Empoleon

Adm. Empoleon

I apologize if there is another thread. I searched for another thread and nothing appeared.
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Name: Empoleon
Typing: Water/Steel
Stats: 84 HP | 86 ATK | 88 DEF | 111 SPA | 101 SPD | 60 SPE
Abilities: Torrent: When its HP is below 1/3, Water moves are 1.5 more powerful.
[Dream World]
Competitive Spirit: As its stats are lowered, it's attack increases.

Movepool:
— Tackle 50 100 35 --
Charges the foe with a full- body tackle.

— Growl -- 100 40 --
Growls cutely to reduce the foe's ATTACK.

— Bubble 20 100 30 --
An attack using bubbles. May lower the foe's SPEED.

4 Growl -- 100 40 --
Growls cutely to reduce the foe's ATTACK.

8 Bubble 20 100 30 --
An attack using bubbles. May lower the foe's SPEED.

11 Swords Dance -- -- 30 --
A fighting dance that sharply raises ATTACK.

15 Peck 35 100 35 --
Attacks the foe with a jabbing beak, etc.

16 Metal Claw 50 95 35 --
A claw attack that may raise the user's ATTACK.

19 Bubblebeam 65 100 20 --
Forcefully sprays bubbles that may lower SPEED.

24 Swagger -- 90 15 --
Confuses the foe, but also sharply raises ATTACK.

28 Fury Attack 15 85 20 --
Jabs the foe 2 to 5 times with sharp horns, etc.

33 Brine 65 100 10 --
Power doubles if foe's HP is less than half

36 Aqua Jet 40 100 20 --
Always strikes first

39 Whirlpool 35 85 15 100
Traps and hurts the foe in a whirlpool for 2 to 5 turns.

46 Mist -- -- 30 --
Creates a mist that stops reduction of abilities.

52 Drill Peck 80 100 20 --
A corkscrewing attack with the beak acting as a drill.

59 Hydro Pump 120 80 5 --
Blasts water at high power to strike the foe.

TM01 Claw Sharpen -- -- 15 --
It sharpens its claws. Increases your Accuracy and Attack.

TM05 Roar -- 100 20 --
Makes the foe flee to end the battle.

TM06 Toxic -- 90 10 --
Poisons the foe with an intensifying toxin.

TM07 Hail -- -- 10 --
Summons a hailstorm that strikes every turn.

TM10 Hidden Power ?? 100 15 --
The effectiveness varies with the user.

TM13 Ice Beam 95 100 10 10
Blasts the foe with an icy beam that may freeze it.

TM14 Blizzard 120 70 5 10
Hits the foe with an icy storm that may freeze it.


TM15 Hyper Beam 150 90 5 --
Powerful, but leaves the user immobile the next turn.

TM17 Protect -- -- 10 --
Evades attack, but may fail if used in succession.

TM18 Rain Dance -- -- 5 --
Boosts the power of WATER- type moves for 5 turns.

TM21 Frustration ?? 100 20 --
An attack that is stronger if the TRAINER is disliked.

TM26 Earthquake 100 100 10 --
A powerful quake, but has no effect on flying foes.

TM27 Return ?? 100 20 --
An attack that increases in power with friendship.

TM28 Dig 80 100 10 --
Digs underground the first turn and strikes next turn.

TM31 Brick Break 75 100 15 --
Destroys barriers such as REFLECT and causes damage.

TM32 Double Team -- -- 15 --
Creates illusory copies to raise evasiveness.

TM39 Rock Tomb 50 80 10 --
Stops the foe from moving with rocks and cuts SPEED.

TM40 Aerial Ace 60 -- 20 --
An extremely speedy and unavoidable attack.

TM42 Facade 70 100 20 --
Boosts ATTACK when burned, paralyzed, or poisoned.

TM44 Rest -- -- 10 --
The user sleeps for 2 turns, restoring HP and status.

TM45 Attract -- 100 15 --
Makes the opposite gender less likely to attack.

TM48 Sing A Round 60 100 15 --
It attacks the opponent with song. If everyone sings together you can use the move in successive turns and have its power increase.

TM49 Echo Voice 40 100 15 --
It attacks the opponent with an echoed voice. If it or one of its team mates uses it each turn, the power increases.

TM55 Boiling Water 80 100 15 30
It attacks by shooting boiling hot water at the opponent. It will sometimes cause a burn.

TM56 Fling ?? 100 10 --
Hurls out held item, power depends on held item

TM60 Postpone -- 100 15 --
It holds the opponent down and makes it attack last.

TM65 Shadow Claw 70 100 15 --
High critical hit ratio

TM68 Giga Impact 150 90 5 --
User cannot attack next turn

TM75 Swords Dance -- -- 30 --
A fighting dance that sharply raises ATTACK.

TM78 Level Ground 60 100 20 --
It stamps the ground and attacks anything nearby. It lowers the opponent’s speed.

TM80 Rock Slide 75 90 10 --
Large boulders are hurled. May cause flinching.

TM86 Grass Knot ?? 100 20 --
Power increases if foe is heavy

TM87 Swagger -- 90 15 --
Confuses the foe, but also sharply raises ATTACK.

TM88 Pluck 60 100 20 --
Power doubles if foe is holding a berry

TM90 Substitute -- -- 10 --
Creates a decoy using 1/4 of the user's maximum HP.

TM91 Flash Cannon 80 100 10 --
May lower foe's SP.DEF one stage

TM94 Rock Smash 40 100 15 --
A rock-crushing attack that may lower DEFENSE.

HM01 Cut 50 95 30 --
Cuts the foe with sharp scythes, claws, etc.

HM03 Surf 95 100 15 --
Creates a huge wave, then crashes it down on the foe.

HM04 Strength 80 100 15 --
Builds enormous power, then slams the foe.

HM05 Waterfall 80 100 15 --
Charges the foe with speed to climb waterfalls.

HM06 Dive 80 100 10 --
Dives underwater the first turn and strikes next turn.

Double Hit 35 90 10 --
Strikes twice

Supersonic -- 55 20 --
Emits bizarre sound waves that may confuse the foe.

Yawn -- -- 10 --
Lulls the foe into yawning, then sleeping next turn.

Mud Sport -- -- 15 --
Covers the user in mud to raise electrical resistance.

Mud-slap 20 100 10 --
Hurls mud in the foe's face to reduce its accuracy.

Snore 40 100 15 --
A loud attack that can be used only while asleep.

Flail ?? 100 15 --
Inflicts more damage when the user's HP is down.

Agility -- -- 30 --
Relaxes the body to sharply boost SPEED.

Aqua Ring -- -- 20 --
Restores HP every turn

Hydro Pump 120 80 5 --
Blasts water at high power to strike the foe.

Featherdance -- 100 15 --
Envelops the foe with down to sharply reduce ATTACK.

Bide ?? -- 10 --
Endures attack for 2 turns to retaliate double.

Icy Wind 55 95 15 --
A chilling attack that lowers the foe's SPEED.

Now Empoleon has been -arguably- the best late-game sweeper in existence. I hope it will remain that way in Gen V. Almost nobody likes to take a +1 Torrented Surf from this guy.
Unfortuantley, this guy didn't get anything new other than a new ability, and some moves. Competitive Spirit would've been good if it had a bit more attack points. ditto for Claw Sharpen. But it did gain a new move: Boiling Water. Combine that 80 BP with its 111 SPA and a boost from Petaya... 8D
Well, onto the sets.

SubAgility Petaya
Empoleon@Petaya Berry
Modest
12 HP / 252 SpA / 244 Spe
~Substitute
~Agility
~Surf/Boiling Water
~Ice Beam/Grass Knot

The standard and the most popular set for Empoleon. Agility is the core of this set, and without it, he would not be able to sweep. You send him in after the other team is down by. lets say, 3 Pokemon, Agility as they hit you, then spam that Substitute to bring it down to Torrent and Petaya range. Then its surf's up, or time for tea.
the choice between Ice beam and Grass knot is really tricky; it depends on who you face. If you choose Ice beam, then Celebi and Shaymin are things of the past. If you choose Grass knot, then bulky Grass types are much easier to handle.

Dancing Emperor
Empoleon@Life Orb
Adamant
252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
~Swords Dance
~Aqua Jet
~Drill Peck
~Earthquake/Avalanche

Well, here we have a different approach on Empoleon, this time as an early sweeper rather than an a janitor. On paper, this looks awesome, but in real life? I don't think so.

SubSword
Empoleon@Salac Berry
Adamant
252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 Spe
~Sword Dance
~Substitute
~Earthquake/Avalanche/Shadow Claw
~Brick Break/Drill Peck/Aqua Jet
(that's a lot of moves to choose from lol)
Here's the strategy i'm thinking of:
you switch in Empoleon onto something it resists, dance when he switches out (if the pokemon WILL switch out in the first place lol), then spam substitute to activate the berry, the rest is all yours. this may look good on paper, but i don't think this will be very effective.

Conclusion:
How will Empoleon be in the Gen V metagame? Will he still be the king of late-game sweeping? Will he still be OU? What will it counter? What can counter it?
 
Empoleon has special bulk for a Defensive set with Boiling Water, Icy Wind, Yawn and/or Stealth Rock. Empoleon hasn't changed much.
 
Personally I favor either a defensive set (making good use of his decent bulk and great typing) or a bulky attacker set (probably with agility as the rest of his stats are decent). I don't really like the pinch berry sets as it really seems like a waste of Emp's bulk to sub down to 1/4 hp. Even with his resists that puts him in decent OHKO range for alot of attackers (even more so this gen) and he is weak to one of the most common priority types, which matters as Mach Punch and Vacum Wave seem more common this gen.
 
Petaya Agility Penguin is effective because he DOESN'T have to rely on the boost alone to get going. You can have it come in multiple times thanks to its bulk/resistances and have it pick off random stuff and go for the sweep later. All in all it lets you test the water for fighting priority users before you attempt the petaya activation.

Eitherway its pretty much summed up above that Empolean has remained virtually unchanged this gen, except he now has competition for the Swords Dance set in the new samurai sea otter.
 
I'm really against using Boiling Water on the SubPetaya set. If you've carefully set up Empoleon, you don't want to sacrifice that extra 15 base power for a chance to burn the opponent. That's a job more orientated for a defensive Empoleon

Also,
it depends on who you face. If you choose Ice beam, then Celebi and Shaymin are things of the past. If you choose Grass knot, then bulky Grass types are much easier to handle.
Click to expand...
I think you meant bulky waters in that last sentence.
 
Lol sadly he didnt get anything new and if things go on like this Empoleon will probably be considerred somewhat "Metagame Weak".Lets see how this goes =P
 
Defensively Empoleon might seem strong but IMO it's largely outclassed by other Water-types as well as Nattorei. Nattorei especially has much better bulk stat-wise, Steel Thorns, and good support moves. They wall the same things - Water/Dragon, Water/Normal, Rock/Dark etc, but Empoleon is a much shakier counter to Water-types since it's weak to Electric. Compared to other bulky waters then, it lacks Burunkeru's or Vaporeon's recovery or any set-up move that fits on a defensive Pokemon. It also can't wall Fire-types. If anything, Empoleon should focus on its offensive capabilities.
 
Agility + 3 attacks + Life Orb is also a great set.

It's not as powerful as the Sub-Petaya set fully set-up, but it doesn't require you to lose 75% to be at full power, and you no longer have to choose between Ice Beam and Grass Knot. Just use both and hit everything hard bar Blissey.
 
shipship said:
Agility + 3 attacks + Life Orb is also a great set.

It's not as powerful as the Sub-Petaya set fully set-up, but it doesn't require you to lose 75% to be at full power, and you no longer have to choose between Ice Beam and Grass Knot. Just use both and hit everything hard bar Blissey.
Click to expand...

Problem with that set is it kills the penguins survivability and also ability to break stuff apart. Half the point of Petaya set is he can bust through even Blissey in 2 hits.
 
Why is everyone treating Boiling Water like it's the best thing since sliced bread? It's Lava Plume, but Water-typed. Does Scarftran use Lava Plume?

Anyway, Empoleon isn't outclassed by other Water types because it's a steel type. It's also one of the few water types to get Grass Knot.

However, I agree Nat is much better at walling, in general.
 
Empoleon is one of my favourite pokemon.

I think it'll do fine subpetaya sweeping. Just don't switch in on something that is still faster after an agility (shell breaked cloyster, doryuuzu in sandstorm, numerous scarfed stuff)

I go with Grass Knot, as i still surf off 50% of Celebi.

You can (and I did) bluff the other coverage move and switch in on a dragonite/garchomp/swampert/whatever and get a free agility up.
 
That's not the point. Boiling water is for defensive pokemon who have recovery and can afford to sit back and pray for burns as the opponent sets up on them (see: Burunkeru, Vappy). Empoleon has no recovery. Also, it has no business on Empoleon's Agility Subpetaya set, which is trying to KILL things, not burn them.
 
Empoleon-Leftovers/Shed Shell (Torrent)
Bold (Def+,Atk-)
252 HP/4 SpAtk/252 SpDef
Surf
Grass Knot
Roar
Ice Beam

Typical defensive set from the days of D/P/Pt. Think it'll see the light of B/W?
 
This is purely theoretical, but in the new climate of the drizzle/swsw ban, could the sub pinch agility set be used as a rain sweeper, outspeeding things and hitting them with +1 torrent rain boosted surfs?
 
I have two pokemon that totally rape empoleon, and set up in its face. If the empoleon will let them, they can even do both.

Empoleon doesn't have great speed, so good scarfers can revenge it, and it doesn't have good special attack. The typing and movepool are nice, but not nice enough to put it in OU.
 
The new generation is very unkind to Empoleon.

- Hard-countered by the most common Pokemon in the game, Ferrothorn.
- Last gen, one of the biggest selling points of SubPetaya was his resistance to all forms of common priority. Well now Mach Punch is king so Empoleon just finds himself on that increasingly large list of Pokemon checked by Roopushin/Breloom/Hitmontop etc.
- Drought.
- Another selling point was the relative lack of support he required but now it looks as though you'll have to pack a weather changer unless you want to get outran by Doryuuzu.
- Scarfchomp etc.

Good news is he's easier than ever to set up (thanks Latios!) and, like chrisrandom9 touched upon, he can call upon Politoed to send the power of Surf through the roof. Check it out:

+1 Torrent Rain Surf vs 4/0 Latios = 78% - 92%
+1 Torrent Rain Surf vs 4/0 Salamence = 92% - 109%
+1 Torrent Rain Surf vs 252/0 Gyarados = 64% - 76%
+1 Torrent Rain Surf vs 252/252+ Ferrothorn = 46% - 55%
+1 Torrent Rain Surf vs 252/0 Blissey = 55% - 64%
 
this guy is great @ a lead utilizing focus sash and torrent... can get down rocks pretty decent and usually able to take out other leads while getting a torrent boosted aqua jet on the the following pokemon before going down
 
I love the SubAgility Petaya set, except it keeps on getting KOed by the stupid extreme speed Dragonites! (Empoleon is awesome if they can't get priority on you though)
 
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