Gen III Battle Frontier Discussion and Records

You're basically denying Kanto players from using Cloyster and Magneton, two very mediocre Pokemon on Frontier play, from being used on this challenge because they are very good in PvP. As a matter of fact we already had this discussion already and many people (who are not even active anymore in here) left their opinions and I ranked the Pokemon according to the input I had from the community. Considering that there was no additional discussion regarding the tierlist I made, I don't think we'll end up with a lot of discussion even if people wanted to revise and update the tierlist. We can probably just use the tierlist that I created in case you actually wanted to implement a banlist? It's much more accurate as to how these Pokemon perform in Frontier play and while it may not be perfect, it's based on what we do here.

We're limiting Pokemon by regions, right? I don't think there should be any concerns on balancing because you can't partner Latios with Suicune or Blissey with Salamence. There's already a limit that will force players to think on alternatives and see how they can achieve results but without using the typical combinations that are present on leaderboard teams. Just check the leaderboard and see how many teams present with Vaporeon and Milotic achieved in comparison to the teams that used Suicune.



I don't think this would be the case. As a matter of fact, making streaks with NFEs can be harder since they will require multiple attempts. I'm not saying this because I have something against using "UU or NU Pokemon" but mostly because I don't want to be forced to breed new Pokemon every week that I'm really not going to use for later. Personally, I'm against genning and that's a philosophy of mine that I'm not going to change regardless. So basically I would spend a lot of time to RNG, breed and EV train Pokemon only for a single occasion and I'm sure there's plenty of people in here who don't want to hack either (hence why I created the Bank of Hoenn server).

Additionally to this, we're setting a time limit right? Therefore I don't think there will be any "endless" streaks even if they are still active. If players were to present how far their team made it, we would only take the streak number achieved during that timeframe. Additionally, there might be people who might have college or a job in between, so people who actually drafted an +S tier Pokemon in their team are not necessarily guaranteed to make big numbers depending on how much free time they can spare for this competition.
I think your tierlist will be fine as well, totally forgot about that one :) But I do think that we need some kind of banlist: As an example in Gen 3, my point wasn't that teams including Latios would be too strong by themselves (because as you pointed out they might have to rely on weaker team-partners than in an unrestricted ruleset), but rather too strong in comparison to the other teams than can't use Latios, because there's simply nothing comparable in performance over all 6 Facilities to it. Same holds for Blissey and Suicune in Gen 2 , Chansey in Gen 1 and to a lesser extent also most of the stuff in the S rank of your list (of course provided we even go with a draft system that grants exclusive rights to certain Pokemon; but if we don't then probably everyone in Gen 3 will use Latios which might be balanced but leads to rather boring teams in my opinion). So my proposal would be to ban the S+ rank, S rank and Chansey, but I'm also fine with only S+ banned if people think that is more fun.

I already got a funny challenge idea regardless of the rules by the way: Record a 7 trainer (post 49) streak in the Battle Tower. Easy right?

But the player who does it with the least STAT TOTAL (not Basestat total) wins. I think this will deliver some amazing replay videos.

No rng abuse ofc to force endless Brightpowder misses or anything.
That sounds like a really fun challenge as well, the first ideas that come to my mind are things like the Endeavour low level Smeargle you talked about in your Monotype Normal post or even something like the suicide Gastly I used in the NU Arena challenge. Shedinja might work as well, but it sounds very tough to build a functioning team around it given the restrictions. Really curious to see what you come up with, maybe I'll try to build something for this challenge as well.
After taking a quick look at the leaderboard, so far either my Grumpig/Smeargle/Aerodactyl or Breloom/Persian/Gengar team seem to take the title for lowest stat team with a serious streak, but I'm sure you can do much better than that :)
 
I think your tierlist will be fine as well, totally forgot about that one :) But I do think that we need some kind of banlist: As an example in Gen 3, my point wasn't that teams including Latios would be too strong by themselves (because as you pointed out they might have to rely on weaker team-partners than in an unrestricted ruleset), but rather too strong in comparison to the other teams than can't use Latios, because there's simply nothing comparable in performance over all 6 Facilities to it. Same holds for Blissey and Suicune in Gen 2 , Chansey in Gen 1 and to a lesser extent also most of the stuff in the S rank of your list (of course provided we even go with a draft system that grants exclusive rights to certain Pokemon; but if we don't then probably everyone in Gen 3 will use Latios which might be balanced but leads to rather boring teams in my opinion). So my proposal would be to ban the S+ rank, S rank and Chansey, but I'm also fine with only S+ banned if people think that is more fun.
I would only disagree on the Chansey ban because it's a worse version of Blissey and not as over-centralizing as it can be. Blissey gains an extra +30 BST on Special Defense and it does quite a difference:

  • 255+ SpA Houndoom Overheat vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Chansey in Sun on a critical hit: 336-396 (94.1 - 110.9%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO

  • 0+ SpA Starmie Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Chansey in Rain on a critical hit: 214-252 (59.9 - 70.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
  • 0+ SpA Starmie Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Chansey in Rain: 107-126 (29.9 - 35.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery (Basically if Chansey eats a critical hit Hydro Pump on rain, it has a good chance of getting 2HKO'd)

  • 255+ SpA Alakazam Psychic vs. -1 252 HP / 0 SpD Chansey: 125-148 (35 - 41.4%) -- 76.4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (assuming you get an SpD drop, there's actually a good chance that you can lose if you get hit by a crit or another SpD drop).

  • 255+ Atk Choice Band Granbull Mega Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chansey: 309-364 (86.5 - 101.9%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO (Blissey actually survives this and it can Softboiled hoping for a miss).

Chansey has a chance to lose to special attackers if crits happen and the extra Special Defense, Speed and Special Attack that Blissey gains adds a lot more versatility on Blissey's game. I can understand the concern considering that Chansey is the closest thing to what Blissey can do, but I'd argue that it's one dimensional and more vulnerable. With the options on Kanto being unable to either use a strong Flying STAB similar to what Salamence can do or Psychic types with crappy physical Defense being unable to switch into CH Cross Chops, I'd say Chansey deserves a chance.
 
Been hard at work in the Pike with a slightly different team from my last attempt and I've cracked 600 rooms! It took me 3 tries but I'm happy to have gotten there. The streak is still active so that's all I'll say until I break it.

Having got that far I decided to take a break and opted to do a fun run on the only format that I've never tried before: Battle Palace Doubles.
Only one other person had tried this, so I figured why not get my name up on the leaderboard. What made me really curious about this particular challenge was the Bulbapedia article for the Palace, which pointed out an interesting quirk I had not been aware of: the Pokemon's nature actually determines which foe it targets based on their remaining HP. This combined with the garbage AI in earlier rounds actually results in all sorts of amusing instances from opponents, such as Ghost-type moves being used against Normal-types.

So, intending to have some fun, I quickly threw together a somewhat slapdash team:

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Granbull @ Choice Band
Body Slam
Earthquake
Brick Break
Rock Slide
252 HP/Attack, 6 Defence (Hardy)

Why Granbull? There's no particular reason, other than Intimidate and the fact it pairs reasonably well with Latios. I opted for Body Slam to give it a little more longevity; even with Intimidate factored in, its bulk is pretty unimpressive even with maxed HP. As with my Singles run in the Palace earlier on, Choice Band can rig the odds in your favour if you get locked into the right move.

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Latios @ Lum Berry
Psychic
Thunderbolt
Ice Beam
Dragon Claw
252 Sp.Atk/Speed, 6 HP (Hasty)

The glue of the team. There isn't much to say about it that hasn't been said before and better. As you'll know if you've played it, Hasty is a great nature in the Palace.

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Tauros @ Chesto Berry
Body Slam
Hidden Power (Ghost)
Rest
Toxic
252 HP/Sp.Def, 6 Defence (Impish)

I had initially planned to just use your bog-standard attacker Tauros. However, N1c69's idea from a while back about a defensive Tauros got me curious about how well it could fare as a bulky backup mon. Surprisingly, it's not all that terrible - though I do think it's worth testing in a different facility. HP Ghost was in an effort to prevent it from becoming Gengar bait; It's movepool is so barren it doesn't really miss not having other options. Ordinarily I wouldn't have opted for such a mon in the backup slot but the fact that Doubles in the Palace require 3 Pokemon rather than 4 actually works in my favour here as it's much less likely that Tauros will get ganged up on by the time it's out.

(seriously, have I mentioned yet how punitive only being allowed 3 Pokemon in a Double Battle is? Because it totally is!)

I did a single run with this team (playing at level 50 because Battle Palace is difficult enough without having to deal with Dragonite and Tyranitar thank you very much) and made it to a fairly respectable 36 wins before being wrecked by a Milotic + Vaporeon combination which Ice Beamed all three team members to death. This got me thinking about whether there might be a more optimal third member of the team. After briefly considering Regice, I decided to switch Tauros for Kangaskhan, because while they have similar stats Kanga has a much more expansive movepool.

1614788774435.png

Kangaskhan @ Leftovers
Body Slam
Aerial Ace
Shadow Ball
Brick Break
6 HP, 252 Attack/Speed (Hardy)

A defensive spread was an option here but would leave it miserably weak. With minimal investment, Kanga is still reliably bulky. It's still not a top-tier mon by any means, but it's one of my favourites so I gave it a go nonetheless.

This new lineup proved much more optimal than the last, and my second go resulted in me making it all the way to 49 wins. Unfortunately battle #50 finished my run - again by way of Ice Beam thanks to a bulky Porygon2 and Kangaskhan repeatedly being unable to use any moves.

Considering how much I dislike the Palace, this was a pretty enjoyable challenge all told! Was hoping to nudge bobdat off the top spot but I'll happily take second place for now.

Stay tuned for the outcome of my attempt to reclaim the top spot in the Battle Pike...


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No, you don't have to record swap between every round. Just a completed streak on the other game is all that's needed for the other Trainer to appear and stay there. I only had to get to 7 battles in Multi with my alternate Emerald game for that game's Trainer (Orienne) to appear in my Battle Salon (I deliberately didn't do a streak in Singles because that requires three Pokemon instead of two).

There does seem to be a cap on specific opponents and partners as I've had apprentices vanish and be replaced by others. I've only got two apprentices currently in the tower, one at battle #5 and one at battle #13. Similarly, I've mixed records a few times and had partners disappear and be replaced by the newer ones. I don't believe I have any record-mixed opponents in Singles on my current file.

The apprentice partners are never particularly good due to having awful EV spreads and random natures. Bulbapedia has a list of potential Pokemon picks for each one but you're not guaranteed specific moves or items since sometimes they won't ask you for those. The two I have are Beauty Kali with Ninetales, Lanturn, and Mawile and Bug Catcher Alann with Pinsir, Shedinja, and Dustox (I won't get any more since my internal battery is dead). They're workable in earlier rounds but by around the fifth round the other AI trainers will be far better picks.
I have a question about this if you don't mind me asking. Does the streak has to be active or ended?
 
I have a question about this if you don't mind me asking. Does the streak has to be active or ended?
Not at all. From memory I think the streak can still be active for them to appear as a multi partner. I don't think they'll appear as an opponent in singles if the streak is active (as that requires a number for them to appear at) but I might be wrong.
 
Alright, after considering all the feedback, here is the definitve ruleset for the

Generation Gap Challenge
  • If you want to sign-up, send me a DM confirming your participation until Sunday, 7th March 8 PM GMT where you also include which of the three generations you'd prefer to play; you can specify your first, second and last priority.
  • The challenge will take place if at least 6 people (5 with myself included) participate.
  • I will then try to arrange the participants into three pools for the respective generations such that as many people as possibe can play their prefered generation.
  • After that, we determine #signups/3 team captains (which will probably just be the most experienced players that signed up) which then get to pick the remaining players of their team in a draft system. As an example, if we have 9 participants (and therefore 3 teams) the draft would look like this (the order of the team captains will be randomly determined beforehand):
    1. team captain #1 picks his first teammate
    2. team captain #2 picks his first teammate
    3. team captain #3 picks his first and second teammate at the same time
    4. team captain #2 picks his second teammate
    5. team captain #1 picks his second teammate
  • Each team must consist of a first generation, a second generation and a third generation player.
  • If the number of participants turns out to not be divisible by three, one or two teams will have four players in total, two of which will play the same generation.
  • In every generation, each participant of the respective generation gets to pick 2 Pokemon that can be used exclusively by him. This will again happen with a draft system analogous to the one above, but now the order of the teams is going to be reversed.
  • Pokemon that are banned from use in this challenge include everything in the S+ and S rank of this tierlist.
  • As soon as the teams and exclusive Pokemon rights are determined, we will start with the challenge.
  • We will go through all facilities excluding Factory in alphabetical order. For each facility there is a timeframe of three weeks, where the players try to achieve the highest streak number they possibly can. Proof can be provided either by video or a detailed write-up with a screenshot of the streak number.
  • The scores of a team for a facility will be the sum of the two best streaks achieved by two different players of their team. Example: In Arena, Player 1 of Team 1 gets a highest streak of 50, Player 2 of Team 1 gets 38 and Player 3 gets 45. The score of Team 1 for Arena will be 50+45=95. The team with the highest score then gets 10 points, and the other teams get a fraction of that proportional to how close their score is to the highest score.
  • Rewards for the winning team will be provided by our friendly sponsor, the Bank of Hoenn.
If there are any further questions or concerns, feel free to ask!

EDIT: Timeframe per facility changed from two to three weeks.
 
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I had initially planned to just use your bog-standard attacker Tauros. However, N1c69's idea from a while back about a defensive Tauros got me curious about how well it could fare as a bulky backup mon. Surprisingly, it's not all that terrible - though I do think it's worth testing in a different facility.
Happy to see the idea of bulky Tauros being tested.

(seriously, have I mentioned yet how punitive only being allowed 3 Pokemon in a Double Battle is? Because it totally is!)
I actually love having just 3 pokemon in palace doubles, and have found some ways to abuse it. My previous palace doubles streak was 37 using:
Mix offensive Gyarados, CB Golem, bulky Kingdra, all with sassy natures. The idea was a sassy nature means they are likely attack on turn one, and so far I have rarely seen Golem choose any move other than EQ, since the rules that determine which move Golem chooses, must calculate that EQ will in most cases do the most damage to both of the opponents mons. Also, CB EQ had a good chance to hit the last of the opponents mons on the switch, making easy wins.
Also, you get 5 BP from streak one in palace doubles, so imo it's one of the fasterest to grind BP in.
 
Happy to see the idea of bulky Tauros being tested.



I actually love having just 3 pokemon in palace doubles, and have found some ways to abuse it. My previous palace doubles streak was 37 using:
Mix offensive Gyarados, CB Golem, bulky Kingdra, all with sassy natures. The idea was a sassy nature means they are likely attack on turn one, and so far I have rarely seen Golem choose any move other than EQ, since the rules that determine which move Golem chooses, must calculate that EQ will in most cases do the most damage to both of the opponents mons. Also, CB EQ had a good chance to hit the last of the opponents mons on the switch, making easy wins.
Also, you get 5 BP from streak one in palace doubles, so imo it's one of the fasterest to grind BP in.
On my emerald cartridge the BP bet guy is for battle tower singles, unmatched BP grinding lol
 
I was pleasantly surprised to see that I had a streak of 56 wins currently active in Factory Singles Open Level (no idea when I did that) so decided to pick that up before returning to the Pike. I managed a complete round before breaking my streak - but as 64 wins puts me at second place on the Factory leaderboard (and, hilariously, just one win ahead of my ancient record on level 50), I'm happy with it!

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A quick write-up is as follows.

Round 9
Opening draft:
Slaking3
Armaldo3
Slaking4
Weezing4
Glalie2
Blissey2


I went with Slaking3, Armaldo3, and Blissey2. Traded Armaldo for Moltres6 after battle 1. Trainer #4 was skilled in the Fighting type, so traded Slaking for Gengar4. Then, after battle 6, traded Gengar for Alakazam4. Blissey absolutely pulled her weight in this round; most battles were pretty much solely her doing.

Fought Noland again at Battle 63. He led off with Medicham, which I hoped wasn't the EndRevver set. It was. It proceeded to Fake Out Alakazam. Hoping that Psychic would fall short of a KO and bait it into Endure-ing again, I attacked and brought it to ~10%. Medicham then proceeded to repeatedly Endure while I switched back and forth between Alakazam and Moltres. From there, Moltres was able to survive a weakened Reversal and finish it off.

Electrode came out next - Blissey took care of it from behind a Substitute as I was worried about Explosion, but I've no idea which set it was because all it ever used was Thunderbolt. Then came Scizor, which Moltres swiftly took down with Overheat.

Battles #56-63 being so deceptively easy made losing in the next round all the harder...

Round 10
Opening draft:
Arcanine3
Dusclops3
Wailord2
Mr. Mime3
Tentacruel3
Aerodactyl4


I went with Arcanine3, Mr Mime3, and Aerodactyl4 as my squad. Unfortunately, while the first trainer was a piece of cake, the second led with Regirock, which wiped out all three team members with Rock Slide as they failed to bring it down. Damn it.
 
My streak on the Battle Pike officially ended on the 777 cleared rooms benchmark in retail. The lost came on this round as I previously entered two Nostalgia rooms however, the first and 2nd one left me with all my Pokemon paralyzed. The next option was an Aroma of Pokemon room and I chose it thinking that if I can get to a Wild room, there would be no problem since I can heal my whole party. It was a trainer battle against Expert Miranda (Sets 1-4 including Legends 1-6).

:espeon: :alakazam: :regirock:

She lead with Espeon and with Blissey paralyzed it was a trick match-up since Blissey can get overwhelmed by boosted Psychics and the threat of a paralysis could be too dangerous to play with even if I did swap into. I made the decision of staying and hoping I can grab a CM since I know that the Lum Berry will activate at the end of the turn. Unfortunately Espeon gets a flinch with Bite leaving me at 81 HP, barely at 50%.


255+ SpA Espeon Bite vs. 28 HP / 6 SpD Latios: 71-84 (44.6 - 52.8%) -- 24.6% chance to 2HKO
Possible damage amounts: (71, 72, 73, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 78, 79, 80, 81, 82, 83, 84)

Lum activates, however I am on a more difficult position because I lost a turn and even if I CM, the Espeon will 2HKO Latios anyways. If it has CM, I would need to heal anyways because I can't otherwise use a paralyzed Heracross. I decide to go for Ice Beam and Espeon Bites again leaving Latios exactly at 1 HP. I went for a Thunderbolt this time and Espeon still on red survives and KOs Latios with Bite.

Blissey comes next and Aromatherapys on the turn Espeon surprisingly reveals Wish which means that it never had CM. Next turn, Blissey tanks a Psychic and Blissey finishes it off with Seismic Toss. Next mon is Alakazam. Normally I wouldn't be worried since 3/4 of the sets are easily beaten by her. However, I started to panic when Alakazam revealed Trick instead meaning that my Blissey was crippled just like in a Gen 4 OU battle and locked into Toxic. This was extremely bad because I'm locked into a status move and this Pokemon only knows Psychic which means that I can't switch Heracross into this Pokemon. After missing a couple of Disables, Alakazam decides to go for Psychic and Blissey eventually falls to them since Alakazam managed to get two Sp.Def drops on her.

Last mon is Heracross who comes after Blissey and revenge kills Alakazam with HP Bug (God bless Jolly). Last mon was Regirock which left a big OOF.


  • 248 Atk Choice Band Heracross Hidden Power Bug vs. 255 HP / 0 Def Regirock: 48-57 (25.6 - 30.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
  • 0+ Atk Regirock Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Heracross: 44-52 (28.3 - 33.5%) -- 0.1% chance to 3HKO

Odds don't look bad, do they? I can still win this despite my mistake of locking Blissey into Toxic and being overconfident that I could still Aromatherapy again and Soft-boiled the damage off. As a matter of fact on the first exchange, Regirock missed a Rock Slide which means that I was still on a good position. However, everything went into shit when Heracross missed the 3rd HP Bug. Subsequently, Heracross misses another HP Bug vs Regirock 6 who finishes Heracross off with Rock Slide.

Despite the streak ending on the "luckiest number" I ended up getting haxxed like if there was no tomorrow on this battle.

The Battle Pike is a really great and fun facility. I think that the theme itself where it is based on luck, means that you don't necessarily need a really strong backbone to be successful on this facility. Blissey definitely is an overpowered cheat code on this facility and Aromatherapy has saved me so many times on battles where Blissey can pull it off. Latios was also fantastic considering that he pretty much one-shots Lucy's whole team whenever I face her.

I really liked using Heracross and what made this team so succesful was the incredibly offensive synergy it has with Latios on Double battles. I actively pursued whispering rooms knowing that it was either a free pass or a Double battle which is the format where this team truly excels. Heracross being capable of dealing a Banded full power Earthquake to both opponents not only allowed it to pick up KOs that Latios narrowly missed but it also destroyed the Pokemon that Latios couldn't handle such as Umbreon and Snorlax. Avoiding the possibility getting into too many Single battles truly allowed this team to shine.

I hold no regrets on the loss despite the outrageous and funny number my streak ended with. I also had a lot of fun playing through the Pike. Unlike Factory or Palace it isn't a frustrating facility to play with and it's easy to pick up. Overall, I do believe that the 777 win streak does show the true quality of this team compared to my previous attempt.

 
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My streak on the Battle Pike officially ended on the 777 cleared rooms benchmark in retail. The lost came on this round as I previously entered two Nostalgia rooms however, the first and 2nd one left me with all my Pokemon paralyzed. The next option was an Aroma of Pokemon room and I chose it thinking that if I can get to a Wild room, there would be no problem since I can heal my whole party. It was a trainer battle against Expert Miranda (Sets 1-4 including Legends 1-6).

:espeon: :alakazam: :regirock:

She lead with Espeon and with Blissey paralyzed it was a trick match-up since Blissey can get overwhelmed by boosted Psychics and the threat of a paralysis could be too dangerous to play with even if I did swap into. I made the decision of staying and hoping I can grab a CM since I know that the Lum Berry will activate at the end of the turn. Unfortunately Espeon gets a flinch with Bite leaving me at 81 HP, barely at 50%.


255+ SpA Espeon Bite vs. 28 HP / 6 SpD Latios: 71-84 (44.6 - 52.8%) -- 24.6% chance to 2HKO
Possible damage amounts: (71, 72, 73, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 78, 79, 80, 81, 82, 83, 84)

Lum activates, however I am on a more difficult position because I lost a turn and even if I CM, the Espeon will 2HKO Latios anyways. If it has CM, I would need to heal anyways because I can't otherwise use a paralyzed Heracross. I decide to go for Ice Beam and Espeon Bites again leaving Latios exactly at 1 HP. I went for a Thunderbolt this time and Espeon still on red survives and KOs Latios with Bite.

Blissey comes next and Aromatherapys on the turn Espeon surprisingly reveals Wish which means that it never had CM. Next turn, Blissey tanks a Psychic and Blissey finishes it off with Seismic Toss. Next mon is Alakazam. Normally I wouldn't be worried since 3/4 of the sets are easily beaten by her. However, I started to panic when Alakazam revealed Trick instead meaning that my Blissey was crippled just like in a Gen 4 OU battle and locked into Toxic. This was extremely bad because I'm locked into a status move and this Pokemon only knows Psychic which means that I can't switch Heracross into this Pokemon. After missing a couple of Disables, Alakazam decides to go for Psychic and Blissey eventually falls to them since Alakazam managed to get two Sp.Def drops on her.

Last mon is Heracross who comes after Blissey and revenge kills Alakazam with HP Bug (God bless Jolly). Last mon was Regirock which left a big OOF.


  • 248 Atk Choice Band Heracross Hidden Power Bug vs. 255 HP / 0 Def Regirock: 48-57 (25.6 - 30.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
  • 0+ Atk Regirock Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Heracross: 44-52 (28.3 - 33.5%) -- 0.1% chance to 3HKO

Odds don't look bad, do they? I can still win this despite my mistake of locking Blissey into Toxic and being overconfident that I could still Aromatherapy again and Soft-boiled the damage off. As a matter of fact on the first exchange, Regirock missed a Rock Slide which means that I was still on a good position. However, everything went into shit when Heracross missed the 3rd HP Bug. Subsequently, Heracross misses another HP Bug vs Regirock 6 who finishes Heracross off with Rock Slide.

Despite the streak ending on the "luckiest number" I ended up getting haxxed like if there was no tomorrow on this battle.

The Battle Pike is a really great and fun facility. I think that the theme itself where it is based on luck, means that you don't necessarily need a really strong backbone to be successful on this facility. Blissey definitely is an overpowered cheat code on this facility and Aromatherapy has saved me so many times on battles where Blissey can pull it off. Latios was also fantastic considering that he pretty much one-shots Lucy's whole team whenever I face her.

I really liked using Heracross and what made this team so succesful was the incredibly offensive synergy it has with Latios on Double battles. I actively pursued whispering rooms knowing that it was either a free pass or a Double battle which is the format where this team truly excels. Heracross being capable of dealing a Banded full power Earthquake to both opponents not only allowed it to pick up KOs that Latios narrowly missed but it also destroyed the Pokemon that Latios couldn't handle such as Umbreon and Snorlax. Avoiding the possibility getting into too many Single battles truly allowed this team to shine.

I hold no regrets on the loss despite the outrageous and funny number my streak ended with. I also had a lot of fun playing through the Pike. Unlike Factory or Palace it isn't a frustrating facility to play with and it's easy to pick up. Overall, I do believe that the 777 win streak does show the true quality of this team compared to my previous attempt.

Amazing streak, well done. I think your loss could have been played better for sure but that doesn't diminish how far you went to get there. Totally agree with you re Pike's quality as a facility; I've been using Heracross too in my current team and it plays excellently in there.
 
Amazing streak, well done. I think your loss could have been played better for sure but that doesn't diminish how far you went to get there. Totally agree with you re Pike's quality as a facility; I've been using Heracross too in my current team and it plays excellently in there.
To be fair, my only mistake was locking myself into Toxic. I should've picked Seismic Toss on Alakazam. Even with this misplay, I still would've won without the two Hidden Power misses, but that's my only regret. Maybe if Alakazam didn't get more than one SpD drop, I would've been able to survive and Blissey gets some chip damage against Regirock where Heracross comes free next turn and picks the appropriate move. But if Alakazam would've gotten another one, I believe Blissey would've gone down before Zam does and I would've been on the same position.
 
To be fair, my only mistake was locking myself into Toxic. I should've picked Seismic Toss on Alakazam. Even with this misplay, I still would've won without the two Hidden Power misses, but that's my only regret. Maybe if Alakazam didn't get more than one SpD drop, I would've been able to survive and Blissey gets some chip damage against Regirock where Heracross comes free next turn and picks the appropriate move. But if Alakazam would've gotten another one, I believe Blissey would've gone down before Zam does and I would've been on the same position.
I wonder if had you switched to Blissey immediately, Toxic'd Espeon, and then stalled it out, would that have been wiser...? Even if it's the CM set, Toxic puts it on a timer (Blissey can take Psychics even with a couple of CMs) and you can speed up its demise with Seismic Toss. Or switch Latios back in on a Psychic to get the Lum heal. Just spitballing; I think once you got Choice-locked it was going to be hard to win regardless. There's a lot of variables, if Blissey had been alive once you dropped Zam you could have switched back and sacrificed it to enable Heracross to pick Break Break.

I'll resume my Pike run tomorrow...
 
Just reached 70 wins in the Tower with THICK GYARADOS. I'm planning on streaming it at some point. This team was inspired by Adedede's Misdreavus+DD Tar and Actaeon's Grumpig trick.

(* insert Grumpig text from Actaeon)
  • Out speeds all Metagross sets and very importantly OHKOers and non-Speed invested DDMence as well;
  • Survives CB Shadow Ball from all Metagross, and there with also Meteor Mash and stuff like Quick Claw Double-Edge from Ursaring.

* 252+ Atk Regirock Rock Slide vs. 212 HP / 204 Def Grumpig: 66-78 (36.2 - 42.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Edit:
Just pulled a trick on Regirock+ skillswap on Lead Regirock. Absolutely beautiful.

Latias is the second member of the trio. It's Kommo-O's Latias, with one small change in speed (mine has a 31 speed iv). Latias performs the crippler role and does a fantastic job.

Ideas for Cripplers: Steelix, Zapdos, Espeon, Jolteon, currently trying out Ninetales.

Gyarados is the sweeper on this team. Regarding Gyarados's set, here's the explanation.
  1. 56 hp to reach 177 hp (16+1 leftovers number)
  2. Maximum attack (needs near max already anyways for damage calcs)
+6 252+ Atk Gyarados Hidden Power Flying vs. 170 HP / 0 Def Aerodactyl: 180-212 (102.2 - 120.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+6 252+ Atk Gyarados Hidden Power Flying vs. 0 HP / 252+ Def Lapras: 211-249 (102.9 - 121.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+6 252+ Atk Gyarados Hidden Power Flying vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Skarmory: 96-113 (55.8 - 65.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+6 252+ Atk Gyarados Hidden Power Flying vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Zapdos: 145-171 (87.8 - 103.6%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

3. 8 speed to out speed the neutral base 100s at +1
4. Dumped the rest in defense (to limit struggle damage and easily set up on a tormented/tricked foe)

This Gyarados is meant to set up to +6. As such, attack and phys def are the most important stats. Speed isn't necessary as t-wave support and DD will allow you to be faster than everything.

Playstyle: trick turn 1, if foe is locked into stat up move (double team, SD, CM) or Earthquake, switch in Gyarados immediately and set up. Otherwise, debuff first with Latias.

Latias Cripple set.
https://pokepast.es/0422ecf469415aef

Threatlist (will be updated as more threats appear)
QC Fissure/ Rhydon on turn 1
Zapdos (all sets have a good chance to live a +6 hit)
Sticky hold pokemon (Swalot and Muk, which also has explosion)
Heracross (switch into Gyarados for intimidate and then Latias on a -1). Hope it doesn't crit as you charm.
Stalling out dragon claw on choice locked Latias/Latios. Potentially dangerous.
Choice locked shadow ball/megahorn users
Choice locked DE users (possible to die quickly to recoil)
Turn 1 miss with trick.

Edit: Definite discussion between Mence and Gyara. Mence has higher speed and attack, which is real nice. However, there are more bright powder/focus band users that screw over a full set up Mence than Gyarados. In particular, you are guaranteed to run into one on the Anabel round (Latios), which Gyarados can easily handle.

Thick Salamence
https://pokepast.es/ffe94d9526f68ed1
Here's the list of losses I've had with the trick team and it's variations.
Lost it with the Latias streak (even tried sub over t-wave) @ 123.
Lost at 99 to Focus Band Blastoise when using Mence.
Lost before 70 because trick missed on Bright powder Mixed Tauros (which packed t-bolt and surf)
Lost to Muk exploding on Gyarados.
Final Loss at 173 to Lead Aero, Mixed Flygon (crits a dragon-claw while setting up) & Double edge Moltres.

From experience, water types that carry ice moves will always use it on Mence. On the other hand, electric types often spam t-wave, even when t-bolt is super effective on Gyarados.

https://pokepast.es/dd178c6413df7b9a
 

Attachments

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I wonder if had you switched to Blissey immediately, Toxic'd Espeon, and then stalled it out, would that have been wiser...? Even if it's the CM set, Toxic puts it on a timer (Blissey can take Psychics even with a couple of CMs) and you can speed up its demise with Seismic Toss. Or switch Latios back in on a Psychic to get the Lum heal. Just spitballing; I think once you got Choice-locked it was going to be hard to win regardless. There's a lot of variables, if Blissey had been alive once you dropped Zam you could have switched back and sacrificed it to enable Heracross to pick Break Break.

I'll resume my Pike run tomorrow...
Unfortunately, I did not knew which Espeon set I was facing. All of them have Bite. Espeon 2 has Rest and Chesto, so it would've been bad if it was that set. It all came down to me not knowing the set until I saw moves that identified them. Miranda can pull any of the sets.
 
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Well I've decided to port my save from retail to emulator for the Battle Frontier. I'm just too impatient. But I'm enjoying playing much more now.

The Battle Tower was giving me trouble before because I restricted myself to teams that didn't require a lot of setup. I won battles faster but the AI could end my streak just as quickly. Looking through some of the teams for new ideas, pokology's team of an encore Walrein / Latios / Donphan caught my eye. I liked their idea for an encore-based Shuckle / Latias / Metagross team and tried it out with genned Pokémon for some unofficial prototyping. I liked where the team ended up and wanted some feedback before I gather the Pokémon for real.

:rs/Shuckle:
Shuckle @ Leftovers (Calm)
Encore / Toxic / Protect / Mud Slap
EVs: 252 HP / 128 Def / 128 SpD
IVs: 0 Atk

I use encore as the first move and go from there. Toxic and protect are for evasion spam and mud slap is there for minor support (also for taunts). They are male so that encore'd attracts give Latias a free setup. Latias and Metagross cover all of Shuckle's weaknesses and Shuckle hangs around to deal with OHKO-users. Overall I like their function but think the EVs need some work.

:rs/Latias:
Latias @ Lum Berry (Modest)
Dragon Claw / Calm Mind / Recover / Substitute
EVs: 36 Def / 252 SpA / 220 Spe
IVs: Perfect (Didn't gen this one - used R/S roamer glitch)

I love this gal. I chose her over Latios She's the switch-in for encore'd confusion/status/resisted moves. I'm never sure whether to use calm mind or substitute first but playing it by ear has worked ok. Recover hasn't seen much use but is appreciated. I'm thinking her EVs could be better specialized.

:rs/Metagross:
Metagross @ Chesto Berry (Adamant)
Hidden Power (Steel) / Psych Up / Rest / Swagger
EVs: 44 HP/ 252 Atk / 212 Spe
IVs: 30 SpD (for hidden power)
{Credit for EVs goes to Werster's all gold symbols guide}

Metagross is the switch-in for encore'd boost/status-reducing/resisted moves. Clear body is just amazing in this team. Unfortunately I didn't like Metagross's performance - psych up was usually disappointing. I used earthquake for one 7-battle streak then swapped it for swagger so I could get some use from special-boosters.

Overall this team... works. Take 2 made some improvements and is what I'd like advice on

:rs/Shuckle:
Shuckle @ Sitrus Berry (Calm)
Encore / Toxic / Protect / Mud Slap
EVs: 252 HP / 128 Def / 128 SpD
IVs: 0 Atk

Leftovers was needed elsewhere and 30hp is nearly a quarter of Shuckle's health anyway. No other changes made.

:rs/Latias:
Latias @ Lum Berry (Modest)
Dragon Claw / Calm Mind / Recover / Substitute
EVs: 36 Def / 252 SpA / 220 Spe
IVs: Perfect (Didn't gen this one - used R/S roamer glitch)

No changes made. Probably needs some.

:rs/Registeel:
Registeel @ Leftovers (Adamant)
Hidden Power (Steel) / Curse / Amnesia / Substitute
EVs: 240 HP/ 188 Atk / 70 Def / 12 SpD
IVs: 11 SpA / 30 SpD (for hidden power)
{Credit to Kommo-o's team for the EVs/IVs}

Registeel replaces Metagross here. I liked the steel typing and liked clear body so here we are. Dropping the psychic typing is nice. You feel the limits of their base 75 attack but the boosts make them a nigh-unkillable monster.

Would love feedback and suggestions. I'm not married to any of the Pokémon but I appreciate the novelty Shuckle brings.
 
Well I've decided to port my save from retail to emulator for the Battle Frontier. I'm just too impatient. But I'm enjoying playing much more now.

The Battle Tower was giving me trouble before because I restricted myself to teams that didn't require a lot of setup. I won battles faster but the AI could end my streak just as quickly. Looking through some of the teams for new ideas, pokology's team of an encore Walrein / Latios / Donphan caught my eye. I liked their idea for an encore-based Shuckle / Latias / Metagross team and tried it out with genned Pokémon for some unofficial prototyping. I liked where the team ended up and wanted some feedback before I gather the Pokémon for real.

:rs/Shuckle:
Shuckle @ Leftovers (Calm)
Encore / Toxic / Protect / Mud Slap
EVs: 252 HP / 128 Def / 128 SpD
IVs: 0 Atk

I use encore as the first move and go from there. Toxic and protect are for evasion spam and mud slap is there for minor support (also for taunts). They are male so that encore'd attracts give Latias a free setup. Latias and Metagross cover all of Shuckle's weaknesses and Shuckle hangs around to deal with OHKO-users. Overall I like their function but think the EVs need some work.

:rs/Latias:
Latias @ Lum Berry (Modest)
Dragon Claw / Calm Mind / Recover / Substitute
EVs: 36 Def / 252 SpA / 220 Spe
IVs: Perfect (Didn't gen this one - used R/S roamer glitch)

I love this gal. I chose her over Latios She's the switch-in for encore'd confusion/status/resisted moves. I'm never sure whether to use calm mind or substitute first but playing it by ear has worked ok. Recover hasn't seen much use but is appreciated. I'm thinking her EVs could be better specialized.

:rs/Metagross:
Metagross @ Chesto Berry (Adamant)
Hidden Power (Steel) / Psych Up / Rest / Swagger
EVs: 44 HP/ 252 Atk / 212 Spe
IVs: 30 SpD (for hidden power)
{Credit for EVs goes to Werster's all gold symbols guide}

Metagross is the switch-in for encore'd boost/status-reducing/resisted moves. Clear body is just amazing in this team. Unfortunately I didn't like Metagross's performance - psych up was usually disappointing. I used earthquake for one 7-battle streak then swapped it for swagger so I could get some use from special-boosters.

Overall this team... works. Take 2 made some improvements and is what I'd like advice on

:rs/Shuckle:
Shuckle @ Sitrus Berry (Calm)
Encore / Toxic / Protect / Mud Slap
EVs: 252 HP / 128 Def / 128 SpD
IVs: 0 Atk

Leftovers was needed elsewhere and 30hp is nearly a quarter of Shuckle's health anyway. No other changes made.

:rs/Latias:
Latias @ Lum Berry (Modest)
Dragon Claw / Calm Mind / Recover / Substitute
EVs: 36 Def / 252 SpA / 220 Spe
IVs: Perfect (Didn't gen this one - used R/S roamer glitch)

No changes made. Probably needs some.

:rs/Registeel:
Registeel @ Leftovers (Adamant)
Hidden Power (Steel) / Curse / Amnesia / Substitute
EVs: 240 HP/ 188 Atk / 70 Def / 12 SpD
IVs: 11 SpA / 30 SpD (for hidden power)
{Credit to Kommo-o's team for the EVs/IVs}

Registeel replaces Metagross here. I liked the steel typing and liked clear body so here we are. Dropping the psychic typing is nice. You feel the limits of their base 75 attack but the boosts make them a nigh-unkillable monster.

Would love feedback and suggestions. I'm not married to any of the Pokémon but I appreciate the novelty Shuckle brings.
Oh boy, I do have some ideas about this one. First of all, I'm really happy someone wants to try and build a "Shuckle-mascotte" team. When building Mono Rock, I tried to fit Shuckle on a number of teams and while Encore/(Mud-Slap/Flash) are pretty much given on any set, I think Toxic and Protect can be replaced in some cases.

I never really liked setting up with only Encore, because sometimes you want to switch out which costs a turn, and other times the Encore wears off too quickly before you accumulated enough boosts to prevent your Substitute from breaking. So I think it's essential to capitalize on just one free turn to start with. Good Surf, Meteor Mash and Rock Slide switchins / follow ups are essential too of course, and Registeel/Latias have magnificent defensive synergy.

One other interesting move Shuckle gets is Sweet Scent. I once tried a Sweet Scent / Mud-Slap / Encore set, and if followed by a (then 97.5%-accurate) Sleep Powder abuser, this thing can wreak some havoc if it doesn't get crit on turn 1. If you get two Sweet Scents off, the Sleep Powder hit is already guaranteed. Sitrus Berry and Lum Berry are interchangeable and both good/needed in different scenarios. An interesting Pokemon to follow up with is Jumpluff, who then outstalls the opponent with SubTect @ Leftovers, Sleep Powder and a move such as Encore, Flash/Double Team or even Leech Seed, so they are forced to use Struggle. The problem with this setup is facing Clear Body Pokemon, Metagross in particular. Quick Claw is a nuisance as well: too bad Shuckle doesn't learn Thief. So ideally, your final sweeper should be able to setup on them. Slower Sleep Powder abusers than Jumpluff are perfectly viable for this too, but they would then need Rock Tomb support as well from Shuckle, and Shuckle is less bulky than we'd wish.

For the Jumpluff strategy to work better, item removal is essential. Shuckle can try using Swagger to get rid of Lum Berries, but then the Chesto Berries are still annoying. Another thing you could try is use Toxic and see if they Rest themselves if it's Chesto Berry.

Another strategy, even better IMO, is to make Jumpluff itself capable of sweeping with Sleep Powder / Substitute / Leech Seed / Double Team, and it has a very good chance to sweep through the opposing team by just stalling, while the probability of this sequence being interrupted is diminished by having +6 Evasion. I can say from experience with the Mono Grass team this is a pretty terrifying sweeper on its own, but of course it needs support to beat Grass-types, and prevent Rest/Recover users from draining too much PP (although it can usually get through ONE Recover user and then a remaning Pokemon if that doesn't have Rest/Recover too). Slowking/Slowbro are scary as well.

On Mono Grass, I solved these problems with Breloom to an extent, but without the Monotype restriction you can do much better, for example with a Thief or Knock Off user to get rid of Quick Claws as well. It has to answer Metagross, be able to switch into Grass-types and as many Quick Claw abusers as possible, and preferably have some defensive synergy with Jumpluff too. I'll leave that up to you, and won't say Skarmory :)

These are just some ideas ofc!
 
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Here's some info on Sitrus Shuckle with the aid of a program I wrote to simulate the probabilities of avoiding a 2HKO through Sitrus, factoring in misses and critical hits as well by having one million simulations. Note that the Showdown or Battle Tree damage calculators don't take all these factors, and Sitrus is implemented incorrectly for gen 3. Here's a set that more or less equalizes defenses with Defense stats that actually contribute something (due to its absurdly high basestats, Shuckle has large gaps in useful stats):

1614975379851.png

Shuckle @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 220 Def / 36 SpD
Calm Nature (+SpD, -SpA)
- Sweet Scent
- Mud-Slap
- Encore / Protect / Toxic / Swagger / Rock Tomb

- Encore / Protect / Toxic / Swagger / Rock Tomb

Move1HKO2HKO3HKO4HKO5HKO6HKO
252+ Starmie Surf0.0620.0600.878---
252+ Rhydon RS0.0530.1300.6000.1760.0340.006
170+ Metagross MM0.0530.6850.2040.0470.0090.002

Of course, the "beyond 6HKO" probabilities are non-zero with less-than-perfect Accuracy, but they correspond to unrealistically long miss streaks. The bulk of the probability lies in 3HKO or more as you see in the case of Starmie and Rhydon. Metagross 2HKOs just by hitting twice; it's simply too overwhelming to overcome with Sitrus Berry. You can play with lowering HP to increase Sitrus Berry's effect (against all general rules of EV-ing there are, but that's what Sitrus Berry makes you do), but in these efforts I haven't found a better spread in general. The only thing it can achieve is increase the odds against a specific move.

Note that while the chances against Rhydon and Metagross are slim, Shuckle should simply switch out of these anyway, which is why I really like Skarmory on a Shuckle team; it's a Sturdy party. Against Starmie, it's really useful to be able to Sweet Scent, then Toxic to eat the Lum Berry. Of course it will switch out when Jumpluff uses Sleep Powder (if it has Natural Cure), but that gives Jumpluff exactly the free turn it needs as well. If it turns out Starmie has no Lum Berry, that means it has no Ice Beam OR no Thunderbolt, in which case either Jumpluff or Skarmory outlasts it.

Let me know if I should add more calcs!

EDIT: I just did some tests with this and it seems to work really well: https://pokepast.es/e232b8302347bee8

Shuckle (M) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 220 Def / 36 SpD
Calm Nature (+SpD, -SpA)
- Sweet Scent
- Mud-Slap
- Encore
- Toxic

Toxic for the reason explained, but also handy when in a pinch. This Shuckle is very helpful when stalling Seeded opponents out of Recover or Rest PP, so Jumpluff can save its PP and re-setup before they faint.

Jumpluff (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 Def / 36 SpD / 220 Spe
Jolly Nature (+Spe, -SpA)
IVs: 20 HP
- Substitute
- Leech Seed
- Double Team
- Sleep Powder

EVs are borrowed from the Mono Grass team.

Skarmory (M) @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 68 Def / 188 SpD
Careful Nature (+SpD, -SpA)
- Thief
- Whirlwind
- Rest
- Aerial Ace

Always survives two non-crit Surfs from Slowbro/King. Also pretty tanky in general, can safely Rest + Whirlwind out Metagross after the switchin, even the Thunderpunch variant. Aerial Ace beats Grass-types except boosting Cradily, whose Leftovers you could steal.

Here's a glorious match where Jumpluff outstalls two Grass-types including LEFTOVERS CRADILY because I guessed wrong about Lapras having Quick Claw. I stole its Lum Berry once it revealed Thunderbolt. I also made a terrifying missclick, allowing Jumpluff to get hit by a Sludge Bomb. All-in-all, a must see.
 
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Here's some info on Sitrus Shuckle with the aid of a program I wrote to simulate the probabilities of avoiding a 2HKO through Sitrus, factoring in misses and critical hits as well by having one million simulations. Note that the Showdown or Battle Tree damage calculators don't take all these factors, and Sitrus is implemented incorrectly for gen 3. Here's a set that more or less equalizes defenses with Defense stats that actually contribute something (due to its absurdly high basestats, Shuckle has large gaps in useful stats):

View attachment 320899
Shuckle @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 220 Def / 36 SpD
Calm Nature (+SpD, -SpA)
- Sweet Scent
- Mud-Slap
- Encore / Protect / Toxic / Swagger / Rock Tomb

- Encore / Protect / Toxic / Swagger / Rock Tomb

Move1HKO2HKO3HKO4HKO5HKO6HKO
252+ Starmie Surf0.0620.0600.878---
252+ Rhydon RS0.0530.1300.6000.1760.0340.006
170+ Metagross MM0.0530.6850.2040.0470.0090.002

Of course, the "beyond 6HKO" probabilities are non-zero with less-than-perfect Accuracy, but they correspond to unrealistically long miss streaks. The bulk of the probability lies in 3HKO or more as you see in the case of Starmie and Rhydon. Metagross 2HKOs just by hitting twice; it's simply too overwhelming to overcome with Sitrus Berry. You can play with lowering HP to increase Sitrus Berry's effect (against all general rules of EV-ing there are, but that's what Sitrus Berry makes you do), but in these efforts I haven't found a better spread in general. The only thing it can achieve is increase the odds against a specific move.

Note that while the chances against Rhydon and Metagross are slim, Shuckle should simply switch out of these anyway, which is why I really like Skarmory on a Shuckle team; it's a Sturdy party. Against Starmie, it's really useful to be able to Sweet Scent, then Toxic to eat the Lum Berry. Of course it will switch out when Jumpluff uses Sleep Powder (if it has Natural Cure), but that gives Jumpluff exactly the free turn it needs as well. If it turns out Starmie has no Lum Berry, that means it has no Ice Beam OR no Thunderbolt, in which case either Jumpluff or Skarmory outlasts it.

Let me know if I should add more calcs!

EDIT: I just did some tests with this and it seems to work really well: https://pokepast.es/e232b8302347bee8

Shuckle (M) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 220 Def / 36 SpD
Calm Nature (+SpD, -SpA)
- Sweet Scent
- Mud-Slap
- Encore
- Toxic

Toxic for the reason explained, but also handy when in a pinch. This Shuckle is very helpful when stalling Seeded opponents out of Recover or Rest PP, so Jumpluff can save its PP and re-setup before they faint.

Jumpluff (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 Def / 36 SpD / 220 Spe
Jolly Nature (+Spe, -SpA)
IVs: 20 HP
- Substitute
- Leech Seed
- Double Team
- Sleep Powder

EVs are borrowed from the Mono Grass team.

Skarmory (M) @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 68 Def / 188 SpD
Careful Nature (+SpD, -SpA)
- Thief
- Whirlwind
- Rest
- Aerial Ace

Always survives two non-crit Surfs from Slowbro/King. Also pretty tanky in general, can safely Rest + Whirlwind out Metagross after the switchin, even the Thunderpunch variant. Aerial Ace beats Grass-types except boosting Cradily, whose Leftovers you could steal.

Here's a glorious match where Jumpluff outstalls two Grass-types including LEFTOVERS CRADILY because I guessed wrong about Lapras having Quick Claw. I stole its Lum Berry once it revealed Thunderbolt. I also made a terrifying missclick, allowing Jumpluff to get hit by a Sludge Bomb. All-in-all, a must see.
I adore this team build but don't think I have the experience to pull it off lol. You weren't kidding about Jumpluff being a monster sweeper after setting up! The opponent held items trip me up for now but I really want to revisit it with more game sense. Using so many underdog pokemon is crazy fun.
 
I adore this team build but don't think I have the experience to pull it off lol. You weren't kidding about Jumpluff being a monster sweeper after setting up! The opponent held items trip me up for now but I really want to revisit it with more game sense. Using so many underdog pokemon is crazy fun.
Yeah, you need a table of sets/held items when playing this team. I also make a lot of mistakes, sometimes you just build a team with a lot of potential, but it's quite difficult to make the optimal choices every time. It's a fun team to learn playing.
 
I adore this team build but don't think I have the experience to pull it off lol. You weren't kidding about Jumpluff being a monster sweeper after setting up! The opponent held items trip me up for now but I really want to revisit it with more game sense. Using so many underdog pokemon is crazy fun.
You might enjoy the challenge I'm planning after I'm finished with my current Pike streak...
 
Here's some info on Sitrus Shuckle with the aid of a program I wrote to simulate the probabilities of avoiding a 2HKO through Sitrus, factoring in misses and critical hits as well by having one million simulations.
That program seems fantastic. You would be a great person to make or work on damage calculators. Have you contacted anyone to discuss adding this functionality to them? It would be amazing.
 
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pokemon4eva

literally my two brain cells
is a Pre-Contributor
Argh! Just lost at battle 55 in the Arena with the Lati Sandwich team to ChestoRest + Double Team Metagross. It took down my entire team thanks to multiple Double Team misses alongside Rest which allowed it to win Skill + Body in judging. This just reminded me how brutal the Arena can be sometimes. (don't mean to count this as a streak)
I remember that Metagross too, if you don't have SE attacks, it's over. I also lost around battle 50 against a Metagross that exploded on my Latias and gave the cpu the win, despite being its last Pokemon as well...
 

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