Let's all stop using Gyarados to sweep and instead use it as a Sleep Talker. Nattorei makes for an excellent partner for Gyarados, resisting it's weaknesses in Electric- and Rock-type attacks while Gyarados resists Fire- and Fighting-type attacks.
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Gyarados
- Thread starter Venser
- Start date
Does Flamethrower get the same 2HKOs? If so, I'd use that for anti-miss purposes.
You can't use a -SAtk nature and it needs about 176 SAtk (stat, not evs, so 80 probably taken from speed, as long as you outspeed Tyranitar before D-Dance it's good) to have a good chance of 2 hit koing max/max Nattorei and other Nattoreis always with Flamethrower.
Except that Nattorei will eventually win out against bulky Dragon Dance Gyrados because of no recovery and since it isn't intimidated, Power Whip is a likely 3 hit ko while Gyrados doesn't even with +3 Waterfall without rain at if Nattorei has any defense.
Edit-With 2 Dragon Dances, Gyrados can start flailing about with Bounce and is a 2 hit ko then though which I hadn't realized. Plus the chance of paralysis could come in handy. Misses aren't something to look forward to though.
The gyarados I use uses nattorie as a set up opportunity. Taunt, bounce, waterfall, DD, lefties has been getting me a lot of sweeps, especially vs rain teams who try and use nattorie and let me get +3 +3 to outspeed all of their swift swimmers.
I assume Dragon Dance/Waterfall/Earthquake/Stone Edge? You need Taunt to prevent Thunderwave/Roar (or take out Nattorei first) and Waterfall/Earthquake is resisted by a number of things that are threatening.
Water/Ground is walled by too many things, particularly the Lati twins and most Grass types.
What sort of threats does a defensive Gyarados face? Also, does a defensive Gyarados have to be a RestTalker to be successful?
Why all the defensive Gyarados?
I generally run a BulkyDD Gyarados, the old 4th gen set, with Taunt. It works wonders, especially with Rain boosting it's Waterfall even more.
Ferrothorn? It can't seed or status you because of Taunt, and you can just DD in it's face, and then Bounce [Netting you extra Lefties to heal off Ferrothorn's low damage].
Or you could run Magnezone as support.
Offensive Gyarados still works, it's just that it requires more than 252 Atk/252Spd and brute force. You need to play to Gyara's bulk.
I generally run a BulkyDD Gyarados, the old 4th gen set, with Taunt. It works wonders, especially with Rain boosting it's Waterfall even more.
Ferrothorn? It can't seed or status you because of Taunt, and you can just DD in it's face, and then Bounce [Netting you extra Lefties to heal off Ferrothorn's low damage].
Or you could run Magnezone as support.
Offensive Gyarados still works, it's just that it requires more than 252 Atk/252Spd and brute force. You need to play to Gyara's bulk.
Has anyone used the choice scarf moxie set successfuly? It obviously wants rain, but if I add politoad it seems impossible to cover relevent threats with the last 4 pokes (breloom, ferothorn, rotom w, porygon2, opposing gyra, dragonite, etc). Im leaning twards jirachi to check breloom and dragonite and for wish support but Idk..
what moves does scarfmoxiedos use? i'd like to try that one out.
From peoples experience does the old electric immune ability combination work or is team preview too much
Lanturn and Gyarados work amazingly together.
Gyara definately has some great bulk. 95/79/100 with 79 def boosted by intimidate. I love him, he can invest in bulk and 1 dd is all you need to patch uninvested att and kinda speed.
It might get the 2hk0 on physically bulky, but care to take a look at other scenarios?:
No weather:
"Standard" Ferrothorn set: 252 hp, 252 sp def, sassy nature (+sp def). 50%-59% if gyara holds life orb, 38%-45% without LO. either way, a 3-4hk0 with lefties, depending on damage rolls
Physically bulky Ferrothorn: 252 hp / def, impish. 67%-9% with lifeorb (clean 2hk0) 51%-61% without LO (a 3hk0 at worst with lefties)
In the rain, it's half as bad, which ferro is ussually in.
really, fire blast isn't worth the moveslot, to KO one poke (MAYBE 4 if someone ran calcs for scizor/forretress/skarmory) which can be handled by numerous potential teammates.
Try actually investing in SP Def. Fire blast works on Gyara, I use one and he 2hko's all of his counters, just not in rain. If you run 0 sp att and a - nature, of course you can't do it with a pokemon that has naturally low sp att. And the thing with gyara is that YOU CAN AFFORD to leave alone his attack because his best boosting move, Dragon Dance, fixes anything caused by uninvestment, and it's already close to 300 without investment. Gyarados is a beast, and if you can use fire blast correctly, it pays off. He's a complete monster after 1 or 2 dd's, and has great neutral coverage in 2 physical attacks. ANd I very very often get free KO's with him.
tl;dr, People aren't getting results with Mixgyara because they don't know how to do it. Learn to use him properly and it really does work. I've had nothing but success with my set.
tl;dr, People aren't getting results with Mixgyara because they don't know how to do it. Learn to use him properly and it really does work. I've had nothing but success with my set.
Thanks Saint :)
Like your mom was.
OT: Honestly, why do so many people reckon Bounce as a gimmick move? Gen IV I used a BulkyDDdos with Taunt, DD, Bounce and Waterfall to extremely good effect. I still think that BulkyDD is the only way to play Gyarados.
i think it is just you, gyarados ran the same set WITHOUT moxie last generation and totally dominated. what nature are you running? adamant or jolly, Adamant may give you the power you want.