How Powerful is Bluffing in Pokemon?

[cantab]

I run Heatproof Bronzong, but NOT primarily to bluff. I run Heatproof because I have three other ground immunities and a resist. It makes it a decent counter to or lure for fire types, who I then put a big dent in with EQ (my current EV spread is defensive so it rarely OHKOs), or sometimes explode on. Even when I make it blatantly obvious it's Heatproof, by switching it into a fire type or if there's spikes around, it still works well. But the bluff factor is there - people don't tend to earthquake it because they assume it's got levitate, and they DO tend to use fire because they don't think it will be heatproof. I just don't go out of my way to encourage the perception it's a levitator.

I also use Lum Berry on my DDMence. Again, it's not a bluff as such, but it does let me dragon dance on a predicted status move. It's not uncommon for people to send in obvious statusers, and I just think to myself 'set up bait'.

 

[Sc4rfCh0mp]

When I think of bluffing, I usually consider not just bluffing items, but bluffing movesets as well. It really only works the first time that you pull off the bluff, but it usually can be worth it. I also usually consider bluffing the same as luring, because by pulling off the bluff, you can bring in opponent Pokemon that you want in and kill it off by surprise. One of the best examples of this is probably Trap Tran. It is a great lure for bulky waters and Blissey because the normal Heatran will get walled by these unless it catches the switch and Explodes on them. By using Magma Storm to trap the bulky waters, Heatran can lock them in battle and either switch to something to take them out or explode on them, which creates room for Pokemon X to sweep.

 

[MrIndigo]

Bluffing (in any game) tends to be overrated quite a lot, especially by good players. The problem with bluffing is that you need:

a) A situation where having some quality X is substantially different to not having it,
b) Both players to be aware of the difference.
c) An advantage created by your opponent believing you have X when you do not.
d) A playstyle/demeanour that suggests to the opponent that you have quality X.
3) An opponent who is smart enough to recognise that your playstyle/demeanour suggests you have quality X.


It's actually that last point that causes bluffs to most frequently fail. It's less common for a bluff to work simply because your opponent doesn't recognise that you're trying to signal them at all. The other one that is often not present is (c); a lot of the time, there is no real difference in the way your opponent should play between the situation where you had X and where you didn't have X. Consequently, even if the bluff succeeds, you don't actually gain an advantage.


EDIT: For clarity, surprising your opponent is not the same as a bluff. Using an unorthodox set is not automatically a bluff (although it can be used in conjunction with a bluff for additional effect).

A bluff is only when you deliberately signal (typically by making a play that hinders yourself) to an opponent something that is false in order to gain an advantage. A good example of this that was mentioned on the previous page is switching out an Electric type that has HP Grass when Swampert switches in. This sends an indication to the opponent that your Electric pokemon does not have an attack suitable for attacking Swampert. You have made a deliberate decision to sow a false impression in his mind, that you hope to recoup later.

An example that is not a bluff is the one given about Latias and the unusual Tyranitar set. Switching in Tyranitar to use Pursuit is something that almost all Tyranitar sets can do. It gives your opponent no information that will change his behaviour. If he makes a bad guess and just assumes that you are a CBer, then he has made a mistake, but it doesn't retroactively make your action a bluff.

Let's say earlier in the battle, you had Tyranitar out against something weak to Dark. You use Crunch as they switch to something netural to Dark. You deal enough damage to put it into KO range of Stone Edge, but it will survive a second Crunch. A bluff would be to use Crunch here instead of Stone Edge; you are deliberately making a 'poor' move to give your opponent the impression that you have a Choice Band, to try and fish out a situation later where he makes a different decision than he would otherwise (switching in Lucario to set up on Pursuit), that you can use to an advantage (killing off a sweeper you would otherwise have difficulty with).

Another example of a bluff: Lets say you run a SubCharge Rotom-H (i.e. no Scarf). Your opponent kills something of yours with a +2 Lucario with high health. You switch in Rotom-H. Lucario could outspeed OHKO you with a Crunch, so this looks like a bad manouvre for you. But your opponent sees you switching in a Rotom-H into a +2 Lucario and concludes that the only reason you would do that is if your Rotom-H could outspeed and OHKO with Overheat; you wouldn't risk Rotom-H otherwise. Wanting to save his Lucario for another attempted sweep later, he switches out, allowing you to set up a Substitute.

 

[rvrstar12]

i used a expert belt heatran to great success... you can bluff a choice item..and then when your opent switches in a special wall they get a surprise taunt...
bluffing doesnt always work of course...but when it does...it pays off

 

[mtr]

Another example of a bluff: Lets say you run a SubCharge Rotom-H (i.e. no Scarf). Your opponent kills something of yours with a +2 Lucario with high health. You switch in Rotom-H. Lucario could outspeed OHKO you with a Crunch, so this looks like a bad manouvre for you. But your opponent sees you switching in a Rotom-H into a +2 Lucario and concludes that the only reason you would do that is if your Rotom-H could outspeed and OHKO with Overheat; you wouldn't risk Rotom-H otherwise. Wanting to save his Lucario for another attempted sweep later, he switches out, allowing you to set up a Substitute.

Erm, Sub/Charge Rotom-A uses Leftovers to give it an chance against Blissey outside sand, along with general healing. In order for this bluff to work, you would probably need to keep Stealth Rock off the field, or use a suboptimal item.

 

[whistle]

if Rotom-A switches in after a kill, your leftovers won't be revealed

 

[MrIndigo]

Erm, Sub/Charge Rotom-A uses Leftovers to give it an chance against Blissey outside sand, along with general healing. In order for this bluff to work, you would probably need to keep Stealth Rock off the field, or use a suboptimal item.

You're right, you'd need it to be pre-SR.

The point wasn't to say "This is a bluff you should try!", just to illustrate the difference between a bluff and surprise in general play.

 

[PotheadSkanker]

I Bluff scarfmamo all the time, Tyrnatiar used dragon dance, it kills one of my pokes, switch in mamoswine, "oh shit misclick", EQ 1hkos.. worked everysingle time, I also run iceshard aswell as Icefang, to keep the bluff of a scarf going, most people assume Band, and will stay in, only to get 1hkoed by EQ, notable examples, are Starmie, and Weavile

 

[ZandgaiaX]

I use a set which it's mean reason is bluffing Scizor around:

@Scarf
Ability: Levitate
Ev's: 6 Hp, 252 speed, 252 Spatt.
Nature: Timed (+spd, - att)
>T-bolt
>Shadowball
>Hp-ground
>Trick
T-bolt and Shadowball are natural, normal and boring. Nothing special, trick too. But Hp-ground is the clue of this: you can easily switch into scizor who'll likely switch out, and use Hp-ground on the heatran switch if it has one. It has several other uses, but this is the main one. It's especially useful for a SDscizor team.

 

[M BLADE]

Yes, bluffing is a powerful tool for winning... but for good bluffers.

For example: i still have a CB Hippowdon lead that bluffs pretty well. Azelf, for example, most of the time tries to Taunt me while Crunch it to death. Focus Sash? Sandstream... same for Metagorss(who meets a EQ)... though Stealth Rock is guaranteed.
Jirachi almost always try to Trick me thinking it's going to SR. Just to meet a strong EQ, almost defeating if not defeating Jirachi. Ok, i end up with a useless Scarf for a slow poke. But that means no Iron Head hax on the future, and maybe even no Stealth Rock.

Another lead example is LO Yanmega. 90% of the time, people assume that it's going to Protect, just to meet a strong LO Bug Buzz/Air Slash... and logically that free speed boost. Yanmega leads also attracts Bullet Punch from Scizor like crazy, which means it's Magnezone time! Which means Weavile is free to attempt it's sweep without much worries... and that's 3 fire weak pokes!


That doesn't mean i'm a good bluffer lol. Sometimes people just "bluff" themselves...

Example: once, the enemy got a DD from Gyarados and was ready to sweep. Took out one of my pokes, and i send Starmie in hoping it could survive its Stone Edge. But... the opponent switches out it's Gyarados, probably thinking it is Scarfed...
So yes, i didn't want/meant to bluff... but the opponent "buyed" it. So, this is a "self-bluff", isn't it?

 

[Age of Kings]

In my experience, my opponents are usually too smart to fall for a bluff. Maybe I just don't do it well or have a good grasp of it, but honestly I find myself better off without them. It's better to bring a more unexpected set (i.e. Sub Heatran, U-turn Azelf) and have the opponent predict incorrectly. That sort of is bluffing though... ?_?
Bottom line is that while bluffing can sometimes be effective, never underestimate your opponent's intelligence. Pokemon is enough of a mindgame, I have found no need to introduce more of it.

 

[syrim]

Bluffing items in particular only works once. Bluffing a moveset can have a huge impact, unless you face a player experienced to have an idea of the EV's/nature your using on your set. Bluffing is a very viable strategy though. For instance, if you have scizor issues, Baittar can alleviate as well as keeping latias somewhat in check.

So risk/reward consideration= a usually good bluff

 

[cantab]

In my experience, my opponents are usually too smart to fall for a bluff. Maybe I just don't do it well or have a good grasp of it, but honestly I find myself better off without them

Maybe it's who you're playing. My guess is that bluffing will work best against intermediate players. Novices have less knowledge of the standard sets anyway, while experts may at least be wary of the possibilities of bluffs or unorthodox sets, even if they don't detect it specifically.

 

[Destiny Warrior]

Bluffing is a two-edged sword. I remember bluffing a LO Starmie when it was actually a Rapid Spinner. I just threw Life Orb over Leftovers on my first noobish team, and it surprisingly worked. I also osed a Physical Mix Jirachi lead once, with SR over Fire Punch. So yeah, bluffing is like tossing a coin.

 

[Darth Kaiser]

I say yes bluffing is good in Pokemon for example when I switch my heatran on a pokemon that I can easily "Revenge Kill" they inmediately switch out expecting a scarf but I use a sub version of heatran and they let me a turn of setup substitute and then attack behind it just because they predict scarf. So most of the times yes bluffing is good but sometimes you just have no luck.

 

[TaiCrunch]

The most successful bluff I run is Expert Belt Gardevoir with Trace, and a moveset of Thunderbolt, Grass Knot, Focus Blast, and Psychic/Shadowball/HP[Fire]. I'm pretty sure it's just the fact that no one really knows what Gardevoir even does in OU that lets me pull off the bluff so well.

For instance, I'm battling someone with a lead Swampert. I run a lead Metagross, so the sensible move for him would be to lay down Stealth Rock. Knowing this, I pretty much get to switch in Gardevoir for free, and OHKO next turn with Grass Knot.

Not seeing any recoil damage, and what with Gardevoir being a psychic type, he switches in Tyranitar, knowing that in most cases I'd be screwed; a CB Pursuit OHKO's whether I switch or not. But! I Focus Blast and OHKO my team's single biggest threat.

Of course, Trace also helps wonders in pulling this off, especially against Heatran.

 

[Rising_Dusk]

I'm pretty sure it's just the fact that no one really knows what Gardevoir even does in OU that lets me pull off the bluff so well.

Then it's not really a bluff, it's taking advantage of someone's unfamiliarity with something. Most people in that situation will check smogon for common builds and base their strategy around the most common one. That has nothing to do with a bluff being used anywhere unless you intentionally feign one of the builds so as to surprise him later with another.

most people assume Band, and will stay in, only to get 1hkoed by EQ, notable examples, are Starmie, and Weavile

Weavile shouldn't be staying in against anything Mamoswine has. He's a revenge killer, not a sweeper. Starmie might for the surf OHKO after SR, though, but it'll outspeed anything that isn't scarf'd, so what you're suggesting isn't going to work reliably.

 

[ZandgaiaX]

Right now I'm using a bluffachi. It has the moves: SR, Ironhead, Energyball, t-wave. With lefties attached and a naive nature.

The underlined means that is new. W/o EV's in Spa, Energyball will still always 2ko leadpert. Which is awesome ^.^ since I have issues with Swampert ;>.>

The idea behind it is an easy one (if it's an Swampert)
Sr first, they'll either EQ, thinking it'll use Trick to trick a scarf to it. Or SR, who just want to get SR up, also expecting trick.
Next turn, they'll do the opposite of what they did in game 1: Sr if they've EQed first, or EQed if they SRed first. Why? I have no idea actually >.> but so far, it's always gone that way.
3rd turn: Opponent either switches or doesn't. If he doesn't: Swampert will die from an energyball. If he does, something will eat Energyball and you'll get to scout another pokemon ^.^ and 'course leaving a crippled swampert.

Yes you won't stop SR >.< but if you have problems with Swampert it works wonders. T-wave also works nicely on Sweeper switches, like if you predict a heatran switch-in. Energyball also has uses outside against swampert:
>It can hurt Gyarados more then Ironhead with a measly 7%

(From Ironhead though I think these calcs are wrong, from Ironhead...)
19.9% - 23.6% to an offensive Gyara
11.7% - 13.7% to a resttalk Gyara
15.9% - 18.9% to a BulkyGyara
19.9% - 23.5%
(From Ironhead WITH intimidate)
13.3% - 15.7% to an offensive Gyara
7.6% - 9.1% to a resttalk Gyara
10.5% - 12.7% to a Bulky Gyara
13.3% - 15.7% to a Subbounce Gyara

(From Energyball)
17.5% - 20.8% to an offensive Gyara
14.5% - 17.3% to a restalk Gyara
15.7% - 18.6% to a bulky Gyara
17.5% - 20.8% to a subbounce Gyara.

So after Intimidate, Energyball is somewhat a superior choice if you don't feel lucky. If you do, you can use Ironhead in a tandem with T-wave.

This "mixleadachi/Ihateswampert.com" set is also usefull as your last resort against a will-o-wisp carrying Rotom(all formes). If it's rlly needed that is, since Energyball doesn't lower it's power from Will-O-Wisp.

 

[Deaga]

Why don't you use Grass Knot for the superior power against Swampert and Gyarados? I'm quite sure you can actually OHKO Swampert with that.

 

[Taylor]

If I find myself at a disadvantage due to a dissapointing start to a match, I will bluff movesets and predict like crazy to try and balance things out.

Say the opponent has Salamence out and I call forth Rotom-A following the faint from my previous pokemon, it gives my opponent the impression that I am equipped with Choice Scarf and that I intend to revenge kill his Salamence. Instead, you Substitute on their switch, and play accordingly. You do have to be careful though and make sure that the opponent's pokemon is, in their mind, worth keeping because otherwise they'll simply attack.

I do enjoy bluffing Choice items. I used Colbur Berry Rotom-A and the opponent is fooled into believing it is Scarfed.

Scenario: My Rotom-A hits Tyranitar with Hidden Power Fighting on the switch. They then switch to their Rotom-A to evade the second Hidden Power Fighting; meanwhile, Sand Stream reveals that my Rotom-A recieved damage without recovering with Leftovers, so understandably he assumes Choice Scarf. His Rotom-A is then suddenly struck with a super effetive Shadow Ball. Bemused, the opponent is left to wonder what my item is. He then switches in Tyrantar to finish off my Rotom-A, which, to his great suprise, survives the Crunch due to Colbur Berry, and finishes off his TTar with Hidden Power Fighting.

Cool stuff.

 

[jc104]

You can see that in the above example, the item bluff allowed him 2 kills instead of one. Just for those of you who say it only ever grants one kill. It normally does only grant one, but the point is that you can use it to take away a key counter to your sweeper or threat to your team even when the opponent recognises it as being so.

 

[sanjay120]

I regularly use a CB Flygon and like to take advantage of people assuming it has Scarf. It's crazy how many don't notice the increased U-turn damage. Sometimes I'll switch it in on Latias or some other common Outrage-bait, then Fire Punch the incoming Steel. Twice I had someone think their Breloom could survive two EQs to Spore it.

 

[ZandgaiaX]

Why don't you use Grass Knot for the superior power against Swampert and Gyarados? I'm quite sure you can actually OHKO Swampert with that.

Ummm no it does about 80%, which I don't find that a difference, It'll 2ko anyway. And Energyball does more against some oppeonts like Rotom ^.^

 

[Mjolnir]

Bluffing is simply amazing. Makes or breaks some matches. I ran a SD tentacruel once, and would bring it in after hazards were placed on my side. They went to a spin blocker and I waterfall. More often than not i couldn't stay in and went to my pursuit abuser. Often netted me a KO. Leaving them with a significant loss of momentum.

Keeps the game fresh.

 

[The SPrinkLer]

I find a Bait Tyranitar one of the most effective bluff sets, due to the fact that Scizor is so common. Bluffs are less likely to work when you're trying to hit a particular Pokemon, but Scizor is on about one third of teams. BaitTar also has usages outside of luring in steel types like Skarmory and Scizor, making a great trapper of Latias and Rotom.

Another great lure is a Latias with Expert Belt, serving a similar role as BaitTar. Latias also lures in Tyranitar which they expect you to switch, so you can 2HKO it before you die (they'll most likely Pursuit). It's the same boat with Scizor, because HP Fire OHKOs less Specially defensive variants.

I really like Taylor's example, I never thought of that before.