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Gen 7 OM Competitive Discussion
- Thread starter The Immortal
- Start date
We also can hope for a Ghost/Normal pokemon with sweeper-like stats (unfortunately i don't think it's likely we'll get something such as that this generation). People would use both Judgment (Dread Plate) for Imposter and Moongeist Beam for Unaware Walls/Sturdinja. If Mega-Audino bothers more than Imposter than just replace Dark Judgment with Boomburst (STAB makes it stronger than Sludge Wave).
Explosion and V-Create...
Keldeo just got a nasty case of 4MSS in STABmons. Steam Eruption / Water Spout / Secret Sword / Vacuum Wave / Water Shuriken.
Azumarill is bummed but still decent with Aqua Jet. Cloyster can go full Special now with Shell Smash / Water Shuriken / Freeze-Dry / HP Fire.
I can see W. Shuriken on AV Slowking too. Its 4th slot was pretty flexible.
Azumarill is bummed but still decent with Aqua Jet. Cloyster can go full Special now with Shell Smash / Water Shuriken / Freeze-Dry / HP Fire.
I can see W. Shuriken on AV Slowking too. Its 4th slot was pretty flexible.
Well, since Z-moves modify existing moves, we know now you most likely won't be able to hack them onto Pokemon directly. So in BH, they'll be one-shot held-item required things most likely. The trick will be figuring out the formula for the Z-moves though so we can figure out if they'll be wall breaking terrors or not. (But considering some stuff can wall Pdon's V-Create, BP 175 Thunderbolts don't seem very meta-changing for BH).
Water Shuriken change is a nerf to Gyarados and the occasional Skill Link Kyu-B, but a buff to Kyogre(-P) and Palkia.
Ash-Greninja will likely be of niche use in BH. At the very least, if the opponent has one, you won't be able to merely laugh it off. Only thing that would be better would it being totally unusable. (Can you tell I hate Ash Greninja?)
Edit: Also, can I request that datamined leaked info, like the whole Pokedex, be kept to spoilers? As much as I like talking about theoretical stuff, I still don't want spoilers for the game itself outside of official announcements, and I'm sure others may feel the same.
Water Shuriken change is a nerf to Gyarados and the occasional Skill Link Kyu-B, but a buff to Kyogre(-P) and Palkia.
Ash-Greninja will likely be of niche use in BH. At the very least, if the opponent has one, you won't be able to merely laugh it off. Only thing that would be better would it being totally unusable. (Can you tell I hate Ash Greninja?)
Edit: Also, can I request that datamined leaked info, like the whole Pokedex, be kept to spoilers? As much as I like talking about theoretical stuff, I still don't want spoilers for the game itself outside of official announcements, and I'm sure others may feel the same.
Aside from the new moves that were still in the demo, the rest of the data mining is mostly irrelevant to this discussion considering all the types, abilities and stats were scrubbed out. I think it makes sense not to mention them, though I'd consider an exception for
Throat Chop, Laser Focus, Aurora Veil and Psychic Terrain
Just let me understand: Z-moves will modify SPECIFIC moves or any moves of some type?
Gigavolt Havoc only modifies Thunderbolt or does it modify any Electric move?
In my previous post i mentioned Explosion and V-Create because i thought Z-Fire and Z-Normal moves would modify anything of those types, but now seeing you guys talking looks like specific stuff.
If Ashninja form can be hacked into BH without the need of Battle Bond, then there is no boost to Water Shuriken because AFAIK this boost comes from the ability, not the form change per se.
Gigavolt Havoc only modifies Thunderbolt or does it modify any Electric move?
In my previous post i mentioned Explosion and V-Create because i thought Z-Fire and Z-Normal moves would modify anything of those types, but now seeing you guys talking looks like specific stuff.
If Ashninja form can be hacked into BH without the need of Battle Bond, then there is no boost to Water Shuriken because AFAIK this boost comes from the ability, not the form change per se.
Gigavolt Havoc modifies other Electric moves :
"Z Move Power varies depending on the base move. Gigavolt Havoc from Thunderbolt is 175 base power. Nuzzle it has 100 and is Physical. Electro Ball it is 160 and Special"
Considering the move can be either physical and special and the animation doesn't change.
So, the fire type Z-Crystal should affect V-Create and the normal type Z-Crystal should affect Explosion.
Also, Kyu-B with the Ice type Z-Crystal and Freeze Shock may be awesome.
"Z Move Power varies depending on the base move. Gigavolt Havoc from Thunderbolt is 175 base power. Nuzzle it has 100 and is Physical. Electro Ball it is 160 and Special"
Considering the move can be either physical and special and the animation doesn't change.
So, the fire type Z-Crystal should affect V-Create and the normal type Z-Crystal should affect Explosion.
Also, Kyu-B with the Ice type Z-Crystal and Freeze Shock may be awesome.
Alolan Geodude-Golem are confirmed (unknown type)
Alolan Diglett is also confirmed
Sumo Cat is real (starter evos)
4 totem pokemon
Guesses: Ghost-Fairy, Electric-Fairy (Tapu Koko), Psychic-Fairy, Fighting/Fire-Fairy
Look to match the dancing bird
8 Ultra Beasts
Tons of sprites dumped (no stats or typing so far)
Also Thunder Wave is 90% accuracy and paralysis is now a 1/2 speed drop
Credits (according to video): SciresM, Kaphotics, Bond697, Slashmolder, Alpha, KazoWAR, TiniVi, Marty, OmegaDonut
Edit: Kowala and Pyukumuku are single stage trash and removed extra media
Alolan Diglett is also confirmed
Sumo Cat is real (starter evos)
4 totem pokemon
Guesses: Ghost-Fairy, Electric-Fairy (Tapu Koko), Psychic-Fairy, Fighting/Fire-Fairy
Look to match the dancing bird
8 Ultra Beasts
Tons of sprites dumped (no stats or typing so far)
Also Thunder Wave is 90% accuracy and paralysis is now a 1/2 speed drop
Credits (according to video): SciresM, Kaphotics, Bond697, Slashmolder, Alpha, KazoWAR, TiniVi, Marty, OmegaDonut
Edit: Kowala and Pyukumuku are single stage trash and removed extra media
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Thunderbolt is BP 90 > 175 for a difference of 85. Nuzzle is BP 20 > 100 for a difference of 80. Electroball... varies and goes to 160. Averages to around 80 though I think, which is a difference of 80.
So, Z-moves, or at least Gigavolt Havoc seems to add about +80 BP. I need to get to the part with Electroball and compare it vs different foes to see if the Z-move changes depending on foes speed. Though with Pikachu being level 40, that might be hard to do.
So, Z-moves, or at least Gigavolt Havoc seems to add about +80 BP. I need to get to the part with Electroball and compare it vs different foes to see if the Z-move changes depending on foes speed. Though with Pikachu being level 40, that might be hard to do.
Arceus bless.
I'm going to discuss the new moves and some implications they have for OMs with a bit of speculation. Some spoilers ahead, but there will be minimal discussion of the leaked sprites:
Laser Focus: Next attack is a guarenteed crit.
Pretty garbage move. With Gen 6 crit mechanics, this is really just Growth out of sun, only it lasts a single turn and has a minor bonus of breaking through Def/SpDef boosts. Unless there is a way to extend the turn amount (highly unlikely) this won't be used.
Throat Chop: Attack that prevents foe from using sound-based moves.
Niche at best, but it has more potential than Laser Focus. I honestly don't think the bp will be much higher than 60-80, so the real boon is the secondary effect, which can be potentially useful against users of Hyper Voice, Boomburst and No Guard Sing. Hyper Voice is really only relevant for metas where Garde doesn't get Boomburst. Boomburst is a big deal in AAA, BH, Sketchmons and a bit in MnM -- having counterplay to Boomburst users without resorting to Soundproof will be useful in those metas, but it really depends on the power and type of the attack. No Guard Sing is relevant in MnM and AAA, maybe BH and Sketchmons -- fast Sub users might be able to make use of it to prevent being slept behind a Sub.
Aurora Veil: Basically Light Screen + Reflect at the same time.
By far the best of this move trio. If it has the same damage reduction as those moves and the ability to be boosted by Light Clay, it may see use on Prankster BH/Sketchmons leads, or in other metas if the distribution is better than when I'm speculating. Exciting for all playstyles and might prompt greater use of Defog/Brick Break if it gains traction.
SPECULATION: The dominant theory is that these three moves are the signature moves of the starter evolutions. They're thematically similar and the fact that they remain in the demo when most moves are scrubbed out suggest that they'll be used in future days of the event, possibly with the official reveal of the starter evolutions. The typings, I'd guess, will match the secondary typings of the third stage starters. If these are the Spiky Shield/Mystic Fire/Water Shuriken equivalents of this game, then we may see limited distribution on other Pokemon (Maractus, Mismagius, Accelgor) but for now I'll assume they're starter-locked. If that's the case, the usage of these moves in any meta where you can't just give a mon new moves will entirely depend on the strength of the starters, which is dependent on their stats and hidden abilities. This is the most speculation I'll do, but my current theory is that the Rowlet line will have Sniper as its hidden ability because: a) it's thematic with the archer theme, b) no starter has this as their hidden ability yet and c) it combos well with Laser Focus.
Psychic Terrain: Pokemon on the ground have their Psychic moves boosted and are immune to priority.
This one's a game changer. People have dismissed the two mons that have priority blocking abilities because they might not be good enough on their own to justify using, but if Psychic Terrain has enough distribution, we could very well see mons like Alakazam setting up its team to stop priority revenge killers like Talonflame and Azumaril cold. BH, AG, AAA, MnM and Sketchmons could really appreciate this, and a ton of other metas have a big problem with priority (see: Return'd) that this move would help fix. The damage boost to Psychic moves shouldn't be overlooked either, as there are several immensely powerful Psychics that GF has added over the years.
SPECULATION: There are four island deities, with Tapu Koko being one. With this news, there are also four terrain types. Logically, each island deity will have an ability that automatically sets one of the terrains, just like Tapu Koko. Since I'm like 85% sure this is what GF will do, we can also extrapolate the types of the remaining deities: I think each of them will be part Fairy and part the type of their terrain. So Psychic/Fairy for Psychic Terrain (the one that looks like it has an open book on its head, because knowledge), Grass/Fairy for Grassy Terrain (the one with fern-like hair, because plants), and ???/Fairy for Misty Terrain, but I'm guessing Water (the one inside a shell/swordfish, because Misty Terrain is Fairy it might just lack another type, but I think Water makes sense because mist is literally just water). Assuming these abilities exist, every terrain will have the potential to be automatically set. This is huge for AAA and BH, as they can serve the same purpose as weather setters. In other metas they'll still likely be used quite a lot assuming the island deities are good and unbanned. It would be cool to see an AAA team based around a Psychic Terrain setter (with the ability) and a bunch of priority-weak teammates. Bonus points if there's a Damp Rock-eque item that extends terrain turns. I could say more, but these abilities are possibly one of the biggest shakeups for OMs if everything pans out.
Pretty garbage move. With Gen 6 crit mechanics, this is really just Growth out of sun, only it lasts a single turn and has a minor bonus of breaking through Def/SpDef boosts. Unless there is a way to extend the turn amount (highly unlikely) this won't be used.
Throat Chop: Attack that prevents foe from using sound-based moves.
Niche at best, but it has more potential than Laser Focus. I honestly don't think the bp will be much higher than 60-80, so the real boon is the secondary effect, which can be potentially useful against users of Hyper Voice, Boomburst and No Guard Sing. Hyper Voice is really only relevant for metas where Garde doesn't get Boomburst. Boomburst is a big deal in AAA, BH, Sketchmons and a bit in MnM -- having counterplay to Boomburst users without resorting to Soundproof will be useful in those metas, but it really depends on the power and type of the attack. No Guard Sing is relevant in MnM and AAA, maybe BH and Sketchmons -- fast Sub users might be able to make use of it to prevent being slept behind a Sub.
Aurora Veil: Basically Light Screen + Reflect at the same time.
By far the best of this move trio. If it has the same damage reduction as those moves and the ability to be boosted by Light Clay, it may see use on Prankster BH/Sketchmons leads, or in other metas if the distribution is better than when I'm speculating. Exciting for all playstyles and might prompt greater use of Defog/Brick Break if it gains traction.
SPECULATION: The dominant theory is that these three moves are the signature moves of the starter evolutions. They're thematically similar and the fact that they remain in the demo when most moves are scrubbed out suggest that they'll be used in future days of the event, possibly with the official reveal of the starter evolutions. The typings, I'd guess, will match the secondary typings of the third stage starters. If these are the Spiky Shield/Mystic Fire/Water Shuriken equivalents of this game, then we may see limited distribution on other Pokemon (Maractus, Mismagius, Accelgor) but for now I'll assume they're starter-locked. If that's the case, the usage of these moves in any meta where you can't just give a mon new moves will entirely depend on the strength of the starters, which is dependent on their stats and hidden abilities. This is the most speculation I'll do, but my current theory is that the Rowlet line will have Sniper as its hidden ability because: a) it's thematic with the archer theme, b) no starter has this as their hidden ability yet and c) it combos well with Laser Focus.
Psychic Terrain: Pokemon on the ground have their Psychic moves boosted and are immune to priority.
This one's a game changer. People have dismissed the two mons that have priority blocking abilities because they might not be good enough on their own to justify using, but if Psychic Terrain has enough distribution, we could very well see mons like Alakazam setting up its team to stop priority revenge killers like Talonflame and Azumaril cold. BH, AG, AAA, MnM and Sketchmons could really appreciate this, and a ton of other metas have a big problem with priority (see: Return'd) that this move would help fix. The damage boost to Psychic moves shouldn't be overlooked either, as there are several immensely powerful Psychics that GF has added over the years.
SPECULATION: There are four island deities, with Tapu Koko being one. With this news, there are also four terrain types. Logically, each island deity will have an ability that automatically sets one of the terrains, just like Tapu Koko. Since I'm like 85% sure this is what GF will do, we can also extrapolate the types of the remaining deities: I think each of them will be part Fairy and part the type of their terrain. So Psychic/Fairy for Psychic Terrain (the one that looks like it has an open book on its head, because knowledge), Grass/Fairy for Grassy Terrain (the one with fern-like hair, because plants), and ???/Fairy for Misty Terrain, but I'm guessing Water (the one inside a shell/swordfish, because Misty Terrain is Fairy it might just lack another type, but I think Water makes sense because mist is literally just water). Assuming these abilities exist, every terrain will have the potential to be automatically set. This is huge for AAA and BH, as they can serve the same purpose as weather setters. In other metas they'll still likely be used quite a lot assuming the island deities are good and unbanned. It would be cool to see an AAA team based around a Psychic Terrain setter (with the ability) and a bunch of priority-weak teammates. Bonus points if there's a Damp Rock-eque item that extends terrain turns. I could say more, but these abilities are possibly one of the biggest shakeups for OMs if everything pans out.
Multiple sources including myself in playing of the demo have noticed changes to both the mechanics of Paralysis and Confusion.
Paralysis lowers your speed to a half of its initial amount, while Thunder Wave's accuracy has been dropped to 90%.
Confusion now only makes a Pokémon hit itself 1/3 of the time.
What does this mean for Other Metagames?
Well in AG, the omnipresent threat of SwagPlay Klefki has been severely nerfed. Looking at the calcs:
Full Paralysis on TWave Hit (let's call it x) = [TWave Hit (90%) * FullPara (25%)]
x = [0.9*0.25]
x = 0.225
Chance to be succumb to either (let's call it y) = x + {No Paralysis (100% - 22.5%) * [Swagger Hit (90%) * HitYourself (33.33%)]}
y = 0.225 + {0.775 * [0.9*(1/3)]}
y = 0.225 + {0.775 * 0.3}
y = 0.225 + 0.2325
y = 0.4575
.'. 45.75% chance to not attack.
Just over a 45% chance to be succumb to either effect when under both conditions and considering the chance for the Pokémon inflicting to miss these moves simultaneously. Is SwagPlay Klefki really worth it anymore? The attack boost will be too significant in most cases, that the only time I see SwagPlay Klefki being a valid threat is when paired with Imposter Ditto or Unaware users such as Quagsire. Overall, AG cancer should be shifting from SwagPlay Klefki to Fissure Machamp.
If we consider the miss chance and the effects as separate entities (in other words, say a Pokémon has already been hit with both), then the probability of succeeding with a Pokémon such as Klefki isn't that much more likely.
Chance to not attack when under both conditions (let's call it z) = Full Paralysis (0.25) + (1 - Full Paralysis) * Confusion (1/3)
z = 0.25 + (1 - 0.25) * (1/3)
z = 0.25 + 0.75 * (1/3)
z = 0.25 + 0.25
z = 0.5
.'. Without accounting for accuracy and the fact that it requires two turns to set both status effects, Klefki's luck is merely nothing less than a coin toss.
So what do I think this will do to the AG metagame?
For one, Offense becomes a much more attractive playstyle, regardless of the fact it's the most common currently.
Xerneas becomes a lot harder to check, as the paralysis speed drop and chance to miss from Thunder Wave aren't enough for common users Klefki, Ho-Oh and Primal Groudon to outspeed.
^Due to this, Faster TWave Primal Groudon sets may be ran to account for the speed Xerneas runs pre-Geomancy.
Fingers crossed Solgaleo doesn't suck.
Paralysis lowers your speed to a half of its initial amount, while Thunder Wave's accuracy has been dropped to 90%.
Confusion now only makes a Pokémon hit itself 1/3 of the time.
What does this mean for Other Metagames?
Well in AG, the omnipresent threat of SwagPlay Klefki has been severely nerfed. Looking at the calcs:
Full Paralysis on TWave Hit (let's call it x) = [TWave Hit (90%) * FullPara (25%)]
x = [0.9*0.25]
x = 0.225
Chance to be succumb to either (let's call it y) = x + {No Paralysis (100% - 22.5%) * [Swagger Hit (90%) * HitYourself (33.33%)]}
y = 0.225 + {0.775 * [0.9*(1/3)]}
y = 0.225 + {0.775 * 0.3}
y = 0.225 + 0.2325
y = 0.4575
.'. 45.75% chance to not attack.
Just over a 45% chance to be succumb to either effect when under both conditions and considering the chance for the Pokémon inflicting to miss these moves simultaneously. Is SwagPlay Klefki really worth it anymore? The attack boost will be too significant in most cases, that the only time I see SwagPlay Klefki being a valid threat is when paired with Imposter Ditto or Unaware users such as Quagsire. Overall, AG cancer should be shifting from SwagPlay Klefki to Fissure Machamp.
If we consider the miss chance and the effects as separate entities (in other words, say a Pokémon has already been hit with both), then the probability of succeeding with a Pokémon such as Klefki isn't that much more likely.
Chance to not attack when under both conditions (let's call it z) = Full Paralysis (0.25) + (1 - Full Paralysis) * Confusion (1/3)
z = 0.25 + (1 - 0.25) * (1/3)
z = 0.25 + 0.75 * (1/3)
z = 0.25 + 0.25
z = 0.5
.'. Without accounting for accuracy and the fact that it requires two turns to set both status effects, Klefki's luck is merely nothing less than a coin toss.
So what do I think this will do to the AG metagame?
For one, Offense becomes a much more attractive playstyle, regardless of the fact it's the most common currently.
Xerneas becomes a lot harder to check, as the paralysis speed drop and chance to miss from Thunder Wave aren't enough for common users Klefki, Ho-Oh and Primal Groudon to outspeed.
^Due to this, Faster TWave Primal Groudon sets may be ran to account for the speed Xerneas runs pre-Geomancy.
Fingers crossed Solgaleo doesn't suck.
I certainly think, if Pdon is still used as a common xern check, it will almost always be using roar to do so, with Thunder Wave meaning that it would have to invest speed which could lead to it not being bulky enough to stop fast geoxern. Perhaps Ingrain Xern will become more common.
While Fissure Machamp will be everywhere low-ladder, it doesn't strike me as a huge problem. Sure, teams will have to make sure they have a way to beat 6 machamp, but compared to the mons in AG it's not exactly a wall and more than that, it'll have to play mind games with your flying mons. Sure, Ho-Oh doesn't look like a great counter in the face of Stone Edge, but mons like Yveltal come in with no problems and pokemon like Giratina-O happily take a Knock off or two, even if they're predicted. Mega Rayquaza counters the mon, assuming that it managed to mega beforehand, tanking ice punch with ease, while there are plenty of other ways to beat the mon assuming you can predict. I can't really imagine the mon doing much more than preventing your gengar from mega evolving for a while.
That said, I am looking forward to seeing Banded Machamp used as a lure set, where people expect it to be scarved. This set can do some serious damage to mons like Yveltal (Stone Edge doing 60-70%) while Bullet Punch does a neat 30% to xern in a pinch. That said, the set's difficult to use and practically useless against anything that isn't stall once your opponent knows what it is. It's also worth pointing out just how hard it will be to bring Machamp in, with defences that struggle to take two hits and a typing that gives it weaknesses to a plethora of attacks.
On the whole though, I think AG won't change vastly. Mons like Primal Groudon and Xerneas will continue to be solid threats, mons like Darkrai and Lugia will continue to be annoying, and people like Thimo will continue to be creative in completely ridiculous an uncompetitive ways. Let's just hope that SUMO AG brings a decent barbaracle check.
While Fissure Machamp will be everywhere low-ladder, it doesn't strike me as a huge problem. Sure, teams will have to make sure they have a way to beat 6 machamp, but compared to the mons in AG it's not exactly a wall and more than that, it'll have to play mind games with your flying mons. Sure, Ho-Oh doesn't look like a great counter in the face of Stone Edge, but mons like Yveltal come in with no problems and pokemon like Giratina-O happily take a Knock off or two, even if they're predicted. Mega Rayquaza counters the mon, assuming that it managed to mega beforehand, tanking ice punch with ease, while there are plenty of other ways to beat the mon assuming you can predict. I can't really imagine the mon doing much more than preventing your gengar from mega evolving for a while.
That said, I am looking forward to seeing Banded Machamp used as a lure set, where people expect it to be scarved. This set can do some serious damage to mons like Yveltal (Stone Edge doing 60-70%) while Bullet Punch does a neat 30% to xern in a pinch. That said, the set's difficult to use and practically useless against anything that isn't stall once your opponent knows what it is. It's also worth pointing out just how hard it will be to bring Machamp in, with defences that struggle to take two hits and a typing that gives it weaknesses to a plethora of attacks.
On the whole though, I think AG won't change vastly. Mons like Primal Groudon and Xerneas will continue to be solid threats, mons like Darkrai and Lugia will continue to be annoying, and people like Thimo will continue to be creative in completely ridiculous an uncompetitive ways. Let's just hope that SUMO AG brings a decent barbaracle check.
Why would you run Limber when you can run Comatose? That effectively gives you Water Veil, Magma Armor, Limber & Immunity (and possibly Own Tempo) all in one go.
Implying that it will not be banned...
Why would it be banned? Magic Bounce wasn't banned.
So my post is more than one line, here's some sets with the new abilities.
Raikou @ Choice Specs
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power Ice
Standard Specs Raikou, now with a lot more power. This thing can destroy all but the bulkiest of Special walls, and you can even switch it into Spores.
Slowbro @ Leftovers
Ability: Comatose
EVs: 252 HP / 224 Def / 32 SpD
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Scald
- Psyshock
- Slack Off
You don't have to worry about Toxic, Toxic Spikes, Burns or indeed anything bar Sleep now. Taunt will still shut this set down though. You could also run Stamina, but the status immunity is usually more beneficial.
Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Fluffy
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Bold Nature
- Seismic Toss
- Wish
- Protect
- Heal Bell
With Fluffy, most of those annoying Fighting type moves become much weaker. You could also run Filter, Unaware or Innards Out, but Fluffy also guards against other contact moves like Waterfall, Knock Off, Outrage etc.
Volcarona @ Lum Berry
Ability: Soul Heart
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Quiver Dance
- Fire Blast
- Bug Buzz
- Giga Drain / Roost
Forgoing Magic Guard makes Stealth Rock more of a bummer, but Soul Heart will make it an incredibly potent late game cleaner, getting more powerful with each KO.
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Avoiding all status problem except sleep maybe is too much...
Magic Bounce bounces back status and hazards though
Sleep is still one of the worst ones to be affected by though, as it's basically a free turn for your opponent. Who knows, it may end up being banned eventually but right now I don't think it's broken. If there's an auto Psychic terrain a la Tapu Koko, I think that could be more potent - on stuff like Alakazam and Trick Room Reuniclus, being immune to priority is massive, not to mention having a 1.5 boost to their STABs. Auto Misty Terrain could be interesting too.
I think his point may come from the fact it also stops status that come as secondary effects... and it happens that only Relic Song and a specific Secret Power have sleep as a secondary target, so you are immune to practically every way to status a Pokemon.
Still not significant enough IMO.
Still not significant enough IMO.
A new trailer got posted today, and the starter final forms were announced, with some other cool stuff as well
(STABMONS AND BH) Decidueye's signature move seems like it will be really cool because it's going to be Ghost-type Thousand Waves, and Incineroar's signature move might not see that much use except for dealing with Stored Power, although a way to deal with Baton Pass very efficiently in AG provided Incineroar itself's stats aren't meme tier. Primarina's signature move probably won't see any use whatsoever because it gets rid of burns, which will be disadvantageous to say the least.
(ALMOST ANY ABILITY AND BH) Psychic Terrain (completely blocks priority) itself is now confirmed thanks to Tapu Lele, which gets an ability to automatically set it. This could be very powerful and finally remove Atespeed from the pedestal it was on for basically the entirety of Gen 6 BH.
Grassy Surge probably won't see any use outside of the odd niche/meme team in general, same with Misty Surge
(IN GENERAL) All four Tapus also share a unique Z-Move, which aside from how it will be used in competitive, is giving me some major Four Giants from Majora's Mask vibes
Not sure if Cosmog will see any use anywhere, but the fact it has Unaware could help it a lot if it has the stats to get over its poor defensive typing
(STABMONS AND BH) Decidueye's signature move seems like it will be really cool because it's going to be Ghost-type Thousand Waves, and Incineroar's signature move might not see that much use except for dealing with Stored Power, although a way to deal with Baton Pass very efficiently in AG provided Incineroar itself's stats aren't meme tier. Primarina's signature move probably won't see any use whatsoever because it gets rid of burns, which will be disadvantageous to say the least.
(ALMOST ANY ABILITY AND BH) Psychic Terrain (completely blocks priority) itself is now confirmed thanks to Tapu Lele, which gets an ability to automatically set it. This could be very powerful and finally remove Atespeed from the pedestal it was on for basically the entirety of Gen 6 BH.
Grassy Surge probably won't see any use outside of the odd niche/meme team in general, same with Misty Surge
(IN GENERAL) All four Tapus also share a unique Z-Move, which aside from how it will be used in competitive, is giving me some major Four Giants from Majora's Mask vibes
Not sure if Cosmog will see any use anywhere, but the fact it has Unaware could help it a lot if it has the stats to get over its poor defensive typing
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Don't count on it if it has the same BST as normal Persian. Normal Persian is 440 while Furfrou is 472. And both have the same base Defense stat of 60. It'll at least need some numbers shuffled around.
Also, I just realized... Gen I will be able to transfer to Gen VII. Which means, all those weird TMs that've not seen the light of day will probably be available again. Whirlwind, Body Slam, Horn Drill, Fissure, Mimic, and Tri Attack may have a bit wider distribution, which may be relevant to some metas, such as AG for the OHKO moves. Some of the other moves might have use too perhaps.
Also, I just realized... Gen I will be able to transfer to Gen VII. Which means, all those weird TMs that've not seen the light of day will probably be available again. Whirlwind, Body Slam, Horn Drill, Fissure, Mimic, and Tri Attack may have a bit wider distribution, which may be relevant to some metas, such as AG for the OHKO moves. Some of the other moves might have use too perhaps.