League of Legends: Let's Talk About uhhh??

[Jebus McAzn]

tad, you seem to misunderstand how it works. Rengar doesn't just 'get' ~4k worth of gold, lol.

okay i didn't explain it very well and tbh i didn't understand it very well back then either:

once rengar and kha'zix hit level 16, they both gain a passive which states that they have to hunt the other one. if kha'zix dies while under this passive while rengar also has 14 stacks on his bonetooth necklace, the item is replaced with head of kha'zix which makes the stacks permanent

meanwhile if rengar dies, kha'zix gains a fourth evolution point.

 

[theamericandream38]

okay i didn't explain it very well and tbh i didn't understand it very well back then either:

once rengar and kha'zix hit level 16, they both gain a passive which states that they have to hunt the other one. if kha'zix dies while under this passive while rengar also has 14 stacks on his bonetooth necklace, the item is replaced with head of kha'zix which makes the stacks permanent

meanwhile if rengar dies, kha'zix gains a fourth evolution point.

Okay so only kha'zix can gain an absurd bonus then? so there's no reason to ever pick rengar if kha'zix is unbanned and they still have a pick left? Assuming the bolded part is true, SD please confirm (I and everyone else was originally told that it moved you from however many stacks you had to 14 automatically and that the stacks then became permanent, thus enabling a 0-14 jump).

 

[Ampharos]

The thing is Rengar requires 14 stacks for the bonus to activate, meaning he's probably fed as hell at this point and won't be losing to Kha'zix. Yes, Kha'zix has a better reward, but he's also less likely to win.

 

[The Requiem]

I still dont know how I feel about any of that. Even if they have to wait until lategame to have their little hunting contest, their hidden passive does a whole hell of a lot more than any other champs hidden passives.

I'm kinda reserving judgement until Kha'zix releases. Not like any of this isn't tentative up until that point. (or even after)

 

[Jebus McAzn]

The thing is Rengar requires 14 stacks for the bonus to activate, meaning he's probably fed as hell at this point and won't be losing to Kha'zix. Yes, Kha'zix has a better reward, but he's also less likely to win.

This also means that Kha'zix's reward is a hell of a lot easier to get in an even matchup; assuming Rengar is on even terms with Kha'zix, he probably doesn't have 14 stacks while Kha'zix only has to have his team kill Rengar to get that fourth evolution point.

Idk, it could all be speculation and they might change it for public release. I'm not positive about any of the info that's been released so far so take it with a grain of salt.

 

[Ampharos]

he probably doesn't have 14 stacks

Neither of them can get the bonus unless rengar is at 14 stacks.

 

[Mr.Pooh31]

regarding the Kha'Zix/Rengar thing
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2608972
read that thread

 

[Jebus McAzn]

Neither of them can get the bonus unless rengar is at 14 stacks.

oh ballin'

 

[theamericandream38]

regarding the Kha'Zix/Rengar thing
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2608972
read that thread

and? Phreak says it right there, the decision isn't made with balance in mind, it's made for "fun". Some of us, although we aren't very good at league (or other games but that is besides the point), have "fun" playing a balanced game where retarded things like this are left out.

If the part about neither can get it unless rengar has 14 stacks is true, then it basically makes the situation impossible to occur in a competitive game but in my opinion it still should not exist on the very principle that it imbalances the game and makes me want to pick a certain champion over another for reasons other than "this champion fits what I want to do in this situation better than the other champion".

 

[Kinneas]

Maybe you should play a game where it happens and then complain about how unbalanced it is. I bet you barely even notice. Stop making mountains out of molehills.

 

[StrangerDanger]

i don't want to go too far on this (and this is personally the risk i take when i maintain an online persona anywhere but the riot forums due to being an employee) but i am pretty convinced that everyone is overrating the balance implications this has. Rengar can't just purchase a BN and kill/assist KZ to get it - because by not meeting his own qualified state, the event wouldn't even occur. This is a never-before seen interaction for our game - and if it truly is 'gamebreaking' (an extremely alarmist view in my eyes) we can always remove it - but we can't always put stuff like this in. Would you rather us never try new things, or be able to deliver on expanding an experience outside of our box?

this is my opinion and not representative of others/riot, but i also concepted the interaction in the first place. I think it's fine, and you think it's not. One of us has played with it.

i won't speak on this again for personal reasons

 

[Yeti]

do you just want something to whine about with regards to a new champion or what here lol

if you can't call kha'zix OP ZYRA TIER RIOT JUST WANTS MONEY or UP SYNDRA TRASH TIER PBE TOLD RIOT SHE SUCKED it's another thing to complain about

 

[jumpluff]

Maybe by thinking of it as a 'hidden passive' -- like Leona's Sunlight or the ninja passives or Nidalee's cougar thing -- we're thinking about it the wrong way and letting those perceptions cloud our view of something that is entirely different to the game, which is why people are bothered by the perceived power level, because they're comparing it to the traditional hidden passives, which have no real measurable impact generally.

I don't think the balance implications are a huge deal, since if Rengar has 14 stacks I would be very impressed if Kha'Zix was able to kill him easily, and Bonetooth Necklace is a snowball item. It's unlikely to occur in an even game and sway things too far.

Sounds fun to me.

 

[TheValkyries]

Coronach posted on the forums how the interaction more or less gives KZ a come back mechanic against a fed Rengar. Which isn't really all that negative in terms of balance.

One could argue then that "If Rengar is already fed why is he getting a reward if he wins?" Problem is that he is getting the short end of the deal. You only lose 1 stack on death and gain a stack for a kill or assist, and if you go 1 Kill or Assist to 1 death the entire game, you'll hover around 13 to 14 stacks regardless, so it's not giving you much. You may say that there is a difference between 13 stacks and 14 stacks on Bonetooth, but the difference is 3 seconds longer invisibility and MS while ulting. While that is cool, it's not critical nor game breaking to have all the time.

It's really no big deal. Extremists are gonna be extreme.

 

[Mr.E]

The 14-stack bonus is probably the worst one Rengar gets on Bonetooth Necklace. ;/ Honestly I don't think it's an item you keep in a 60-minute build in the rare occasion you get in one of those super-long games where everyone is fully endgame itemize either. Kha'Zix is the one that makes out in this because that fourth evolution point is most definitely, absolutely always useful.

Argh I have so many questions but I may as well hold onto those for IRC or something because they aren't really important to anyone else. Support KZ let's get it. 8) Void Spike seems really strong with Unseen Threat, hit 6 and make Lulu's poke look like butt, Sona is tiny baby, and Lux is WIMPY LOSER.

 

[New World Order]

I love interactions like this. Makes draft games so much more interesting since it gives incentive for certain matchups. The enemy picked Rengar? You take Kha'Zix, and vice versa. In fact, I think they should do something like this between Voli/Zilean, Kat/Garen etc. You can pick a top laner who does well against the opposing mid laner, rather than just "must counter my lane every time".

 

[Yeti]

o
m
gggggggggggggg

 

[TheValkyries]

A friend and I talked about the Rengar-Kha'Zix interaction last night, and we decided it's the first time we can think of where we have a clearly defined active Gambit in Legal Legends. Before, in picks and bans, we would see a champ get picked and our options were "Ignore it, and run our own strat" or "Counter that Champion". If this interaction pulls off, we could start seeing a third option of "Play the Gambit", and have an active "risk for reward" strategy.

 

[fairytale]

this "2 of 3 ad carries in every game" thing has gotten out of hand

 

[Jebus McAzn]

they tried to fix it too but it didn't really do anything

graves/corki/ez all day erry day

 

[Wikey]

I wish Ez was still considered terrible and so stupid people played him AP Mid and shit. Sick of people calling ADC but what they really mean is they want to play Ez and they don't know how to last hit. I got stuck supporting an Ez who pushed the lane to their tower in like 20 seconds and then complained all game, "LEONA CAN YOU ZONE THEM OUT OR SOMETHING! CAN YOU LAND ONE GOOD GRAB?" Sure, let me cast my E on that enemy standing under tower who has 40 more CS than you.

Anyone else think the scheduling for S2 finals sucks? I don't see how it would be beneficial to any time zone to have the big long round robin day be on a Thursday. And then the finals a week later? Just seems dumb.

 

[Thorns]

A friend and I talked about the Rengar-Kha'Zix interaction last night, and we decided it's the first time we can think of where we have a clearly defined active Gambit in Legal Legends. Before, in picks and bans, we would see a champ get picked and our options were "Ignore it, and run our own strat" or "Counter that Champion". If this interaction pulls off, we could start seeing a third option of "Play the Gambit", and have an active "risk for reward" strategy.

did you then decide it's probably time to go out and meet some women

 

[Jebus McAzn]

 

[Ampharos]

they tried to fix it too but it didn't really do anything

graves/corki/ez all day erry day

The problem is that unlike all other ad carries, Graves Corki and Ez don't really have any glaring weaknesses. MF and Cait fall off compared to other carries after lane phase, Sivir and Twitch have shit range, Kog and Vayne have shit lane phases, Kog, Sivir, and Varus have no escapes, Trist has to go curl up in a ball in the corner if she wants to survive midgame, Ashe is more of a utility carry than a melt-the-entire-enemy-team carry, Draven is ridiculously hard to deal maximum theoretical damage with while still positioning well, Urgot isn't an AD carry...

Ez, Graves, and Corki are strong in all 3 phases of the game, all have good mobility, all have good poke and strong burst, and are even less squishy than other carries to boot (granted, Ez and Corki have to build an early triforce to achieve this, but triforce is amazing on both of them). It's not even something that buffs or nerfs can do much to - it's really more of a kit and concept-related thing. Unless every single AD Carry get's a rework in the future, or we get some sort of huge meta shift, I think those 3 are going to stay relevant for quite a while.

i'm done rambling about champs that i don't play now

 

[Jebus McAzn]

i main ADC and that's all pretty much right

they're just popular though because they have everything and at most ELOs, they're just better than pretty much any other pick. ashe/vayne/kog'maw take a lot more skill to play, but they definitely offer just as much

draven and mf have a lot of potential too

nobody plays varus/sivir though ;=;