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League of Legends: Let's Talk About uhhh??
- Thread starter Thorns
- Start date
Actually I heard it on the news announcement first... The pictures clearly depict Jax counterjungling Ryze.
I also build Trinity Force on him for tons of damage.
So recently I have been trying to expand my hero pool by trying out different characters.
I've gotten pretty good at Master Yi and Blitzcrank.
I spent my IP on Ashe and Tristana to try and get good at a ranged character but they didnt work out for me.
Any ideas on a good ranged character to try out?
I've gotten pretty good at Master Yi and Blitzcrank.
I spent my IP on Ashe and Tristana to try and get good at a ranged character but they didnt work out for me.
Any ideas on a good ranged character to try out?
Ashe is really a subpar AD Carry, and is really only useful for her never ending slow and her Ult.
I say focus on Trist as the carry to learn. Although I don't know what your having trouble with as you didn't specifically state much, I'll assume your having trouble with everything to do with AD carry.
Farming is probably the most important thing for an AD Carry. If you can't last hit then it will hurt your AD Carry greatly.
Farming is more important than getting fed. (Don't get this twisted, I will explain exactly what I mean)
In lower elos Last Hitting and Farming is forgone for harassing and attempting to get kills.
Melee minions are worth 23 Gold while Caster Minions are worth 16
Meaning each wave is worth 117 Gold. Effectively Every 3 Waves is worth more than Kill (351 Gold). This worth only creasing further throughout the game.
Assuming you get 200 CS by the end, further assuming its 1:1 ratio for Caster to Melee Minions its effectively (3900) Gold or the equivalent of 13 Kills.
I'm not saying don't attempt to get fed, or simply die to harass as you farm as an AD Carry. Getting kills is always good, but simply harassing and pushing your wave all day attempting to get kills if you end up getting killed by ganks or failing to actually secure a kill.
TL;DR Farm Farm Farm.
As for an AD carry, i suggest you learn Tris first, and once you've mastered her I suggest Graves/Vayne for your next carry, but only once you've learned and enjoyed your role as the AD Carry.
I'm bored of that "Ashe UP" bullshit, when will people understand that Ashe is an Utility carry (and not an AD carry), and that she is supposed to make less damage because she has a built-in 3s stun, a free CV and lot of slows instead of steroids ?
Well, if top Elo players do not pick Ashe, I guess she is bad ? =)
Not long ago, on this thread I said some "facts" about LoL, one of them was "Tryndamere is a strong solotop", people said I was wrong and that he had no sustain, 1month later, Tryndamere is "DA MOST OP SOLOTOP EVAR".
People only listen to tier lists and top ELO players, but anyone who ever played Pantheon mid or top will tell you how strong of a laner he is, anyone who ever played Warwick solotop will tell you how unkillable he is,...
Warwick for example, was played by some chinese teams during tournaments and had great success, same goes for Ezreal,...
Stop thinking OP or UP, no one is OP or UP, if it was the case, you would see the same 10 heroes every match (5 in blind pick), even more in tournaments.
Saying "whatever, this hero is OP" only makes you a bad player, it's all about counterpicking.
Well, if top Elo players do not pick Ashe, I guess she is bad ? =)
Not long ago, on this thread I said some "facts" about LoL, one of them was "Tryndamere is a strong solotop", people said I was wrong and that he had no sustain, 1month later, Tryndamere is "DA MOST OP SOLOTOP EVAR".
People only listen to tier lists and top ELO players, but anyone who ever played Pantheon mid or top will tell you how strong of a laner he is, anyone who ever played Warwick solotop will tell you how unkillable he is,...
Warwick for example, was played by some chinese teams during tournaments and had great success, same goes for Ezreal,...
Stop thinking OP or UP, no one is OP or UP, if it was the case, you would see the same 10 heroes every match (5 in blind pick), even more in tournaments.
Saying "whatever, this hero is OP" only makes you a bad player, it's all about counterpicking.
Of course not every character is OP and UP, but if you honestly think that all champions in a role are in the same level your ignorant. There are champions that are just better than others.
Yes Ashe has "potential" and shes certainly amazing when a team is built around here, but this is Solo Q, there are no professionals here, to make amazing teams using ok champions.
There's a reason why people listen to tiers and pro players, maybe because they know what they're doing because they do it for a living?
Tier List are there for a reason, to carry yourself in SoloQ where your teammates are most likely retarded. Not for 5v5s or even Duo Ques where there's someone who at least might know how to play champions. Stop using examples from TOURNMENTS. These are professionals who know their teammates and how to formulate a team. Theres a difference.
Started playing GP since he's free and he is way too strong (or I've been playing really bad players). The only "bad" game I had with him was where I derped hard during laning phase and ended up building tankier than I would have liked. At the end of the game I had 4.2k HP and got Atmas so I finally started doing damage.
Other games I either destroyed 1 v 1 or 2 v 1. 4 of the last 5 games I've been solo top I've had to 2 v 1 the lane. Kind of irritating, but I trust myself to handle a 2 v 1 better than my teammates and I'm fine with rushing Warmogs/Frozen Mallet.
Anyways, I'm almost level 27 now so I have kind of started thinking about ranked games. I plan on buying the 7 rune page bundle and buying a few champions before building a good chunk of rune pages. I want to have at least 3 champs I feel comfortable playing in each role before going into ranked, as well as good rune pages. So here is what I currently feel comfortable playing:
Solo Top: GP, Irelia, WW, Udyr, and maybe Rammus (haven't tried it but if need be I could)
Jungle: Rammus, WW, Udyr, Amumu
Support: Soraka, Sona, Taric (I may buy Janna and Alistar because they're cheap enough and learn them as well)
Ranged AD Carry: Corki (I own Tristana and Sivir, so I guess I should be learning them next)
AP Mid: The real reason I made this post. For some reason I don't feel comfortable playing any AP mid. I started with Annie for a while and did fine, and then as I got higher up in level I progressively started doing worse and one day I just stopped. I have tried Ryze for a few games and may try him again. Sion is probably the one I'm most comfortable with, although I feel so useless in team fights. Buddy of mine said I just need to pick better targets to stun/blow up on, so I may directly pay attention to my Sion positioning.
I have a sort of passive style of laning (mostly because I dedicated about 10 levels of leveling just to understand jungling better), so that's why I think I'm bad with Ryze. I might buy Morgana and Karthus and try them out, as I've heard they're both really passive laners and useful in team fights. Any suggestions on an AP mid/other champs I should pick up and try?
Other games I either destroyed 1 v 1 or 2 v 1. 4 of the last 5 games I've been solo top I've had to 2 v 1 the lane. Kind of irritating, but I trust myself to handle a 2 v 1 better than my teammates and I'm fine with rushing Warmogs/Frozen Mallet.
Anyways, I'm almost level 27 now so I have kind of started thinking about ranked games. I plan on buying the 7 rune page bundle and buying a few champions before building a good chunk of rune pages. I want to have at least 3 champs I feel comfortable playing in each role before going into ranked, as well as good rune pages. So here is what I currently feel comfortable playing:
Solo Top: GP, Irelia, WW, Udyr, and maybe Rammus (haven't tried it but if need be I could)
Jungle: Rammus, WW, Udyr, Amumu
Support: Soraka, Sona, Taric (I may buy Janna and Alistar because they're cheap enough and learn them as well)
Ranged AD Carry: Corki (I own Tristana and Sivir, so I guess I should be learning them next)
AP Mid: The real reason I made this post. For some reason I don't feel comfortable playing any AP mid. I started with Annie for a while and did fine, and then as I got higher up in level I progressively started doing worse and one day I just stopped. I have tried Ryze for a few games and may try him again. Sion is probably the one I'm most comfortable with, although I feel so useless in team fights. Buddy of mine said I just need to pick better targets to stun/blow up on, so I may directly pay attention to my Sion positioning.
I have a sort of passive style of laning (mostly because I dedicated about 10 levels of leveling just to understand jungling better), so that's why I think I'm bad with Ryze. I might buy Morgana and Karthus and try them out, as I've heard they're both really passive laners and useful in team fights. Any suggestions on an AP mid/other champs I should pick up and try?
Just so you know Rammus/Morgana are usually almost always banned in ranked play.
You should learn to play Ryze/Annie although they are different mages, they are cheap and rather good AP mids.
List of AP Mid (that I know/played)
AP mid is really about harassing while CSing and unlike bot or top you don't have the sustain unless you buy pots/WoTA. You really can't play Passive, very few people allow that as mid.
The best thing you can do to learn AP mid, is learn to start Boots/3 pots. Too many people think Doran's Ring is justified and will either aggressively harass missing most CS, or attempt to kill you and waste all mana (or in some rare cases waste mana to push lane way too fast).
Boots allow you to run away from most ganks early game, while Pots provide sustain that you need to stay in lane or survive those ignites.
Doran's are great items for better lane control afterwards (Not Initial Items), as in some AP Mids I like to go Boots Double Dorans items for decent Mana Regen while giving you some AP and Health.
Edit: Buy wards. AS mid you are going to get ganked every game (atleast you should) if you don't ward for yourself your only asking to get killed. Almost all AP Mids have some sort of Stun/Bind/Supress/Silence that will just mean your easy prey to junglers.
You should learn to play Ryze/Annie although they are different mages, they are cheap and rather good AP mids.
List of AP Mid (that I know/played)
Veigar - has insane burst but only useful if you can land his Stun perfectly which get some getting used to.
Morgana - all about farming with W all day only using Q to stop ganks, intiate, or go for a kill. Only thing is shes banned in most games if not you may not always get to pick her first.
Lux - has lots of utility with a great ult with low cd. Her passive is really nice early game but falls off outside of laning phase.
LeBlanc - insane burst. Veigar can burst you at lvl 6. She does it at 3. Shes an assassin that fucks with many AP mids. She has mana issues if you aren't careful, and isn't that useful in team fights unless you can 2 shot their squishies properly
Kassadin - Anti mage. Annoying. Nearly ungankable after 6. Also banned almost every game. (More than morgana)
Karthus - best DPS game but rather squishy. Wall makes for easy ganks, but honestly everyone just loves his Ult.
Xerath - Amazing. If you can properly land a skillshot his early combo is just annoying. His range is amazing in team fights meaning you can assasinate there squishes a screen away with your combo.
Brand - Scary in team fights. Tons of AoE damage, but if you can't land a combo during laning phase, then you're probably going to be worthless late game.
Ahri - Quite fun to play. Her range plus Taunt allows you to pick off champions even while they tower hug. She becomes ungankable at lvl 6. She kites all day with Rylai's and can poke all day. Not the greatest burst for an assasin though.
Fizz - annoying. Has the smalles range of a AP Mid, although not everyone puts him there. Weak laning phase, but late game has huge burst. More of a counterpick than a common Mid.
Morgana - all about farming with W all day only using Q to stop ganks, intiate, or go for a kill. Only thing is shes banned in most games if not you may not always get to pick her first.
Lux - has lots of utility with a great ult with low cd. Her passive is really nice early game but falls off outside of laning phase.
LeBlanc - insane burst. Veigar can burst you at lvl 6. She does it at 3. Shes an assassin that fucks with many AP mids. She has mana issues if you aren't careful, and isn't that useful in team fights unless you can 2 shot their squishies properly
Kassadin - Anti mage. Annoying. Nearly ungankable after 6. Also banned almost every game. (More than morgana)
Karthus - best DPS game but rather squishy. Wall makes for easy ganks, but honestly everyone just loves his Ult.
Xerath - Amazing. If you can properly land a skillshot his early combo is just annoying. His range is amazing in team fights meaning you can assasinate there squishes a screen away with your combo.
Brand - Scary in team fights. Tons of AoE damage, but if you can't land a combo during laning phase, then you're probably going to be worthless late game.
Ahri - Quite fun to play. Her range plus Taunt allows you to pick off champions even while they tower hug. She becomes ungankable at lvl 6. She kites all day with Rylai's and can poke all day. Not the greatest burst for an assasin though.
Fizz - annoying. Has the smalles range of a AP Mid, although not everyone puts him there. Weak laning phase, but late game has huge burst. More of a counterpick than a common Mid.
AP mid is really about harassing while CSing and unlike bot or top you don't have the sustain unless you buy pots/WoTA. You really can't play Passive, very few people allow that as mid.
The best thing you can do to learn AP mid, is learn to start Boots/3 pots. Too many people think Doran's Ring is justified and will either aggressively harass missing most CS, or attempt to kill you and waste all mana (or in some rare cases waste mana to push lane way too fast).
Boots allow you to run away from most ganks early game, while Pots provide sustain that you need to stay in lane or survive those ignites.
Doran's are great items for better lane control afterwards (Not Initial Items), as in some AP Mids I like to go Boots Double Dorans items for decent Mana Regen while giving you some AP and Health.
Edit: Buy wards. AS mid you are going to get ganked every game (atleast you should) if you don't ward for yourself your only asking to get killed. Almost all AP Mids have some sort of Stun/Bind/Supress/Silence that will just mean your easy prey to junglers.
Yeah I watch a lot of streams so I know most of that, but I definitely am a bit passive and that's probably one of my problems.
I think another problem is I miss CS if I don't use abilities, and I find myself going OOM if I do use abilities. And the reason I want to learn multiples of different champs is because I expect some of them to be picked/banned.
And I think I will spend some time learning Ryze and Annie until I have enough IP to buy Morgana and Karthus.
I think another problem is I miss CS if I don't use abilities, and I find myself going OOM if I do use abilities. And the reason I want to learn multiples of different champs is because I expect some of them to be picked/banned.
And I think I will spend some time learning Ryze and Annie until I have enough IP to buy Morgana and Karthus.
play cass. i always had the same problems with being passive and last hitting as an AP, but cass makes both of those easier. i would really suggest playing some games with her whenever she's free, if you're anything like me you will end up being better with her than any of the others there
Define what you call "better". How do you define that something is better than something different ? How do you define that having Vayne's true damage is better than having Ashe permaslow ? You could say some champions are better than other if their kit was exactly the same but with different numbers, which is not the case.
The reason some champions are picked more often is because they fit in the metagame better (Who needs Ashe when the support carry wards and CV and the tank has an AoE CC ?), people like them (Zilean is way more used in US teams than EU teams), or because they can caught unprepared noobs from soloqueue easily (Shaco, Rammus,...).
I don't talk about Soloqueue because as you said, everyone here is retarded. If you watch some pro streams, you will realize that FeedShotGG (yeah, that guy who does like 0/5/2 90% of his games right now) did 11/0/5 every game with AP Shaco when he climbed the ladder.
LoCicero carry his team every game with Pantheon mid at Top ELO,...
In soloqueue, it's not about OP or UP, it's about "noobstomping" abilities. If you watch Doublelift, one of the best mechanical players in the game, he still got stomped by mid Pantheon because he wasn't paying attention and overextended. ELO doesn't matter, people still get fed or feed at top ELO, so what happens here isn't relevant.
And Tier List's are bullshit because they're based on popularity more than strenght, if you look at Elementz Solo Tier list, Twitch is fucking rank 5. Twitch is like the king of noobstomping in Solo queue, with Shaco, and this isn't the only one.
You HAVE to be able to CS with auto attacks if you want to play this champion, it may take some time to adapt, but not being able to CS without ability means losing your lane most of the time.
You want to use your abilities to farm when : You need to push your lane to back/gank or put pressure on their tower (risky), your opponent is using his abilities too, you are taking some jungle creeps before going back to lane/your base.
i'm only really going to comment on how wrong this is:
ok uh
gp doesn't really get frozen mallet - the only reason to get mallet is the permaslow upgrade from Phage and gp already has a permaslow from his passive, otherwise it's just a bunch of hp and then like 20ad
gp (usually) goes wriggles->giants belt->finish warmog's or atma's->finish the one you didn't complete before and boots and some other items no one cares about
ok uh
gp doesn't really get frozen mallet - the only reason to get mallet is the permaslow upgrade from Phage and gp already has a permaslow from his passive, otherwise it's just a bunch of hp and then like 20ad
gp (usually) goes wriggles->giants belt->finish warmog's or atma's->finish the one you didn't complete before and boots and some other items no one cares about
regarding all the argument surrounding ashe: I got into a similar argument on facebook recently and this was basically the summarizing post:
"ashe is probably one of the best late-game carries just because of her slow which enables her to kite almost any melee DPS and chase effectively (especially once she gets phantom dancer). however, her lack of a steroid and a repositioning advice can be incredibly painful for her laning phase making her unable to lane effectively against the current popular laners such as graves, sivir, trist, etc.
in addition, the change to cleanse has made flash+cleanse much more popular on AD carries, basically nullifying any threat a random ashe arrow will have throughout the game. combine that with the hugely increasing popularity of QSS on AD carries and you have a carry that's still strong but just outdated."
"Better" can be defined by tournament play and how a champion holds up in lane. Arguably, it's hard to make a judgment call on whether Caitlyn is better than Vayne, but we can make certain hypotheses like "Kog'Maw typically loses to Caitlyn in lane" or "Sivir can only really be countered by Vayne or a good Graves player". From this we can build a generalization and say that "Sivir and Tristana are flavor of the month champions who are very powerful right now in the current metagame". Similarly, Ashe may be a great champion, but she's having a difficult time surviving in this Cleanse-heavy, Graves-popular meta.
Solo queue is definitely about noobstomping ability, but I wouldn't say that tier lists are bullshit. They're an accurate representation of what is and isn't popular in the current meta, which is generally an accurate representation of what's stronger than everything else currently. For example, Rammus is considered very strong right now in solo queue, but that may change in a few weeks if people learn to play around him. He'll drop on the tier list, but that doesn't mean that he became any better or worse, just that he's not as viable. Tier lists are about viability, not the inherent quality of the champion.
Always learn to last hit with autoattacks since you WILL run out of mana quickly early game if you keep last-hitting with abilities. In addition, you'll be pushing the lane. Once you get blue buff or a Tear, or if you're simply playing a push-heavy champion (morgana, cass, karthus), then you can start spamming abilities.
Elixir 6 pots is a waste, IMO. Most champions can get along fine starting cloth, regrowth, vamp scepter, boots, or doran's blade. Elixir is essentially a waste of 250 gold early game and you shouldn't be buying it unless you absolutely need it to jungle (which is highly unlikely in the new jungle).
So... being "better" but only against some champs ? That's counterpicking, not strenght. Caitlyn may counter a lot of AD Carries early, but her late is subpar. Kog'Maw may have the best range and one of the strongest steroid late game, he is weak in early.
Again, if the game was so imbalanced, you would see the same 10 heroes everymatch, so far, I've seen nearly every AD carry in the game in a tournament match, and nearly all champions too.
well for example in recent tournament matches, you've hardly ever seen miss fortune, ashe, twitch, teemo, or twisted fate used as an AD bot - this doesn't necessarily mean that they're bad champions, or even that they're bad bot lane champions, but just that it's difficult for them to survive in this current metagame as well as current top picks such as tristana or graves.
if we think back to dreamhack, nobody used tristana on the US servers. suddenly she's one of the strongest AD carries. FotM is brought about by changes in playstyle and also as a result of metagame shift, not always by some inherent buff or nerf to a champion.
I tried Ryze again in a custom game vs a bot and I was last hitting fine. Problem was I was derpy a few months ago.
I built that once when I was getting dominated in lane and my team had no one else to tank. Instead of calling me out, why not offer a build for that situation and not tell me (essentially) what I've already been building.
I don't plan to play LoL regularly or competitively ever again, but I did make a smurf account because I got bored. The name is "HughMyronbrough", and I usually just troll people with memes from the Bodybuilding Misc. If you want, add me and we can play a few games.
Also, I don't have the accounts "Rocketball" or "Priamos" anymore. The former was given up when I ragequit LoL. The latter was given to a friend of mine.
Also, I don't have the accounts "Rocketball" or "Priamos" anymore. The former was given up when I ragequit LoL. The latter was given to a friend of mine.
the problem with warmog's+mallet is that it makes you very tanky but you have no damage
going straight for a mallet then atma's, or warmog's then atma's, still makes you very tanky but also gives you a lot of damage. in addition the warmog's+atma's combo lets you go into triforce while still being extremely hard to kill simply because of how much health and armor you have
if your team doesn't have a full dedicated tank then it's more common to go the warmog's+atma's route into some magic resist as opposed to straight rushing triforce after those two items. alternatively, you could build GP10 early game on gangplank as opposed to going for an early wriggle's and transition into a tankier mid/late game.