Dexit discussion thread

Well IMO, Dexit could have been handled much better... if you cut around 250 mons, while backlash is still going to exist, it's going to be a lot less because we are still having around 75% of our loved old mons... but heck, when you cut more than 60% of the old mons, it's pretty obvious that people is going to be really unhappy and whine about so many losses... especially when some of the returning mons are not exactly what we could call "staples" for many people...
 

trubbish

Banned deucer.
Thats another entite year of both anime padding and an entire format worth of cards in the tcg. Very important to note that in the tcg, cards rotate out of play, and by that time cards used in the beginning of the gen, usually the very staples of a new meta, would start to be cycled out. Thats...very unreasonable.
I'm not buying that LGPE and USUM had that much of an effect on the anime/tcg to warrant dipping resources into. The anime can easily run a series for ~3 years and there is absolutely no rule for it *having* to follow the games. In fact, many people thought they were rebooting the anime for this gen and were totally down for it. Why restrict the games for the anime? Doesn't seem like a sound business plan.

I also don't really understand your point about the tcg. The tcg only relies on the games for new Pokemon, am I wrong? Expansions come out independent of the game and generally have no relevance to it.
 
So... Here are my two cents. They're mine! They don't have to be yours!

So I was never the kind of guy to want to 100% complete the Dex. I beat the games, got my team to the 90s, and completed the regional Dex, sure, but I was never one to go for that all. So it didn't hurt that bad hearing about Dexit. A lot of people I knew felt the same. I was just like... Oh. Huh. That's fine.

Seeing my fave get cut (Scolipede) was a bummer. But I used it a lot in other games! And I'm excited to see how the new ones work! The new designs are pretty great IMO- I haven't seen most of the leak designs but I like what I see (yes, even Spy Randall). And hey, Showdown's still gonna have NatDex. I hope they fix it in future games, but I wouldn't be too hurt if they don't have one with every Pokémon again. Just please, for god's sake, give Chikorita some love!
 
So... Here are my two cents. They're mine! They don't have to be yours!

So I was never the kind of guy to want to 100% complete the Dex. I beat the games, got my team to the 90s, and completed the regional Dex, sure, but I was never one to go for that all. So it didn't hurt that bad hearing about Dexit. A lot of people I knew felt the same. I was just like... Oh. Huh. That's fine.

Seeing my fave get cut (Scolipede) was a bummer. But I used it a lot in other games! And I'm excited to see how the new ones work! The new designs are pretty great IMO- I haven't seen most of the leak designs but I like what I see (yes, even Spy Randall). And hey, Showdown's still gonna have NatDex. I hope they fix it in future games, but I wouldn't be too hurt if they don't have one with every Pokémon again. Just please, for god's sake, give Chikorita some love!
No one cares that Pokemon were cut from the single player experience. The issue is that these Pokemon have been cut from the game code. This is the first time it has *ever* happened and sets a precedent that a lot of players aren't happy with.
 
I’d argue a transfer-only pokemon is about as marketable as a locked out pokemon- that is, not much (and it being out of the game doesn’t suddenly make it not someone’s favorite), hence why they focus on making new stuff and forms to sell merch
That's entirely dependant on a pokemon popularity being entirely independent from the games, sure it happens in some cases, but look at a pokemon such as Garchomp it only got any exposure in other media thanks to it already being popular, which it had from been prominent in both the games' story and competitive scene

exposure in the latest game can very well impact a pokemon's marketability
 
That's entirely dependant on a pokemon popularity being entirely independent from the games, sure it happens in some cases, but look at a pokemon such as Garchomp it only got any exposure in other media thanks to it already being popular, which it had from been prominent in both the games' story and competitive scene

exposure in the latest game can very well impact a pokemon's marketability
While relevance in the story or competitive definitely helps a mon become popular, it doesn't really need to be sustained for a mon to stay popular, at least when it comes to story relevance. Garchomp started off swinging in Gen 4 by being both incredibly powerful and Cynthia's ace, and while it remained powerful in every gen after, it hasn't really done much else in terms of story, at least to my knowledge.
 
So in other words cutting off pokemon mostly upsets the most involved and most likely biggest costumers and endangers their continued patronage
 
Well... this is a pretty neat discussion but in the end... are you going to buy this game or not???? I personally think that I'm not going to spend that much money on a game that will make me feel sad about losing a huge bunch of my favourite mons, especially when I could go to showdown and play without basically any restrictions... so, maybe we should stick to make them feel our disappoint and make a difference in the sales department which is what really matters for Nintendo/Game Freak...
I am not. Online is a pay wall holding back a lot of content so for all intents and purposes it's an 80 dollar game with less in it than the 40 dollar USUM I already have.

I'll just play Showdown for free. I don't need to pay 80 dollars to curbstomp some NPCs.
Wonderful logic! I don't want to spend money on something, because I find it too expensive, so instead I'll just steal it.
 
You cannot steal intellectual property because it's not a physical thing. And copyright laws nowadays are highly corrupt anyway so I'm not really bothered by breaking them if my billionaire "victim" is not.

Though I'm also pretty surprised that PS! is not forced out of existence yet.
 
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Though I'm also pretty surprised that PS! is not forced out of existence yet.
Using Showdown is stealing intellectual property. I'm kinda baffled it still exists.
It only exists because GameFreaks and Nintendo haven't done anything about it, was stated a lot of times.
If they wanted, they could bring it down like they did with some fangames.

The reasoning for which they don't, nobody knows. I always assumed because it's just a massive amount of free advertisement for the games, plus almost every VGC player uses showdown to practice, so they'd just hurt themselves by shutting it down.
 
It only exists because GameFreaks and Nintendo haven't done anything about it, was stated a lot of times.
If they wanted, they could bring it down like they did with some fangames.
I know, this is why it surprises me that it's still up. It's also why I like to have the source code on my computer, as PS! could be purged from the internet at the whim of Nintendo.
 
I know, this is why it surprises me that it's still up. It's also why I like to have the source code on my computer, as PS! could be purged from the internet at the whim of Nintendo.
Probably because Nintendo doesn't feel threatened by it and because every cease and deist letter they send will get negative publicity. Killing Showdown isn't important to them because if they do a new version will just pop up. Before Showdown there was Shoddy Battle, Netbattle, Pokemon Online, etc all used by Smogon and plenty of others that weren't. Also Showdown is free so it's not like Nintendo is competing with it financially.
 
I guess they don't do anything because it's merely a battle simulator. If it were a full-fledged game, with its story and such, they'd get a little mad.

It can't be a coincidence that, between all C&D's they do to Pokémon games, battle simulators are never part of the hit list.
 
Also Showdown is free so it's not like Nintendo is competing with it financially.
PS! being free has nothing to with whether Nintendo is competing with them or not.

Killing Showdown isn't important to them because if they do a new version will just pop up. Before Showdown there was Shoddy Battle, Netbattle, Pokemon Online, etc
What is "etc"? Because you named every simulator that I already knew about except for NetBattle Supremacy. So that's 5 simulators spread over than 15 or more years. Nintendo could easily have taken them all down. It's not like a new one is added to the internet every week. It normally takes a few years before a new one is made. That's more than enough time for Nintendo to shut them all down.
 
I guess they don't do anything because it's merely a battle simulator. If it were a full-fledged game, with its story and such, they'd get a little mad.
This seems like the most logical reason. They've known about Battle Sims before and afaik haven't sent any C&D orders after any of them so it seems like they don't care if that part is replicated. Otherwise they would have gone after the previous ones regardless of if any new versions pop up since you have to defend your IP to really protect it. Plus it being free likely helps, but it's not a shield against it. If Nintendo really did want to they likely could with no issue.

I'm not buying that LGPE and USUM had that much of an effect on the anime/tcg to warrant dipping resources into. The anime can easily run a series for ~3 years and there is absolutely no rule for it *having* to follow the games. In fact, many people thought they were rebooting the anime for this gen and were totally down for it. Why restrict the games for the anime? Doesn't seem like a sound business plan.

I also don't really understand your point about the tcg. The tcg only relies on the games for new Pokemon, am I wrong? Expansions come out independent of the game and generally have no relevance to it.
The anime usually loosely follows the games, at least as far as Ash going to the gyms in the same order as the games and vague bits of the story making its way into the story arc for the show, so outside of Gen 1 and Gen 3 they tend to do two series around the same region in the games and then move on to the next. Not only that, but the movies also tend to feature the new mythical Pokemon introduced in that generation, one at a time, as a highly successful marketing tool, and gen 7 just had Marshadow and Zeraora as the two Mythics, although that's likely due to them planning on doing the First Movie remake since '18 was the 20th anniversary of its release so they had that movie already planned. That said, it definitely looks like they were setting up for another Orange Island/Battle Frontier style series that seems detached from what the games would be about with this season which seems... weird. Like they were planning on trying to take more time to make the game but then either changed or asked/forced to change direction and committing to have it out at a specific and highly marketable time.

As for the tcg, they also have tied in a few gimmicks with the games, given that Megas and Z-moves (i think in 2 different ways. GX Attacks at least are their equivalent) exist in the tcg. Not too familiar with card game design stuff and whatnot, nor am I familiar with how they design cards, i.e. does the Pokemon chosen have a ton of effect on what kind of attacks they give it? If so, then new 'mons means a bit more design freedom on that and it keeps the meta from potentially becoming stale... well, as stale as a meta with multiple new releases and card rotations each year can be. That said, if it's anything like Wizards and Magic: The Gathering then new cards are designed and worked on a year or so before the set comes out, so depending on how their design works then they may pick what Pokemon gets a card before designing the rest of it. If so, then sometime last year would have likely been when they figured out what 'mons are in the new tcg set and delaying the game may have caused issues with that.
 
So in other words cutting off pokemon mostly upsets the most involved and most likely biggest costumers and endangers their continued patronage
I wouldn’t equate most-involved with highest spending. I’m sure a lot of us hardcore fans didn’t touch Let’s Go but that game still easily hit top 10 best selling switch games. I also don’t think we’re the larger merch buyers (only merch I have is an ironic throh plush lol), and I see plenty of random people who only play the games causally sporting more merch than I do, or they’re children. Like I’m pretty sure they examined various stats like pokebank users and sales demographics when they made this change, the casual/semicasual fanbase dwarfs the size of the hardcore fanbase, no matter how large the twitter mob echo chamber makes it seem that literally everyone has a cherished collection of 6 31 IV abras waiting to transfer over.
 

Codraroll

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I wouldn’t equate most-involved with highest spending. I’m sure a lot of us hardcore fans didn’t touch Let’s Go but that game still easily hit top 10 best selling switch games. I also don’t think we’re the larger merch buyers (only merch I have is an ironic throh plush lol), and I see plenty of random people who only play the games causally sporting more merch than I do, or they’re children. Like I’m pretty sure they examined various stats like pokebank users and sales demographics when they made this change, the casual/semicasual fanbase dwarfs the size of the hardcore fanbase, no matter how large the twitter mob echo chamber makes it seem that literally everyone has a cherished collection of 6 31 IV abras waiting to transfer over.
One thing to remember, though, is that it's the fans that market the game. No marketing department in the world could steer the narrative about Pokémon around the Net to the degree that devoted fans do. Whenever Nintendo drops a new trailer, YouTube is swarming with PokéTubers who analyze it and bring their own opinions. And if kids can find Nintendo's trailer on YouTube, they can (and likely, do) find the PokéTubers as well. Put another way, the kids who don't read Serebii don't watch the official trailers either. Given how much the game hides essential information like how to evolve certain Pokémon, and how this information tends to be aggregated on fan sites, a very large portion of the playerbase will find their way to the fan sites sooner or later.

Likewise, articles about Pokémon on various mainstream gaming sites are usually written by authors in-the-know - they follow the fan sites, 'cause that's the way to get to know the games well enough not to make glaring mistakes. Otherwise, the comment section would quickly call them out for it. Reviews, both professional or aggregate reviews like Metacritic are going to get a lot of fan input. Facebook ads have comments now, guess who posts there? The content that reaches a wider audience is going to be shaped by fans one way or another. The people who play the games but aren't super into them are likely to do a little reading before choosing to buy, and wherever they choose to read, the fan reactions will be there. So when the fans are unhappy, the Internet is going to know. And then consumers are going to know.

If anything, fan outrage makes for a good story for the general news sites. Remember the Fallout 76 canvas bag debacle? It became a pretty huge thing, even though it only directly affected those who had shelled out for a $200 edition of the game. The outrage from those hardcore fans spread far enough to put a pretty big dent in the game's reputation.


So yeah, if they alienate the hardcore fans, it's roughly equivalent to buying a very large marketing campaign against themselves. It's not necessarily that every John or Jane Gamer out there will miss their Abra collection personally, but the perception of lesser quality will spread to them one way or another, and it might influence them to not buy the game, which in turn reduces the interest in merchandise.
 

trubbish

Banned deucer.
One thing to remember, though, is that it's the fans that market the game. No marketing department in the world could steer the narrative about Pokémon around the Net to the degree that devoted fans do. Whenever Nintendo drops a new trailer, YouTube is swarming with PokéTubers who analyze it and bring their own opinions. And if kids can find Nintendo's trailer on YouTube, they can (and likely, do) find the PokéTubers as well. Put another way, the kids who don't read Serebii don't watch the official trailers either. Given how much the game hides essential information like how to evolve certain Pokémon, and how this information tends to be aggregated on fan sites, a very large portion of the playerbase will find their way to the fan sites sooner or later.

Likewise, articles about Pokémon on various mainstream gaming sites are usually written by authors in-the-know - they follow the fan sites, 'cause that's the way to get to know the games well enough not to make glaring mistakes. Otherwise, the comment section would quickly call them out for it. Reviews, both professional or aggregate reviews like Metacritic are going to get a lot of fan input. Facebook ads have comments now, guess who posts there? The content that reaches a wider audience is going to be shaped by fans one way or another. The people who play the games but aren't super into them are likely to do a little reading before choosing to buy, and wherever they choose to read, the fan reactions will be there. So when the fans are unhappy, the Internet is going to know. And then consumers are going to know.

If anything, fan outrage makes for a good story for the general news sites. Remember the Fallout 76 canvas bag debacle? It became a pretty huge thing, even though it only directly affected those who had shelled out for a $200 edition of the game. The outrage from those hardcore fans spread far enough to put a pretty big dent in the game's reputation.


So yeah, if they alienate the hardcore fans, it's roughly equivalent to buying a very large marketing campaign against themselves. It's not necessarily that every John or Jane Gamer out there will miss their Abra collection personally, but the perception of lesser quality will spread to them one way or another, and it might influence them to not buy the game, which in turn reduces the interest in merchandise.
I agree with this, and it's why I don't feel that it's necessarily an immoral or unethical thing to actually buy the games, even if you believe they are likely going to be bad. Negative discourse and bad reviews have a bigger impact than the one sale it took to spawn them.
 
I agree with this, and it's why I don't feel that it's necessarily an immoral or unethical thing to actually buy the games, even if you believe they are likely going to be bad. Negative discourse and bad reviews have a bigger impact than the one sale it took to spawn them.
Actually, it's one sale per person. So that's going to be a lot of sales just for that negative discourse.
 
Why are people on unironicly thanking Game Freak with the Hashtag #ThankYouGameFreak ? Right now it would be the worst possible time to thank them as a company. Though rethinking that, it may be justified
So I wrote a poem for Game Freak also thanking them. I hope you enjoy since never wrote one in my life 'till now
Thank you game freak for cutting over half the National Dex
Thank you game freak for removing Megas
Thank you gamefreak for removing Z-Moves
Thank you game freak for not being able to port Pokemon Models from LGPE despite it being a switch game
Thank you game freak for demanding me to pay 50% more than previously
Thank you for saving me 60 Euros
 
Maybe because people are super drained and tired of all thr spam, toxicty, harrassment, death threats, and rape allegations that caused a bunch of devs who are working to the bone to be depressed?

Just a hunch.
 

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