Dexit discussion thread


This is video around from when Dexit was first announced. It good look onto the "deeper" ideals from GF and TPC, and its from a generally non-Pokemon channel, so there's no Pokemon Fan Bias. I had it posted on SwSh thread earlier, but that was long time ago. Don't take everything so seriously on it, but it does provide some strong points on Pokemon's buisness model.

Now I wouldn't go far as to say that they don't care about their games, though I do agree that money is the primary goal. We've already know that Pokémon makes a ton of money from the merchandise-see here. As we can see, the merchandise makes the most of the money-the games actually make significantly less money when compared to merchandising. This goes back to the games featuring and introducing brand new Pokemon, as well as new forms of Kanto- People will buy them off nostalgia- I looked up Charizard on the Pokemon Center and found 30 pages worth of results-I looked up Salamence and only found 3 results. Of course, it also has something to do with GF constantly putting Charizard everywhere- which brings up a second point: Pokemon is so rich to the point that GameFreak could just retire and give up the franchise to some other company. In fact, if anything, the games can be considered a leisure project, in other words they can do whatever they want. Even if SwSh were to fail, it would not doom the Pokemon Franchise- merchandise from based on SwSh would undoutbly sell, powering up the revenue of main money merchandise. They aren't listening to fans or putting more effort because they don't have to, as the guy concludes, the majority of Pokemon sales comes from the merchandising. In contrast, if you look at Mario- most of its money comes from video games, that's why games like Odyssey had to step up mechanics, gameplay, and graphics significantly- A super Mario game failing would significantly hurt more than a Pokemon game failing for there respective franchise.

In conclusion, the key to solving Dexit is to boycott merchandise, not the games, since the merchandise is where the money comes from, not the games.
 
If DP get remakes and they have *anything* not in the Galar dex in them (which is 100% guaranteed), those games would be required to play in VGC. Same deal as with ORAS and the new megas.
And I doubt that they wouldn't include the data from everything already in SwSh
 
Man, your post sounded so correct it hurt me :\

Albeith i doubt GF have any "malicious" aim about sabotating anything, the fact that they don't have to listen to playerbase because it hardly matters is something I brought up in the past. Plus, the supercasual playerbase is so huge that the games will *still* sell and have positive monetary results anyway.
 

trubbish

Banned deucer.

This is video around from when Dexit was first announced. It good look onto the "deeper" ideals from GF and TPC, and its from a generally non-Pokemon channel, so there's no Pokemon Fan Bias. I had it posted on SwSh thread earlier, but that was long time ago. Don't take everything so seriously on it, but it does provide some strong points on Pokemon's buisness model.

Now I wouldn't go far as to say that they don't care about their games, though I do agree that money is the primary goal. We've already know that Pokémon makes a ton of money from the merchandise-see here. As we can see, the merchandise makes the most of the money-the games actually make significantly less money when compared to merchandising. This goes back to the games featuring and introducing brand new Pokemon, as well as new forms of Kanto- People will buy them off nostalgia- I looked up Charizard on the Pokemon Center and found 30 pages worth of results-I looked up Salamence and only found 3 results. Of course, it also has something to do with GF constantly putting Charizard everywhere- which brings up a second point: Pokemon is so rich to the point that GameFreak could just retire and give up the franchise to some other company. In fact, if anything, the games can be considered a leisure project, in other words they can do whatever they want. Even if SwSh were to fail, it would not doom the Pokemon Franchise- merchandise from based on SwSh would undoutbly sell, powering up the revenue of main money merchandise. They aren't listening to fans or putting more effort because they don't have to, as the guy concludes, the majority of Pokemon sales comes from the merchandising. In contrast, if you look at Mario- most of its money comes from video games, that's why games like Odyssey had to step up mechanics, gameplay, and graphics significantly- A super Mario game failing would significantly hurt more than a Pokemon game failing for there respective franchise.

In conclusion, the key to solving Dexit is to boycott merchandise, not the games, since the merchandise is where the money comes from, not the games.
The problem in this case might not even be Game Freak, but The Pokemon Company. people always say 'Pokemon is the highest grossing media franchise on earth, why do the games look like they have less budget than an indie title?" And its very possible that they do have a significantly cut budget. If sales of merchandise is what drives the franchise, it stands to reason i guess that TPCI would pour more resources into the anime/mobile games/movies that appeal to the widest audience as possible. And even though the games do make up a significant chunk of the revenue, I do wonder if TPCI actually goes in with the 'they'll buy it anyway' mentality.
 
The problem in this case might not even be Game Freak, but The Pokemon Company. people always say 'Pokemon is the highest grossing media franchise on earth, why do the games look like they have less budget than an indie title?" And its very possible that they do have a significantly cut budget. If sales of merchandise is what drives the franchise, it stands to reason i guess that TPCI would pour more resources into the anime/mobile games/movies that appeal to the widest audience as possible. And even though the games do make up a significant chunk of the revenue, I do wonder if TPCI actually goes in with the 'they'll buy it anyway' mentality.
Game Freak would not be totally innocent, though.

We know from them that they started developing Sword and Shield in 2016. We can also assume that Ultra Sun, Ultra Moon and the Let's Go games must have started development around that date.

That means that for as much as a third of the development cycle their potential workforce for Sword and Shield was significantly diminished due to USUM and LPGE. And it does not seem that the Game Freak guys raised their hands and said "Look, if you want us to do all these things at once then we cannot deliver Sword and Shield with as much quality as we could. Either give us some time, or put others in charge of these other two projects."

And yes, I'm aware that Game Freak hired more employees... but it doesn't work that way. They had to spend valuable time training the new employees in their technologies and processes. At this point, I prefer to think it's some weird japanese custom instead of plain poor planning.
 
Last edited:
On Showdown or in general... 'cus it apparently sold over 11 mil copies worldwide according to Nintendo. (More copies than USUM, less than every other title released since XY)
Apparently that's because the west bought it more than Japan. By seeing social media comments posts, yeah it makes sense. Blind consumerism and mocking those who don't agree with their purchase, that makes their capitalist lives a little better.

Anyway, yeah, dexit is bad. Splits the fanbase, destroys something that was standard for a long time. We were able to transfer from gen 1 to gen 2 with backward compatibility, (which was really ground breaking, thanks Iwata) and all the generations past that with transferring up, it set that standard. Even generation three, who yes had technical limitations, still had the pokemon in code. You just had buy several games to do so, but it was possible.

Paid DLC patches for old pokemon will be the final nail in the coffin. You already have shady business like mew with the pokeball, paying for online, paying for bank, and paying for home. It was so easy to slip additional costs under fans noses that TPC would make blizzard/EA/konami blush.

I'm so tired of people who think that cut pokemon is a good thing. It does not matter if its "better" for whatever absurd, mental gymnastics reasoning they have, they cut pokemon, they can cut anything they want. Show them they can't do that.
 
Last edited:

trubbish

Banned deucer.
Apparently that's because the west bought it more than Japan. By seeing social media comments posts, yeah it makes sense. Blind consumerism and mocking those who don't agree with their purchase, that makes their capitalist lives a little better.

Anyway, yeah, dexit is bad. Splits the fanbase, destroys something that was standard for a long time. We were able to transfer from gen 1 to gen 2 with backward compatibility, (which was really ground breaking, thanks Iwata) and all the generations past that with transferring up, it set that standard. Even generation three, who yes had technical limitations, still had the pokemon in code. You just had buy several games to do so, but it was possible.

Paid DLC patches for old pokemon will be the final nail in the coffin. You already have shady business like mew with the pokeball, paying for online, paying for bank, and paying for home. It was so easy to slip additional costs under fans noses that TPC would make blizzard/EA/konami blush.

I'm so tired of people who think that cut pokemon is a good thing. It does not matter if its "better" for whatever absurd, mental gymnastics reasoning they have, they cut pokemon, they can cut anything they want. Show them they can't do that.
Question. What did you think would happen when we reached 1,000 pokemon? 2,000? 5,000? It is impossible to sustain an ever-growing amount of content for your video game. A dexcut had to happen eventually. Either that or they just flat out stop making new pokemon, which is not the timeline I prefer.

That said they definitely could've approached this better. As someone mentioned above, the ambiguity of Pokemon Bank also does not help their cause. Pokemon Bank could (read: should) be a hub where players can put their pokemon from any game and actually have a use for them. Have a battle tower or such facility, contests, pokemon-amie, other types of challenges. The announcement was also really poor, they should've had it in a direct-style video where they explain the decision instead of it just being on a stream. And most importantly, they should've made the rest of the game good. If SW/SH looked like it was gonna be the 'Breath of the Wild' for pokemon- with interesting new game mechanics and actually appealing graphics- I feel like many people would be much more forgiving.
 
Question. What did you think would happen when we reached 1,000 pokemon? 2,000? 5,000? It is impossible to sustain an ever-growing amount of content for your video game. A dexcut had to happen eventually. Either that or they just flat out stop making new pokemon, which is not the timeline I prefer.

That said they definitely could've approached this better. As someone mentioned above, the ambiguity of Pokemon Bank also does not help their cause. Pokemon Bank could (read: should) be a hub where players can put their pokemon from any game and actually have a use for them. Have a battle tower or such facility, contests, pokemon-amie, other types of challenges. The announcement was also really poor, they should've had it in a direct-style video where they explain the decision instead of it just being on a stream. And most importantly, they should've made the rest of the game good. If SW/SH looked like it was gonna be the 'Breath of the Wild' for pokemon- with interesting new game mechanics and actually appealing graphics- I feel like many people would be much more forgiving.
Well what you've said about dexit in the beginning can be summed up as what you've said: they could have handled this a lot better. Yes in maybe another decade they will reach critical mass, but we have evidence that pokemon models do not take up space, these models are in fact future proof, and they could handle it. The problem, is that gamefreak has several projects going on at once, THAT is the thing that people need to understand too. It's not that the game/technology cannot handle, it's the time constraints. That being said pokemon themselves should always be 100% of the priority, with the story, postgame, and side activities as secondary. But from the looks of it they did not prioritize either one.

Also Gamefreak does not help the bloating they only make it worse. Did drednaw need a pre evolution? Did all the legendaries need new forms? They just keep adding to the number more and more for things that are just unnecessary.
 
What's wrong with prevos? They allow players to catch a weak Pokemon early in the game, then for that Pokemon to get stronger later in the game.
They bloat the number of pokemon by a large amount. Especially when you have single stage non-evolving pokemon. You can catch an absol, or kangaskhan fairly early on. They make sense for things like starters, birds, psuedo for just a few examples. But making a tiny turtle for drednaw of course sells merchandise cause it's cute, but it does not help the increasing number of pokemon.
 

trubbish

Banned deucer.
Well what you've said about dexit in the beginning can be summed up as what you've said: they could have handled this a lot better. Yes in maybe another decade they will reach critical mass, but we have evidence that pokemon models do not take up space, these models are in fact future proof, and they could handle it. The problem, is that gamefreak has several projects going on at once, THAT is the thing that people need to understand too. It's not that the game/technology cannot handle, it's the time constraints. That being said pokemon themselves should always be 100% of the priority, with the story, postgame, and side activities as secondary. But from the looks of it they did not prioritize either one.

Also Gamefreak does not help the bloating they only make it worse. Did drednaw need a pre evolution? Did all the legendaries need new forms? They just keep adding to the number more and more for things that are just unnecessary.
Pokemon models do take up space, everything takes up space. Even if they are future proof. Besides, I'd rather have 200 GOOD, new models vs. 800+ models that look like garbage because they are future-proofed to be used in every game for the next 20 years. Even then, time-constraints are a big part of development.

I also disagree that the Pokemon themselves should be 100% of the priority. If thats the case then just make a glorified pokedex tomagatchi and ditch everything else. But what it really comes down to is what different people value in the games. I'd take a good game with only 400 Pokemon over a bad one with 1,000+.

Though, we aren't getting either. Which is why im salty. But I do not think the dexcut is necessarily always a bad thing.
 
Where is this paid DLC claim coming from? I remember that it says that the game offers in-game purchase on the shop page but that’s just for buying Nintendo online in-game if you don’t already have it iirc
Mew + Pokeball in Lets Go Eevee / Pika.

20 dollar per year to access online features.

5 per year for Pokemon bank

? for Pokemon Home

60 dollars for Dynamax Eevee / Pika

Shiny Solageo / bat event only accessible if you download an app.

Multiple other events that require download codes only accessible by going to select retailers.


It really isn't a big stretch to see Gamefreak charging for dlc content in the future especially with dexit basically making that paid content low effort. 1.99 for 100 extra Pokemon sounds pretty reasonable right?
 
The problem with introducing them as optional DLC is that you then have to lock them out of online use or stop the person who bought the DLC from playing with anyone who doesn't have it. That problem is compounded with multiple batches, where only people with the exact same configuration can battle.
Or they just allow you to battle other players who have the DLC even if you yourself don't.
 
The problem with introducing them as optional DLC is that you then have to lock them out of online use or stop the person who bought the DLC from playing with anyone who doesn't have it. That problem is compounded with multiple batches, where only people with the exact same configuration can battle.
We already are locked out of online without paying for nintendo wifi lol.

Nothing is stopping them from letting me play online just because I don't have Fire Pokemon DLC or whatever. My Pikachu can fight a Volcarona just because I can't catch one.
 
Mew + Pokeball in Lets Go Eevee / Pika.

20 dollar per year to access online features.

5 per year for Pokemon bank

? for Pokemon Home

60 dollars for Dynamax Eevee / Pika

Shiny Solageo / bat event only accessible if you download an app.

Multiple other events that require download codes only accessible by going to select retailers.


It really isn't a big stretch to see Gamefreak charging for dlc content in the future especially with dexit basically making that paid content low effort. 1.99 for 100 extra Pokemon sounds pretty reasonable right?
We have confirmation that a dlc option was noticed, we have no confirmation that any dlc they will offer will be paid, it's probably just an open ended menu for future plans, they're going to be supporting this game for at least a year with new stuff and this is the first pokemon game where they can, potentially, add in shit as they go.
 
We have confirmation that a dlc option was noticed, we have no confirmation that any dlc they will offer will be paid, it's probably just an open ended menu for future plans, they're going to be supporting this game for at least a year with new stuff and this is the first pokemon game where they can, potentially, add in shit as they go.
Yeah like paying for more Pokemon. They left the path to paid dlc clear in front of them. I hope it doesn't happen but I really wouldn't be surprised.
 
I imagine paid Pokemon DLC would be more of "pay 1.99 for the ice pack and 25 new ice type Pokemon will appear in the wild zone". Technically no need for Pokemon Home unless you're transferring.
....eh I wouldn't be too pissy about that, but I'm 25 with a job so I can understand why that would be like a huge deal breaker for younger fans.
 
....eh I wouldn't be too pissy about that, but I'm 25 with a job so I can understand why that would be like a huge deal breaker for younger fans.
I think I would be less upset if it was an indie game studio or one that relies on income from dlc to fund more dlc but... Pokemon is the most profitable video game franchise ever. There's no reason for dlc other than greed.

That said yeah lol I would probably buy it.
 
idk why anyone is calling gamefreak lazy or greedy. The cutting of the pokedex is obviously a very calculated product decision; they're not going to just remove 400 pokemon for no reason. They want to bring as valuable a product to market that is still going to meet their business goals. They have limited resources to spend on development and have to pick the most important features to ship. That's also not to say that more pokemon is always a good thing -- are all 800+ pokemon meaningfully differentiated? Do a significant portion of users derive value from having that many pokemon compared to the cost of their inclusion? What are the implication on long term maintenance? etc. It's not so black and white.

And if instead, you are telling me that they are just cranking out some junk product that people will eat up anyway, then that's just the buyers that are being chumps. Pokemon is a business, but they are clearly not a stupid business.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 3)

Top