Honestly I hate doing the battles in the series that are dependent on RNG to be challenging.
Juan, Platinum Candice, Whitney, don't like em. Not a bit.
Juan, Platinum Candice, Whitney, don't like em. Not a bit.
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(Little) Things that annoy you in Pokémon
- Thread starter BriarRose
- Start date
Battles should be skill based, not luck based. (Or grinding based for that matter.)
I don't live in Canada so I can't respond to this one.
I assume you only mean the original Hoenn games? Wattson is indeed part of the reason people see Mudkip as the best starter in the game...
I suppose you could try Hariyama. That special defense along with Magneton's weakness to Fighting should serve you well.
I mean, RNG isn't good design to begin with because it comes down to dumb luck. The only reason it exists was to simulate dice rolls from the old pen and paper D&D because that was the RPG to be ripping off back in the day, and it's kind of only now when the consumers are catching on about RNG being Tauros shit. Developers, on the other hand...
Though, this issue kind of only applies to RSE. In ORAS, the Mauville PokeMart does have Bulldoze on sale, which is a pretty widely learned TM as is. I have to wonder if that was a conscious design choice since Game Freak realised their mistake from before.
The funny thing about this was that I was just facing and complaining about this problem the last Emerald game I played with a Treecko! I really did have to backtrack all the way back to the Granite Cave to get a Geodude to beat the Gym because of all the freaking Magnemites. I wouldn't have been so salty if I was planning on using a Geodude anyways, but I didn't want to, so that was basically a wasted Gym. At least Combusken stands a chance with Fire STAB, while Breloom has Mach Punch and an Electric resistance to take down the Gym with.
Though, this issue kind of only applies to RSE. In ORAS, the Mauville PokeMart does have Bulldoze on sale, which is a pretty widely learned TM as is. I have to wonder if that was a conscious design choice since Game Freak realised their mistake from before.
Related, but I was going to complain about how Wattson's mons only have three moves. Then I realized that, based on their levels, the most likely fourth move to have would be Sonic Boom. Which would 2HKO even a competently-leveled Marshtomp. (The Voltorb would have Screech.)
Would that be challenging or just cheap? I'm conflicted.
Would that be challenging or just cheap? I'm conflicted.
That would be RSE
Misdreavous?
With a mere 85 Special Attack and Speed, Misdreavous was WAAAAY weaker than Haunter (115 and 95). Heck, it's weaker than Gastly (100 and 80)!
Might have been an interesting first pokemon just to mix it up, but Gamefreak still in a corner. Gengar really was the only option for a signature 'mon.
At the time Gengar wasn't too bad to fight, as it relied on Shadow Ball for it's attack but was running off a mere 65 Attack (since Ghost moves are physical before Gen 4). So the real fight was the Mean Look, Hypnosis, Dream Eater combo, making it annoying but fair (as healing status isn't too hard with items, and it will lose it's turn trying to eat your dream). It's in HGSS that it got slightly out of hand (although any normal type can wall it, and most carry a dark attack).
Might have been an interesting first pokemon just to mix it up, but Gamefreak still in a corner. Gengar really was the only option for a signature 'mon.
At the time Gengar wasn't too bad to fight, as it relied on Shadow Ball for it's attack but was running off a mere 65 Attack (since Ghost moves are physical before Gen 4). So the real fight was the Mean Look, Hypnosis, Dream Eater combo, making it annoying but fair (as healing status isn't too hard with items, and it will lose it's turn trying to eat your dream). It's in HGSS that it got slightly out of hand (although any normal type can wall it, and most carry a dark attack).
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That's what Psywave and Pain Split are for, a bulky challenge instead of an offensive one (a 130 Special, 110 Speed, has been OU for six generations threat)
Bulky how? Gengar's got 60/60/75 bulk stats to Misdreavus' 60/60/85. That 10 points in SpDef isn't really wowing me.
And the original Morty was employing more tricksy tactics than all out offense, as again his Gengar had Hypnosis, Mean Look, and Dream Eater with a weak Shadow Ball on 65 Attack. So besides novelty, I'm not really seeing what Misdreavus is bringing to the table here.
Sure, maybe drop Morty's Gastly or second Haunter just for originality but I wouldn't take Gengar's spot.
If you really struggled with Morty, a Raticate freshly caught in the Burnt Tower will decimate him. Maybe it's not fair to rely on one specific counter for a boss, but it's the defense of the "Whiteny isn't hard, used the trade Machop!" crowd.
Yes in HGSS Morty's Gengar went from manageable challenge to "wait, how is this fair?!" but if they had dropped it for Misdreavus in the remake we all know EXACTLY what the fans would say:
And the original Morty was employing more tricksy tactics than all out offense, as again his Gengar had Hypnosis, Mean Look, and Dream Eater with a weak Shadow Ball on 65 Attack. So besides novelty, I'm not really seeing what Misdreavus is bringing to the table here.
Sure, maybe drop Morty's Gastly or second Haunter just for originality but I wouldn't take Gengar's spot.
If you really struggled with Morty, a Raticate freshly caught in the Burnt Tower will decimate him. Maybe it's not fair to rely on one specific counter for a boss, but it's the defense of the "Whiteny isn't hard, used the trade Machop!" crowd.
Yes in HGSS Morty's Gengar went from manageable challenge to "wait, how is this fair?!" but if they had dropped it for Misdreavus in the remake we all know EXACTLY what the fans would say:
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I mean considering that none of Gastly or either Haunter had a special move, Misdreavus' better Attack and bulk would have made it somewhat more difficult to take on than the Haunter or Gastly.
There are other counters. An underleveled Girafarig from the routes to the east can solo the whole gym pretty easily (despite Sucker Punch) in HGSS.
It really baffles me that people want harder games and then complain about this stuff. None of those battles are that hard or unfair. Clair's Kingdra I can see taking issue with just because of how critical hits used to work, but it's still manageable.
Yes, the AI using better strategy is the best way to create "real" difficulty and that's a main thing the games should be trying to improve, but the stuff in these battles can offer legitimate difficulty too. And even levels, etc., don't really make for "artificial difficulty." That's a huge part of what the games are. Given how the games work, that's a valid source of difficulty.
They weren't painted into a corner at all in Gen 2 -- Misdreavus was a Pokémon that hadn't been introduced yet, so there was nothing stopping them from changing its stats to better fit the gym.
Or at least have a single misdreavus appear in the gym- If I remember correctly, all of the trainers only use the ghastly line. It’s as if they forgot the other ghost type even existed.
I think it's worth mentioning that Misdreavus' type is at least better than that of the Ghastly line. Pure Ghost is only weak to Dark and Ghost itself, all the poison type really adds to that is a resistance to grass, one of the weaker offensive types, at the cost of a weakness to Ground (before Levitate happened) and Psychic, two of the best offensive types.
I assume this was done on purpose to crap even more on Chikorita's viability as a starter.
What's sad is I think you're right. Oh and uh I love that PFP. Just saying.
As for the Misdreavus/Gengar debate, there's 2 things no one has brought up yet.
1. Misdreavus, if I can recall, was a version exclusive...in both the originals and the remakes =w=
2. Ghost-Types weren't meant for brute force back in the day. In fact, in Gen 2, Shadow Ball was the only Ghost-Type attack with any sort of Base Power. In Gen 1, none of them had a base power, period.
Nope! Misdreavus only became a version exclusive in DP. Back in Gen 2 (and in their remakes), you can get it any version of the Johto saga.
Though if it was version-exclusive, I must admit I'm not sure what it has to do with giving it to a gym leader.
Lick existed in Gen 1. But besides that nitpick, not sure how brute force comes into it.
Alola Region Map Scaling: I don't think the problem is with the drawn map, the problem is with the region itself. They drew everyone each island had on the drawn map because each island is just that small. The only mystery about the map wasn't the scaling place-to-place but what the island order would be, what those far off buildings or locations might be used for, and in what way would be travel around the island and if we'll backtrack. But once you know that the map loses that mystery appeal to it and just becomes a cool drawing of the region.
Looking at other maps, there are plenty of cities and towns drawn pretty much one-to-one. It was only the routes that were either expanded to give distance between them or the "big" cities such as Castelia City in Unova or Lumiose City in Kalos where the map drawing is ambiguous. And there's reason for that, because they made Castelia City and Lumiose City feel big by filling it out with plenty of building you can't/your character has no interest in entering. Alola has no such location, and since its split into islands they isn't much of a way to expand distances unlike they were drawing one giant landmass.
I think they do need to add something to Detect to not only increase its PP to 10 (max 16) but so that there's a reason to use Detect over Protect for those Pokemon who can get it. Maybe we can combine your second issue with this: if a Pokemon using Detect is targeted by an opponent, not only will this Pokemon block the attack but for as long the Pokemon remains on the field that move will miss this Pokemon. Basically it first blocks the move in order to learn how to dodge it dodge it later.
Now Gen VII gave maybe a hint of an idea of having dialogue choices having a Telltale/Bioware affect, except despite how many times you can act like a jerk to Hau, Lillie, and Kukui they always treat you the same. If they had the character act more friendlier or rivalry that would justify it a little bit, but no you're all still best buds in the end.
Feared Pokemon: I've never had a problem with Kingdra, but I have another Water-type I have an issue with: Milotic. Now admittedly this was more due to a bad experience when I wasn't that good of a player: in RSE there's a female Ace Trainer named Jennifer on Route 120 with a sole Milotic. My best trained Pokemon was Blaziken, so you can imagine how that battle went. It came down to my Wobbufett having to use Destiny Bond to take it down. She almost team wiped me. After that I don't recall having problems with Milotics, don't remember having an issue with Wallace's or Lusamine's. But due to a lone one almost wiping me after having just won a Badge I get a bit of a twitch whenever one appears. Though I got my revenge eventually, Jennifer's Milotic felt the full force of my Mega Sceptile in Alpha Sapphire... I'M NOT BITTER! *eye twitch*
Misdreavus Exclusive: Actually, in the original Gen II Misdreavus did have a sort of exclusiveness to it: you could only catch it in Mt. Silver (at night, and its a low encounter rate). Yes, the LAST LOCATION in the game.
Gym Issues: Hey, if you think Morty was bad remember in the original DP that Volkner had to use an Ambipom and Octillery on his team and Flint had to use a Steelix, Drifblim (which only knew Will-O-Wisp as its Fire-type move), and Lopunny. Like, did they make the Pokemon first and then chose the Gym Leader/Elite Four types? Like you'd think they would specifically figure out at least the Type Specialists they'd want to have and then make enough Pokemon of that Type for them to have...
Looking at other maps, there are plenty of cities and towns drawn pretty much one-to-one. It was only the routes that were either expanded to give distance between them or the "big" cities such as Castelia City in Unova or Lumiose City in Kalos where the map drawing is ambiguous. And there's reason for that, because they made Castelia City and Lumiose City feel big by filling it out with plenty of building you can't/your character has no interest in entering. Alola has no such location, and since its split into islands they isn't much of a way to expand distances unlike they were drawing one giant landmass.
Hmm, maybe the problem here has to do with Detect being a Gen II move and them changing their tune but never going back to "correct" Detect. The original logic here is that, since Protect and Detect are essentially the same, they don't want to give a Pokemon that can learn Detect twice the amount of Protect to use. But, as I said, this was back in Gen II. Later on they probably realize players wouldn't want to give up two move slots for Protect variants, especially if there's a superior Protect variant available.
I think they do need to add something to Detect to not only increase its PP to 10 (max 16) but so that there's a reason to use Detect over Protect for those Pokemon who can get it. Maybe we can combine your second issue with this: if a Pokemon using Detect is targeted by an opponent, not only will this Pokemon block the attack but for as long the Pokemon remains on the field that move will miss this Pokemon. Basically it first blocks the move in order to learn how to dodge it dodge it later.
Ugh, I wish if the answer didn't matter they wouldn't do it. Like I guess it's fun to see an alternate response but if the same result save me the time and get to the battle (a few times due to the person giving the options assumes you're kidding if you choose the "wrong" response, like whenever you say "yes" to the villain asking you to join them). The one of these which stands out the most is the "Ultimate Weapon's Button" which they did in TWO game. In XY, while if you chose the right button you were told it would turn off the Ultimate Weapon, Xerosic just turns the Ultimate Weapon on anyway. Then in USUM's RR Episode it had Lysandre doing it... but no matter what choice you make he says your wrong. Now while the second one you could just assume Lysandre is messing with you, the former there's no answer to aside wasting your time and being shown that no matter what Flare are going to activate the Ultimate Weapon you can't talk them out of it.
Now Gen VII gave maybe a hint of an idea of having dialogue choices having a Telltale/Bioware affect, except despite how many times you can act like a jerk to Hau, Lillie, and Kukui they always treat you the same. If they had the character act more friendlier or rivalry that would justify it a little bit, but no you're all still best buds in the end.
Not to mention you probably have stocked a good amount of Roto Loto items, notably the Roto Boost which increase Attack, Defense, Special Attack, Special Defense, and Speed by +1 each. That's how I won, I gave my Metagross one Roto Loto and it was taking Ultra Necrozma's attacks like a champ while it punched it to defeat (obviously healing it whenever its HP got low, something Necrozma can't do). I've also heard others just poisoning or burning it and stalling.
Feared Pokemon: I've never had a problem with Kingdra, but I have another Water-type I have an issue with: Milotic. Now admittedly this was more due to a bad experience when I wasn't that good of a player: in RSE there's a female Ace Trainer named Jennifer on Route 120 with a sole Milotic. My best trained Pokemon was Blaziken, so you can imagine how that battle went. It came down to my Wobbufett having to use Destiny Bond to take it down. She almost team wiped me. After that I don't recall having problems with Milotics, don't remember having an issue with Wallace's or Lusamine's. But due to a lone one almost wiping me after having just won a Badge I get a bit of a twitch whenever one appears. Though I got my revenge eventually, Jennifer's Milotic felt the full force of my Mega Sceptile in Alpha Sapphire... I'M NOT BITTER! *eye twitch*
Misdreavus Exclusive: Actually, in the original Gen II Misdreavus did have a sort of exclusiveness to it: you could only catch it in Mt. Silver (at night, and its a low encounter rate). Yes, the LAST LOCATION in the game.
Gym Issues: Hey, if you think Morty was bad remember in the original DP that Volkner had to use an Ambipom and Octillery on his team and Flint had to use a Steelix, Drifblim (which only knew Will-O-Wisp as its Fire-type move), and Lopunny. Like, did they make the Pokemon first and then chose the Gym Leader/Elite Four types? Like you'd think they would specifically figure out at least the Type Specialists they'd want to have and then make enough Pokemon of that Type for them to have...
It sounds like there’s a misunderstanding about what he meant by one-to-one. The player character is, for the first time, proportional to the stuff around in their environment. And that really brings out how small a place with just a couple of buildings is. It was already an issue in past games, but in those it was easier to feel that what you were seeing on screen was a representation of an actually bigger (more believable/legitimate) version of that area — in other words, the real version of it — but when everything’s to scale it’s hard not to see the absurdly small areas in front of you as all there is. It’s easily, by a massive amount, the biggest problem the games have now, and the developers seem to be oblivious to it.
I still can’t believe they put one house in Hau’oli Outskirts, as if the previous starting towns weren’t enough to test people’s immersion.
I still can’t believe they put one house in Hau’oli Outskirts, as if the previous starting towns weren’t enough to test people’s immersion.
And the "Keep using the trade Onix" crowd is chopped liver?
Of course Gengar is also made harder in the remakes thanks to Levitate. You can't hurt it with Ground moves. Still, something like Golbat or Raticate with Bite can make short work of Gengar's insubstantial Defense. (almost like it's a ghost or something!)
Though speaking from the Transformers fandom, it seems most fandoms have the "ruined forever" lever almost permanently pulled. And the "ruining my childhood" lever too.
Outside of Gen 4, people tend to not use version exclusives on their teams, like Gym Leaders. Or they'll use both versions at the same time, like Bugsy does in those games with the two cocoons, or Marshal and Caitlin in the Unova games, among others. As for Lick...I forgot about that lol
Something that annoys me to no end is the fact that you can only buy one lemonade at a time from a vending machine. I get bored of mashing the a button after the second lemonade. Lemonades are otherwise very nice mid-game healing items when super potions just don't cut it anymore, but I'm rarely bothered to get them because it takes needlessly long.
Something similar is true for the fishing, and to a lesser extend, headbutt mechanics. Fishing has never been intuitive, but Sun and Moon managed to make it even worse. Just every single thing about SM fishing makes you waste time for no reason. First, you need to find a specific spot before the game allows you to throw out your rod. I guess this has to do with the fact that SM don't really have a tile based world anymore. If so, fair enough, but otherwise the old system was fine. Then, you have to pray that you will actually catch something. More often than not the game tells you that you didn't get anything. I had this happen up to six or seven times in a row, wasting my time for absolutely no reason at all. Often when you finally do get the exclamation mark, all you reel in is an item. 'Cathing' something doesn't mean that you actually get an encounter.
All these problems are made worse by the 1% encounter rates of anything actually interesting, like feebas or dhelmise. In order to get a slightly better chance of encountering these pokemon, you have to fish in rippling spots. Of course the only thing this 'feature' adds is more time wasted, because you have to run back and forth between the rippling spot and a nearby house to reset the bubbles. Sometimes you have to even exit and reenter the route.
The whole thing feels like an EA meme. I can already see Gamefreak come out and say that 'they want us to feel pride and accomplishment after finally catching these rare pokemon'. But instead of an intuitive new fishing mechanic, this is accomplished by making the pokemon artificially rare and aggravating to catch.
I think there is a kind of elegance in the repetitiveness of grinding sometimes. Usually I like grinding because it clears my head for a moment. However, fishing mechanics in SM are just annoying. And unlike grinding, you don't see progress. You get the rare pokemon or you don't, it's like gambling. I don't mind spending time on grinding, but don't waste my time either.
Something similar is true for the fishing, and to a lesser extend, headbutt mechanics. Fishing has never been intuitive, but Sun and Moon managed to make it even worse. Just every single thing about SM fishing makes you waste time for no reason. First, you need to find a specific spot before the game allows you to throw out your rod. I guess this has to do with the fact that SM don't really have a tile based world anymore. If so, fair enough, but otherwise the old system was fine. Then, you have to pray that you will actually catch something. More often than not the game tells you that you didn't get anything. I had this happen up to six or seven times in a row, wasting my time for absolutely no reason at all. Often when you finally do get the exclamation mark, all you reel in is an item. 'Cathing' something doesn't mean that you actually get an encounter.
All these problems are made worse by the 1% encounter rates of anything actually interesting, like feebas or dhelmise. In order to get a slightly better chance of encountering these pokemon, you have to fish in rippling spots. Of course the only thing this 'feature' adds is more time wasted, because you have to run back and forth between the rippling spot and a nearby house to reset the bubbles. Sometimes you have to even exit and reenter the route.
The whole thing feels like an EA meme. I can already see Gamefreak come out and say that 'they want us to feel pride and accomplishment after finally catching these rare pokemon'. But instead of an intuitive new fishing mechanic, this is accomplished by making the pokemon artificially rare and aggravating to catch.
I think there is a kind of elegance in the repetitiveness of grinding sometimes. Usually I like grinding because it clears my head for a moment. However, fishing mechanics in SM are just annoying. And unlike grinding, you don't see progress. You get the rare pokemon or you don't, it's like gambling. I don't mind spending time on grinding, but don't waste my time either.
While it happened for the wrong reasons in Volkner's and Flint's cases, doesn't this actually go more into the direction people seem to want out of boss battles? That is, the leaders not only having Pokemon of the type they specialize in, but a bit of coverage, support etc. I understand that this wasn't your main point, but it feels like Volkner/Flint could serve more as positive examples for solving the problem of there not being enough different Pokemon for a type specialist in the regional Pokedex than a negative one.
I agree with this. It's kind of like Aaron's ace being a Drapion as well - the problem is when they have more Pokemon on their team that aren't their specialized type than that are.