Linked

Hack_Guy I'd like to see a decision made on Protect, Flinch, and Talonflame as quickly as possible. This metagame's popularity and ladder is temporary and I'd err on the side of bans for the sake of keeping it as enjoyable as possible for the most amount of time.
Right, been postponing the decision because my IRL has been a bit busy u.u
But on the subject of Protect/Flinch/Talon

Protect moves in a link: Banned (Even if protect is unreliable, it gives your pokemon turns to do extra damage while the opponent is helpless)
Razor Claw/King's Rock: Banned (Uncompetitive, completly RNG based)
Talonflame: Not Banned (it helps keep the meta in check, otherwise things like faketurn would be everywhere, can be dealt with by megaBro/Rock types/Magnezone)

Tagging Slayer95 to impliment the new bans n.n
 
Ok Garchomp in B rank? What? Garchomp is an easy A+ rank pokemon imo because it is the best counter in the game to talonflame and physical attackers in general thanks to its physical bulk and the rocky helmet rough skin combination. Practically every team on the ladder is using it to counter talonflame, because it can literally switch in and kill it passively. Here is a replay showing how good it is at turn 11:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/linked-237654895
also no1 yay
 
I've got some nominations:

Garchomp from B to A+
Rocky Helmet Garchomp with Rough Skin works better than Ferrothorn just because of Endure, which works against linked moves. Unlike Ferrothorn, it has an offensive precense and can phaze your opponent. When I created the viability rankings, no one abused Garchomp's Rough Skin and Endure yet.

Quagsire from A- to A+
It has a nice defensive typing of only one weakness. It can run Curse and Stockpile set with Unaware. Even though it lacks Stored Power, it can annoy opponent by burning it with Scald. I think it's almost as good as Clefable.

Cinccino from B+ to C.
Because King's Rock/Razor Claw got banned, this thing won't be as good.
 
I've got some nominations:

Garchomp from B to A+
Rocky Helmet Garchomp with Rough Skin works better than Ferrothorn just because of Endure, which works against linked moves. Unlike Ferrothorn, it has an offensive precense and can phaze your opponent. When I created the viability rankings, no one abused Garchomp's Rough Skin and Endure yet.

Quagsire from A- to A+
It has a nice defensive typing of only one weakness. It can run Curse and Stockpile set with Unaware. Even though it lacks Stored Power, it can annoy opponent by burning it with Scald. I think it's almost as good as Clefable.

Cinccino from B+ to C.
Because King's Rock/Razor Claw got banned, this thing won't be as good.
I agree with Garchomp's movement to A+, but I think Cinccino is no longer a viable pokemon now that it is unable to flinch and consecutively kill. Cinccino can't really do any damage without being killed, since it is so fragile.
 
I've been looking at some replays on linked so i can get to know the meta better and stuff, and i came across some really cancerous stuff.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/linked-237591077
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/linked-237590905

Two turn moves such as fly and dive work in a similar way to protect, and i think they are completely broken. What do you guys think of these?
Threats that can abuse this include Landorus-T, Talonflame, Dragonite, and really, any threat that can learn a 2-turn move.
 
Two turn moves shouldn't able to Link imo. It makes no sense at all that a Pokemon can attack while in the middle of Fly/Shadow Force/etc.

Also, I'm curious as to why Aegislash is unbanned. It's arguably better than it was in OU.
 
Yeah. Two turn moves shouldn't be able to link. How the hell you can punch someone when you're flying/in water while your opponent are not? Make the other move fail when you're flying/diving/digging.
 
RIP our beloved Spiky Shield + Sucker Punch Cacturne, we will not forget this injustice.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/linked-237380949
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/linked-237354638
It appears that I didn't save the replays where you truly shined but they will live forever in my heart <3

EDIT: Is it just Protect + Attack that is banned? Because I've seen Prankster users like Klefki running Protect + Sunny Day making weather teams far more viable and adding diversity to the meta. It would be a shame to see that go.
 
RIP our beloved Spiky Shield + Sucker Punch Cacturne, we will not forget this injustice.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/linked-237380949
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/linked-237354638
It appears that I didn't save the replays where you truly shined but they will live forever in my heart <3

EDIT: Is it just Protect + Attack that is banned? Because I've seen Prankster users like Klefki running Protect + Sunny Day making weather teams far more viable and adding diversity to the meta. It would be a shame to see that go.
A lot of mons get Swords Dance + Protect..
 
RIP our beloved Spiky Shield + Sucker Punch Cacturne, we will not forget this injustice.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/linked-237380949
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/linked-237354638
It appears that I didn't save the replays where you truly shined but they will live forever in my heart <3

EDIT: Is it just Protect + Attack that is banned? Because I've seen Prankster users like Klefki running Protect + Sunny Day making weather teams far more viable and adding diversity to the meta. It would be a shame to see that go.
Protecting moves in general is banned from linking. It's just isn't updated yet.

Also I'm asking for change in mechanic in moves like Fly/Dig/Dive/Phantom Force. Move should fail when you're flying/diving/digging. You shouldn't be able to hit your opponent that are not in front of you.
 
A lot of mons get Swords Dance + Protect..
That isn't good though.
Given that in order to not get revenge killed by scarfers, you yourself would need to be scarfed and that wouldn't work. Also however getting a free SD, you give your opponent a free SD as well, or SD + RP.
This whole free turn concept that got Protect links banned is simply false.
 
I would also like to point out something similar to Protect + Attack.

Endure + Extremespeed. Main abusers would be Lucario and Arcanine.
 
That isn't good though.
Given that in order to not get revenge killed by scarfers, you yourself would need to be scarfed and that wouldn't work. Also however getting a free SD, you give your opponent a free SD as well, or SD + RP.
This whole free turn concept that got Protect links banned is simply false.
Or you could Dragon Dance/Quiver Dance/Geomancy with Protect. Volcarona would be pretty hard to stop outside of Heatran, Talon and Clefable I guess.
 
Aegis was unbanned because King's Shield helps check a lot of the meta, especially the physical attackers like jirachi/talonflame which run rampant
This argument was brought forward ever time but its honestly not true.
When you evaluate a pokemon you have to evaluate a plethora of different key factors attributed to said pokemon. Aegislash is a pokemon that is difficult to deem directly broken. In OU its not too powerful, it's has a lot of power behind it but not enough to be seen as overwhelming. It's defensive but lacks recovery, but thats generally a diminished argument as it has a fantastic offensive and defensive typing. It has no counters, no pokemon can deal with all of its sets.

But that is OU. In Linked Aegislash is exponentially better. King shield + Protect was banned, reasoning could be seen above. However, it can still use King shield, and that alone is uncompetitive. Having King Shield makes physical attacks severly less viable. And it's almost always in Aegislash's favour. You either risk getting minus two attack or you're leaving yourself voulnerable by going for a status move too two stab 252 Modest attacks, or unresisted coverage hitting hard on both sides in Sacred sword + Shadow sneak. It still has immense bulk and with all the physicals attacks running around you can drop too 25% attack.

You can, of course, boost while attacking an hilariously broken aspect of this metagame, but it boosts Aegislashes power and prescence to astronomical levels.

Not only that but its bulk, power and typing allow it to effectively diminish fighting, bug, grass, ice, rock, steel, normal and flying types. Just by allowing Aegislash into the metagame you effetively discourage any opponent and yourself from running these types, for coverage or stab.

Now Talonflame. Talonflame is one of those pokemon that's good in most metagames. Its unique ability allows it to work effectively in any metagame(most). In Linked its no exception. Linking Brave bird + Aerial ace essentially gives Talonflame Parentsl Bond priority stab... Wow. That's breath taking. For comparisant the only Bug types that live banded Parental bond Brave bird is Shuckle and Bulky Mega Scizor. I think, I only calced those and Shuckle take 70-80%.

Isn't that awful? If Aegislash + Talonflame stay in the metagame all Bug types are diminished in their viability. I have yet to calculate fighting and grass types, but if I were to go out on a limb im going to say very, very few would live a hit.

But that's not it. Team building for offence is neigh impossible without adding Aeigslash, Clefable, Talonflame and Manaphy. Though Manaphy & Clefable is easier to handle. You're so limited and there's next too no reason not to run these pokemon.

They also restricts what you can use, like Fusion x2 Victini and Felt stinger Beedrill, both innovative and creative sets. I'd love to see the real potential Linked has, 2x Victini is one of the coolest pokemon in linked imo imo.

That's all for now
 
This argument was brought forward ever time but its honestly not true.
When you evaluate a pokemon you have to evaluate a plethora of different key factors attributed to said pokemon. Aegislash is a pokemon that is difficult to deem directly broken. In OU its not too powerful, it's has a lot of power behind it but not enough to be seen as overwhelming. It's defensive but lacks recovery, but thats generally a diminished argument as it has a fantastic offensive and defensive typing. It has no counters, no pokemon can deal with all of its sets.

But that is OU. In Linked Aegislash is exponentially better. King shield + Protect was banned, reasoning could be seen above. However, it can still use King shield, and that alone is uncompetitive. Having King Shield makes physical attacks severly less viable. And it's almost always in Aegislash's favour. You either risk getting minus two attack or you're leaving yourself voulnerable by going for a status move too two stab 252 Modest attacks, or unresisted coverage hitting hard on both sides in Sacred sword + Shadow sneak. It still has immense bulk and with all the physicals attacks running around you can drop too 25% attack.

You can, of course, boost while attacking an hilariously broken aspect of this metagame, but it boosts Aegislashes power and prescence to astronomical levels.

Not only that but its bulk, power and typing allow it to effectively diminish fighting, bug, grass, ice, rock, steel, normal and flying types. Just by allowing Aegislash into the metagame you effetively discourage any opponent and yourself from running these types, for coverage or stab.

Now Talonflame. Talonflame is one of those pokemon that's good in most metagames. Its unique ability allows it to work effectively in any metagame(most). In Linked its no exception. Linking Brave bird + Aerial ace essentially gives Talonflame Parentsl Bond priority stab... Wow. That's breath taking. For comparisant the only Bug types that live banded Parental bond Brave bird is Shuckle and Bulky Mega Scizor. I think, I only calced those and Shuckle take 70-80%.

Isn't that awful? If Aegislash + Talonflame stay in the metagame all Bug types are diminished in their viability. I have yet to calculate fighting and grass types, but if I were to go out on a limb im going to say very, very few would live a hit.

But that's not it. Team building for offence is neigh impossible without adding Aeigslash, Clefable, Talonflame and Manaphy. Though Manaphy & Clefable is easier to handle. You're so limited and there's next too no reason not to run these pokemon.

They also restricts what you can use, like Fusion x2 Victini and Felt stinger Beedrill, both innovative and creative sets. I'd love to see the real potential Linked has, 2x Victini is one of the coolest pokemon in linked imo imo.

That's all for now
I'm inclined to agree on Aegislash. It's just silly here, and frankly, we don't need it to check physical attackers like we thought we would. Garchomp, Ferro, and just plain outspeeding shit does the job.

As for Talonflame, you neglected to highlight that what makes it broken is actually the fact that this massive STAB comes at priority. Everything and its mom gets a second STAB move at ~0.5 BP that lets it KO most things it's SE against. With Tflame, what makes things vulnerable to it less viable is that it does this with almost no risk of being taken out first. It's not more powerful than the rest of the meta, it just gets to ignore how the rest of the meta changed. The more I think about it, the more I wouldn't mind seeing it banned. Other priority exists.

There's another thing I want to highlight: Banded Smack Down + Earthquake Landorus-T. Destroys most of what I can think of -- going second against it is risky for everything except, like, Chesnaught, and it can always drop a U-Turn on the switch. I won't call for a ban, but what are people using to stop this monster?
 
Can the OP please edit the front page so we can easily see everything that is broken? It doesn't say that King's Rock is broken, for example, yet it is banned according to Showdown.
 

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