Gen 7 OM Competitive Discussion

[Chloe]

Dark void's accuracy is lowered to 50%, and I don't think anyone will ever use it again in AG.

I wrote this three months ago, almost three months prior to the Dark Void nerf being mentioned. At the time, Darkrai was thought to remain as an extremely relevant threat. That being said, Darkrai's viability has turned to almost zero, where you have Hypnosis being a more valid option than Dark Void due to the additional 10% in accuracy. So you're correct, but please don't correct a statement that was made prior to the knowledge of this nerf, especially when the nerf has been made quite apparent since.

I guess I'll just keep talking about AG because I have no better way to spend the next few hours.

Solgaleo | Steel/Psychic | 137/137/107/113/89/97 | Ability: Full Metal Body

Solgaleo is much more than a decent Xerneas check with recovery. Its utility may not seem to be quite substantial at first; however, under further inspection, it is evident that Solgaleo has more than just a few tricks. This is what I expect to see running around in AG.

Defensive Sets

Specially Defensive:

Solgaleo @ Leftovers
Ability: Full Metal Body
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Sunsteel Strike
- Stone Edge
- Morning Sun
- Metal Burst / Thunder Wave / Toxic

Specially Defensive Set mainly for tanking two +2 Moonblasts from Xerneas, while having a high chance to live two +2 Focus Blasts. It also has the offensive capability of 2HKOing Xerneas, while OHKOing Ho-Oh. The 8 Atk EVs are actually required to gain the guaranteed OHKO on standard Ho-Oh EVs from this generation. Morning Sun allows it to recovery its health back so Xerneas can't whittle it down over time and then overwhelm it eventually. Metal Burst can be useful as +2 Focus Blast Xerneas is OHKO'd back when hit by it. It also allows Solgaleo to OHKO Kyogre back after being hit by Origin Pulse; however, it should be weary that the Kyogre may be slower. If one does opt for Metal Burst, running less IVs to be under 216 Speed may be a good idea. Thunder Wave allows for speed control when the only Pokémon outspeeding at half is Deoxys-Speed. Toxic allows Solgaleo to help take down some support/Calm Mind Arceus formes Solgaleo could otherwise not touch.

8 Atk Solgaleo Sunsteel Strike vs. 184 HP / 28 Def Xerneas: 288-342 (65.6 - 77.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
8 Atk Solgaleo Sunsteel Strike vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Fairy: 242-288 (54.6 - 65%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
8 Atk Solgaleo Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Ho-Oh: 416-492 (100.2 - 118.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
8 Atk Solgaleo Sunsteel Strike vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Clefable: 372-438 (94.6 - 111.4%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
8 Atk Solgaleo Sunsteel Strike vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 528-624 (219 - 258.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Solgaleo: 89-105 (18.6 - 22%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Xerneas Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Solgaleo: 113-133 (23.6 - 27.8%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Solgaleo: 177-208 (37.1 - 43.6%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Solgaleo: 225-265 (47.1 - 55.5%) -- 19.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Primal Kyogre Origin Pulse vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Solgaleo in Heavy Rain: 295-348 (61.8 - 72.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Physically Defensive:

Solgaleo @ Leftovers
Ability: Full Metal Body
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
IVs: 16 Spe
- Metal Burst
- Sunsteel Strike
- Roar
- Morning Sun

This thing can live the majority of the metagame's attacks and OHKO back with Metal Burst.
252+ Atk Mega Rayquaza V-create vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Solgaleo: 378-446 (79.2 - 93.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Primal Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Solgaleo: 378-446 (79.2 - 93.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Ho-Oh Sacred Fire vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Solgaleo: 372-438 (77.9 - 91.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Solgaleo: 318-375 (66.6 - 78.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Arceus Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Solgaleo: 367-434 (76.9 - 90.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Spooky Plate Arceus-Ghost Shadow Force vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Solgaleo: 336-396 (70.4 - 83%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

The issue is that with this set, after you Metal Burst you're usually left useless for the remainder of the match. Unless you can send it in on Fairy Arceus or something passive later on, you just wasted your Solgaleo taking out one Pokémon. This would also be quite useful in some scenarios, if the majority of Pokémon listed above didn't have access to boosting moves. The best thing Solgaleo can do then is phaze, which isn't quite the utility you'd hope for in this Pokémon.

Offensive Sets

Standard Offensive

Solgaleo @ Life Orb
Ability: Full Metal Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 56 SpD / 200 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sunsteel Strike
- Flare Blitz
- Stone Edge / Rock Tomb
- Morning Sun / Wild Charge / Flame Charge

Standard offensive set allows Solgaleo to pick up OHKOs on Xerneas, Arceus-Fairy, Diancie-Mega and Ho-Oh with ease, while 2HKOing the remainder of the metagame. Solgaleo would love an extra moveslot; however, it can still achieve many things with the four moves listed here. Sunsteel Strike is the main STAB used here, and allows Solgaleo to hit through Lugia and Lunala's respective abilities. Flare Blitz allows Solgaleo to hit Ferrothorn, Skarmory and Bronzong for full, while providing more solid coverage as Steel has many resists. Stone Edge/Rock Tomb rounds out the coverage and allows Solgaleo to hit Ho-Oh or Yveltal on the switch-in. Rock Tomb OHKOs Ho-Oh and decreases Yveltal's speed to under Solgaleo's. 2x Rock Tomb does often OHKO offensive Yveltal sets, but one should be weary of Sucker Punch and the potential low roll. Morning Sun provides Solgaleo with the chance to live longer in the game as well as increased recovery against Groudon switch-ins. Wild Charge and Flame Charge are alternate options that enable Solgaleo to do random things like help with checking Choice Scarf Kyogre or Primal Kyogre depending on the option chosen. Speed is invested at 200 to outspeed 252 Spe Neutral Natured Base 90s.

252+ Atk Life Orb Solgaleo Sunsteel Strike vs. 184 HP / 28 Def Xerneas: 491-580 (111.8 - 132.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Solgaleo Sunsteel Strike vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Fairy: 416-491 (93.9 - 110.8%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Solgaleo Sunsteel Strike vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Clefable: 632-743 (160.8 - 189%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Solgaleo Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Ferrothorn: 619-728 (175.8 - 206.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Solgaleo Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 221-263 (66.1 - 78.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Solgaleo Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Bronzong: 343-406 (101.4 - 120.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Solgaleo Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Ho-Oh: 707-837 (170.3 - 201.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Solgaleo Stone Edge vs. 132 HP / 0 Def Yveltal: 338-400 (79.3 - 93.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Solgaleo Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 120+ Def Lugia: 161-191 (38.7 - 45.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (Lugia can only Whirlwind back)
252+ Atk Life Orb Solgaleo Sunsteel Strike vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 208-246 (54.4 - 64.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Choice Band

Solgaleo @ Choice Band
Ability: Full Metal Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 56 SpD / 200 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sunsteel Strike
- Earthquake
- Flare Blitz
- Stone Edge / Wild Charge

Choice Band hits Solgaleo hits like a bus. Sunsteel Strike OHKOs every fairy in the game, and acts as Lion's main STAB. Thanks to Choice Band, Earthquake can now 2HKO Support Primal Groudon as well as deal with the abundance of Steel types in the metagame bar Skarmory, Ferrothorn and Bronzong. This is why Flare Blitz is listed as a third move as it allows Solgaleo to hit the majority of the metagame for huge damage when the added to the aforementioned moves. Things that remain untouched by the above coverage include Ho-Oh and Primal Kyogre. This is why Stone Edge and Wild Charge are listed as potential fourth moves. Stone Edge OHKOs Ho-Oh guaranteed and Wild Charge deals massive damage to Primal Kyogre. Both moves also allow Solgaleo to 2HKO Defensive Yveltal. The EVs are used to outspeed 252 Spe Neutral Natured Base 90s. Max Attack to ensure maximum damage output against opponents while remainder put in Special Defense so it can come in on Xerneas's attacks with ease.

Only including those from the previous calcs that didn't OHKO:
252+ Atk Choice Band Solgaleo Sunsteel Strike vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Fairy: 480-566 (108.3 - 127.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Solgaleo Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 256-302 (76.6 - 90.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Solgaleo Stone Edge vs. 132 HP / 0 Def Yveltal: 390-460 (91.5 - 107.9%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Solgaleo Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 120+ Def Lugia: 186-219 (44.7 - 52.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Solgaleo Sunsteel Strike vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 240-283 (62.8 - 74%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

As evident above, it doesn't pick up many more OHKOs/2HKOs; however, extra power will always be beneficial in some scenarios.

Choice Scarf

Solgaleo @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Full Metal Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sunsteel Strike
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Flare Blitz

Choice Scarf can be used to outspeed many prevalent threats, while still dealing massive damage. By using maximum speed investment at a neutral nature, it can outspeed max speed Deoxys-Attack, and is only outsped by Deoxys-Speed, Pheromosa and Ninjask. Solgaleo should be weary of switching in on Knock Off, but otherwise it has a lot of fun playing against Deoxys-Attack. Especially if the potential playstyle of Tapu Lele + Deoxys-A spam becomes a thing, Scarf Solgaleo could be more of a potent threat than anticipated. This set is pretty self explanatory otherwise. Hits fast with nice offensive coverage.

Psych Up

Solgaleo @ Leftovers
Ability: Full Metal Body
EVs: 162 HP / 252 SpA / 96 Spe
Modest Nature
- Flash Cannon
- Psych Up
- Morning Sun
- Psyshock / Thunderbolt / Calm Mind / Roar

As people started to run Psych Up Poisonceus, this might potentially become a thing. Flash Cannon, Psych Up and Morning Sun are quite self explanatory. AKA set up on Geomancy Xerneas, and then kill it. Solgaleo has such bad 4MSS with this set. It would love to run more than one of the last moves listed. Psyshock allows Solgaleo to hit Special walls like Blissey, Chansey, Ho-Oh and Kyogre; Thunderbolt hits the latter two better but struggles with Blissey and Chansey; Calm Mind allows further setup before you take it out, potentially the best option here; Roar gets rid of Xerneas's boosts and allows Solgaleo to "steal" its boosts. For once Solgaleo can actually benefit from its ability, as Moonblast won't drop SpA and Focus Blast won't drop SpD. The EVs allow Solgaleo to outspeed standard Geomancy Xerneas.

 

[Neverman]

On the matter of Balanced Hackmons Zekrom:

I believe Electric Surge will be better than Galvanize because

1) x1.5 boost on Electric attacks is better than x1.3 on Normal-Turned-Into-Electric attacks
2) With Dazzling/Psychic Surge/Queenly Majesty almost all forms of priority tend to be less dominant, this might mean the end of FakeSpeed -ate and the beginning of Frustration/Return -ate
3) If my assumption above is right, then Bolt Strike with a 1.5 boost is better than a 0 priority move 100 base power with 1.3 boost
4) Electric Terrain gives Sleep Immunity

BH sets for Hoopa and Hoopa-Unbound:


Hoopa @ Flame Orb
Ability: Quick Feet
- Stored Power
- Shell Smash
- Moongeist Beam
-

Flame Orb + Quick Feet is Imposter-Proof. Shell Smash + Stored Power is basic raw power buffed by Psychic STAB. Moongeist is STAB and also is 4x Super Effective on Imposter plus it is anti-Sturdinja and anti-Unaware as far as i know.

Hoopa-Unbound @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Quick Feet
- Stored Power
- Shell Smash
- Power Trip
- Sunsteel Strike

It's the same strategy as above replacing Flame Orb for Toxic Orb because i want Power Trip (Dark Physical clone of Stored Power) to deal as much damage as possible. Sunsteel Strike over Moongeist Beam because Power Trip already has a coverage similar to Ghost.

I didn't put the EVs on because i still don't know if it will be 252 on everything or just 510 total. Both sets are vulnerable to priority, but i believe priority will be less dominant this meta. Another thing is that if Imposter-Proof users of Dazzling/Psychic Surge/Queenly Majesty becomes popular then Imposters may just start to run Memory/Plate item to copy their Judgment/Multi-Attack and beat the original pokemon, in this case Flame/Toxic Orb seems less plausible to be run by Imposters.

 

[ChrystalFalchion]

A set for STABmons

Meloetta @ Normal Z Chrystal
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature / Timid Nature
- Celebrate
- Stored Power
- Boomburst
- Focus Blast

With a Z Chrystal, Celebrate boosts all stats by 1 stage. That gives you a 160 power STAB in Stored Power. Boomburst is the alternate STAB. Focus Blast hits the Steel types that resist the STABs.

 

[sin(pi)]

we just found out that triage gives +3 priority and also boosts draining moves, so um

Rayquaza-Mega @ Life Orb
Ability: Triage
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Oblivion Wing
- Shell Smash
- Substitute / Taunt maybe
- Earth Power / Magma Storm / Moongeist Beam

i figured that the gale wings nerf killed tail glow+oblivion wing ray, but what a foolish mistake that was -- its back with a vengeance. +3 priority means that owing outspeeds extreme speed and ties with fake out, meaning that after a shell smash oblivion wing beats every priority move in the meta. anyone whos played against gale wings ray can attest to how brutally difficult it is to deal with once it gets a boost -- now imagine if you cant even revenge kill it with priority. it seems to me that dazzling/psychic terrain is probably one of the only reliable ways to deal with this thing, this will no doubt be a monstrous threat in the sm meta

1) holy shit that's gross
2) another option on sets like this will be [insert terrain of choice] to counter psychic terrain. Obviously still loses to dazzling, but you can't have everything, and terrains may be more popular especially on more offensive squads

 

[Chopin Alkaninoff]

K. Let's talk about Terrain Abilities, because I think they're probably the most interesting Ability additions gen 7 brings.

I think in a lot of metas, either BH, AAA, MnM or Ability Unity, Psychic Surge is probably overall the most interesting Ability, especially in a meta that was infested with Priority (basically BH, AAA and MnM falls into this category). It's pretty much a game changer, giving Psychic moves a Specs boost and basically blocks priorities like -atespeeds, targetting Prankster moves (haha screw you Prankster Will-o), Triage and Gale Wings (though I doubt people use this anymore).

Also because it's a Terrain setting Ability, it made something like this in AAA possible.

Gardevoir @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Psyshock
- Hyper Voice
- Taunt / Shadow Ball (for Doublade, as you 2HKO Chansey anyway)
- Focus Blast

You understand right? Actually, who needs Taunt when you can do this.

+1 252 SpA Mega Gardevoir Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 310-366 (48.2 - 57%) -- 91% chance to 2HKO

Another interesting Ability in AAA is actually Misty Surge. Why?
1. It prevents status, both you and your opponent. So your opponent can try to switch their PH mon and you say "HAHAHA YOUR PH DIDN'T ACTIVATE". Also it prevents you from getting burned by Scalds from annoyance like Suicune or Random Toxics and Will-o-wisp. I think this is pretty big.
2. Halving Dragon damage. Probably not that important but if you find Latios or Zygarde being a nuisance, well... use this.

The other two terrain Abilities are not as interesting because aside of boosting their respective types, their side effects are not really interesting. For Grassy Surge, considering it gives you 1/16 HP, Grass types with Leftovers can take advantage of this as Grassy Terrain + Leftovers give you 12.5% HP each turn, which is same as PH. It can be good, but I haven't seen it's potential to be amazing. Maybe giving Specs boost to Grass moves will help it.

And Electric Surge is just... an inferior Misty Terrain. Aside of giving Specs boost to Electric moves... it's not really worth using. Least interesting of the Terrain Abilties IMO, since I don't have much to say about it.

Looking forward to use Psychic Surge and Misty Surge in OMs, especially AAA.

 

[Snafutari]

Before I saw this post, I was scared for the future of Pokemon (admit it, this gen was the opposite of balanced). Now, I'm still nervous, but I'm thinking about getting one of the games. I just hope they didn't botch it up again.

(Note: all of this will be discussing my thoughts on AAA or BH.)

Beast Boost now pretty much replaced moxie. The fact that it could boost the special attack of, say, Porygon-Z is pretty cool.

Merciless will probably be one of my favorite abilities. TS teams are already very fun imo. Now, if you remove steel types, Venoshock+Merciless is gonna sting a lot.

Slush Rush is going to be kickass in AAA. Quick Blizzards everywhere on Hail.

Dazzling and Queenly Majesty are interesting, as they will serve the same purpose, yet fit in on different teams. Dazzling will fit in on more aggressive teams (to force a potential switch after a wasted turn) while Queenly Majesty would be better on defensive teams (less pp to stall through).

 

[Anna says hi]

Except it's been confirmed that Dazzling and Queenly Majesty do the exact same thing.

e: Welcome back NOC

 

[Hourai]

Mega Evolution now activates before turn order

This is going to be a game changer in Mix and Mega, slowish stuff with Diancite will no longer be forced to run Protect. Thundurus also won't be able to abuse Prankster before Mega Evolution with a priority Nasty Plot.

 

[Lcass4919]

not to metion soul heart outclasses special beast-boost by a landslide since you dont need to be the one knocking it out to get the boosts.

 

[DurzaOffTopic]

Mega Evolution now activates before turn order

This is going to be a game changer in Mix and Mega, slowish stuff with Diancite will no longer be forced to run Protect. Thundurus also won't be able to abuse Prankster before Mega Evolution with a priority Nasty Plot.

Wow, so many protect movesets are now GAMECHANGED. This is HUGE.

I'm not sure how I feel about it. Sab-ite and Amph-ite lose speed, so don't know how that's gonna affect the meta if at all.

 

[motherlove]

Hey guys there's a calc for gen 7 if you wanna use it: https://twitter.com/squirrelboyVGC/status/797681218091413504
EDIT: Calc works fine but it does apply the damage nerf to spread moves and it's on doubles by default.

And Electric Surge is just... an inferior Misty Terrain. Aside of giving Specs boost to Electric moves... it's not really worth using. Least interesting of the Terrain Abilties IMO, since I don't have much to say about it.

You seem to forget that electric terrain is the only one that comes with an ability that can double speed in it, Surge Surfer. So electric terrain sweepers can actually be a thing.
So stuff like Specs magnezone can outspeed the entire meta while gaining another specs boost.

Anyway, thought os something that might be interesting in AAA:

Bug / Fighting | 107 / 139 / 139 / 53 / 53 / 79
Buzzwole @ Life Orb
Ability: Triage
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Def
Adamant Nature
- Leech Life
- Hammer Arm
- Stone Edge
- Roost / Bulk Up

Grass / Fairy | 70 / 130 / 115 / 85 / 95 / 75
Tapu Bulu @ Life Orb
Ability: Triage
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Def
Adamant Nature
- Horn Leech
- Superpower
- Stone Edge
- Swords Dance

So the idea was to find possibly the most viable physical users of triage in aaa and both of them happen to be gen7 mons (that I already really like) which is pretty neat.

Buzzwole does have that higher attack stat and much greater physical bulk which makes him immediately appealing, what's more he is part fighting and fighting / Bug is actually a pretty good offensive typing (shoutouts Heracross) which means he can take on steel types. Unfortunately he doesn't have access to Close Combat and Hammer arm does mean that you become slower than Skarmory and so susceptible to Brave Bird, but it also means Skarm can't really risk to roost on you so yeah, 50/50s and shit. Bulk Up does allow you to beat Skarmory in theory (because Buzzwole is just that bulky) so it can be run instead of roost or w/e other move you might wanna try. Stone Edge to Hit Zapdos n shit.

Tapu Bele has a weaker typing in Grass / Fairy (which just screams cokblocked by Skarm) and overall weaker stats, but it still has a very respectable base 130 atk and more importantly, access to Swords Dance, which can quickly make him really threatening. +2 Stone Edge does 2HKO Skarm and skar only does like 60 on brave bird so you can beat it in theory.

Another thing, a fairly obvious one but worth mentionning:

Water / Fairy | 70 / 75 / 115 / 95 / 130 / 85
Tapu Fini @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Taunt / Ice Beam / Moonblast
- Calm Mind / Defog
- Protect

Hey You know Cancezu? The mon that has that typing that seems to resist everything relevant? Well here you have a mix of Cancerzu and Crocune... with Taunt... because Game Freak hates you.
Taunt lets you set up in front of random Roar mons and stops other mons from setting up alongside you.
You can also choose a more support role with Defog... because it learns Defog... because Game Freak hates you.

 

[DurzaOffTopic]

Thinking of some Mix and Mega sets for Tapu Lele for who I plan on building my team around:

70/85/75/130/115/95
Tapu Lele @ Lucarionite
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 Spe
Modest Nature
- Psychic
- Moonblast
- Psyshock
- Psychic Terrain / Nature's Madness

I feel like the Psychic Terrain will change the meta completely: Those annoying ate-speeds will be rendered helpless with this, allowing sweepers to do their huge damage.

And that Lucarionite STAB adaptability on Psychic Terrain boosting psychic moves is gonna hit pretty hard too.

EDIT: and to make my point even clearer:
252+ SpA Adaptability Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Primal Groudon in Psychic Terrain: 210-248 (101.4 - 119.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Including SpA boost from Lucarionite^

252+ SpA Adaptability Tapu Lele Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey in Psychic Terrain: 184-218 (50.8 - 60.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
^Including Def boost from Sableye-nite

 

[The Immortal]

I'm not updating the OP anymore because there's just too much stuff to add...

Check out http://www.smogon.com/forums/forums/sun-and-moon.374/ for mechanics and general Pokemon info.

 

[InvisibleWater]

Just made some Mix and Mega sets for the Ultra Beasts.

Nihilego

Nihilego @ Pidgeotite
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Sludge Bomb
- Dazzling Gleam
- Hidden Power Fire
- Thunder

Pheromosa

Pheromosa @ Lopunnite
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- U-Turn
- High Jump Kick
- Ice Beam
- Poison Jab

Pheromosa @ Pidgeotite
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Bug Buzz
- Focus Blast
- Blizzard
- Hidden Power Fire / U-Turn

Buzzwole

Buzzwole @ Metagrossite / Aerodactylite
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Leech Life
- Superpower / Hammer Arm
- Ice Punch / Thunder Punch
- Earthquake

Xurkitree

Xurkitree @ Latiasite
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Tail Glow
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power Ice
- Energy Ball

Xurkitree @ Pidgeotite
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Tail Glow
- Thunder
- Hidden Power Ice
- Hypnosis / Energy Ball

Kartana

Kartana @ Metagrossite / Aerodactylite
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance / Synthesis
- Smart Strike
- Leaf Blade
- Sacred Sword / Synthesis

Kartana @ Blue Orb
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Swords Dance
- Smart Strike
- Leaf Blade
- Sacred Sword

Celesteela

Celesteela @ Salamencite
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 8 Def / 248 SpD
Careful Nature
- Heavy Slam / Iron Head
- Return
- Leech Seed
- Taunt

Celesteela @ Banettite
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 8 Def / 248 SpD
Careful Nature
- Heavy Slam / Iron Head
- Earthquake
- Leech Seed
- Taunt

Celesteela @ Diancite
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Flash Cannon
- Air Slash
- Giga Drain
- Fire Blast

Guzzlord

Guzzlord @ Cameruptite
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 128 Def / 252 SpA / 128 SpD
Quiet / Modest Nature
- Dark Pulse
- Dragon Claw / Dragon Tail / Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Sludge Bomb

Guzzlord @ Aggronite
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 128 Def / 128 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Heavy Slam
- Crunch
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

 

[Lcass4919]

some of these new toys (and old ones too!) really shake up AAA for the better...stuff like stakeout, the terrain abilities, galvanize, and so many others all sound too good to pass up. also we ALMOST just got fakespeed galvanize pikachu...come on gamefreak, give us fake out+espeed togeather :(

 

[Swaggy-G]

Water Bubble was just confirmed to double the power of all water moves, in addition to the burn immunity and fire resistance. Safe to say it will be banned from BH and AAA?

 

[ih8ih8sn0w]

Water Bubble was just confirmed to double the power of all water moves, in addition to the burn immunity and fire resistance. Safe to say it will be banned from BH and AAA?

I don't see it being banned from BH, there are better abilities to be run on Kyogre (such as Poison Heal, and even Blue Orb), and there are much larger threats (such as Triage M-Ray). It offers a power boost for one type which is stopped by Red Orb Groudon, and its other perks are worse than Flash Fire.

 

[Chopin Alkaninoff]

Hey guys there's a calc for gen 7 if you wanna use it: https://twitter.com/squirrelboyVGC/status/797681218091413504


You seem to forget that electric terrain is the only one that comes with an ability that can double speed in it, Surge Surfer. So electric terrain sweepers can actually be a thing.
So stuff like Specs magnezone can outspeed the entire meta while gaining another specs boost.

Oh yeah, I forgot about that. Electric Surge seems really good now with Surge Surfer AND Galvanize being exist. I can see teams now running Electric Terrain teams + Terrain extender + Galvanize -atespeeders.

Btw, Electric Terrain support + Galvanize -atespeed now gives 156 BP, which is as strong as STAB -atespeed. I think this is pretty big, considering even without STAB, -atespeeds already annoys AAA players (probably just me). Now you got ANOTHER -atespeed that's not resisted by Steel types and be able to be as strong as STAB -atespeed. Prepare your Dazzling mons, guys.

Good thing there is no Elec type with Extremespeed aside of Pikachu.

 

[DurzaOffTopic]

Oh yeah, I forgot about that. Electric Surge seems really good now with Surge Surfer AND Galvanize being exist. I can see teams now running Electric Terrain teams + Terrain extender + Galvanize -atespeeders.

Btw, Electric Terrain support + Galvanize -atespeed now gives 156 BP, which is as strong as STAB -atespeed. I think this is pretty big, considering even without STAB, -atespeeds already annoys AAA players (probably just me). Now you got ANOTHER -atespeed that's not resisted by Steel types and be able to be as strong as STAB -atespeed. Prepare your Dazzling mons, guys.

Good thing there is no Elec type with Extremespeed aside of Pikachu.

What about Light Ball Galvanize Extremespeed Pikachu on Electric Terrain? Frail but I feel like that still does a WHOLE lot of damage.

 

[Jaguar360]

Oh yeah, I forgot about that. Electric Surge seems really good now with Surge Surfer AND Galvanize being exist. I can see teams now running Electric Terrain teams + Terrain extender + Galvanize -atespeeders.

Btw, Electric Terrain support + Galvanize -atespeed now gives 156 BP, which is as strong as STAB -atespeed. I think this is pretty big, considering even without STAB, -atespeeds already annoys AAA players (probably just me). Now you got ANOTHER -atespeed that's not resisted by Steel types and be able to be as strong as STAB -atespeed. Prepare your Dazzling mons, guys.

Good thing there is no Elec type with Extremespeed aside of Pikachu.

There's Rash Shiny Raikou as well, but its physical movepool is pretty sparse.

 

[Funbot28]

K so -ate has been nerfed from giving a 1.3x boost to now only a 1.2x boost. Also Normalize and Galvanize give a 1.2x boost as well. I still feel -ates will still dominate BH but I guess won't be as bad.

 

[ih8ih8sn0w]

I don't see it being banned from BH, there are better abilities to be run on Kyogre (such as Poison Heal, and even Blue Orb), and there are much larger threats (such as Triage M-Ray). It offers a power boost for one type which is stopped by Red Orb Groudon, and its other perks are worse than Flash Fire.

Okay, I'm bad. It boosts both Physical and Special Water moves.

 

[Uselesscrab]

So yeah, Water Bubble is going to be pretty ridiculous in BH. We have been discussing it recently in the OM room. MacChaeger pointed out that Water Shuriken is now Special and could be an intriguing option on Water Bubble sets, especially with the impending unban of Primal Kyogre. The ability, thanks to its many benefits, could even see use on a non-Water-type Pokemon. I'm not sure by how much the damage of Fire-type attacks is reduced, but the burn immunity and Water STAB+ are very much appreciated. Solgaleo, for instance, might enjoy the ability. Another option is to use it to lure in non-Desolate Land Primal Groudon on a Pokemon that tends to lose to it, like Mega Diancie or something, idk.

On another note, I have enclosed a truly dangerous set in the hide tag below. Proceed with caution...

WARNING

Regigigas @ Life Orb
Ability: Normalize
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- SOAK
- Extreme Speed
- V-create
- Swords Dance / Fake Out / Sunsteel Strike / Facade / Explosion / idk

 

[ih8ih8sn0w]

Regurgitating relevant information here for discussion.

"[20:36:07] % MacChaeger : ih8ih8sn0w, do the terrain setting abilities activate before primal reversion?"

It acts like Download + Primal Reversion.

Spectral thief steals the boosts, applies them to itself, the attacks. It does stack with previous boosts.

Assist DV fails, Assist can still call for Thousand Arrows (for BH reasons).

Prankster assist is blocked by Queenly/Dazzling

Priority from an ally targeted towards the Queenly/Dazzling user are not blocked.

Silvally is always normal type even after a forme change (just like Arceus).

 

[Swaggy-G]

Regigigas @ Life Orb
Ability: Normalize
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- SOAK
- Extreme Speed
- V-create
- Swords Dance / Fake Out / Sunsteel Strike / Facade / Explosion / idk

What's the point of having Soak in there? Is there some sort of Normalize shenanigan I'm not getting?