Dexit discussion thread

I can see why. Town wasn't recieved very well, and more people than ever are angry at Pokemon. They split their resources to pursue something new, and not only did that new thing not pan out, but the decision to split in the first place likely contributed to Dexit, which could potentially be a permanent stain on their golden goose. If I fucked up that hard, I would be depressed as shit too.

On the one hand, I feel bad for them, because they were punished for trying to do what they wanted to do. On the other hand, Pokemon is one of the goldenest geese around, so any decision that puts it in jeopardy is, from a business perspective, unimaginabley idiotic.
 
It's a testament to how powerful Pokemon is as a franchise that GF can do pretty much anything and Pokemon will still sell.
 
I can see why. Town wasn't recieved very well, and more people than ever are angry at Pokemon. They split their resources to pursue something new, and not only did that new thing not pan out, but the decision to split in the first place likely contributed to Dexit, which could potentially be a permanent stain on their golden goose. If I fucked up that hard, I would be depressed as shit too.

On the one hand, I feel bad for them, because they were punished for trying to do what they wanted to do. On the other hand, Pokemon is one of the goldenest geese around, so any decision that puts it in jeopardy is, from a business perspective, unimaginabley idiotic.
It feels like a lose-lose, cuz a delay is arguably even worse from a business perspective, if preferable for fans (at least in retrospect). A delay is missing out a lot of potential cash in exchange for recapturing an insignificant fraction of lost buyers from dexit.

Town was done by a separate team at GF, I assume it’s moreso fan outrage hurting the SwSh devs in particular
 
It feels like a lose-lose, cuz a delay is arguably even worse from a business perspective, if preferable for fans (at least in retrospect). A delay is missing out a lot of potential cash in exchange for recapturing an insignificant fraction of lost buyers from dexit.

Town was done by a separate team at GF, I assume it’s moreso fan outrage hurting the SwSh devs in particular
A game delay is nearly impossible with all of the moving parts. There's an anime that'd need a filler season, a TCG set that'd be delayed, a manga that'd extend its current arc, a small country's worth of merchandise that'd be put on hold...
 
I can’t watch the podcast right now, what is it about?
The latest games of video from the staff of Vice, also news

It feels like a lose-lose, cuz a delay is arguably even worse from a business perspective, if preferable for fans (at least in retrospect). A delay is missing out a lot of potential cash in exchange for recapturing an insignificant fraction of lost buyers from dexit.
See that's what the staff Assassin's Creed kept doing, and it ended in a drop in quality, sales and goodwill from the fans
it pays on the short term but long term ends up being a huge mistake (see also Yo-Kai Watch, NBA Jam among others)
 
Also, I'm pretty sure Gamefreak didn't do this because they're incompetent or lazy or whatever people are saying. It had to happen eventually, and they probably figured the jump to the Switch was a good time to establish "not all Pokemon are usable in any given game" as the new standard going forward.
And why did they figure that the jump to Switch would be the best time for it? Because they're spreading their attention to other games and want to invest less in the core Pokemon series?

Just saying that they "figured it would be a good time" does not make it a good time nor does it support their decision. The jump to the Switch is a terrible time to start investing less effort in the games:
- The Switch is more powerful so people will expect more. Giving them less instead is a double disspointment for fans.
- The Switch has great beautiful games like BotW and Odyssey which SwSh will likely be compared with due to it being on the same concole.
- The games are more expensive due to them being console games. The games becoming more expensive is not something that's going to put people in the mood to accept a cut of content and an obvious decrease of effort put into the development of the games.

and then some guy says that this one tree looks ugly.
- It's not just that single tree, it's the whole game. That tree is just an example of the poor graphics that players will be seeing throughtout the whole game, if the demo's are anything we can go off of (and if not then why did they show them?).
- It's not just one guy, a lot of people agree that N64 quality graphics on a Switch game is subpar.
- It's not just them saying, it's them showing. You can view the graphics (including the tree) for yourself.
 
- The games are more expensive due to being a console game. The core games becoming more expensive is not something that's going to put people in the mood to accept a cut of content and an obvious decrease of effort put in the game by the developers.
I would iterate on this and it's one of the points I do agree the most on.

Moving to Switch also meant moving the games to the 60 € price tag of other Switch AAA titles.

Unfortunately for GF, a price tag needs to also match other games with same price's quality.
If they wanted to get away with less quality, they shouldn't ask the same price.

Backlash would probably have been lesser if they stuck with the 40ish€ tag of the 3DS games.


Unfortunately, it's not just "the OOT tree" or "Dexit", it's just a lot of little and big things toghether. Probably too many toghether.
Several of those issues have been stacking for years, a breaking point would have been inevitable at some point.
 
Oh shit that last one explains the Unova bias. I dislike most Unova mons, so many of them are only "underrated" because they are just plain badly designed. And the ones I really loved? Volcarona, Lurantis, Archeops, Eelektross, Scolipede just gone. Not a single one of my top 10 favourites made it through. They snapped all the cool bugs, all the UBs, so many actually underrated mons like Aggron. I've grown up with mons, I literally learned to read with a poster of the first 151, and I was ready to buy a switch just for Gen 8, but this is where it ends. The franchise has died to me and I'll stick to playing ADV-based romhacks and competitive RBY.
 
A game delay is nearly impossible with all of the moving parts. There's an anime that'd need a filler season, a TCG set that'd be delayed, a manga that'd extend its current arc, a small country's worth of merchandise that'd be put on hold...
A Home delay, however, is a perfectly viable option. Work on NatDex, and then release Home when it's done -- it's not as though it matters until Home releases anyway.
 
A game delay is nearly impossible with all of the moving parts. There's an anime that'd need a filler season, a TCG set that'd be delayed, a manga that'd extend its current arc, a small country's worth of merchandise that'd be put on hold...
Yeah, this is the big problem - they simply can't take more time to do things because of the significant money loss they'd suffer.

I know we are working with the benefit of hindsight, but I think the solution would have been:
- Develop Pokémon Stars for the Switch instead of Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon as initially rumored. Or maybe even develop Sun and Moon themselves for the Switch and delay its release date to February 2017 (it would have been a Killer App for the console alongside Breath of the Wild; it surprises me that Nintendo has never even tried that)
- Treat Let's Go as a proper spin-off and outsource it to another company
- And this way they'd only have Sword and Shield, and Little Town Hero to take care of. With Pokémon Stars, they'd have all the foundations of a Pokémon game present, making Sword and Shield's development easier.

But this is a TPC issue rather than a GF issue. At this point I can even imagine a exchange like this one:

GF: "Boss, we don't think we can make Sword and Shield on time for the planned release date"
TPC: "What's the problem?"
GF: "Programming all the Pokémon, their Dynamax and Gigantamax models and their animations for Pokémon Camp is proving time-consuming. I don't think we can include them all in time---"
TPC: "Then remove some of them. Now go back to work"
 
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Why are we assuming "Game freak tried to update all of the pokemon models and animations, but ran out of time and had to settle for Dexit :(" is correct? From their interviews it seems much more likely to me that they started working on the game with the dex cut as a conscious design decision. If that's what happened it's pointless to expect a patch or DLC. The only hope is that the backlash was sufficient for them to revert their design philosophy. Do we think gen 9 is already in development?
 
Why are we assuming "Game freak tried to update all of the pokemon models and animations, but ran out of time and had to settle for Dexit :(" is correct? From their interviews it seems much more likely to me that they started working on the game with the dex cut as a conscious design decision. If that's what happened it's pointless to expect a patch or DLC. The only hope is that the backlash was sufficient for them to revert their design philosophy. Do we think gen 9 is already in development?
I believe it's been confirmed that it is.
 
The quality of Pokemon games has been in sharp decline since gen 6 IMO
I'm hoping that dexit is the final straw that forces Nintendo and Pokemon company to reprioritise the games, I'll be waiting for reviews and impressions from others before buying, if it doesn't look right I'll hold off. I encourage everyone else to do the same
 
Why are we assuming "Game freak tried to update all of the pokemon models and animations, but ran out of time and had to settle for Dexit :(" is correct? From their interviews it seems much more likely to me that they started working on the game with the dex cut as a conscious design decision. If that's what happened it's pointless to expect a patch or DLC. The only hope is that the backlash was sufficient for them to revert their design philosophy. Do we think gen 9 is already in development?
I believe it's been confirmed that it is.
Honestly, at this point, I wouldn't even know which of the 2 is true.

One of the effects of changing version every 2 interview is that none of the versions becomes believable.
 

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Why are we assuming "Game freak tried to update all of the pokemon models and animations, but ran out of time and had to settle for Dexit :(" is correct? From their interviews it seems much more likely to me that they started working on the game with the dex cut as a conscious design decision. If that's what happened it's pointless to expect a patch or DLC. The only hope is that the backlash was sufficient for them to revert their design philosophy.
Because no matter the reason, you don't say that you ran out of time, it would sound like you are not in control. You have to tell everybody that it was a thoughful choice.

And if it ever happens, reverting back to the full dex won't be an admission of weakness. It will be justified by the different context in which they will develop the future games, but dexit would still be referred as a necessity of that time.

But they will never be wrong, they are in control.
 

trubbish

Banned deucer.
I hope that, when the reviews come out, that dexit does not end up distracting reviewers from the game's real issues.
Yeah, Game Freak could re-add all the Pokemon in a future game or patch or whatever. But that will not, for me, intrinsically make the games better. I want better games, not necessarily more Pokemon. Maybe that is controversial, I do not know. But I like playing good games.

Uh, of course its hard to predict how the game itself will be when it releases. But here I am speaking just on what game freak has chosen to show us. I have yet to see a single screen shot or trailer that actually impresses or excites me yet.

I mean look at this
1573228622868.png

This is a real screenshot from a game made in 2019 on the Nintendo Switch for the biggest media franchise on the planet.

I dont want to sound too negative but I also do not want Game Freak to be like 'look we fixed it' by just porting the rest of the pokemon's models and calling it a day.
 
I hope that, when the reviews come out, that dexit does not end up distracting reviewers from the game's real issues.
Yeah, Game Freak could re-add all the Pokemon in a future game or patch or whatever. But that will not, for me, intrinsically make the games better. I want better games, not necessarily more Pokemon. Maybe that is controversial, I do not know. But I like playing good games.

Uh, of course its hard to predict how the game itself will be when it releases. But here I am speaking just on what game freak has chosen to show us. I have yet to see a single screen shot or trailer that actually impresses or excites me yet.

I mean look at this
View attachment 204587
This is a real screenshot from a game made in 2019 on the Nintendo Switch for the biggest media franchise on the planet.

I dont want to sound too negative but I also do not want Game Freak to be like 'look we fixed it' by just porting the rest of the pokemon's models and calling it a day.
But that would depend on the player's priorities on a game.

Someone could say "they remove more than half the dex and they don't bother to make the game better-looking" like you do, but someone could say "I couldn't care less about graphics; apart from the Dexit the game seems to be actually quite good... which makes the feeling about the Dexit worse", like I do.
 
"I couldn't care less about graphics; apart from the Dexit the game seems to be actually quite good... which makes the feeling about the Dexit worse"
I think you pretty much nailed it. A huge part of the appeal of Pokemon is the endless selection of characters to choose from. It gives the games virtually limitless replay whether you play casual or competitive. The cross gen connectivity makes Pokemon games unique next to other RPGs and is a huge reason why these games hold their value for decades. Halo 3 is 5 dollars now, Pokemon Diamond is still 35 bucks.

Dexit takes a massive chunk of Pokémon's appeal and throws it in the trash. Who cares about individual Pokemon anymore if they can be locked in a game forever? Why pay for a 60 dollar switch game with an additional 20 dollar charge for multiplayer when I can just pay 40 for USUM to get about twice as much content?

Tldr dexit shows gamefreak is either unaware of, or doesn't care about what the fans love from the series. We can't even pretend this is good competitively dexit also purged half of the tiers. Don't claim the meta will be balanced lol, not when Dynamax exists.
 
Well... this is a pretty neat discussion but in the end... are you going to buy this game or not???? I personally think that I'm not going to spend that much money on a game that will make me feel sad about losing a huge bunch of my favourite mons, especially when I could go to showdown and play without basically any restrictions... so, maybe we should stick to make them feel our disappoint and make a difference in the sales department which is what really matters for Nintendo/Game Freak...
 

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