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Forretress

Calm Pokemaster said:
Even is you dont want to use it as a pure entry hazard layer, you can use it as a bait. Lure a trapper in, Volt Change out, and try eliminate the trapper before it switches.
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Shandera: The only thing I can think of that will definitely take it out is ScarfTar.

Magnezone: Your own Shandera, or a Dugtrio.

Other Shadow Taggers: IIRC they're all Psychic, slower than Shandera but bulkier, so maybe we need a BandTar here.

It's impossible to cover everything. D:
 
TacoBot said:
Shandera: The only thing I can think of that will definitely take it out is ScarfTar.

Magnezone: Your own Shandera, or a Dugtrio.

Other Shadow Taggers: IIRC they're all Psychic, slower than Shandera but bulkier, so maybe we need a BandTar here.

It's impossible to cover everything. D:
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Who cares? lol. Volt Change is excellent as it allows you to scout for common switchins to Forretress: Lucario, Gyarados, Ghost-types, etc. It does good damage and like U-turn, keeps the momentum in your favor. This is especially important on Forretress because his job is a support Pokemon. Scarf Tar covers Shanderaa, Gengar, Starmie, and forces Gyarados, Lucario, and Magnezone out.
 
TacoBot said:
Shandera: The only thing I can think of that will definitely take it out is ScarfTar.

Magnezone: Your own Shandera, or a Dugtrio.

Other Shadow Taggers: IIRC they're all Psychic, slower than Shandera but bulkier, so maybe we need a BandTar here.

It's impossible to cover everything. D:
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Why fill your team with counters when you can lure them with Forry, and take them out with Scarf TTar or whatever else you have on hand.


I think there has been TOO much debate on Volt Change, let it rest. Forry has many options, the movepool depends on your battle style and team members.
 
With how Sturdy works now, Volt Change is a lot more viable than it would have been. You might switch out with 1 HP, but you still get your hazard up and an appropriate counter out. :P
 
Sajak said:
With how Sturdy works now, Volt Change is a lot more viable than it would have been. You might switch out with 1 HP, but you still get your hazard up and an appropriate counter out. :P
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If the opponent has any entry hazards up though, you'll get killed the moment you enter the field.
 
Calm Pokemaster said:
Even is you dont want to use it as a pure entry hazard layer, you can use it as a bait. Lure a trapper in, Volt Change out, and try eliminate the trapper before it switches.
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That makes an almost guaranteed Rapid Spin if you have T-tar waiting in the wings. The second time Forry comes in, nothing's gonna block its spin, and it can also safely put up Spikes since T-tar will have Pursuited Shanderaa to death.
 
TacoBot said:
Shandera: The only thing I can think of that will definitely take it out is ScarfTar.

Sure

Magnezone: Your own Shandera, or a Dugtrio.

Or a Scarftar

Other Shadow Taggers: IIRC they're all Psychic, slower than Shandera but bulkier, so maybe we need a BandTar here.

Or...a ScarfTar!

It's impossible to cover everything. D:

I beg to differ
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Anyway, you can Volt Change Gochizeru, since it has bad offensive coverage, and you can just Spikes on Wobb, which is a fair trade. Two layers of spikes for one turn of set-up?
 
The main thing that you guys are forgetting about here is team preview. You can scout before the match starts to see whether or not the opposition has a trapper. So you switch in Forry, immediately Volt Change to your ScarfTar and then kill it. If they have no trapper, you are free to set up hazards as you like whilst also having the advantage of having a move that keeps the momentum in your favour if needed.
 
The Sturdy upgrade is great for Forretress. I run a Sturdy Custap Forretress, which beats up all impending Shandera.

Turn 1
I use Stealth Rock
Foe switches into Shandera

Turn 2
Foe uses fire move
I survive at 1 health
I use Earthquake, dealing over half damage

Turn 3
Custap activates, and I KO Shandera.

By that time of course it's dead weight but it's killed a Shandera and gotten rocks up. Pretty nice.
 
gonna say here that shed shell is definitely forry's item. for one it's really good at getting away from shanderaa (volt change is guesswork a lot of the time). for two it's hilarious for those gimmicky uxie sets (memento+LS+Reflect+filler), where they set up and waste two pokemon (shanderaa dies to pursuit tar).

Overall it's pretty nice IMO. Use it with pursuit tar though, obviously.

(and FYI I don't use Sturdy since I ran forry on my hail team)
 
Having Volt Change is stupid. If you predict a Shadow Tagger coming in, you can just switch out at the same time. You will die anyway if you predict incorrectly
 
Not really, because you can decide your switch-in AFTER they send their Tagger/Forry killer. So you can bring the correct counter, not to mean the (small, but existant) damage. Its true that you use a slot of a pokemon that have the 4 moveslot syndrome since gen 3, but its usable.
The vantage of volt change over shed shell is tha you keep lefties, what is helpfull in a wall that cant heal itself (ok, pain split, but its not reliable)
In fact, giving him an extra options means your opponent will have a harder time predicting your moveset.
 
masterful said:
Having Volt Change is stupid. If you predict a Shadow Tagger coming in, you can just switch out at the same time. You will die anyway if you predict incorrectly
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I actually think Volt Change is useful for dealing a bit of damage before switching out to a counter. A bit of damage can sometimes make a difference. But still, you have to be careful when using it against Ground Pokemon, and Pokemon with Volt Absorb, Motor Drive or LightningRod.
 
masterful said:
Having Volt Change is stupid.
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I agree with this sentiment. Volt Change is a bit of a waste of a moveslot in my opinion, as Magnezone isn't too common (3.24%), and neither is Shandera (3.69%), at least in Wi-Fi play. Forry's much better off using Rapid Spin/Payback/Your choice of two entry hazards, and he can come in on Scarfed Skymin on Seed Flare, Outrage, pretty much any physical attack not named Fire Punch or Flare Blitz, without having to rely on escaping trappers.
In DW, which is where ST Shandera runs rampant (24.82%), Forry can opt to use Payback instead of Volt Changing out. With rocks up, Payback 2HKOes, which pretty much means that if you catch Shandera on the switch-in, you'll survive with 1 HP. If not, you can opt for another layer of hazards or dealing 56 - 66% with Payback, which is quite a chunk.
 
Since payback has been nerfed to NOT double in strength when your opponent switches in, I consider it to be a waste of a moveslot. If even gengar switches in on you, it will take pitiful damage from the payback. And unless you're at full hp, you're losing your forretress. Then there's spin blockers like dusknoir, dusclops, and desukan, who will all be on the recieving end of a base 50 power non STAB attack no matter when you hit them with it.

At least volt change is useful for scouting, if not for escaping your opponent's forry killer. No, team preview does not remove the need to scout. Team previews don't mean that you deal no damage and switch during the same turn. Plus, Volt change hits a select few pokemon such as gyarados and cloyster for a nice amount of damage.
 
Wow, 156 SAtk Volt Change can 2 hit ko Cloyster and neary ohkoes after a defense drop. Wow. But then, Cloyster has pathetic special defense. But still...that gives props to what I thought had been a useless move on Forretress. Against Gyrados, it does about 40% and it could escape and switch to something. It does more than an Intimadated Explosion due to the Explosion weaking where it no longer cut defense. That is...interesting.
 
Fluffy Otters said:
Wow, 156 SAtk Volt Change can 2 hit ko Cloyster and neary ohkoes after a defense drop. Wow. But then, Cloyster has pathetic special defense. But still...that gives props to what I thought had been a useless move on Forretress. Against Gyrados, it does about 40% and it could escape and switch to something. It does more than an Intimadated Explosion due to the Explosion weaking where it no longer cut defense. That is...interesting.
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Yeah this was one of the more hilarious uses for volt change on my forry... you'd think it's really not that important but a slow switch to a pokemon with prioirty can be a godsend.

Just FYI Payback/Rapid Spin/Volt Change/Toxic Spikes @ Shed Shell is the set that I used. Yeah I know that Volt Change is redundant but it really does help sometimes. And really wtf else are you going to put there? I really have no use for other hazards (hell forry seldom gets to set up two layers of t-spikes in general) and forry's attacking movepool is godawful. I mean I guess you can use gyro ball or something but either way it's going to be doing meh damage.
 
Sajak said:
With how Sturdy works now, Volt Change is a lot more viable than it would have been. You might switch out with 1 HP, but you still get your hazard up and an appropriate counter out. :P
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Or you could just use Earthquake and KO Magnezone and Shandera
 
People against Volt Change should go play on DW tier, which is what Standard will eventually look like.

With Shandera being number one and high-pressure threats around every corner, Volt Change is actually quite useful, even if they don't have a trapper. Earthquake was nearly useless of Forretress anyway as I would rather spin or lay hazards than try to KO a fire-type, and Gyro Ball is enough to keep speedy threats at bay.
 
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