Spreadsheet still spells Diancie's name wrong, by the way.
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Gen Wun (4/29: Final Quick Bans)
- Thread starter Jajoken
- Start date
That means we're at the final stretch! I've opened up the last four slots on the spreadsheet -- if there are any TMs I cut that people feel I should add back, let me know. Otherwise, our moveset project is nearly complete! Thanks for the help.
Also -- I've added special moveset additions for Pokemon that have had their type changed, or for cases like Mega Aerodactyl where the base form doesn't get Rock Slide in Gen 1. Some Pokemon, like Genesect and Probopass, could already learn the relevant moves of their new type by TM, so I kept them the same.
If people notice something weird in any of the various changes, bring it up and it may get changed. Otherwise, we'll be moving towards the quick-ban phase and begin separating into the standard and Ubers tiers.
Well, the thing is Rock coverage in Gen I is almost nonexistent (This will not be true in Gen Wun, mind, but you still max out at 75 BP 90 Accuracy Rock Slide), Steel doesn't exist to resist and be super effective, Fire doesn't resist it yet, Fighting is bad because Fighting moves are bad (Cross Chop is the only Fighting move that doesn't 100% suck and is still 100 BP/80 Accuracy, and Fire is actually OK (95 BP 100 Accuracy spammable Burn chance move, or Fire Blast which is 120 BP 85 Accuracy and a higher chance of Burn) but not a particularly crucial type because Steel isn't around to demand you use it or Fighting or Ground.
So Gen I is Ice's heyday all around.
I was mostly thinking in terms of a scenario like
-Guy blues a Pokemon for X move because it learns X move
-Different guy comes along, says "wait that's ridiculous no" and reds it
-Nobody notices that this is incorrect and it makes its way into the Pet Mod
for why I was proposing alternate colors, though I suppose at this point it would be a colossal pain in the butt to go back and switch to this method.
EDIT: Also, a question: are Gen I Pokemon going exclusively by their Gen I movelist, or are they including anything from Gen I they can learn in later generations? Like, almost nothing can learn Rock Slide in Gen I, but a lot of Gen I Pokemon can learn it starting from Emerald onward. And if the answer is "only their Gen I learnlist", a sub-question: does this count anything they can get from being transferred back from Gen II, since that's strictly legal for a Gen I cart, or is that also forbidden?
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Gen 1 Pokemon can only use what's able to be replicated on a Gen 1 cart. If that includes transfers, then that's okay too. The reason for this is that the flavor I had in mind was "Gen 1, as is, with new Pokemon added
Skull Bash is the last move that needs to be filled: I finished Sky Attack, Swift and deleted Dream Eater (already a TM in Gen 6, I'd forgotten). If it's not completed, I'll take care of it myself once I get a bit of free time. Then -- we will proceed into speculative quick-banning while the Meta is coded.
Is this playable anywhere?
"Crowbat" too.
Not yet.
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It's too bad this isn't Gen Tu, from Mega Charizard X's perspective. No Dragon STAB to abuse. Still, Fire/Dragon isn't the worst defensive typing -it's too bad Fire doesn't yet cover the Ice weakness though. Overall probably outclassed by Mega Charizard Y in practice, even with Rock coverage being an actual thing in Gen Wun, unlike Gen I.
Also, just for absolute clarity: the Arceus Formes will all, in fact, be their apparent types in this, yes? Rather than being Normal typed but changed by a Plate.
Hydreigon is really interesting to me since it's got Giratina's typing but isn't an Uber-tier Pokemon. Too bad there's no Shadow Ball yet.
Speaking of Hydreigon, I see it learns some new Gen I TMs like Body Slam, etc but I was wondering where I can go to see all its legal moves in one place. As it stands I have to first look at Hydreigon's current TM list from Gen VI then pick out any TMs that are also Gen I--which I can't always remember--so then I also have to cross-reference a list of Gen I TMs. That's three separate pages to pick through, including the blue/red spreadsheet.
1) Does a compendium like this already exist in the OP and I just missed it?
2) Are there plans to compile one so we have one place to find the resources needed to play this?
1) Does a compendium like this already exist in the OP and I just missed it?
2) Are there plans to compile one so we have one place to find the resources needed to play this?
Well, from the perspective of looking at a Pokemon in the Teambuilder, if you can recall what all is exclusive to Gen I that helps a lot -any move that's legal to the Pokemon anyway and exists in Gen I is available to them in this meta. But yeah, there's also all the added TM compatibilities and flat-out added moves (eg Xerneas being given Leech Seed), and no there is not currently a compendium of the various Pokemon's full learnlists. (Unless Jajoken has secretly made one but not posted/linked it)
Oh man making such a list will be such a pain. A given pokemon's learnlist will be short (Seriously, go to Bulbapedia and look at a Pokemon's Gen I learnlist -it's almost always tiny) but... so many Pokemon. I'm not even sure how you'd format that, either. It would help a lot.
EDIT: Thinking on it, Ghosts are going to be really good in this meta, because their one weakness to Ghost has one representative -Lick, which is so bad as to be ignorable. (Golurk, for instance, would rather use a neutrally effective Earthquake than a doubly effective Lick -which isn't even possible in Gen I!) Hoopa in particular has no weaknesses. (Remember: Psychic is immune to Ghost, not vulnerable!)
Oh man making such a list will be such a pain. A given pokemon's learnlist will be short (Seriously, go to Bulbapedia and look at a Pokemon's Gen I learnlist -it's almost always tiny) but... so many Pokemon. I'm not even sure how you'd format that, either. It would help a lot.
EDIT: Thinking on it, Ghosts are going to be really good in this meta, because their one weakness to Ghost has one representative -Lick, which is so bad as to be ignorable. (Golurk, for instance, would rather use a neutrally effective Earthquake than a doubly effective Lick -which isn't even possible in Gen I!) Hoopa in particular has no weaknesses. (Remember: Psychic is immune to Ghost, not vulnerable!)
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Friday afternoon updates!
- TM addition list completed! Skull Bash and Sky Attack have been removed, as Sky Attack is a Move Tutor in ORAS and Skull Bash is actually even worse in Gen 1.
- Earlier decision in movesets reversed! Gen 1 Pokemon can use any move that they can use in Gen 6 as long as it exists in Gen 1, in addition to their normal Gen 1 moveset. I made this decision because there aren't a whole lot of cases where this is relevant anyway, so I might as well open up the world to Amensia Kingler and the like. The best change from this is that more Rock type 'mon are viable, as Rock Slide had pitiful distribution.
- New Move Guide! After seeing Eevee General's post, I decided to make things a little easier on teambuilding. The guide explains itself, but it should help you find moves that you can actually use on later Gen Pokemon.
Finally...while no one appears to be coding this right now (seriously if anyone would like to start on that, I'd really appreciate it), I'm going to move into speculative Quick Banning. I'd like to discuss Pokemon that are obviously broken for various reasons so we can filter out the Ubers. Before things even get started, let's get rid of the King.
Banned:
Mewtwo
Mewtwo-MY
Mewtwo-MX
Mewtwo was the Ubers tier, way back when. I don't think I need to argue this point, so let's move on to new ground. A good place too look is Psychic types, as some later Gen 'mon have ridiculous Special and essentially no type weakness.
Possible Bans:
Mew (Gen 1 ban -- is it still worth it?)
Alakazam-M (175 Special, 150 Speed and the best offensive and defensive type in the game makes this thing a fast, powerful wall. You should be scared.)
A bunch of other stuff (Discuss it! Bring up your own nominations!)
I'd also like to remind you that some Pokemon that are obviously broken in Gen 6 may not be in Gen Wun. Giratina, for instance, has no STAB attacks, at all. Is it still worth a ban? Let's see.
Finally, we're only going to Quick Ban things that are obviously broken, like most cover Legendaries. Leave the borderline bans for once this actually gets coded (seriously someone please help me.)
Well, you have a lot to discuss, so have at it!
- TM addition list completed! Skull Bash and Sky Attack have been removed, as Sky Attack is a Move Tutor in ORAS and Skull Bash is actually even worse in Gen 1.
- Earlier decision in movesets reversed! Gen 1 Pokemon can use any move that they can use in Gen 6 as long as it exists in Gen 1, in addition to their normal Gen 1 moveset. I made this decision because there aren't a whole lot of cases where this is relevant anyway, so I might as well open up the world to Amensia Kingler and the like. The best change from this is that more Rock type 'mon are viable, as Rock Slide had pitiful distribution.
- New Move Guide! After seeing Eevee General's post, I decided to make things a little easier on teambuilding. The guide explains itself, but it should help you find moves that you can actually use on later Gen Pokemon.
Finally...while no one appears to be coding this right now (seriously if anyone would like to start on that, I'd really appreciate it), I'm going to move into speculative Quick Banning. I'd like to discuss Pokemon that are obviously broken for various reasons so we can filter out the Ubers. Before things even get started, let's get rid of the King.
Banned:
Mewtwo
Mewtwo-MY
Mewtwo-MX
Mewtwo was the Ubers tier, way back when. I don't think I need to argue this point, so let's move on to new ground. A good place too look is Psychic types, as some later Gen 'mon have ridiculous Special and essentially no type weakness.
Possible Bans:
Mew (Gen 1 ban -- is it still worth it?)
Alakazam-M (175 Special, 150 Speed and the best offensive and defensive type in the game makes this thing a fast, powerful wall. You should be scared.)
A bunch of other stuff (Discuss it! Bring up your own nominations!)
I'd also like to remind you that some Pokemon that are obviously broken in Gen 6 may not be in Gen Wun. Giratina, for instance, has no STAB attacks, at all. Is it still worth a ban? Let's see.
Finally, we're only going to Quick Ban things that are obviously broken, like most cover Legendaries. Leave the borderline bans for once this actually gets coded (seriously someone please help me.)
Well, you have a lot to discuss, so have at it!
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Pokemon that learn Amnesia. (Via dsing, doesn't necessarily include all Gen I proper cases)
FEAR THEM.
Audino, Azumarill, Bibarel, Bouffalant, Camerupt, Castform, Clefable, Corsola, Cradily, Deoxys, Drifblim, Furret, Garbodor, Gastrodon, Girafarig, Golduck, Gorebyss, Grumpig, Heatmor, Jumpluff, Kingler, Lanturn, Lickilicky, Magcargo, Mamoswine, Mantine, Mew, Mewtwo, Nidoking, Persian, Piloswine, Quagsire, Regice, Registeel, Relicanth, Scrafty, Shiftry, Simisear, Slaking, Slowbro, Slowking, Smeargle, Snorlax, Swalot, Swoobat, Tangela, Tangrowth, Torkoal, Torterra, Uxie, Venusaur, Volcarona, Wailord, Whiscash
FEAR THEM.
I've updated the OP and second post.
Amnesia Deoxys...;_;
Not Deoxys doesn't learn Nasty Plot in OU anyway. Although now that it also tanks Special hits, that's really pretty terrifying.
All of this discussion only serves to remind me just how broken Gen 1 really was.
I'm more thinking of Deoxys Defense. It has a 50/160/160 defensive spread...which also mean it uses 160 as its offensive stat. A bulky Amnesia Booster with Recover just makes it a more terrifying Gen 1 Slowbro.
mewtwo ban doesn't seem necessary, unless you're doing it purely because of tradition i guess.
i'm definitely wondering what slaking will be able to accomplish in this. amnesia regice seems cool too?
i'm definitely wondering what slaking will be able to accomplish in this. amnesia regice seems cool too?
Mewtwo ban is definitely still necessary. His Gen 1 stat spread is bonkers, his movepool is huge and this is the gen where pure Psychic is the best type in the game. If he's still worth banning in Gen 6, he's definitely worth banning in Gen Wun. For his Megas...you either get the highest Special in the game, or the ability to one-shot Blissey. The only reason he's the only ban so far is due for tradition's sake, to introduce the Quick Ban phase and get an image for the second post.
oh ok yeah, if you're banning a bunch of other stuff too then that makes more sense.
I think a good starting point for bans would be to ban the giant BST titans, and then look at the ones that are maybe not as broken. Of course, BST in general is a bit wonky due to spesul stats, but things like Ogre and Groudon still have bonker stats. This also includes Slaking and Regigigas imho. Then there's the megas to look at. It all depends on what you want the "power level" so to speak to be.
Things like Kyurem...well, all Kyurem really to be honest, should probaby go.
EDIT: As Ghoul Kind said, Hoopa looks pretty promising! Not only is it the best type in the game, it's also immune to the second best type in the game (Normal - I'd argue Tauros was more influential than Zam in Gen 1). It also has a decent enough attack, which lets it go mixed and use things like Hyper Beam, which help vs other Psychic-types with its spread. However, the mon I'm keeping my out for is Mega Metagross. Rock / Psychic is really good, and it has all the stats to back it up. Its massive attack and STAB on Rock Slide lets it bypass other Psychics that have the "Psychic Spread (low Def)" while having STAB Psychic off a decent 110 to smack around things like Rhyperior. It's main competition is Mega Diancie, who also looks solid.
Things like Kyurem...well, all Kyurem really to be honest, should probaby go.
EDIT: As Ghoul Kind said, Hoopa looks pretty promising! Not only is it the best type in the game, it's also immune to the second best type in the game (Normal - I'd argue Tauros was more influential than Zam in Gen 1). It also has a decent enough attack, which lets it go mixed and use things like Hyper Beam, which help vs other Psychic-types with its spread. However, the mon I'm keeping my out for is Mega Metagross. Rock / Psychic is really good, and it has all the stats to back it up. Its massive attack and STAB on Rock Slide lets it bypass other Psychics that have the "Psychic Spread (low Def)" while having STAB Psychic off a decent 110 to smack around things like Rhyperior. It's main competition is Mega Diancie, who also looks solid.
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Probable Ubers
Mega Slowbro: 180 Defense and Amnesia off a respectable Special stat. Its best recovery is Rest, but whatever. Psychic/Surf or Hydro Pump/Amnesia/Rest is still a nightmare for most things, even with Rest being up to five turns of Sleep in Gen I and denying you a turn when you wake up. Not nearly as bad as...
Deoxys Defense: 150 Defense and Special, has Amnesia and Recover. It also has Extreme Speed for landing finishing blows and the like, I don't care that its Attack is only 50. All it needs is Psychic/Amnesia/Recover to be done anyway, why not run Extreme Speed?
Deoxys Attack: Only 20 Defense, but it has 180 Special, also has Amnesia and Recover, and also has Extreme Speed, which is alarming off its 180 Attack and its Speed tier. It can plausibly switch in on a dedicated Special attacker, throw up Amnesia, and start killing everything that isn't faster than it -and there's not much that is. Screw being the best revenge-killer in the game, say hi to one of the best sweepers, ever.
Hoopa-Unbound (And possibly regular): Best typing in the game, full stop. Depends in part on its movepool -at least it doesn't get Recovery/Softboiled, for instance.
Arceus: Honestly, while not every variant is going to be viable, it's still 120 all around and gets horror shows like Swords Dance+Extreme Speed+Recover.
Mega Gengar: 170 Special and lightning Speed. It doesn't have Shadow Ball, but it can still smack you with The Best Type, even if it doesn't have STAB, and meanwhile it's an amazing typing itself. About its only flaw is that Psychic types in general laugh at it -though maybe that will prove to be enough to balance it.
Dialga: Two of the best types in the game, and yes, Dialga does get Psychic. Nice.
Slaking+Regigigas: Did you know Slaking gets Amnesia? Also, do I really need to explain this one?
Standard Ubers That Suck
Mega Blaziken: No Baton Pass, no Speed Boost. Might still be Uber just for having excellent mixed offenses and a solid Speed tier. Maybe.
Giratina/Giratina-Origin: No STAB offenses at all, awful recovery, hazards don't exist, Abilities don't exist, force-switching doesn't exist... It's bulky and has good stats all around, and has two excellent defensive types put together, but Gen I is also kinda stall-hatey, with crits flying around constantly and vast swaths of stall's best, most crucial tools just gone.
Aegislash: Either you're a wall with no recovery (Not even Leftovers because Gen I) and... you're what, throwing out Toxic and hoping for the best? Or you're a slow mixed attack with no STABs and no durability. I mean, this is Gen I, so everything has maxed EVs, so the bulk is less bad than it sounds (This is part of why Alakazam is so good in Gen I and not so much starting from Gen III), but either way Aegislash kind of sucks.
Greninja: OK "sucks" is probably a strong word, but it doesn't have Protean so it loses the thing that got it kicked to Ubers in Standard. Still actually pretty decent, especially since it will crit a lot.
Genesect: No Scarf, worse typing, no Bug STAB... Ouch.
Darkrai: Yeah, you're fast. Yeah, Ghost is awesome. There's honestly better out there, like Mega Gengar.
Mega Kangaskhan: No Parental Bond, no Fake Out, no Power Up Punch, no Drain Punch, no Return/Frustration... certainly still a good Normal type, but clearly outclassed by the likes of Slaking and Regigigas.
Mega Mawile: I'm not even checking its typing or anything. It's crap. No Huge Power? No Sucker Punch? Dead, gone, useless.
Shaymin-Sky: Because now the double Ice weakness is horrifying and meanwhile you're... what, spamming Mega Drain? Giga Drain didn't come along until Gen II, and it sucked then anyway! No flinch-hax, crap STABs (Even if we give it Drill Peck, which would be so silly), crap bulk...
Xerneas: Could be worse, but I'll be surprised if it is broken. Come on, it's a Grass type in Gen I and has lost Geomancy.
Mega Salamence: OK, so it has a higher BST than Dragonite, but a worse movepool... and no Aerilate.
Maybe I'll cover more later. This is interesting though.
Mega Slowbro: 180 Defense and Amnesia off a respectable Special stat. Its best recovery is Rest, but whatever. Psychic/Surf or Hydro Pump/Amnesia/Rest is still a nightmare for most things, even with Rest being up to five turns of Sleep in Gen I and denying you a turn when you wake up. Not nearly as bad as...
Deoxys Defense: 150 Defense and Special, has Amnesia and Recover. It also has Extreme Speed for landing finishing blows and the like, I don't care that its Attack is only 50. All it needs is Psychic/Amnesia/Recover to be done anyway, why not run Extreme Speed?
Deoxys Attack: Only 20 Defense, but it has 180 Special, also has Amnesia and Recover, and also has Extreme Speed, which is alarming off its 180 Attack and its Speed tier. It can plausibly switch in on a dedicated Special attacker, throw up Amnesia, and start killing everything that isn't faster than it -and there's not much that is. Screw being the best revenge-killer in the game, say hi to one of the best sweepers, ever.
Hoopa-Unbound (And possibly regular): Best typing in the game, full stop. Depends in part on its movepool -at least it doesn't get Recovery/Softboiled, for instance.
Arceus: Honestly, while not every variant is going to be viable, it's still 120 all around and gets horror shows like Swords Dance+Extreme Speed+Recover.
Mega Gengar: 170 Special and lightning Speed. It doesn't have Shadow Ball, but it can still smack you with The Best Type, even if it doesn't have STAB, and meanwhile it's an amazing typing itself. About its only flaw is that Psychic types in general laugh at it -though maybe that will prove to be enough to balance it.
Dialga: Two of the best types in the game, and yes, Dialga does get Psychic. Nice.
Slaking+Regigigas: Did you know Slaking gets Amnesia? Also, do I really need to explain this one?
Standard Ubers That Suck
Mega Blaziken: No Baton Pass, no Speed Boost. Might still be Uber just for having excellent mixed offenses and a solid Speed tier. Maybe.
Giratina/Giratina-Origin: No STAB offenses at all, awful recovery, hazards don't exist, Abilities don't exist, force-switching doesn't exist... It's bulky and has good stats all around, and has two excellent defensive types put together, but Gen I is also kinda stall-hatey, with crits flying around constantly and vast swaths of stall's best, most crucial tools just gone.
Aegislash: Either you're a wall with no recovery (Not even Leftovers because Gen I) and... you're what, throwing out Toxic and hoping for the best? Or you're a slow mixed attack with no STABs and no durability. I mean, this is Gen I, so everything has maxed EVs, so the bulk is less bad than it sounds (This is part of why Alakazam is so good in Gen I and not so much starting from Gen III), but either way Aegislash kind of sucks.
Greninja: OK "sucks" is probably a strong word, but it doesn't have Protean so it loses the thing that got it kicked to Ubers in Standard. Still actually pretty decent, especially since it will crit a lot.
Genesect: No Scarf, worse typing, no Bug STAB... Ouch.
Darkrai: Yeah, you're fast. Yeah, Ghost is awesome. There's honestly better out there, like Mega Gengar.
Mega Kangaskhan: No Parental Bond, no Fake Out, no Power Up Punch, no Drain Punch, no Return/Frustration... certainly still a good Normal type, but clearly outclassed by the likes of Slaking and Regigigas.
Mega Mawile: I'm not even checking its typing or anything. It's crap. No Huge Power? No Sucker Punch? Dead, gone, useless.
Shaymin-Sky: Because now the double Ice weakness is horrifying and meanwhile you're... what, spamming Mega Drain? Giga Drain didn't come along until Gen II, and it sucked then anyway! No flinch-hax, crap STABs (Even if we give it Drill Peck, which would be so silly), crap bulk...
Xerneas: Could be worse, but I'll be surprised if it is broken. Come on, it's a Grass type in Gen I and has lost Geomancy.
Mega Salamence: OK, so it has a higher BST than Dragonite, but a worse movepool... and no Aerilate.
Maybe I'll cover more later. This is interesting though.
Very extensive and well thought-out list, thank you. This will be a good basis for further discussion.
Two minor things, though:
- Extremespeed is a Gen II move
- Aegislash actually gets STAB Submission, thanks to its new typing. Still probably bad, though.
Dammit. I always remember it as a Gen I move that Gen II made better. Well, that makes Deoxys Attack less broken -it's actually plausible to wear it down with Quick Attack.
And oh yeah I'd remembered Aegislash had changed types but forgotten it was Fighting. But yeah, still pretty awful.
And oh yeah I'd remembered Aegislash had changed types but forgotten it was Fighting. But yeah, still pretty awful.
I've decided to start the first Quick Ban voting phase! See the second post of the thread for the format and PM me your vote, then discuss in the thread. The options have all been brought up so there shouldn't be any surprises. You have until Friday night.
Also of note: Deoxys-D has been nerfed! Or rather, fixed. I realized that giving it such a high Special made absolutely no sense -- I was using its Special Defense when all other forms used the Special Attack stat. To make things consistent, it has a paltry base 70 Special, making it much less of a threat. However, the A and even N forms still may be too much, so they've been added to the first slate.
Also of note: Deoxys-D has been nerfed! Or rather, fixed. I realized that giving it such a high Special made absolutely no sense -- I was using its Special Defense when all other forms used the Special Attack stat. To make things consistent, it has a paltry base 70 Special, making it much less of a threat. However, the A and even N forms still may be too much, so they've been added to the first slate.
So having taken a quick look at Hoopa-Unbound's movepool...
-The elemental punches are all available to it, plus Thunderbolt and Psychic. This means it has all the coverage it needs.
-Its typing is perfect. No weaknesses, still has other advantages. (Even if resistance and immunity to Fighting is completely redundant)
-It has 170 Special.
-It has enough Attack to actually use whatever Physical moves it gets.
It has three flaws conversely.
-A bad Speed tier. (80) Tons of things will go first, which exaggerates its other disadvantages.
-Bad Defense (60) plus meh HP. (80) However, this is Gen I, so that's deceptive -everything has max EVs in everything, which in conjunction with Gen I IVs is the equivalent of approximately 40 and 1/2 base stats. In Gen III onward, attackers will have maxed offenses but many Pokemon, even Stallmons, won't invest any in their weaker defensive stat. This means Hoopa's Physical bulk is actually approximately, in modern terms, the equivalent of 100 Defense and 120 HP with no defensive investment.
-No healing+no Growth/Amnesia. Assuming this isn't "corrected" by us, that does make it less of a ridiculous threat than the likes of Mega Alakazam, in terms of just setting up and going for the sweep... but it's still a monster, and saying it's "less bad" than Mega Alakazam is not remotely the same thing as saying it's "not broken".
I've already covered everything else but Mega Alakazam, whom I didn't cover because... it's Gen I Alakazam, but better. Did I really need to say anything?
-The elemental punches are all available to it, plus Thunderbolt and Psychic. This means it has all the coverage it needs.
-Its typing is perfect. No weaknesses, still has other advantages. (Even if resistance and immunity to Fighting is completely redundant)
-It has 170 Special.
-It has enough Attack to actually use whatever Physical moves it gets.
It has three flaws conversely.
-A bad Speed tier. (80) Tons of things will go first, which exaggerates its other disadvantages.
-Bad Defense (60) plus meh HP. (80) However, this is Gen I, so that's deceptive -everything has max EVs in everything, which in conjunction with Gen I IVs is the equivalent of approximately 40 and 1/2 base stats. In Gen III onward, attackers will have maxed offenses but many Pokemon, even Stallmons, won't invest any in their weaker defensive stat. This means Hoopa's Physical bulk is actually approximately, in modern terms, the equivalent of 100 Defense and 120 HP with no defensive investment.
-No healing+no Growth/Amnesia. Assuming this isn't "corrected" by us, that does make it less of a ridiculous threat than the likes of Mega Alakazam, in terms of just setting up and going for the sweep... but it's still a monster, and saying it's "less bad" than Mega Alakazam is not remotely the same thing as saying it's "not broken".
I've already covered everything else but Mega Alakazam, whom I didn't cover because... it's Gen I Alakazam, but better. Did I really need to say anything?