Dexit discussion thread

but in the end... are you going to buy this game or not????
After the disappointment that was Ultra Sun and Moon's "ultra changes", absolutely not.

The number of excuses made for cutting the Dex, the transfer limiting with Home, the general laziness with story/postgame after gen 5 and the fact that Colosseum/Gale of Darkness/Battle Revolution look much better than gen 6-8 to this day has made me not want to buy anything Pokemon related for awhile until they get their act together.
 
Well... this is a pretty neat discussion but in the end... are you going to buy this game or not???? I personally think that I'm not going to spend that much money on a game that will make me feel sad about losing a huge bunch of my favourite mons, especially when I could go to showdown and play without basically any restrictions... so, maybe we should stick to make them feel our disappoint and make a difference in the sales department which is what really matters for Nintendo/Game Freak...
Just buy if you want to, don’t if you don’t want to. But assuming that a bunch of us not buying the game will hurt their bottom line is a little optimistic- I’m sure they looked at the Pokémon Bank subscription rate or something like that and determined the people who actually transfer their mons over make a small percentage of the player base (I regularly wipe my profiles, even of stuff like shinies) and that it’s fine to lose their sales in order to get the game out on time, or whatever. Personally I’m just waiting to see what reviews say because I neither care about the graphics (which is on par with other 3DS-to-switch franchises like fire emblem tbh) not dexit, I just want to play a semi-open world pokemon game. USUM sucked dong but that’s because it was literally just SM again, I just want a different experience
 
But assuming that a bunch of us not buying the game will hurt their bottom line is a little optimistic
If we are lucky the hardcore fans are about 7 million people (the average sales of third version) if say 5 or so of them either don't buy the game or delay their purchase that's very significant for investors

As for why should Gamefreak care about me specifically, I'm one of those "system seller game" purchasers, I don't have a Switch, I didn't care for a 3DS or a DS before Pokemon and I won't be buying a Switch for this nor will I be picking up any of the games I usually do after buying a nintendo system
I'm basically the demographic that Pokemon themed Switch Lites where made for
let's see how significant that demographic is for nintendo
 
One can only hope whatever results from this makes TPC take cues from the development of Animal Crossing.

Although, then again, the Pokémon merch being as huge as it is makes things harder...
 
If we are lucky the hardcore fans are about 7 million people (the average sales of third version) if say 5 or so of them either don't buy the game or delay their purchase that's very significant for investors
From the third gen to present all "first" new gen games have sold about 16 million pretty consistently. I think it's unrealistic to see a huge sales drop as a lot of people are angry about Dexit but still going to buy the game. There's something special about it that hasn't been re-created elsewhere so people are still going to buy it.

However the fans have spoken pretty loudly. Look at any message board on the internet and there will be tens or hundreds of comments about dexit. The message is clear that this isn't a direction that the people want. Sw/Sh will probably sell decently but if Gamefreak stays firm in their dexit decision in future games you could see the long term fan base start to rot away.

So don't expect this game to fail but customer reviews will be at least somewhat mixed and Gamefreak certainly knows how we feel. I'm hoping the think their next actions through very carefully.
 

trubbish

Banned deucer.
But that would depend on the player's priorities on a game.

Someone could say "they remove more than half the dex and they don't bother to make the game better-looking" like you do, but someone could say "I couldn't care less about graphics; apart from the Dexit the game seems to be actually quite good... which makes the feeling about the Dexit worse", like I do.
I think you pretty much nailed it. A huge part of the appeal of Pokemon is the endless selection of characters to choose from. It gives the games virtually limitless replay whether you play casual or competitive. The cross gen connectivity makes Pokemon games unique next to other RPGs and is a huge reason why these games hold their value for decades. Halo 3 is 5 dollars now, Pokemon Diamond is still 35 bucks.

Dexit takes a massive chunk of Pokémon's appeal and throws it in the trash. Who cares about individual Pokemon anymore if they can be locked in a game forever? Why pay for a 60 dollar switch game with an additional 20 dollar charge for multiplayer when I can just pay 40 for USUM to get about twice as much content?

Tldr dexit shows gamefreak is either unaware of, or doesn't care about what the fans love from the series. We can't even pretend this is good competitively dexit also purged half of the tiers. Don't claim the meta will be balanced lol, not when Dynamax exists.
I personally can not side with this line of thinking. I think limiting the appeal of Pokemon to just how many Pokemon exist removes everything else that makes Pokemon as appealing and unique as it is. If all that mattered in a Pokemon game was how many Pokemon are available to use, that would imply that every successive game is better than the last. Which is obviously false. I mean, people generally cite HG/SS and Platinum or even Emerald as the peak for the series. And yet those games all have less Pokemon total than SW/SH. Why is that?

Thats because those games have functions that complement the Pokemon to use. I mean, if Pokemon was nothing more than a tamagotchi style sim game then I'd understand. But its not, its an adventure. And I think that at its core is what makes Pokemon special to a lot of people. I firmly believe that most people would be more forgiving of the dexcut if the game actually looked good. And in this instance I do believe that the game looking good is independent to how many Pokemon are available in it. But I suppose thats just me. I find it hard to believe that one would prefer a mediocre game with 1000+ Pokemon over a great one with only around 200 or so.
 
If we are lucky the hardcore fans are about 7 million people (the average sales of third version) if say 5 or so of them either don't buy the game or delay their purchase that's very significant for investors

As for why should Gamefreak care about me specifically, I'm one of those "system seller game" purchasers, I don't have a Switch, I didn't care for a 3DS or a DS before Pokemon and I won't be buying a Switch for this nor will I be picking up any of the games I usually do after buying a nintendo system
I'm basically the demographic that Pokemon themed Switch Lites where made for
let's see how significant that demographic is for nintendo
I’d say a better statistic would be pokemon bank subscription- I bought Ultra Sun and Moon, as did my (very) casual friend on launch day. He played like 5 hours and then never touched it again, as he had with his copy of Sun (unthinkable, I know). Neither of us transferred or have bank subscriptions, but we bought the game, so I wouldn’t say every single of one of the 7 million 3rd version buyers are hardcore fans, or at least hardcore enough to be truly impacted by dexit (which is still a minority, I believe). Anecdotal evidence but just something to take into account.

I already have a switch, but as a system seller I can see this ending poorly for them (even if the Switch is already widespread at this point, so most buyers probably have a switch already), so those exclusive switch lites could tank.
 
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So I dont think ive seen anyone play this card yet in this thread at least, so im gonnanpull the trigger:

What if they just stopped making pokemon all together?

Lets face it: theyve been sitting on this for years, even before sun and moon. Morale has been shot, and it seems there wont be a satisfactory answer for anyone. So why not just end the series?

Ive been around these games for well over a decade. I remember all the complaints of pokemon never changing stuff up or breaking the mold. And yet people are furious for the game not continuing to drag every single concept along with whatever new thing they add to make the series fresh.

Right now, Nat Dex meta looks like a disaster, just on concept. "Lets bring megas, and z moves, and dynamax/gigantimax all together and try to balance everything!" "Man im so sick of lando on every team in every gen but dont you dare cut him from the game instg!" Its a paradox that im gonna assume comes from having the largest media fanbase in the world.

Whats my point? No matter what, a huge chunk of people are gonna be disappointed with whatever gamefreak does. So what if they just gave up? Would you rather have no game at all?
 
What if they just stopped making pokemon all together?
While you were talking about the Pokémon games, I've read this question in another way: what if they literally stopped making Pokémon? As in, stopped designing Pokémon altogether, bar from a very low number?

Let's say that in order to bring back all Pokémon in future games, the price would be cutting back on new Pokémon, like... by giving in each new generation only the starters, the regional rodents, the regional birds, the regional bugs, the Pikaclone and the legendaries, as well as around 20~ regional forms and 20~ formes of whatever gimmick they introduce.

Would people be happy if we got only 20~ new Pokémon and 40~ re-imaginations of old Pokémon in each future generation? I know there was quite the backlash back in XY because they introduced too little, but would you be willing to sacrifice the new just to give some new paint to the old?
 

trubbish

Banned deucer.
While you were talking about the Pokémon games, I've read this question in another way: what if they literally stopped making Pokémon? As in, stopped designing Pokémon altogether, bar from a very low number?

Let's say that in order to bring back all Pokémon in future games, the price would be cutting back on new Pokémon, like... by giving in each new generation only the starters, the regional rodents, the regional birds, the regional bugs, the Pikaclone and the legendaries, as well as around 20~ regional forms and 20~ formes of whatever gimmick they introduce.

Would people be happy if we got only 20~ new Pokémon and 40~ re-imaginations of old Pokémon in each future generation? I know there was quite the backlash back in XY because they introduced too little, but would you be willing to sacrifice the new just to give some new paint to the old?
No, people would be furious. People already complain about the amount we've been getting the passed few generations. Which is a bit contradictory given complaints about dexit, but thats getting into strawman territory so I'll leave it be.

I'd argue that new pokemon are as crucial to the series as old ones and I would prefer a game with more new pokemon than old. Thats just me, though.

So I dont think ive seen anyone play this card yet in this thread at least, so im gonnanpull the trigger:

What if they just stopped making pokemon all together?

Lets face it: theyve been sitting on this for years, even before sun and moon. Morale has been shot, and it seems there wont be a satisfactory answer for anyone. So why not just end the series?

Ive been around these games for well over a decade. I remember all the complaints of pokemon never changing stuff up or breaking the mold. And yet people are furious for the game not continuing to drag every single concept along with whatever new thing they add to make the series fresh.

Right now, Nat Dex meta looks like a disaster, just on concept. "Lets bring megas, and z moves, and dynamax/gigantimax all together and try to balance everything!" "Man im so sick of lando on every team in every gen but dont you dare cut him from the game instg!" Its a paradox that im gonna assume comes from having the largest media fanbase in the world.

Whats my point? No matter what, a huge chunk of people are gonna be disappointed with whatever gamefreak does. So what if they just gave up? Would you rather have no game at all?
I don't think they would ever stop the franchise... it makes too much money. But I would not mind if they scaled back the release schedule a little bit. No need to have a new game every year. Spread each one out. Take some more time to work on each one. Let us really delve into each title so we don't get burned out. Yearly or even bi-yearly releases are eventually going to bite them in the ass soon, imo.
 
So I dont think ive seen anyone play this card yet in this thread at least, so im gonnanpull the trigger:

What if they just stopped making pokemon all together?

Lets face it: theyve been sitting on this for years, even before sun and moon. Morale has been shot, and it seems there wont be a satisfactory answer for anyone. So why not just end the series?

Ive been around these games for well over a decade. I remember all the complaints of pokemon never changing stuff up or breaking the mold. And yet people are furious for the game not continuing to drag every single concept along with whatever new thing they add to make the series fresh.

Right now, Nat Dex meta looks like a disaster, just on concept. "Lets bring megas, and z moves, and dynamax/gigantimax all together and try to balance everything!" "Man im so sick of lando on every team in every gen but dont you dare cut him from the game instg!" Its a paradox that im gonna assume comes from having the largest media fanbase in the world.

Whats my point? No matter what, a huge chunk of people are gonna be disappointed with whatever gamefreak does. So what if they just gave up? Would you rather have no game at all?
While you were talking about the Pokémon games, I've read this question in another way: what if they literally stopped making Pokémon? As in, stopped designing Pokémon altogether, bar from a very low number?

Let's say that in order to bring back all Pokémon in future games, the price would be cutting back on new Pokémon, like... by giving in each new generation only the starters, the regional rodents, the regional birds, the regional bugs, the Pikaclone and the legendaries, as well as around 20~ regional forms and 20~ formes of whatever gimmick they introduce.

Would people be happy if we got only 20~ new Pokémon and 40~ re-imaginations of old Pokémon in each future generation? I know there was quite the backlash back in XY because they introduced too little, but would you be willing to sacrifice the new just to give some new paint to the old?
I honestly don’t think they need to introduce any new Pokémon. If there’s anything special about Dexit, it’s that every Pokémon is special to someone. They have literally 800+ characters, and could easily make new games with old Pokémon and it still could be strategic. Since every Pokémon has a cult following, I’m sure they would be fine with no new Pokémon as long as all 809 are in the game. By removing the time required to design Pokémon, they instead could focus on things like Difficulty or better post game to name a few.
 
No, people would be furious. People already complain about the amount we've been getting the passed few generations. Which is a bit contradictory given complaints about dexit, but thats getting into strawman territory so I'll leave it be.

I'd argue that new pokemon are as crucial to the series as old ones and I would prefer a game with more new pokemon than old. Thats just me, though.



I don't think they would ever stop the franchise... it makes too much money. But I would not mind if they scaled back the release schedule a little bit. No need to have a new game every year. Spread each one out. Take some more time to work on each one. Let us really delve into each title so we don't get burned out. Yearly or even bi-yearly releases are eventually going to bite them in the ass soon, imo.
We already went theough great lengths on how thats not possible.
I honestly don’t think they need to introduce any new Pokémon. If there’s anything special about Dexit, it’s that every Pokémon is special to someone. They have literally 800+ characters, and could easily make new games with old Pokémon and it still could be strategic. Since every Pokémon has a cult following, I’m sure they would be fine with no new Pokémon as long as all 809 are in the game. By removing the time required to design Pokémon, they instead could focus on things like Difficulty or better post game to name a few.
Also not possible, especially after dexit
Just imagine the nightmare:"a brand new region with all your old faves! A new gen but all oldies!" No, much like yugioh, yokai watch, and every other monster themed franchises, new creatures are the absolute lifeforce of the series. Hell, gen 5 was panned because it originally had all new stuff, imagine a gen of nothing but old news and regional variants...
 
We already went theough great lengths on how thats not possible.

Also not possible, especially after dexit
Just imagine the nightmare:"a brand new region with all your old faves! A new gen but all oldies!" No, much like yugioh, yokai watch, and every other monster themed franchises, new creatures are the absolute lifeforce of the series. Hell, gen 5 was panned because it originally had all new stuff, imagine a gen of nothing but old news and regional variants...
If that’s the case, then how come always focus on Kanto always get the most attention in new games? And also, when was Gen 5 panned for only new Pokémon? I understand it was surprising, but Gen 5 was very well received from when I look back at now.
 

trubbish

Banned deucer.
We already went theough great lengths on how thats not possible.

Also not possible, especially after dexit
Just imagine the nightmare:"a brand new region with all your old faves! A new gen but all oldies!" No, much like yugioh, yokai watch, and every other monster themed franchises, new creatures are the absolute lifeforce of the series. Hell, gen 5 was panned because it originally had all new stuff, imagine a gen of nothing but old news and regional variants...
The Sun and Moon anime debuted Nov. 17th 2016 and concluded Nov. 3rd 2019. Thats almost 3 years. In that time we had TWO other mainline releases in Lets Go and USUM. The anime and manga and merchandise will be fine if they cull the yearly release schedule.
 
I honestly don’t think they need to introduce any new Pokémon. If there’s anything special about Dexit, it’s that every Pokémon is special to someone. They have literally 800+ characters, and could easily make new games with old Pokémon and it still could be strategic. Since every Pokémon has a cult following, I’m sure they would be fine with no new Pokémon as long as all 809 are in the game. By removing the time required to design Pokémon, they instead could focus on things like Difficulty or better post game to name a few.
My favorite part of a new generation is new pokemon. And I’m sure plenty of other people share this opinion
 
The Sun and Moon anime debuted Nov. 17th 2016 and concluded Nov. 3rd 2019. Thats almost 3 years. In that time we had TWO other mainline releases in Lets Go and USUM. The anime and manga and merchandise will be fine if they cull the yearly release schedule.
Thats another entite year of both anime padding and an entire format worth of cards in the tcg. Very important to note that in the tcg, cards rotate out of play, and by that time cards used in the beginning of the gen, usually the very staples of a new meta, would start to be cycled out. Thats...very unreasonable.
 
Thats another entite year of both anime padding and an entire format worth of cards in the tcg. Very important to note that in the tcg, cards rotate out of play, and by that time cards used in the beginning of the gen, usually the very staples of a new meta, would start to be cycled out. Thats...very unreasonable.
There's nothing that says the games HAVE to come out before everything else. Hell, the anime has been teasing next-gen Pokemon ever since the first episode.
 
So theres lots of discussion about dexit and how GF and TPC figured out how to maximize their marginal benefit and minimize their marginal costs. Everyone can probably agree on this with the new $60 price tag and over half of dex cut and less than desirable graphics. Check check and check...what I wanted to move forward with was what an acceptable level of satisfaction or benefit would justify buying the games from a consumer perspective? What would make the price tag forgivable?

Like suppose 500 or 600 made it instead? Do you need all 809? More polished graphics? Trade dynamax back for megas/z crystals? An actual post game incorporating previous gens (akin to GSC)? So much opportunity gone and wasted for pathetic reasons.

Sadly I'm back on the fence after reviewing leaks nor am impressed with d max. I cant recreate my old teams which is a huge letdown. For now im just gonna wait for reviews and for showdown to implement the new metas.

Speak with your wallet!
 
Let's say that in order to bring back all Pokémon in future games, the price would be cutting back on new Pokémon, like... by giving in each new generation only the starters, the regional rodents, the regional birds, the regional bugs, the Pikaclone and the legendaries, as well as around 20~ regional forms and 20~ formes of whatever gimmick they introduce.
Well this definitely part of the problem, who in blazes cares one bit about the regional rodents, the regional birds, the regional bugs or the pikaclones?
sincerely who cares one bit about the pikaclones? I've never meet one single fan, casual or hardcore, that actually cares about any of the pikaclones? They certainly don't sell, in all my years I've never seen 1 child owning any merchandise with a pikaclone except in a pattern featuring miscellaneous pokemon
even if we count Mimikyu as a pikaclone, that one of 6 attempts that's been successful and that if we pretend Togedemaru isn't alola's pikaclone

Also the gimmick haven't been well received, the Mega ring didn't sell that well and casual fans tend to ignore the gimmicks in-game

But we are getting sidetracked, the point is that if a franchise keeps telling its customers to get attached to their pokemon and even announce a whole service dedicated to transferring those pokemon, not including those pokemon in a game is akin to selling a a yearround pass to Disneyland
that's only good for 7 months, it's deceitful, misleading to costumers and erodes trust in the sellers and their product


no one in the world has ever played pokemon for its graphics, and comparing it to console games is apples to oranges.
Is almost as if the Switch was a console or as if The Legend of Zelda had released several handheld titles etc. etc. also Arlo


So what if they just gave up? Would you rather have no game at all?
In practice whether I can't use my pokemon because there are no more installments or because future games don't let me use them it's the same to me,
The only difference is Gamefreak isn't shitting on my plate and claiming is chocolate pudding with Home

so it's the same except I don't get my intelligence insulted if they just ended
 
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Is it OK for me to drop the fact that GF has not given Japanese players formal announcement about Dexit?

HOME aren't likely to appear until next year, which means sales are likely to be standing high enough because many people do not know about Dexit yet.
But as pokemon_cojp in Twitter announced, they canceled the game release event in one of Tokyo PokeCen out of "operational reason", it is also reasonable to know that a lot of the playerbase (particularly those who have stayed long enough) are aware of the situation.
People seem to also have debates on dexit, with some denying, saying it can't be helped, or hope they'll make an update for including the rest.

... dude be running. They're in damage control mode right now.


Overall, I'm in disbelief that GF TPC is taking this path. I still can't believe my own eyes.
It is the way they handle this that really... makes me sad....
 
Well this definitely part of the problem, who in blazes cares one bit about the regional rodents, the regional birds, the regional bugs or the pikaclones?
sincerely who cares one bit about the pikaclones? I've never meet one single fan, casual or hardcore, that actually cares about any of the pikaclones? They certainly don't sell, in all my years I've never seen 1 child owning any merchandise with a pikaclone except in a pattern featuring miscellaneous pokemon
even if we count Mimikyu as a pikaclone, that one of 6 attempts that's been successful and that if we pretend Togedemaru isn't alola's pikaclone

Also the gimmick haven't been well received, the Meg ring didn't sell that well and casual fans tend to ignore the gimmicks in-game

But we are getting sidetracked, the point is that if a franchise keeps telling its customers to get attached to their pokemon and even announce a whole service dedicated to transferring those pokemon, not including those pokemon in a game is akin to selling a a yearround pass to Disneyland
that's only good for 7 months, it's deceitful, misleading to costumers and erodes trust in the sellers and their product



Is almost as if the Switch was a console or as if The Legend of Zelda had released several handheld titles etc. etc. also Arlo



In practice whether I can't use my pokemon because there are no more installments or because future games don't let me use them it's the same to me,
The only difference is Gamefreak isn't shitting on my plate and claiming is chocolate pudding with Home

so it's the same except I don't get my intelligence insulted if they just ended
Well Pachirsu one worlds 2014. And Togedemary has a valuable niche in vgc, myself included.
 
People are pretty big fans of Togedemaru, there’s plenty of fans of it in the PU/NU sphere with it as their PFP. Just because you don’t like the regional birds or whatever (lol thinking people don’t care about corviknight or talonflame, even toucannon has the funny “it’s a gun” meme screencap from the anime) doesn’t mean you can project it on the entire fan base. Regional bugs have also been well received since gen 5, rodents are really the only “unpopular” group left
 
Fair enough, does their merchandise sell? because from a marketing perspective that's what matters

of course if we're talking about popularity among fans, well every pokemon has its fans
why one could argue cutting off pokemon could only upset your more loyal and most likely biggest costumers and endanger their continued patronage
 
Fair enough, does their merchandise sell? because from a marketing perspective that's what matters

of course if we're talking about popularity among fans, well every pokemon has its fans
why one could argue cutting off pokemon could only upset your more loyal and most likely biggest costumers and endanger their continued patronage
I’d argue a transfer-only pokemon is about as marketable as a locked out pokemon- that is, not much (and it being out of the game doesn’t suddenly make it not someone’s favorite), hence why they focus on making new stuff and forms to sell merch
 

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