League of Legends: Let's Talk About uhhh??

Yo sam how much would it have cost riot to just keep the west coast servers and separate west from east coast with the Chicago servers as well. As in, literally the same model they have for Europe. Trying to pass off a decision that directly causes local headaches to everyone except the minority that is the east coast and straight up isolates a region that is largely ignored as literally "unquestionable" is hilarious.

Also when'd you become a high-traffick networking specialist?
 
you realize that if they just divided the servers for NA like they do for EU that the playerbase of both would be incredibly small, small enough that the people on the servers would be like Oceania, where they would be unable to play certain modes due to the queue times (IIRC, oceania or LAN or something doesn't have modes like Dominion, and IIRC some servers don't have htings like Normal Draft). Like, yeah they could probably do with getting rid of one server to make an east and west servers, but (I can't find the link rn but I remember a redpost in an earlier thread about the networking from back when they teased it in like 2014) the playerbase would be seperated to a point where both populations would be about as small as LAS or something. Compare that to like EU where they have shittons of cities with shittons of people living in them. Meanwhile US has states where no one lives. Don't try to fool me, no one lives in Wyoming.

jokes aside, 2 US servers would split the US pop that play down to a small percentile of players, where some modes would be unplayable. This would basically be a downgrade, especially since ISPs factor into network routing as much as server location does, and you can have a server next door and still get 200 ping if your ISP is a fucking shitter (Comcast, AT&T, Time Warner)
 
reminder that dota 2 has this

4IGWmVz.jpg


riot is literally a billion dollar company, finances are not the issue. poor planning/a poor client/a poor user system tied to each individual server/region are probably obstacles in preventing a system like dota's, not saying it's impossible but at this point riot is unlikely to pursue a system like that. NAW/NAE is not really viable for the reasons listed above (small, split the population, queues would be longer, huge discrepancy in master/challenger, ranked goes down every night at 12 AM PST, etc.) (stats). cost for both servers is probably not even a slight issue, afaik they are keeping the west coast servers regardless as some sort of backup (but maybe they have bigger plans ???)
 
any users in the uk that play on na able to comment on their new ping?

i moved flat while they did the serverswitcheroo and won't have a router for a few more days, so i'm cyrious
 
az said:
any users in the uk that play on na able to comment on their new ping?

i moved flat while they did the serverswitcheroo and won't have a router for a few more days, so i'm cyrious
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I'm in The Netherlands and my new NA ping got even better.
 
sure, but i'm interested in how much by

i expect the number will go down for me, but if it's by ~10ms then honestly i'll never know how much of a difference it made bc i've moved and changed isp
 
az said:
any users in the uk that play on na able to comment on their new ping?

i moved flat while they did the serverswitcheroo and won't have a router for a few more days, so i'm cyrious
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the closer you are to the atlantic the more your ping should have improved (this is an extreme generalisation and definitely not linear even when true because of underwater routing, but should apply to us-uk).

impressed by how many economists and computer architecture experts we have in this thread, TIL opportunity cost = feasibility. i thought jeb was the only one who knew about networking in here and hes 14 lol

sam:

I'm also very tired of lazy excuses for Riot's inadequacy on this issue. The server move was a lazy solution to a problem they've been handwaving and vaguely promising to fix for years (while ignoring the problems on the European servers and the other regional servers too). Dota, HotS etc. all handle this much more elegantly.
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Also tbh I find it really patronising to be told it shouldn't be a concern for Riot because after years of spending money on this game I'm well aware they aren't interested in investing it in my region.
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no effort is put into maintaining the regional servers and there isn't a playerbase, which gets worse precisely because the regional servers have a history of neglect. The Oceania server being atrocious absolutely should be a concern for Riot, FYI they straight up admit its suboptimal in the transfer email which is nice at least.
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I did not intend for Harsha to become the target of my frustration but rather the prevailing attitude that geographic minorities don't know they aren't the minorities on NA (because we've been playing at 160-230 ping, depending on country, on NA for years without complaint
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everyone in geographic niches who is on the NA server knows they are not the intended demographic (except, you know, the actual americans fucked over by this, and the japanese, for whom the server is still Soon(TM) as it has been for years, sure hope their server is better than oceania's). we know because we play with stupid ping and made a tradeoff to play with that ping to get the vast benefits of playing on the NA server: superior playerbase, queue times, being able to play maps at any hour, being able to find games at any hour, not having to play with 3 bots per team in ARAM, access to friends, faster response to technical issues and player toxicity. why did we have to make this tradeoff? because our regional servers are fuckin trash and always have been and there's been zero effort or commitment to fixing this so we know they always will be regardless of whether the ones of us who remain transfer or not. weird insecurity from east coast players here to have to tell australians on the NA server that theyre not the intended audience, they have a little number in the loading screen measured in milliseconds that tells us every time we load up a game. its even colourcoded.

and i do play every few months for awhile on oceania where i get sub-30 and sometimes even sub-20 ping so you know. talking with exp. i have hour-long ARAM queue times except in peak hour. thats literally the mre problem

killah and thecrazyrussian and thevalkyries are all correct here btw. geographically splitting the US servers isnt viable like it is in europe. maintaining multiple geographically-based server farms in the USA to keep it as one region strikes me as perfectly doable, there is just no incentive from riot to do it since the server migration is a cheaper bandaid fix for most american players, just like all of riot's networking and client fixes (fyi i hope you guys don't ever cry about the replay system). the only concern is ping consistency but many players already play with that level of fluctuation and it would primarily correspond to time anyway. which is already true for most players.
 
jumpluff said:
the closer you are to the atlantic the more your ping should have improved (this is an extreme generalisation and definitely not linear even when true because of underwater routing, but should apply to us-uk).
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glasgow is right on the west coast of scotland (most glamorous west coast itt) so teeechnically it ought to be an improvement. i'm just concerned that if people are getting negligible improvements and i'm switching isp i won't know if i'm getting a good service or not

very selfish concerns!!

/pet alice
 
az said:
glasgow is right on the west coast of scotland (most glamorous west coast itt) so teeechnically it ought to be an improvement. i'm just concerned that if people are getting negligible improvements and i'm switching isp i won't know if i'm getting a good service or not

very selfish concerns!!

/pet alice
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im just east of edinburgh and my ping did not change with the server move at all. its incredibly frustrating to see and hear of people in sweden/germany getting 100-130 ping while im still sitting at a 190 ping average. the riot support ticket stuff only really asks questions about na related stuff (isp, state you live in) so i cant really ask them either. there isnt anywhere i can really get a riot response on such a thing besides making a reddit account and hoping the networking specialists somehow come across a random response to a post they made. the <30 ping on euw is calling to me but i dont feel like transferring - i'd probably regret it immediately.

shit sux
 
jumpluff said:
killah and thecrazyrussian and thevalkyries are all correct here btw. geographically splitting the US servers isnt viable like it is in europe. maintaining multiple geographically-based server farms in the USA to keep it as one region strikes me as perfectly doable, there is just no incentive from riot to do it since the server migration is a cheaper bandaid fix for most american players, just like all of riot's networking and client fixes (fyi i hope you guys don't ever cry about the replay system). the only concern is ping consistency but many players already play with that level of fluctuation and it would primarily correspond to time anyway. which is already true for most players.
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I've heard this argument made so many times and I am sick of it. No, ping consistency is not the concern for people trying to play on the East Coast on their own region's server. Ping quality is. Consistently getting 100+ ping is like consistently getting fucked in the ass: it doesn't matter if you start to 'get used to it', that doesn't make it any better. I'm sorry that Australians do not play as much as Americans do (thus why the Oceania server queue times are so long), but how is that Riot's fault?

You're right in that it is a relatively cheap fix. Yes Riot has issues to address with it's client (no replays and no sandbox makes Jack a sad boy) but if these were so simple to implement then they would've done it already.
TheValkyries said:
Yo sam how much would it have cost riot to just keep the west coast servers and separate west from east coast with the Chicago servers as well. As in, literally the same model they have for Europe. Trying to pass off a decision that directly causes local headaches to everyone except the minority that is the east coast and straight up isolates a region that is largely ignored as literally "unquestionable" is hilarious.

Also when'd you become a high-traffick networking specialist?
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The problem isn't keeping the server it's connecting them and allowing people to play on either, which, depending on how they set it up, would either increase EVERYONE'S ping by 20-30 or would cause the queue times in NA to be just as bad as they apparently are on the poorly-populated servers.

Secondly, neither is the east coast the 'minority' nor is this causing headaches to anyone. West coasters play with 50-60 ping, for 90% of the NA playerbase ping decreased massively. Go cry in a corner if you can't deal with 50-60 ping when most of the country has had it worse for years.

Finally the fact that you're referencing the Europe model as a good thing is highly questionable. I've literally not heard one good thing about the Europe model/servers. The only servers I've heard good things about are the Asian servers, which have the distinct advantage of having a much larger playerbase spread across a much smaller geographic region.
Killah said:
reminder that dota 2 has this

riot is literally a billion dollar company, finances are not the issue. poor planning/a poor client/a poor user system tied to each individual server/region are probably obstacles in preventing a system like dota's, not saying it's impossible but at this point riot is unlikely to pursue a system like that. NAW/NAE is not really viable for the reasons listed above (small, split the population, queues would be longer, huge discrepancy in master/challenger, ranked goes down every night at 12 AM PST, etc.) (stats). cost for both servers is probably not even a slight issue, afaik they are keeping the west coast servers regardless as some sort of backup (but maybe they have bigger plans ???)
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Valve is over three times as large as Riot and is willing/able to operate Dota 2 at a loss because it is not their main/flagship product. Hopefully Riot will give people the option to play on other servers with the same client worldwide, but, as you said, there needs to be one official 'NA' server for ranked purposes. And as far as location for that server goes, Chicago is about as good as anywhere to put it (maybe putting it a little further south, like in Saint Louis, would be better geographically but Chicago is an internet hub that St. Louis can't hope to compete with).
 
Sam you're talking about crying in corner lording over the fact that the east coast has gotten 30 less ping (I know this because I live on the east coast) meanwhile the west coast gained 40 and pretty much everyone who played this game that weren't American or in French Canada either had a net change of 0 or got fucked over by the move. Like buddy, I've ridden for riot for a lot of shit in my time as literally anyone can tell you, but this ain't one of those times.

But yes. You're right. The east coast players are superior in every tangible way to everyone who wanted to play this game from anywhere else. And those not blessed with the holy power of population density should all learn to deal with it. Good job riot, well done you fixed my personal problems therefore it was a decision made for the betterment of all.
 
"Fuck you, got mine" is never the right answer. The server move really could have been done better (especially as the west coast is not a "minority" by any means)

Also I am unsure under what metric the "Valve is three times as large as Riot" comment is. They're both billion dollar companies (apparently) and Valve has 300+ people whereas Riot has 1000+ (and under a tenth of those actually work on Dota full-time).

Also I'm not sure Valve knows what "operate at a loss" means because have you seen the fucking money they make from this game
 
Nayrz said:
im just east of edinburgh and my ping did not change with the server move at all. its incredibly frustrating to see and hear of people in sweden/germany getting 100-130 ping while im still sitting at a 190 ping average. the riot support ticket stuff only really asks questions about na related stuff (isp, state you live in) so i cant really ask them either. there isnt anywhere i can really get a riot response on such a thing besides making a reddit account and hoping the networking specialists somehow come across a random response to a post they made. the <30 ping on euw is calling to me but i dont feel like transferring - i'd probably regret it immediately.

shit sux
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oof, yeah that's pretty rough

well no sweat, i'm not holding my breath for a glorious ping drop. will report back on the ninth or so i suppose

i really ought to play more on euw though yeah; shedding like 150 ping feels like taking off the training weights

ty tho for the response!

TheValkyries said:
But yes. You're right. The east coast players are superior in every tangible way to everyone who wanted to play this game from anywhere else. And those not blessed with the holy power of population density should all learn to deal with it. Good job riot, well done you fixed my personal problems therefore it was a decision made for the betterment of all.
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keith
 
az said:
oof, yeah that's pretty rough

well no sweat, i'm not holding my breath for a glorious ping drop. will report back on the ninth or so i suppose

i really ought to play more on euw though yeah; shedding like 150 ping feels like taking off the training weights

ty tho for the response!



keith
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i've found a few other people on the boards that have this same issue and we all had the same isp (virgin media) so if you dont have that then you can expect a pretty large ping drop!
 
Nayrz said:
i've found a few other people on the boards that have this same issue and we all had the same isp (virgin media) so if you dont have that then you can expect a pretty large ping drop!
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ooh, neat; i was with virgin for years and am switching to sky so i'll let you know!
 
TheValkyries said:
Sam you're talking about crying in corner lording over the fact that the east coast has gotten 30 less ping (I know this because I live on the east coast) meanwhile the west coast gained 40 and pretty much everyone who played this game that weren't American or in French Canada either had a net change of 0 or got fucked over by the move. Like buddy, I've ridden for riot for a lot of shit in my time as literally anyone can tell you, but this ain't one of those times.

But yes. You're right. The east coast players are superior in every tangible way to everyone who wanted to play this game from anywhere else. And those not blessed with the holy power of population density should all learn to deal with it. Good job riot, well done you fixed my personal problems therefore it was a decision made for the betterment of all.
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The East Coast has ~50-60 less ping now, the Midwest has 50-60 less ping, the entire South has 20-50 less ping, the entire Mountain timezone stayed even. Literally only the West Coast (less than 25% of the playerbase) gained ~30-40 ping, so yes, this was a massive upgrade for the vast majority of players. The reason for the greater ping drop than rise is that the new ISP agreements Riot made has sped up service to everyone from what it would have been.

This is a really simple problem: if you took the sum total of all the latency of all NA players, you know full well that it would be far less (perhaps as little as half) of what it was prior to the server move. I'm also not sure who is 'dealing with it' because if West Coasters 'dealing with' 50-60 ping is what you're upset about then I really don't know what to say.
SgtWoodsy said:
"Fuck you, got mine" is never the right answer. The server move really could have been done better (especially as the west coast is not a "minority" by any means)

Also I am unsure under what metric the "Valve is three times as large as Riot" comment is. They're both billion dollar companies (apparently) and Valve has 300+ people whereas Riot has 1000+ (and under a tenth of those actually work on Dota full-time).

Also I'm not sure Valve knows what "operate at a loss" means because have you seen the fucking money they make from this game
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Who are you claiming said this? Because it wasn't me. And yes, the west coast is a minority, this is an indisputable fact.

Valve is worth about 2-3 times as much as Riot Games is (or at least was). This is pretty obviously what I meant when I said it was 3x the 'size' in terms of resources (although available resources are NOT linear with overall valuation). That being said this figure was based on the 'billion dollar' Riot games estimation which is probably a year or more old, so lets say that Valve is merely 1.5-2 times as large now.

Finally, Valve has purposefully not revealed how much Dota 2 makes to the public, so no, I have not seen the fucking money they make from this game and neither have you.
 
the server change was good for everyone. 40 > 65 is what I went to living in LA and the game honestly feels the same. i used to have like 18 ping but that was back in like season 2

can we change the topic now jesus
 
the only other thing we could discuss is whining about the new juggernaut meta tbh

FUCK Darius, FUCK Garen, FUCK Skarner, FUCK Morde ADC, FUCK Fiora, and holy shit I can't for all these fucking Project Yi players to come in and farm the jungle for 30 minutes before attempting to 1v5 the enemy team or something

in other news I haven't played ranked in like three weeks because I hate this meta and want it to burn, but I also want to see how far I can climb before I peak so I can set a realistic goal for next season
 
Just gone on a huge fuckin tilting spree that's took me from Gold 3 to Gold 5. Seriously, I get all the way up here from mid Bronze, and I can't break this fuckin elo. I dont get it man, I do everything right... I farm like I've just snorted a fat line of speed, I'm always on top of fuckin objectives, I know my champ pool inside out, its not even my fuckin teammates. Something just isnt working, I dont know what... I want my shiny plat border, and more importantly, I cant have fun with the game any more unless I win...

Someone please help me out, what do I pick to climb that won't get banned (in terms of roles, im a literal jack of all trades). What do i do to win? What's your fuckin secret, high elo players...
 
Triangles said:
Just gone on a huge fuckin tilting spree that's took me from Gold 3 to Gold 5. Seriously, I get all the way up here from mid Bronze, and I can't break this fuckin elo. I dont get it man, I do everything right... I farm like I've just snorted a fat line of speed, I'm always on top of fuckin objectives, I know my champ pool inside out, its not even my fuckin teammates. Something just isnt working, I dont know what... I want my shiny plat border, and more importantly, I cant have fun with the game any more unless I win...

Someone please help me out, what do I pick to climb that won't get banned (in terms of roles, im a literal jack of all trades). What do i do to win? What's your fuckin secret, high elo players...
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Ever thought about you might be in the division you belong?
 
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