Gen 7 OM Competitive Discussion

HotFuzzBall

fuzzy-chan \(ㆁヮㆁ✿)
is an Artist
Hmm my thoughts so far. Tapu Lele (The Psychic/Fairy Alolan Guardian) looks really strong. Having access to Psychic Terrain makes it immune to Sucker Punch and other priority moves (there's a lot in the OU tier) making this mon hard to revenge kill.

As for the starters...

Decidueye looks like it might fall around RU/NU imo. Grass/Ghost typing is very unique, but the existing Grass/Ghost types have been quite underwhelming so far. I think if it has a good speed tier and offensive stats (which it looks like it might) then this mon will definitely be really good.

Incineroar is a weird one for me, just by appearances it looks like an RU mon mainly because of the comparison to Houndoom. I feel like this mon might outclass Emboar since I feel like Icineroar might be a bulkier Fire type similarly to Emboar.

Primarina might fall into either OU or UU mainly because Water/Fairy is pretty good offensively and defensively (as shown with Azumarill). That's all I can really say at this point lol...
 
Hmm my thoughts so far. Tapu Lele (The Psychic/Fairy Alolan Guardian) looks really strong. Having access to Psychic Terrain makes it immune to Sucker Punch and other priority moves (there's a lot in the OU tier) making this mon hard to revenge kill.

As for the starters...

Decidueye looks like it might fall around RU/NU imo. Grass/Ghost typing is very unique, but the existing Grass/Ghost types have been quite underwhelming so far. I think if it has a good speed tier and offensive stats (which it looks like it might) then this mon will definitely be really good.

Incineroar is a weird one for me, just by appearances it looks like an RU mon mainly because of the comparison to Houndoom. I feel like this mon might outclass Emboar since I feel like Icineroar might be a bulkier Fire type similarly to Emboar.

Primarina might fall into either OU or UU mainly because Water/Fairy is pretty good offensively and defensively (as shown with Azumarill). That's all I can really say at this point lol...
I think we gotta wait a bit to see what HAs these starters get before placing them into tiers. If it wasn't for HAs, Greninja wouldn't be Ubers, and Serperior wouldn't have jumped from the very bottom tier to the top. Although I do agree with you on your analysis of the starter's archetypes and stats.
 
Don't count on it if it has the same BST as normal Persian. Normal Persian is 440 while Furfrou is 472. And both have the same base Defense stat of 60. It'll at least need some numbers shuffled around.


Also, I just realized... Gen I will be able to transfer to Gen VII. Which means, all those weird TMs that've not seen the light of day will probably be available again. Whirlwind, Body Slam, Horn Drill, Fissure, Mimic, and Tri Attack may have a bit wider distribution, which may be relevant to some metas, such as AG for the OHKO moves. Some of the other moves might have use too perhaps.
Something that might be relevant for Mix and Mega is Altarianite Tri-Attack Starmie, which also has an unblockable Rapid Spin. Still pretty gimmicky though. If transferred mons can get Hidden Abilities there is also Softboiled Unaware Clefable and Body Slam Sheer Force Tauros for standard metas.
 

Plague von Karma

Banned deucer.
When is Sun/Moon OU coming on Showdown anyway? I'd love to see the currently known Pokemon and Moves being introduced onto a "prototype" system. We know what Psychic Terrain can do, and Ash-Greninja is obvious enough.


Oh, and here are some Basic Doubles and OU Core ideas. Note that these contain a LOT of speculation, and thus some moves may not be usable. However, the ones that are speculated are mainly attacking moves, so it shouldn't affect anything in the grand scheme of things.

Tapu Koko x Alolan Raichu
Using Tapu Koko as a Terrain Setter who switches out. Nature's Madness is a new Super Fang, so it makes for some nice support. Raichu-Alola sounds like a great user of Electric Terrain, so he's obviously around. Oh, and Komala is here because he can't get statused at all thanks to Electric Terrain preventing sleep.

Tapu Koko @ Pixie Plate/Life Orb/Focus Sash
Timid Nature
Ability: Electric Surge
Moves:
- Dazzling Gleam
- Nature's Madness
- Volt Switch
- Protect
EVs: 252 Sp.Atk/252 Speed/4 HP

Raichu-Alola @ Raichulium (or whatever the Z-Stone is called)
Timid Nature
Ability: Surge Surfer
Moves:
- Thunder (for the Z-Move)
- Psyshock (STAB)
- Grass Knot
- Protect
EVs: 252 Sp.Atk/252 Speed/4 HP

Komala @ Leftovers
Impish Nature
Ability: Comatose
Moves:
- Return
- Wood Hammer (Idk man)
- Coverage move
- Protect


Tapu Fini x Whimsicott
Interesting Doubles Core idea here. Tapu Fini looks like she'll be alright, but as of now I have this spread. I paired this with Whimsicott so Whimsi can spam a STAB Nature Power ~ Moonblast with Priority. Given Tapu Fini is an obvious Dragon Counter, I'm not sure if this'll shine too much. Why is she a Dragon Counter? Misty Terrain halves the power of all Dragon Type Moves, and her typing tells you enough already. I can definitely see this being used with Rain a little bit though.

Tapu Fini @ Tapulium (Z-Stone)
Timid Nature
Ability: Misty Surge
Moves:
- Moonblast
- Surf/Hydro Pump
- Nature's Madness
- Protect
EVs: 252 Sp.Atk/252 Speed/4 HP

Whimsicott @ Focus Sash
Timid Nature
Ability: Prankster
Moves:
- Nature Power (priority because of Prankster, becomes Moonblast in Misty Terrain)
- Encore
- Tailwind
- Hurricane (so Psychic Terrain or Tsareena don't screw it over, and yes it gets this)
EVs: 252 Sp.Atk/252 Speed/4 HP


Eevee Support
This one is made for Single Battles. Eevee into anything is a true combo. Why did they give Eevee Geomancy on Steroids anyway? I was expecting this to be on Pikachu.

Eevee @ Eeveelium
Jolly Nature
Ability: Adaptability
Moves:
- Return
- Baton Pass
- Protect
- Heal Bell
EVs: 252 Attack/252 Speed/4 Defense


Pikachu
No matter how many times Game Freak buff Pikachu, he'll never be good. But hey, may as well make a set for it.

Pikachu @ Pikachium
Jolly Nature
Ability: Lightningrod
Moves:
- Volt Tackle
- Grass Knot
- Knock Off
- Protect
EVs: 252 Attack/252 Speed/4 HP


Broken Zygarde
Oh boy. Literally the most broken set I can think of. Use Dragon Dance, live the 1st hit guaranteed, proceed to obliterate the opponent with Complete Form Zygarde. Should work thanks to 10% Zygarde's awful defenses (at least that's what's implied), and it looks like this'll break everything in the game. Simple coverage with a DD Boosted Complete Zygarde.

Zygarde-10% @ Focus Sash
Jolly Nature
Ability: Power Construct
Moves:
- Dragon Dance
- Core Enforcer
- Thousand Arrows
- Extremespeed
EVs: 252 Attack/252 Speed/4 HP


Passimian Setup
Unusual concept for Single Battles. Semi-Stall Shedinja to make the most of him, and Passimian does something crazy.

Shedinja @ Focus Sash
Adamant Nature
Ability: Wonder Guard (duh)
Moves:
- Hone Claws
- Shadow Sneak
- X-Scissor
- Protect
EVs: 252 Attack/252 Speed/4 HP (lol)

Passimian @ King's Rock
Jolly Nature
Ability: Receiver (gets Wonder Guard on switch-in from Shedinja)
Moves:
- Close Combat
- Taunt
- Fling (Turns into a move that flinches the opponent thanks to King's Rock)
- Coverage Move
EVs: 252 Attack/252 Speed/4 Defense


Oranguru x Garchomp
Doubles Setup that exploits Oranguru to the max. Oranguru was made into a mixed wall. It's something that has worked for me, but you can make your own EV Spread if you want to: it's just an idea. Anyway, Garchomp is made to use Earthquake twice, and not affect Oranguru thanks to it's access to Telepathy. Don't believe me? Look it up. Garchomp has many item ideas thanks to it's diversity, so you can either go Sandstorm x Sand Force x Earthquake Mega Garchomp nuke or go basic with Rocky Helmet or Yache Berry. It's your choice!

Oranguru @ Chesto Berry
Bold Nature
Ability: Telepathy
Moves:
- Instruct
- Psychic
- Hyper Voice
- Rest
EVs: 252 HP/128 Defense/128 Sp.Def

Garchomp @ Rocky Helmet/Yache Berry/Garchompite
Jolly Nature
Ability: Rough Skin
Moves:
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw
- Iron Head
- Protect
 
Something that might be relevant for Mix and Mega is Altarianite Tri-Attack Starmie, which also has an unblockable Rapid Spin. Still pretty gimmicky though. If transferred mons can get Hidden Abilities there is also Softboiled Unaware Clefable and Body Slam Sheer Force Tauros for standard metas.
Clefable can't learn Soft-boiled in 1st gen. The only 2 Pokemon that could learn it back then were Chansey and Mew. FRLG added it's line(And togepi's) to the list of teachable Pokemon.
 

Dunfan

formerly Dunsparce Fanboy
New mons looks nice, now i'm thinking about some Mix and Mega sets(note that is just theory) :
Tapu Lele @ Cameruptite
Ability: Psychic Surge
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 [Whatever you like]
- Trick Room
- Moonblast
- Psychic
- Filler

Tapu Lele @ Scizorite
Ability: Psychic Surge
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 [Whatever you like]
- Draining Kiss
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power Ground
- Calm Mind

I'm seeing myself in one year on the OM room, saying "Remember when Mix and Mega was a meta full of Extremespeed users ?", and that's why.
Sure, Zygarde gets a boost with Thousand Arrows and Thousand Waves, but, hopefully, Tapu Lele is there. This thing seems to get decent enough stats.
Set N°1 : Use you ability to block all positive priority move, use Trick Room to reverse the speed tiers, and now, let's just sweep.
Set N°2 : Calm Mind for setup and Draining Kiss for STAB heal. Psyshock is for strong STAB, Hidden Power Ground is for coverage, and... that's all, really.
I'm not sure, but if Prankster-boosted moves aren't blocked by Psychic Surge, Banettite + Nature Power can be very good.
Both sets seems to be good partners for Hoopa-Unbound.

Tapu Fini @ Sceptilite
Ability: Misty Surge
Timit Nature
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 [Whatever you like]
- Calm Mind
- Hydro Pump / Scald
- Ice Beam
- Filler

Honestly, it's the only set that come to my mind.
Sure, Misty Surge is good against stall, but i can't see anything else than Calm Mind.
Tapu Fini is an easy bait for Electric type moves, Sceptilite make it able to outpass that weakness.
Misty Surge also halves the power of Dragon moves, so don't worry about the Dragon weakness.
EDIT : Since this thing can't be paralysed due to Misty Surge, a Blazikenite Calm Mind set may be far better than Sceptilite.

Tapu Bulu @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Grassy Surge
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
EVs: EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 [Whatever you like]
- Trick Room
- Solar Beam
- Hidden Power Fire
- Filler

We're back to the Trick Room sets.
Well... It's the story of a Pokemon using three field effects at the same time.
That's all. Solar Beam is a nuke, and that's all. That's all because this set is hard countered by everything that has a Blue Orb.
Maybe an Aggronite Set would be better, but it's really weak to Fire...
If Tapu Bulu can learn physical Grass type moves, Charizardite X would be nice, maybe.
 
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On the topic of Silvally in STABmons, I believe the consensus in Uber STABmons was that Arceus only gets Normal moves because fuck the alternative. I imagine STABmons will approach Silvally the same way. This could even be justified in that their type changes require them to hold an item, thus preventing them from "naturally" being that type.
 
I'm not really a big Mix and Mega fan, but I'll put in my two cents about things, cause it has pretty good theorymonning potential. There are a lot of new pokemon with abilities that activate based on HP so it could be cool to figure out a way to take advantage of them. I'm making a lot of assumptions in this post so be wary.

Mimikyu seems pretty neat in Mix and Mega, it can stay non-mega to retain its ability, then after being hit it can go Mega. The downside here is that it needs to take at least one turn in its non-mega'd form, meaning it probably won't be able to do much, but I can see it getting mileage against offensive teams. As for the mega stone itself, maybe Cameruptite if it gets Moonblast, Scizorite or Metagrossite if it gets Shadow Sneak, it really depends.

Drampa is another one that's potentially cool: it gets the ability Berzerk which boosts its Special Attack if its HP drops below half. What I'm thinking is that it can use Substitute to lower its HP to half, then go mega and begin attacking. My main concern is that it's going to be really slow, so maybe something like Blazikenite is a good fit for it. Probably not super viable due to -ateshit but in theory it doesn't sound too bad. Altarianite might be pretty good too cause it will obviously get a special Normal move.

Wishiwashi seems actually really viable because it can presumably get around the downside of its ability? Apparently Schooling makes Wishiwashi revert to its regular form after receiving a certain amount of damage, but it you go mega and lose that ability, you might not revert at all. So that could be totally exploitable.

One liners: Heracronite Tapu Bulu w/ Bullet Seed, Trick Room?
Scizorite Lycanroc: Accelerock, Rock Tomb, Bulldoze, Filler
Minior: Take a hit as your shields go down and you set up with Shell Smash, then go Mega and begin sweeping. You lose out on Acrobatics though.
Decidueye: If Spirit Shackle is ~60 BST then Scizorite with Shadow Sneak + Bullet Seed could be neat
Lucarionite Kommo-o
Diancite Tapu Lele: even though your defenses become paper thin, psychic terrain protects you from priority
 

Lcass4919

The Xatu Warrior
On the topic of Silvally in STABmons, I believe the consensus in Uber STABmons was that Arceus only gets Normal moves because fuck the alternative. I imagine STABmons will approach Silvally the same way. This could even be justified in that their type changes require them to hold an item, thus preventing them from "naturally" being that type.
actually it only gets normal because its "forme" change doesn't actually alter until in-battle. arceus with pixie plate is still normal type until its in battle, thus, can only be given normal moves rks-mon-thing will almost 100% act the same way. its a matter of "mechanics" and not "just because". similar to primal don and how it doesnt get fire moves, since its not a fire type until its in battle and the forme change actually happens.
 
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actually it only gets normal because its "forme" change doesn't actually alter until in-battle. arceus with pixie plate is still normal type until its in battle, thus, can only be given normal moves rks-mon-thing will almost 100% act the same way. its a matter of "mechanics" and not "just because". similar to primal don and how it doesnt get fire moves, since its not a fire type until its in battle and the forme change actually happens.
Uber Stabmons is Stabmons+, so that's not actually the reason. They were denied those because they would have to be banned otherwise. Now, you almost certainly won't get all types on silvally, but that isn't the precedent to follow.
 
Welp, the starter stats and movepools have been datamined, courtesy of the Youtube channel Kaphotics, this is the same guy who leaked all the pokemon sprites i think. You can watch his video here:

Decidueye's base stats are: 78 HP, 107 Atk, 75 Def, 100 SpA, 100 SpD, 70 Spe Ability: Long Reach (None of Decidueye's moves make contact)
Incineroar's base stats are: 95 HP, 115 Atk, 90 Def, 80 SpA, 90 SpD, 60 Spe Ability: Intimidate
Primarina's base stats are: 80 HP, 74 Atk, 74 Def, 126 SpA, 116 SpD, 60 Spe Ability: Liquid Voice (All sound based moves turn into water type)

Now for their signature moves:
Spirit Shackle is base 80 power with 100% accuracy, physical, ghost, and prevents the target from switching out.
Darkest Lariat is base 85 power with 100% accuracy, physical, dark, ignores the target's defense boosts.
Sparkling Aria is base 90 power with 100% accuracy, special, water, heals the target's burn

Also, some moves have changed and new moves have been added, here are the most notable: (i'll highlight the new moves and changes to old moves)
Throat Chop: 80bp, 100% acc, physical, dark, target cannot use sound-based moves for 2 turns (suck it Primarina lmao)
Brutal Swing: 60bp, 100% acc, physical, dark, hits all targets on the field, imagine it like a dark-type surf, it's also a new TM - TM59
Leech Life: 80bp, 100% acc, physical, bug, heals 1/2 of the damage done to the opponent, Leech life is now TM29
Sucker Punch: 70bp, 100% acc, physical, dark, +1 priority but fails if the opponent doesnt attack
Swagger: --bp, 85% acc, status, sharply raises opponent's attack but causes confusion
I think those are the most notable ones, sorry if i missed any

Discuss!!!
 
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Notable moves each starter can learn: (especially notable moves in bold)

Decidueye:
Baton Pass, Defog, Spirit Shackle, U-turn (cant be punished by rocky helmet), Roost, Sucker Punch, Leaf Blade, Brave Bird, Nasty Plot, Swords Dance, Shadow Ball

Incineroar:
Nasty Plot, Fake Out, Darkest Lariat, Bulk Up, Throat Chop, Flare Blitz, Cross Chop, Outrage, Taunt, Earthquake, Brick Break, Fire Blast, Will-o-wisp, Swords Dance, U-turn, Dark Pulse (still dont understand why this guy cannot learn sucker punch D: cri)

Primarina:
Amnesia, Perish Song, Sparkling Aria, Encore, Hyper Voice, Moonblast, Hydro Pump, Ice Beam, Energy Ball, SCALD
 
Notable moves each starter can learn: (especially notable moves in bold)

Decidueye:
Baton Pass, Defog, Spirit Shackle, U-turn (cant be punished by rocky helmet), Roost, Sucker Punch, Leaf Blade, Brave Bird, Nasty Plot, Swords Dance, Shadow Ball

Incineroar:
Nasty Plot, Fake Out, Darkest Lariat, Bulk Up, Throat Chop, Flare Blitz, Cross Chop, Outrage, Taunt, Earthquake, Brick Break, Fire Blast, Will-o-wisp, Swords Dance, U-turn, Dark Pulse (still dont understand why this guy cannot learn sucker punch D: cri)

Primarina:
Amnesia, Perish Song, Sparkling Aria, Encore, Hyper Voice, Moonblast, Hydro Pump, Ice Beam, Energy Ball, SCALD
Does Decidueye not learn any Grass support moves like Leech Seed, Sleep Powder, etc.? If so that's kinda disappointing, although the moves Decidueye do have are still really nice, but it'd be able to use them better if it was FASTER. Regardless I can imagine Spirit Shackle + U-Turn being useful and and Spirit Shackle, Roost, Swords Dance/Nasty Plot, Baton Pass will probably be some gimmick set.
 

Funbot28

Banned deucer.
609.png

I am actually pretty saddened that this thing is actually slower than Meganium lol. 70 Speed is pretty low for a supposeively offensive mon that Gamefreak hyped up this thing to be, but in the end they decided to make it more of a bulky setup mon due to the amount of good setup moves it gets in Swords Dance and Nasty Plot and recovery in Roost. Spirit Shackle is still an amazing move for it and its ability is nice to block contact damage from stuff like Lando-T and Garchomo (however its not the most useful ability tbh). Its Z-Move with Spirit Shackle seems to be pretty good as its a base 180 move that disallows ur opponent to switch which is pretty neat. I hyped myself too much for Decidueye I guess, cause the rest of its stats are alright, but its speed is pretty supbar. Hope it gets Spore/Sleep Powder.

615.png

Inceneroar was also another mon that I thought would have been a bit faster as well (not too fast but not 60 speed either). Although it pertains quite a useful movepool with moves such as Flare Blitz, Cross Chop, Earthquake, Swords Dance and U-Turn (rip no Sucker Punch) and has great 95/90/90 bulk with 115 Attack which lets it be another good bulky setup sweeper especially since it also has Intimidate which gives it even more setup opportunities. The lack of STAB priority does hamper it though as it will always need to take a hit in order to do damage against most offensive mons. I could also see this thing run a Nasty Plot set and s Scarf set with U-Turn, Flare Blitz, Darkest Lariat, and Earthquake or Cross Chop with Intimidate. This thing seems to be pretty good apart from the low speed.
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First lol at the 87.5% male chance (not assuming gender roles, but still i think GF wanted us to believe this thing was supposed to be more feminine). Anyways, Primirina seems to be a bulky support mon with a nice Water/Fairy typing (rip Milotic), with good 80/74/116 bulk. It also has a very good 126 Sp.Atk stat with amazing offensive moves such as Moonblast, Ice Beam, Energy Ball, Scald and Hyper Voice. The last move is important as it pertains a sort of basically a Water -ate ability that transforms only sound moves into Water type moves. I am kinda iffy on this as we still dont know if it gives a 30% boost like normal -ate abilities do so I still have to see on this because if not, Scald will always be the better option assuming ti does not get nerfed (please nerf it though...). And lol at its signature move, does the opposite of what a bulky water mon should be doing in burning shit, see no use of this move tbh. Hope it gets a reliable recover move.

Also the nerf to Dark Void does mean that sleep wont be as much of an issue in SuMo BH which is always good. This also means that Darkrai could actually have the chance to return from Ubers due to the fact that its main niche was to sleep stuff and set up on the targeted mons and weaken them with Bad Dreams. It also was found that the move seems to be now hardcoded onto Darkrai, meaning that Smeargle and Dark types in STABmons could no longer use the move, so I think we can unban that in STABmon come Gen 7.

Like nv said on PS, I feel the mechanic changes will have more of an impact then the mons themselves :/
 
Kaphotics has just uploaded a bunch of vids datamining a whole range of other Pokemon! I'm currently in the process of watching them so i might edit this comment after watching all of them. Check out his channel to watch it for yourselves!
 
Man, the liquid voice ability will be wicked in BH, meaning you can have an -ate user like mega-diancie and a powerful water type such as palkia, which has the highest SPA and speed of any water type, with boomburst on it and liquid voice to rip steels apart. You can even put boomburst on an -ate mon and double the same mon with liquid voice to mind game your opponent as well. In fact I could see water absorb steel types becoming a thing to counter both of these, but that would be severely rough on stall and balance teams that use steel to wall -ate users.

Throat chop can effectively counter this stuff though, perhaps the new steel wall movesets would look something like
registeel @ safety goggles/leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
- Heal Order
- U-turn/Spore
- Throat chop/U-turn/Knock Off
Parting Shot/Heal Bell
or
Registeel @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator/Water Absorb
Nuzzle/Knock Off
Throat Chop
Clear Smog
U-turn
 
Man, the liquid voice ability will be wicked in BH, meaning you can have an -ate user like mega-diancie and a powerful water type such as palkia, which has the highest SPA and speed of any water type, with boomburst on it and liquid voice to rip steels apart.
You'd get better results from Primordial Sea + Steam Eruption -- even if Liquid Voice does grant a 1.3x power boost, it only barely outdamages Steam Eruption in the rain, and it has no burn chance.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyogre Steam Eruption vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Celebi in Rain: 246-291 (72.1 - 85.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Liquid Voice Kyogre Boomburst vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Celebi: 209-246 (61.2 - 72.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Liquid Voice Kyogre Boomburst vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Celebi: 272-320 (79.7 - 93.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (with 1.3x boost)

Not to mention that Soundproof is a thing.

I guess it could have some niche utility as a lure, but nothing spectacular.
 
From the other videos:
Pyukumuku has Unaware as its HA and pretty decent 55/130/130 bulk , it may see some use in AG because of that
Comatose might allow you to attack while asleep, judging from its description. Makes me glad Suicune was banned from AAA.
Alolan Golem has Galvanize (Electric -ate) as its HA, and Galvanize could make Zekrom rather threatening in BH
The anchor has an ability that boosts the power of its Steel moves, not sure who this would work on
Night Lycanroc has No Guard, so it won't be completely outclassed by Day Lycanroc
We definitely overrated Complete Zygarde. The only base stat it has higher than regular Zygarde's is its HP. It's slower than normal Zygarde too. Still, I could see it being a good tank because of its base 216 HP.
The sea Urchin has a new ability that causes all moves on poisoned Pokemon to be crits. This will be great for countering Poison Heal abusers in BH/AAA.
Marshadow could see some use in, well, every tier it will be usable in, because it has the long-awaited Ghost/Fighting type, giving it perfect coverage, in tandem with Technician.
The Ultra Beasts have stats, types, etc. The Guzma-looking one could see a lot of use as a nuke, with base 173 Special Attack and all. Katana (at least at least that's what I think its name is) may also see a lot of use as a physical nuke, with 181 base Attack and 109 base Speed.
 

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