage and trading. We also know that "gameplay elements" were only being "considered" as of July, so it's unlikely that they're in development even if they decided "yes".
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Dexit discussion thread
- Thread starter Codraroll
- Start date
So was it his personal account or his official Nintendo account?
Either way Count Bleck has reason to be disappointed because they are criticising and not dictating.
Last edited:
Even personal accounts when public aren't to be used lightly when you're a person of responsibility.
Unfortunately, fame and public image come with a price, and that price being that everyone will be ready to criticize every move you do.
If you're a famous person, you're better not do anything disgraceful with your personal account. Actors, politicians, company CEOs, sports players and whatnot have always been accountable for what they do with their personal accounts, and being attacked publically or even having job repercussions for a bad tweet isn't exactly something new. (And if you think it is, I'm afraid you lived under a rock for too long)
Was browsing the thread to catch up over the weekend posts, and I love how the two posts above ironically tie together.
I have watched the last few days of development because I was on the fence as well but that no-explanation gave me the last straw to decide against purchasing (for the foreseeable time being, at least). Warning: long rant-but-actually-not-a-rant incoming.
As I said multiple times, there is little to no justification for Dexit that does not imply "convenient yearly cash grab". The little-to-nonexistant QoL changes do not justify how bare-boned the game looks (I know it's always been like that, more on this later) and the constant uncertainty we have to put up with. The ironic implication is that, actually, those QoL changes would actually be best tailored for retro-compatible mons. Have an old Blastoise that represents your first iteration with Pokemon? Now you can finally get those coveted Aura Sphere, Water Sprout cool moves and Hyper train it to be the beast you've always dreamed having! Did you go Legends galore in ORAS and USUM, and now you can play around with natures mints to have different, perfect sets for your Physical and/or Special Entei, Defensive and Offensive Heatran, etc...
Without such interactions, the 3 major QoL improvements that come to my mind as of now (Nature Mints, direct Egg Moves transfer, up-to-252 evs supplements) are just convenience, not a game-changer. They will make life easier, but features to achieve best nature, best egg moves, best training for in-region mons were already there, it just takes longer. The only actionable implication is that now you can actively breed perfect baby pokemon with convoluted egg moves, i.e. Volt Tackle Pichu, Extrasensory Budew, etc... (don't even remember if Budew is in the game lol), and then nature-mint them: that's convenient, but it has little-to-no relevance, once again.
The same-old-game formula, in my opinion, would have worked provided previous conditions, i.e. only handheld, a distinct niche, and smaller competition. When you go to Switch with a 60€ pricetag, you're competing with triple A titles and a much broader spectrum of games. You're competing with The Witcher and Warframe ports, you're being compared to BoTW and you will be compared (God forbid, actually not, it's just a brainstormed example) to things like Cyberpunk. I.e.: this should be your most ambitious project, your masterpiece, the gold standard for all pokemon games to come. It could (and should) make a statement about "we're coming to home consolles as well, with better than ever software and hardware, you'd better watch this!". Instead we get what most loyal fans are deeming the least ambitious, most "let's play safe please", bare-boned product of the series, with the worst ever PR to boot.
Let me elaborate: the Ohmori statement is just the last nail in the coffin of a long series of actions that scream "we are keeping you in the dark, please buy the game out of enthusiasm without knowing what features are in, and what's coming next". First, you announce no retro-content compatibility during a live event that literally sounded like "Psst... keep it quiet, but we're cutting the Dex".
With such a decision, I think that even Dexit supporters can concur on the premise that such a decision should have been straightforward and transparent. For most people, what makes Pokemon attractive is... well, the Pokemon, the huge roster and their loved ones. I'm not saying that they should have released the exact leave/remain roster (no pun intended), but I am strongly confident that they should have disclosed a rough estimate about how many old mons would have been in the games. Without leaks, we would have never known how many of them are being cut, and it really, really looks like blind faith (and blind purchases) is being asked of customers. "Let's not tell exactly how big of an (already huge) deal this is, and hope sales go well before people catch up".
And, to boot, the only tool for compatibility, HOME, is up in the air and just worsen the environment.
And that was absolutely fine! We understand focusing on the regional Dex, giving access to animations, dex entries and such only to the Regional Dex mons: it was a decent trade off that has been proven to work well, more or less. This statement, unless retracted, actively makes SM and USUM the games with the largest roster ever, unless you will make a game with a 700+ old-mon regional Dex plus 120 new mons (very convoluted and unlikely). Thanks for clarifying that I should stay with 3DS and play USUM for the next 10 years. I'm sorry, but I'm not putting my extensive collection in a cloud feature that could potentially kill retro compatibility arbitrarily, and wait for my hard achieved mons to be available whenever you feel like it fits the region because reasons.
If new gameplay features are what they are (Dinamax and Wild areas, really?), it is not understandable. It's downright pathetic. The manpower to animate? You know you've still got mons that use Double Kick as a simulation of hopping over blazing charcoal in 2019 on Switch, right? There is no disruptive animation improvements that would justify this in Sw/Sh.
This is not a compromise, it's a request to have blind faith and turn a blind eye.
Retro-compatibility is trimmed by Dexit. Nothing has been clarified about how HOME will work, and it's months away and after release. And now it has been discovered that it's actually like bank, but without its greatest perk. I'm so thrilled, thanks! And thanks for reminding me that I could only meet regional mons in the region (you don't say?), and then transfer others. It's like adding insult to injury and they seem so unaware it could be funny, were we not so emotionally attached to the franchise.
Final remark: do not encourage me to collect everything in HOME so that I "might" be able to go out with them in the future. They're staying in USUM, where I myself can decide to pick them up whenever I feel like and use them. It's like you're actively asking for a ransom to abduct my mons and give them an air hour from time to time. That's the only analogy I can think of.
I have been really tempted because I'm a Pokemon sucker, but I've decided against buying. I will still follow how this will unfold closely given that I follow the gaming industry and I could actually learn something useful for my IRL job.
I'm 29, I travel a lot for work (the Switch is the perfect consolle to use for people like me that spend a lot of time in airports). I've been playing since 1999 (or 98? Can't remember, it's been so long). Congratulations, you've achieved what puberty, university, friend pranks, a corporate job and my fiancée never could.
You've cured me of my Pokemon addiction.
Last edited:
So its just been confirmed that in addition to Dexit we now have Movexit, with key moves such as Return/Frustration, Hidden power, refresh and pursuit being gone. This pretty much confirms my choice that regardless of whether I will continue with Pokemon or not, I will not be touching Home. One of my most cherished Pokemon is a Gen 5 Thunderus that I caught once using a Masterball, which had a timid nature and hidden power ice. There is no way in hell I would ever transfer such a prize pokemon and lose its most special feature. I'm not in the mood to lose my Lv 100 Return M-Salamance or other Pokemon that I spent hours raising either. There is no security at all with using Home, as the best feature of my Pokemon could be stripped away with no warning.
I have every Legend and Mythical pokemon in my Ultra-moon game, along with every Mega and lots of level 100, IV and EV trained Pokemon. Even if Home allowed for Megas/Z-Move battles (which based on the most recent interview it almost certiainly won't) I would have to re-train many of my Pokemon, which I am not in the mood for doing, when it could all change again in gen 9.
So basically there is no motivation for collecting and transfering Pokemon anymore. If I do continue with the series (getting increasingly unlikley with every interview/leak), I have to treat each game as its own universe, and not bother connecting it to previous games. As with Dialganet2, I'm also a 29 year old veteran who has been involved with Pokemon from the start, but GF are rapidly killing my interest in the franchise. No way I am getting Sword/Shield unless its a second hand copy, my only hope is that the backlash in sales is great enough to make GF do a U-turn. I would say that anyone who is not happy with the way GF are heading should not buy the game. I don't want the franchise to make a big loss from a new game, but I think that is the only way to save it in the long term.
I have every Legend and Mythical pokemon in my Ultra-moon game, along with every Mega and lots of level 100, IV and EV trained Pokemon. Even if Home allowed for Megas/Z-Move battles (which based on the most recent interview it almost certiainly won't) I would have to re-train many of my Pokemon, which I am not in the mood for doing, when it could all change again in gen 9.
So basically there is no motivation for collecting and transfering Pokemon anymore. If I do continue with the series (getting increasingly unlikley with every interview/leak), I have to treat each game as its own universe, and not bother connecting it to previous games. As with Dialganet2, I'm also a 29 year old veteran who has been involved with Pokemon from the start, but GF are rapidly killing my interest in the franchise. No way I am getting Sword/Shield unless its a second hand copy, my only hope is that the backlash in sales is great enough to make GF do a U-turn. I would say that anyone who is not happy with the way GF are heading should not buy the game. I don't want the franchise to make a big loss from a new game, but I think that is the only way to save it in the long term.
Wait... what? Are they actively trying to shoot themselves in the foot and see if they can somehow luckily fire the bullets between toes?
I actually saw moves being cancelled coming, but redundant ones (like a Jump Kick vs Hi Jump Kick scenario, and countless others).
You've listed moves that have some unique utility and niche. I know this is going to sound extremely salty, and cancel the next sentence if it sparks anwarranted reactions, but I wholeheartedly agree.
If you're on the fence, please, please strongly consider not buying the games. Especially super-early on.
I know that high trees catch a lot of wind.
The hope we all need, but right now, definitely one we can't really have.
And honestly even if it was true, they'd have had *less* of a bad result by admitting having fucked it up than trying to cover it with 5 lies in a row
Indeed, but it makes me wonder (and hope) if some strange japanese custom made them feel they just couldn't admit it.
I think it's just them being too big/proud to admit a mistake. I've seen other Japanese companies like Capcom's Monster Hunter team apologise for fucking things up before, followed immediately with "this is how we're going to fix it".
Ever since that E3 I been losing more and more hope not just on pokémon but on GF on a whole, and it's sad because back when the first trailer got announced I was really excited, the "real" first pokémon game on consoles, not a spin-off or a re-remake the real deal this time, then come E3 and dexit happened, sure I was shocked to know they did the cut but they said we gonna get an uplift on the graphical and animation department, then people proved they were lying on their teeth and many animations were reused not just pokémon but even NPC's and the graphics are like an upscaled 3DS game, then the leaks came and a dex which is smaller than XY which came 6 years ago and only those pokémons to be allowed (IF they not release the other mons like the legends and starters as events), really brought me down. I been a big fan of this franchise, been playing since gen 1 and now when I try to explain to people why this title is not so hot I am called a false fan because some trolls decided to fan the flames on both sides. Ok it's your money so it's your call what to do but why will you pay more for a game with XY tier post-game, with half of the dex culled, with mechanics like ME and Z-Moves scrapped and recycled together as Dynamax and Gigantomax which in my personal opinion it's worse because It has the Z-Move problem of making great mons even better and making some exclusives borked, all this while paying 50% more + Home + Nintendo Connection? All in all I really not liking the new way GF is treating this series, it's like a spit in the face for many of the fans, and the way they address the issues made by Dexit is.... sorry, that's how we're doing from now on. I won't support this game and other future ones if they are like this, my pokémons will stay in Kalos/Hoenn and Alola, if they go back and make something like in SM were we are able to transfer all them back in the game I might consider but I think I might only come back when they have some good meaty post-game, nothing of that "ULTRA CHANGES" deal, something like G4 P/HGSS or G5 BW2 tier, though it might be pointless since we're like 3 gens without some good post-game which isn't Delta Episode then Tower clone and hunt legends ad infinitum. Meanwhile I am looking forward to play showdown. While not being able to use best mon (rest in alola Sceptile 
) my second favorite hydreigon just got buffed and I wanna put it to good use, also gonna be able to enjoy Rillaboom and Grimmsnarl without paying a cent so yeah I think I will be alright.
) my second favorite hydreigon just got buffed and I wanna put it to good use, also gonna be able to enjoy Rillaboom and Grimmsnarl without paying a cent so yeah I think I will be alright.tldr - Was hyped, Dexit and leaks happened and GF not wanting to change their stance on future games of the franchise got me disinterested on this game and possible any future games if they keep their stance and worried about quality of future entries of this series, whoever still excited to test the galarian meta on showdown.
Last edited:
I want to believe this (and I totally believe GF is that incompetent), but the models in SWSH are way too close to the 3DS models to merely be recreations.
Yung Dramps
awesome gaming
Is this seriously the point we have reached? Are we so fucking desperate, angered and in denial about this whole ordeal that we are putting our faith in "my uncle works at Nintendo"-tier statements? Until this guy whistleblows this situation to games media and they start covering it en masse I won't even begin to take it seriously, and neither should you.
Personally, I've been going through an emotional rollercoaster with SwSh ever since the first announcement.
I still remember E3 2017, when GF send out a message to all fans assuring new core Pkm RPGs were indeed in development for the Switch (although it was mainly damage control 'cause USUM were announced for the 3DS instead of the Switch earlier that year).
Of course, Let's Go happened first but in a way this excited me even more because now they could really focus on going all out on satisfying the core fans. And admittedly, the first trailer made me super excited - classic Pkm on a home console - everything I ever wanted.
But then E3 happened and frankly, at first I missed Dexit but after some time it dawned on me. And from that point onwards, I've been waiting for a justification for that decision based on game footage (interviews are often mistranslated so I gave them the benefit of the doubt). That justification has yet to come for me.
Don't get me wrong, I really want to really like these games. I've spent 15 years and 1000+ hours on this franchise, but GF is making this quite hard for me.
The leaks which should have sold me on the games, are effectively doing the opposite. Less Pkm than expected, removal of moves (has this ever happened before?!), presumably a pretty bland post-game and almost a promise that this cut'nGo is the way to go for the next games to come.
I recently played through B2 again and my god, I loved it. Hours of post-game (will there ever be another PWT? - such a great idea), quite strategic battle mechanics (tripple and rotation battles) and difficulty settings (though the accessing of that is ass, like why lock such a feature away... but still).
P.S. I just love the animated Pkm sprite, they're so expressive (but that's purely subjective).
It really seems to me, BW2 was the last time GF went all out on Pkm. With Gen6 onwards I always jokingly pictured GF saying: "We went 3D, are you not entertained?!" Seems like, today I should replace it with HD... :(
Edit.: Man, that escalated quickly. Even though nobody's gonna read all of this, I just had to get this out there. Somehow reliving :)
I still remember E3 2017, when GF send out a message to all fans assuring new core Pkm RPGs were indeed in development for the Switch (although it was mainly damage control 'cause USUM were announced for the 3DS instead of the Switch earlier that year).
Of course, Let's Go happened first but in a way this excited me even more because now they could really focus on going all out on satisfying the core fans. And admittedly, the first trailer made me super excited - classic Pkm on a home console - everything I ever wanted.
But then E3 happened and frankly, at first I missed Dexit but after some time it dawned on me. And from that point onwards, I've been waiting for a justification for that decision based on game footage (interviews are often mistranslated so I gave them the benefit of the doubt). That justification has yet to come for me.
Don't get me wrong, I really want to really like these games. I've spent 15 years and 1000+ hours on this franchise, but GF is making this quite hard for me.
The leaks which should have sold me on the games, are effectively doing the opposite. Less Pkm than expected, removal of moves (has this ever happened before?!), presumably a pretty bland post-game and almost a promise that this cut'nGo is the way to go for the next games to come.
I recently played through B2 again and my god, I loved it. Hours of post-game (will there ever be another PWT? - such a great idea), quite strategic battle mechanics (tripple and rotation battles) and difficulty settings (though the accessing of that is ass, like why lock such a feature away... but still).
P.S. I just love the animated Pkm sprite, they're so expressive (but that's purely subjective).
It really seems to me, BW2 was the last time GF went all out on Pkm. With Gen6 onwards I always jokingly pictured GF saying: "We went 3D, are you not entertained?!" Seems like, today I should replace it with HD... :(
Edit.: Man, that escalated quickly. Even though nobody's gonna read all of this, I just had to get this out there. Somehow reliving :)
Let's put "my uncle works at Nintendo" statements on the backburner for now and think about possibilities. One avenue moving forward for Pokémon is to do exactly what they said they would: releasing future games with a subset of existing Pokémon and moves while reserving the "total" dex for Pokémon Home. Another is to backtrack on their statement and announce a future game will have a National Dex; it's only logical they would say they listened to fans (and I mean they'd be right in that sense), but would they address any of the other issues that have been brought up: subpar graphics, excessive handholding, linear story progression, removal of previous features and options, etc? My gut says no, and it also says that fans will be satisfied enough with the return of all Pokémon to settle for all of the other issues being untouched. In neither case do I see any long-running issues being addressed since there isn't really enough pressure for them to do so.
If you really want to hammer it down I'd go the full mile and stop buying Pokemon merchandise entirely to further send the message. If you want a doll, cards or whatever buy second hand from someone else, don't let GF/TPCi get even a penny more from you.
No one would sit there and let a franchise burn like this instead of just announcing a delay. But considering how incompetent GF is and TPCi's need to sell sell sell on the dot this instant, this would be the craziest thing I'd ever witness in clown world if it was actually true. But I'll take this with the world's smallest grain of salt.
As a game artist, even though I am not a technical artist, I find it very difficult to believe that you somehow can't convert and import source files into a new engine. I've only used unreal, unity and one proprietary engine so far and even on the later, they all supported the same type of file format, converted from the same 3D editor gamefreak uses (Autodesk Maya, according to the sneak peak footage of their in-house WIP of SUMO if I remember well).
What's even less believable to me is that any game artist with a normal intelect would never recreate assets as old as the 3DS as is. It makes litterally no sense to redo the work without making it better or at least different in the process, especially the animations (because the models are good enough, they were far too high in polycount for the 3ds and I am pretty sure that it's because they knew pokemon would have to move on HD console sooner or later and saved themselves some work, that's proof that they aren't completely stupid.. maybe).
Personally I think it's about saving money on the cartridge size. Even if they are still far below the 16gb threshold, they'd have to present a standard of what players should expect from now on in terms of dex size while giving them enough room to expand on on other content in the future without going over 16 gb. they have ~5gb to add stuff in future installments like bigger maps, additionnal mega/giga/whatever forms, more unique trainers and whatnot...
I don't know the cost differences between 16gb cartridges and bigger ones, but considering the sheer amount of games they expect to sell each time I am guessing it's going to be at least a couple of millions $ in savings.
Beside that, I think it's to add more incentive to buy the next game, as the available pokemon would be different each times in addition to whatever gimmick they'l put in. "Oh hey, you can't say it's the same game this time lol"
While the reddit posts' validity is questionable and I doubt the user's credibility, it may not be entirely inaccurate. I decided to look into this model importation issue (aka a simple google search) and it does have some credence to it.
Sources:
Sources:
My thoughts on Dexit can be boiled down to this: There is no End Stage or Exit Strategy in the Pokemon Franchise, and the unique aspects of the games are starting to hinder them more than help.
Let me explain in detail.
Let me explain in detail.
When Pokemon came out 20+ years ago, it was like no other game before, and that made it into the monumental juggernaut that it became. The things that made (and in many ways still make, though copycats abound) Pokemon unique were that it was a A) Competitive (as in you can compete against another person, not in the sense of VGC or Smog tiers) B) Collectible (you collect Pokemon, but you also collect moves, badges, ribbons, and now Curry) and C) RPG (there's a bad guy, a story end, etc.) game all rolled into one. Imagine these three aspects as the legs of the barstool we call Pokemon. For Pokemon to be successful, for the barstool to hold something up, all aspects need to be more or less equal, as there are fans of of each aspect, and well, each aspect is needed to keep Pokemon being Pokemon.
However, as time goes on, these legs start to become uneven, so GF experiments on ways to even them out, with successes and failures. New types, new gimmick mechanics, Contests, CurryDex, Abilities, etc. all try to balance out the one leg that each generation grows taller and taller: the number of Pokemon to collect. Dexit, instead of trying to make the other legs taller, cuts down one to be equal with the others. It's a good solution (with horrible rollout, I'll admit) to a problem that would eventually consume the finite resources of development. They can't stop creating new Pokemon, because that might as well be knocking a leg away from the stool, at which point the whole thing falls down.
In my opinion, there were no other options to keep the games intact as we know them. A Pokemon game without a competitive aspect is a run of the mill JRPG with some collection sidequests. A Pokemon game without a RPG aspect is a battle simulator, aka Showdown. And a Pokemon game without collection functions similarly to chess: limited mons with limited options. As has been discussed before, you can't delay the games due to other media, hiring more people stops being a net positive after a certain threshold, being public about your incompetence has negative effects, etc. Eventually, if things continued like they have in previous gens, something would suffer to keep all the Pokemon in. People already complain about how repetitive Pokemon is, and I think that it could get worse. Pokemon has already been weird since XY, when so many things (including a 3rd version!) got dropped.
I don't know what's going on at Nintendo, GF, and TPC. I do know that, for those of us old enough to remember the late 90s/early 00s, it is nearly impossible to describe the Pokemania at that time, and the rabid fans it created. Maybe that yarn we're getting about a NatDex come next gen/next game are true, though I don't believe it. Maybe in Gen XX on the Nintendo Matrix you'll be able to transfer and play with all 2000 Pokemon. The problem of the uneven barstool, however, still remains. I think GF is starting to realize it too. In my opinion, they didn't really consider the long term effects of this number of Pokemon till they started working on Bank. I think it never dawned on them that the mania would carry on this long, nor that legacy support would eat up so much time that eventually they would be doing nothing but developing moves/models/abilities for old Pokemon. But that's where we we would be going, if things didn't change. Maybe, at around the end of Gen 3, GF should have made the call that each generation's mons will be contained to that gen, like 1 and 2 were. They didn't and now here we are.
Pokemon is already starting to mutate. It already has two successful mobile games and a much less complicated spin-off series. If the core games are a dud due to fans not buying them, I don't think it's going to make GF reconsider the moves they have made (though this shouldn't be a reason to buy a game you hate). Instead, I think GF will throw their hands up, quit making games for the main Nintendo console, and move on to developing some sort of dummied down Pokemon games for mobile (I strongly feel that's where some of the higher ups are at honestly). They've already introduced the Meltan line in a mobile game, so what makes you think they won't start doing that from here on out, especially if they don't have a core series to uphold anymore? There are plenty of collection and battle apps out there, and mobile games would allow GF to get away with lower graphics and repeatable story events. Don't just consider what Pokemon is, but also consider where it might go.
Personally, I've already pre-ordered Shield. I've been around Pokemon since Gen I, and the one thing I want from the series, more than anything, is to finally be able to experience Pokemon as creatures, ones that have personality, that move around the overworld as more or less fully fleshed out beings. SwSh is giving me that, despite taking so much away.
I'll also note this: the Switch is going to probably be the last console I'll follow Pokemon on, at least to the degree I currently am. The reason for that is, while the 20+ year formula is a money machine, it's also gotten incredibly stale. I'm tired of FWG starters, I'm tired of 4 move, turn based combat, I'm tired of the weird mid-game slump where your second stage mons all suck till they evolve again, and I'm tired of competitive (so much stuff should have been suspect tested this gen but never was, because semi-broken A checks semi-broken B, C, D, because Smogon has an aversion to complex bans, etc. I don't care anymore there's 4 days left in the meta). Ironically, Dexit has made me interested in competitive pokemon to a level I haven't experienced since BW, when I first joined the scene. I'll still buy the occasional game to have fun, but I'm at the point in my life where other games get me more for my effort and time. It's been a good ride, I'm enjoying the last few twist and turns, but I'm ready to get off. What you do is up to you.
However, as time goes on, these legs start to become uneven, so GF experiments on ways to even them out, with successes and failures. New types, new gimmick mechanics, Contests, CurryDex, Abilities, etc. all try to balance out the one leg that each generation grows taller and taller: the number of Pokemon to collect. Dexit, instead of trying to make the other legs taller, cuts down one to be equal with the others. It's a good solution (with horrible rollout, I'll admit) to a problem that would eventually consume the finite resources of development. They can't stop creating new Pokemon, because that might as well be knocking a leg away from the stool, at which point the whole thing falls down.
In my opinion, there were no other options to keep the games intact as we know them. A Pokemon game without a competitive aspect is a run of the mill JRPG with some collection sidequests. A Pokemon game without a RPG aspect is a battle simulator, aka Showdown. And a Pokemon game without collection functions similarly to chess: limited mons with limited options. As has been discussed before, you can't delay the games due to other media, hiring more people stops being a net positive after a certain threshold, being public about your incompetence has negative effects, etc. Eventually, if things continued like they have in previous gens, something would suffer to keep all the Pokemon in. People already complain about how repetitive Pokemon is, and I think that it could get worse. Pokemon has already been weird since XY, when so many things (including a 3rd version!) got dropped.
I don't know what's going on at Nintendo, GF, and TPC. I do know that, for those of us old enough to remember the late 90s/early 00s, it is nearly impossible to describe the Pokemania at that time, and the rabid fans it created. Maybe that yarn we're getting about a NatDex come next gen/next game are true, though I don't believe it. Maybe in Gen XX on the Nintendo Matrix you'll be able to transfer and play with all 2000 Pokemon. The problem of the uneven barstool, however, still remains. I think GF is starting to realize it too. In my opinion, they didn't really consider the long term effects of this number of Pokemon till they started working on Bank. I think it never dawned on them that the mania would carry on this long, nor that legacy support would eat up so much time that eventually they would be doing nothing but developing moves/models/abilities for old Pokemon. But that's where we we would be going, if things didn't change. Maybe, at around the end of Gen 3, GF should have made the call that each generation's mons will be contained to that gen, like 1 and 2 were. They didn't and now here we are.
Pokemon is already starting to mutate. It already has two successful mobile games and a much less complicated spin-off series. If the core games are a dud due to fans not buying them, I don't think it's going to make GF reconsider the moves they have made (though this shouldn't be a reason to buy a game you hate). Instead, I think GF will throw their hands up, quit making games for the main Nintendo console, and move on to developing some sort of dummied down Pokemon games for mobile (I strongly feel that's where some of the higher ups are at honestly). They've already introduced the Meltan line in a mobile game, so what makes you think they won't start doing that from here on out, especially if they don't have a core series to uphold anymore? There are plenty of collection and battle apps out there, and mobile games would allow GF to get away with lower graphics and repeatable story events. Don't just consider what Pokemon is, but also consider where it might go.
Personally, I've already pre-ordered Shield. I've been around Pokemon since Gen I, and the one thing I want from the series, more than anything, is to finally be able to experience Pokemon as creatures, ones that have personality, that move around the overworld as more or less fully fleshed out beings. SwSh is giving me that, despite taking so much away.
I'll also note this: the Switch is going to probably be the last console I'll follow Pokemon on, at least to the degree I currently am. The reason for that is, while the 20+ year formula is a money machine, it's also gotten incredibly stale. I'm tired of FWG starters, I'm tired of 4 move, turn based combat, I'm tired of the weird mid-game slump where your second stage mons all suck till they evolve again, and I'm tired of competitive (so much stuff should have been suspect tested this gen but never was, because semi-broken A checks semi-broken B, C, D, because Smogon has an aversion to complex bans, etc. I don't care anymore there's 4 days left in the meta). Ironically, Dexit has made me interested in competitive pokemon to a level I haven't experienced since BW, when I first joined the scene. I'll still buy the occasional game to have fun, but I'm at the point in my life where other games get me more for my effort and time. It's been a good ride, I'm enjoying the last few twist and turns, but I'm ready to get off. What you do is up to you.
there's a lot of lies in there, if not then it's straight up retardness.
some of them are :
-"With the inclusion of gimmicks like Mega Evolution and Dynamax that affect all Pokemon, this would mean even more graphics production and balancing, so making it happen would be hard " dynamax is just the base model scaled up, it doesn't need to be a new model. a close shot of a normal pokemon looks the same on screen as a close shot from a dynamaxed pokemon. it's simple polygon/pixel ratio
-" With Pokemon Sword/Shield and the need to redo models, they had to make a decision " again, even if they did remake the model there was no need to, just look at some emulator footage of 3ds era in full hd and you'l see that the models looks just fine at an even greater resolution than SWSH.
-"– With the shift to the Switch, the amount of time needed to make the graphics more beautiful and the animations more lively has increased " what they actually did : create new pokemons with their animations from scratch, create a new shader, maybe tweeked the textures of all included pokemons?(looks solid color to me, same textures as sumo but exported at higer resolution from the source file)
-"Because of this, apart from the graphics, balancing for new Pokemon with new abilities has become very hard " I honestly don't believe in deep balancing from gamefreak's side as pokemons were never meant to be equals ever but I think that regulars from smogon would have a better opinion than mine on the matter. even if they actually balance stuff deeply, it's a process that is completely independent of every other department of the development. they had 2-3 years to do the balancing while the rest of the team could do the designing, 3d stuff, animations ,sounds and whatever...
The stool example is just plain wrong and misses the point. You think that people who play Pokemon for the RPG story prefer to have only 100 Pokemon added as opposed to 200 because it would throw the stool of balance? Of course not, as long as the story is new they would hardly be bothered by the amount of Pokemon even if there were 1000 new Pokemon as opposed to e.g. 150. In fact to the extend that they do care about the amount fo Pokemon they would probably prefer 1000.
Besides, if you were correct then I would assume that gen 4 would have been the failed gen, since it drastically changed competitive with online play without drastically increasing the amount of Pokemon or drastically changing the story. Why did the collectors and role players not complaim about online throwing the stool off balance?
Let’s see if I can go beyond a simple exercise-in-futility, hypothetically speaking post.
Short answer: Too timely and convenient to not be entirely (or 95%) fabricated. If things are as I think, GF and TPC are once again insulting our intelligence and trying to bamboozle us.
Explanation (long as usual):
Let's take the credibility of the source (which is a big question mark) out of the equation for a minute, and ponder about the content.
First, I have checked with my brother-in-law's sister who lives in Japan, and she is convinced that not disclosing this due to cultural principles is a little far-fetched and convoluted. Don’t know if any Japanese people can back this up or counter her opinion, but it’s the best in-culture contact that I had.
Secondly, the timing: we are 3 days from release, the PR campaign has been a train wreck that keeps on running the Precipice Blades (here's where Groudon has gone!) since Summer, pricetag is (at least) 33% up (if not 50%), and datamining so far (of which I am confident they are completely aware of) has only worsened the situation: the Dex is far more limited than anticipated, and a good portion or the more loyal (and vocal) fans are fanning the flames. Some, like myself, has made up their minds against purchasing.
We are, upon release, in an extreme “buyer beware” (Bewear is in the games, right? Think about it. Ok, I’m going to stop with this asinine jokes about Dexit) situation.
What would the most convenient time to say “it’s just a one-off thing, everything will be fine” be? Right now, am I right? This is one of many reasons this sounds suspicious as hell.
Moreover, if we play the hypothetical “it’s true” game, it still clashes with how things are in reality: had they met such an incident in development, and failed to port old models to switch, actively redoing every model from scratch, it would have been the perfect chance to actually come out with a reduced dex and have a plausible explanation for it. If you lose all the animations while trying to import them, why the hell did you redo all animations from scratch exactly the same and get smashed by having everybody accusing you of laziness?
Final point, if this was the case, I genuinely think that they could have just stick to reality and simply release an information withholding, corporate statement about how the first generation on home consolle was an incredibly stimulating challenge, but unfortunately they could not get the whole Dex in the game, and they were looking forward to having all content available for the next installment. Such a statement would have gotten backlash, there is no denying it, but it would have been better than the farce we have been experiencing.
TLDR: I’m not buying this, too good to be true.
I understand where you’re coming from, I really really do, but the problem is that the other two legs are at worst independent from the roster leg, if anything it can (and it is) be argued that they too get longer (I mean, better) with it getting longer. The reasons you like the games and don’t mind Dexit are fine, but I would continue to argue that National Dex availability do not detract from your entertainment, and that the standard we all should take IPs to is to, at the very least, not alienate part of the fanbase with no reason. I wholeheartedly hope you, and all people getting the games on Day 1, will enjoy the games to its fullest.
Merchandise releases and other media ought to be rescheduled, if you’re running the risk of releasing an half-baked main installment. Rescheduling due to technical reasons and wanting to release a better product is a decision that has been met with remarkable lenience in the industry in recent times – on the contrary, incomplete products released because “release date approaches” have been killed by the general opinion.
“Less is more” does not work in an RPG adventure. In RPGs, more is more. Even not accounting legacy reasoning, there are live service, RPG games with far more expanded rosters of tools, items and complicated models. It would have been un unfair comparison in years past, but by going 60€ on Switch, they’re now a fair comparison.
And no publisher of such games, when met with complaints about sporadic content droughts, has ever answered (and it would never answer) “duh, models are hard”. Be it guns, weapons, monsters, characters. Everyone who tried to dumb the games down in terms of options and content variety have been lambasted, and rightfully so.
The only reasoning that make all decisions straightforward is “gotta cash in every year”, but that doesn’t mean it’s an acceptable one, at least for me (and some others).
Last edited:
Out of curiosity, how has the full datamine impacted people's thoughts on Dexit?
For me, though I only mildly minded in the first place, knowing we're getting six old starter lines back and quite a few popular legendaries has made me feel better about it. Especially since I like Ubers and this selection is definitely strong enough for a healthy Ubers meta to exist (we have 10 previous gen ubers and four more that are practically guaranteed to be put there) while excluding most of the things that made both Ubers and OU frustrating last generation.
I don't like that Pursuit is gone, and I would have liked a flat 100 power/100 accuracy normal move to replace the annoying mechanics of Frustration and Return, but I'm glad they ditched Hidden Power.
For me, though I only mildly minded in the first place, knowing we're getting six old starter lines back and quite a few popular legendaries has made me feel better about it. Especially since I like Ubers and this selection is definitely strong enough for a healthy Ubers meta to exist (we have 10 previous gen ubers and four more that are practically guaranteed to be put there) while excluding most of the things that made both Ubers and OU frustrating last generation.
I don't like that Pursuit is gone, and I would have liked a flat 100 power/100 accuracy normal move to replace the annoying mechanics of Frustration and Return, but I'm glad they ditched Hidden Power.
Personally, not much. It's about what I was expecting (though, I hoped a bit more).
I was surprised by the moveset cuts, but ended up actually liking how it turned out.
I was still going to get SwSh either ways, dexit or not dexit. The dexit itself never bothered me (I still consider it a bad decision).
What the *next* games will be and how GF will handle the aftermath of Sword/Shield will determine if I'll keep buying the series or not.